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Singer 20U Industrial Sewing Machine Tutorial 

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How to use the Singer 20U industrial sewing machine - its use and maintenance - half hour video. Information includes basic sewing, bobbin winding, mechanical changes for a zigzag stitch, buttonholes, oiling the machine and care. Tutorial is by Alice Berry aliceberry.com/ MORE information below!
SIZE NEEDLE - ONLY use Singer Industrial needles, they have a groove in the front. NOT "universal" or tabletop sewing machine needles.
MODEL - Singer 20U from the 1950s or so. I have no information more specific than that.
8/29/2015 HEY HATERS, this is a free tutorial video for an internal arts and technology makerspace, so like it or do not watch it. I'm not here to teach you for free, hold a class for free or answer your questions for free. This is not "Yahoo! Answers." What's in the video is here for your benefit as provided by a fashion expert who used the machine for decades and is intended as a complement to an in person class, the benefits of which video you are getting for free. Additionally, a specific person has been reported repeatedly for trolling this comment thread, bashing and making comments about Ms. Berry which are abusive; all of which have been reported to RU-vid.

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7 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 145   
@virginieguillemette8441
@virginieguillemette8441 Год назад
I inherited a Singer 20U from my mother, who was a professional seamstress all her life, when she passed away 15 years ago. I learned to sew as a young girl on this machine, and when I got older and had to get my own basic home sewing machine, it felt so slow and flimsy compared to using this, lol. When she passed away, she was living in Florida; I was living across the continent in Las Vegas, but thought I might be moving back to Florida soon, so I put it, along with countless bins and boxes of threads, notions, fabrics, and other accessories in a storage unit. Things didn't end up as I had predicted, and I ended up staying in Vegas for 15 years, before moving back east to North Carolina, and finally making it down to Florida to clean out the storage unit. I had to rent a truck to haul this bad boy and all the other bits up to NC, but I am glad I did. I now have a lot of cleaning and restoring to do, as I'm sure 15 years collecting dust in the humidity and humidity of Florida have probably not been good for this machine. Despite this, it actually looks like it has held up ok. I ran across this video as I was researching the use and care of this very particular machine before starting to clean it up. I'm assuming I will probably need to have it serviced before I can start using it again. My model does not have the bobbin threader on the top, however. It's on the right side of the machine, but otherwise looks identical to this one. I believe she got hers in the early or mid 1970s. My mother kept a roof over our heads and put food on the table with this machine. I'm just a sometime hobbyist sewer who likes to be able to mend clothes or craft some curtains now and again, but I count myself lucky to have it. Thank you for posting this video!
@XavPaice
@XavPaice 7 лет назад
Just wanted to leave a quick thank you for this. Exactly what I needed, really appreciate someone who knows that machine literally inside and out taking the time to explain it for those of us who are likely to get in front of one for the first time.
@fiddler2u
@fiddler2u 9 лет назад
I don't know if someone has mentioned this earlier but that big felt pad under the top cover (29:50 into the video) is the reservoir for the automatic oiling system. This felt pad should be liberally oiled and it will constantly feed oil to the main wear points that need to be lubricated all the time you are actually sewing. It's important.
@TheNanaweaver
@TheNanaweaver 4 года назад
neve knew this
@ZenaHerbert
@ZenaHerbert 6 лет назад
I bought A 20U in 1974, new, and it has served me brilliantly. Sews anything, from leather to lace. Returning to textiles after a lengthy break, I'd forgotten the buttonhole sequence so this was very helpful, that you.
@emilsantiz3816
@emilsantiz3816 2 года назад
A Master showing her Art and abilities using a vintage machine- She is simply AWESOME!!!!!! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and tricks to us beginners!!!!!!
@buildabearmovies09
@buildabearmovies09 3 года назад
I was given my nans 20u over the summer and its amazing! This video was super helpful!
@sharw5392
@sharw5392 7 лет назад
Thankyou for Sharing this Tutorial, I have a 1970/71 20u and your video has helped me understand my machine and to operate it properly.
@reneekennedy198
@reneekennedy198 6 лет назад
Just have a loan of this singer 20u and thank you for the lesson much appreciated
@danielhollingsworth3546
@danielhollingsworth3546 9 лет назад
At last, someone made a close-up and clear video. God bless you, it is excellent !
@nevillaramsaroop5151
@nevillaramsaroop5151 6 лет назад
Am getting a slack Stitch a the bottom n try but not getting it what do i do to fix it
@documetricsinc.6135
@documetricsinc.6135 3 года назад
@@nevillaramsaroop5151 you need to tighten the top tension to get rid of the loop.
@kennethcolbert2170
@kennethcolbert2170 11 лет назад
Very nice video I have the Singer 20U-109 for about a year now.I love it my wife does not sew but I love to make frame bags for bicycles and stuff for the house.It took me a while to learn how to use this machine one thing I did was I went to a smaller pulley on the motor that alone let me use the 20U-109.With out getting my fingers hurt lol.Once again thanks for this video.
@margaretwangui8951
@margaretwangui8951 4 года назад
Thank you. I bought a 20U machine recently. I appreciate for the tutorial and I will be contacting you for more as we proceed.
@CiaconnaUK
@CiaconnaUK 6 лет назад
thanks so much for taking the time to make and share this video. it helped me so much and was really clear.
@venmon8096
@venmon8096 4 месяца назад
I am a very new seemstress.. my teacher sold me this 20u machine.. to wish i feel bless and highly favour.. its my first time around it, seeing thatbi was using a home heavy duty machine for throughout my class.. I have been sitting around it for 2 days now.. trying to thread it correctly and placing the babin correct to start sewing.. I am stucked
@thejeannelson
@thejeannelson 9 лет назад
I always lifted my head toward the back to change my bobbin. so easy.
@23muddigger
@23muddigger 11 лет назад
Awesome!! Your video was way more helpful than the manual!!!
@sallynuttall
@sallynuttall 7 лет назад
Thank you very much for the video- really appreciated by someone who is looking for one of these machines.
@maxshedcustomrecreation6948
@maxshedcustomrecreation6948 5 лет назад
If it can help, we made precises threading videos. Superior threading : - first part ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-k3r4hGGlY_k.html - second part ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZdSQFeL-9sU.html Bobbin threading : - first part ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iFuLtFxwEqY.html - second part ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yMh6-8j7yWA.html Enjoy your Sewing with the legendary 20u ;-)
@FrancoisLabelle-yf8tj
@FrancoisLabelle-yf8tj 5 лет назад
The button mode for stitches is not used correctly in the video, you should not have to release the presser foot after you started, the point of the 3 options on the button mode knob is to provide consistency of stitch width and repeatability... the centre mode is to stitch the wide top and bottom zig-zag stitch going to the end of the two smaller zig-zag stitches going down, the left is to stitch the narrow stitch left of the buttonhole, the right is to stitch the right side...so you need the 3 button modes to do button stitch correctly!! Hope it's clear!!
@thejeannelson
@thejeannelson 9 лет назад
The bobbin case for the 20U is deeper than the bobbin cases for regular Singer machines
@bellepoupee61
@bellepoupee61 9 лет назад
Thank you so much for this tutorial, I just got the bargain of the century and you just show me how to use my brand new/old machine :D, have a good day! Merci. Chrisitne
@twilateetaylor9740
@twilateetaylor9740 2 года назад
This was incredibly helpful! Thank you so much for posting this!
@estherhdz4
@estherhdz4 11 лет назад
I've been having my singer 20u for about 12 years and never knew i can do zigzag and buttonholes. Thank you for this tutorial!! Maybe you can make a tutorial on how to use all of the different foots that are available for this machine and what they are for. thanks!
@yuribolognini
@yuribolognini 4 года назад
In 12 years you never touched that lever? What was it supposed to do? Break needles? Hahaha don't be mad, it's just a joke.
@belloafeez1911
@belloafeez1911 5 месяцев назад
I love this machine
@hannahellis4549
@hannahellis4549 5 лет назад
Just got one of these and hadn’t a clue so thank you very much!!
@rojamanepalli3068
@rojamanepalli3068 2 года назад
Video was good....and can we do both zigzag and embroidery in a single machine?? If yes pls suggest the machines with name and price...
@angambisyosangadventurera
@angambisyosangadventurera 2 месяца назад
I just bought mine ❤
@withthebrowns
@withthebrowns 26 дней назад
Thank you for sharing this information...
@enero7171
@enero7171 Год назад
Hi , thank you for the video☺Could you help me?...I have one machine, is the same machine Singer 20 U- 13. And my problem is that the bar of the neel can't go up and either go down...could you please explain me what to do?
@wwtbob
@wwtbob 5 лет назад
Does anyone else know about how the 20U was designed to be lubricated...THAT BIG PAD AT THE TOP OF THE REAR, MAIN SHAFT NEEDS TO BE KEPT WET WITH OIL!!! CAN I MAKE THESE LETTERS ANY B I G G E R !!!
@sugarlee7648
@sugarlee7648 3 года назад
Thank you for commenting. I haven’t used mine in over ten years and had forgotten about oil. One drop?
@florencebanda9379
@florencebanda9379 4 года назад
Thank you for the video and I wanted to find out what I can do if the machine is skipping stitches
@carrielist9406
@carrielist9406 3 года назад
It might be the needle. It has a different needle length than a lot of machines. Dp 5
@umzionline
@umzionline 3 года назад
And finally, I have a singer 20u. Having problems with the skipped stitches while freehand embroidery. I have been using Dbx1 needle all this time with a foot. What needle size is meant to be with this machine?
@mavwaimuteba6292
@mavwaimuteba6292 2 года назад
This video is super helpful, thanks a lot.
@wjayxela9090
@wjayxela9090 7 лет назад
I'm picking one up tomorrow and can't wait! THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!!!!!
@andriashevetz2511
@andriashevetz2511 7 месяцев назад
How do I drop the feed dogs on my 20u73 singer? I can't seem to loosen the tension on my machine and I want to do free motion sewing. Please Help 😮
@user-ed8so6yw8t
@user-ed8so6yw8t 5 месяцев назад
Just want let you know how appreciative I am of this awesome 👌🏽 service I shall save this to ho back to for learning more, God bless and keep you 🙏🏽 until , I shall subscribe to your channel ❤❤❤❤❤❤🫶🏾🫶🏾🫶🏾🫶🏾✅️🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🙋🏽
@dondavis6997
@dondavis6997 9 месяцев назад
Very nice machine
@andriashevetz2511
@andriashevetz2511 5 месяцев назад
Does the Singer 20U73 industrial use a flat back needle or a round shank?
@xiomarabarrios2351
@xiomarabarrios2351 2 года назад
Hola muy bueno excelente pero no entiendo el ingles xf en español tengo una. Igual y me está presentando dificulta para cocer abajo no hace sixsa revienta hilo parte aguja y tiene un ruido muy fuerte Es la que me da ingresos doy de la 3ra edad xf gracias desde vzla
@rosebrad9116
@rosebrad9116 5 месяцев назад
Can the zigzag plate be used for straight stitches as well.
@wwtbob
@wwtbob 5 лет назад
Fiddler...Thanks for backing me up ... there are too many semi-experts out there who haven't got a CLUE!
@yoman5136
@yoman5136 10 лет назад
Way cool my ex just gave me the one I bought her 25 years ago. It has very few hours on it and took it down for a complete clean and oiling. Any source for downloading owner's Manuals for my machine. It's a 20U and was made in Japan not China. Thanks
@404momii
@404momii 5 лет назад
www.singerco.com/uploads/download/16da5bf861da92b5b2cc711fc867e0b769735d2b.pdf
@jerrykovis5417
@jerrykovis5417 2 года назад
Found one these locally for $700. It’s in amazing shape. Curious if that’s a good price. Comes with table, lamp, knee control. Thanks
@jeffccr3620
@jeffccr3620 Год назад
Nice older machine
@404momii
@404momii 5 лет назад
***Help with thread problem*** Thread is gathering at the bottom while I stitch. Maybe I need to adjust the tension on the bobbin?
@mkrizsalee
@mkrizsalee 3 года назад
SINGER INDUSTRIAL 20u, I had a crash, needle broke in the process, ended up with needle bar being off center, can only use zigzag plate now for straight stitch & zig zag. VERY FRUSTRATING. What to do?
@casenancy33
@casenancy33 3 года назад
I find it to be a great machine, but I want to be sure how large a needle and how big a thread she can take.
@maxshedcustomrecreation6948
@maxshedcustomrecreation6948 5 лет назад
The Singer 20u can do a perfect large zigzag : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4R30zqlGzMg.html But it is also often used for free motion embroidery : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-S36urqhLIX8.html Sorry for the poor practicing level, we are not used to do free motion ;-)
@stevencsawyerss
@stevencsawyerss 8 лет назад
Thank you very much for this video, I have a machine like this. It belonged to my mom before she passed away, could you tell me what kind of oil to use. I know she paid alot for it when it was new, what does a good used one sell for?
@maryjozendejas1934
@maryjozendejas1934 3 года назад
Can you cover tension on the Singer 20-33
@rosaolvera7705
@rosaolvera7705 10 месяцев назад
Mi maquina me la movieron y la dejaron en modo recta. Como le muevo para volverla de nuvo a zig zag me urge 🤷
@rhodamasembemukonde4589
@rhodamasembemukonde4589 2 года назад
How can I repair stuck needle bar
@fatimamangahas9323
@fatimamangahas9323 3 года назад
We have this singer 20u machine. My parents bought 2nd hand in the 90s i think. but the thing is, it was already converted to embroidery and the parts for sewing were gone. My parents were already retired embroiderers and I am a sewing enthusiast. Is there any way I can convert this back to sewing function? I've asked some repairmen around but they can't do it. Thanks.
@TheNanaweaver
@TheNanaweaver 4 года назад
Can you tell me what the black knob is in the front of the machine. I dont have no clue what it does.
@level2456
@level2456 4 года назад
Hello. Thanks for the video. Can i zig zag soft fabric with this machine? It doesn't seem to work for me 😕
@junitiger
@junitiger 8 лет назад
Good morning to all. I have a 23u22, Do my machine is a walking foot machine? Can I do canvas works and leather upholstery jobs? Thank you for the information and lots of blessing to all of you.
@olaniyioloyede252
@olaniyioloyede252 2 года назад
Please this 20u will cost how much now
@ssergeant9682
@ssergeant9682 4 года назад
my grandson just found one of these and gave it to me. it says 20-33. is that the same? I has the motor etc and the table but the table does not have legs so it's not assembled. I'm not sure how to approach this machine but would very much like to use it. can you offer any advice?
@lorraineperry7340
@lorraineperry7340 7 лет назад
I have a 20 U singer machine and I am needing to chain my belt, any suggestions? Thank you.
@antongrad
@antongrad 9 лет назад
Hello... Nice sewing machine, i have the exact one...question : can i sew leather if the foot is changed to a rolled one (wheeled one)? Thanks a lot
@Witchofedentrail
@Witchofedentrail 2 года назад
Does anyone have tips on how to troubleshoot skipped stitches? I bought this machine from my old employer. It was recently serviced but the servicer changed it to the zig zag setting. I just changed it back to normal straight stitch and now it’s skipped and I can’t seem to fix it. :(
@juantorresrodriguez3353
@juantorresrodriguez3353 Год назад
Cambiale y colocale bien la aguja nueva q recomienda el manual
@africanhistory
@africanhistory 10 лет назад
she needs a servo motor, thats why she struggles to go slow, she also forgot to move fly wheel you need to release clutch by slightly pressing the foot control
@sharleneanthony3218
@sharleneanthony3218 9 лет назад
how do you control the stitch speed with the foot pedal? if yo press it in certain places does it do different things...i.e toes forward on pedal makes machine fast straight stitch or heel on pedal slower stitch speed. i hope i am being clear
@montero0987
@montero0987 9 лет назад
its a clutch motor..toes on the pedal makes it run and heels on the pedal acts as brakes..motor is continiously running btw.dont worry about the clutch lining wearing away , those are just round corks which doesnt cost much.My pack of Marlboros costs more.
@sharleneanthony3218
@sharleneanthony3218 9 лет назад
Oh right....okay I see Was thinking of getting one Thank you for getting back to me...eeallly appreciate it #thumbsUp
@montero0987
@montero0987 9 лет назад
you are welcome ma'am.
@belloafeez1911
@belloafeez1911 5 месяцев назад
This singer machine is not for sewing,I use it to design cloth in my country. ❤
@TheNanaweaver
@TheNanaweaver 8 лет назад
I have this machine, the knob on the side is so tight, can you tell me how to loosen it, I can't turn it very good to help bring up the needed.
@shellielewis8387
@shellielewis8387 8 лет назад
+Joyce Weaver Lightly hold down the pedal to release the clutch and then turn the knob. It is like a car, it has to be in gear.
@boxingforfitness1221
@boxingforfitness1221 4 года назад
Can I sew thick fabric with this? Can a sew a canvas awning with this?
@rosaolvera7705
@rosaolvera7705 10 месяцев назад
El tornillo de abajo de la tencion no lo consigo
@Romidear
@Romidear 8 лет назад
Where can I buy this kind of sewing machine????????? Please help, I want one, but, I would like to find the best price, could you please help me?
@joycechardon3704
@joycechardon3704 10 лет назад
For some months now, i have this problem with my 20u . Bought it on fairly used but couldn't make a complete dress without the threads(normal) getting cut off, so decided to use hard threads and now the problem is that the sewing under skips..so confused ..how do i go about it. Please can someone help me out?
@montero0987
@montero0987 9 лет назад
its just timing problem.Have somebody adjust it for you , and the tensions as well...those are hardy machines , japan if not US made..Mine got submerged during the Ondoy floods , and after pressure washing it , had it dry thoroughly it was up and running as if nothing happened.
@rutholeneshannon9756
@rutholeneshannon9756 11 лет назад
Fantastic and helpful. Thank You
@timphelix5302
@timphelix5302 3 года назад
Would this machine do thick leather 10-12 oz?
@niole2113
@niole2113 9 лет назад
Please use more light and show the details so that they actually show. One of the main reasons I watched this is to see how to thread it, how to put bobbin in case, which way the bobbin turns-- but that part was obscured. How does the needle go in? How is it threaded? So frustrating! The machine looks awesomely zippy though.
@anazechner5833
@anazechner5833 9 лет назад
can you do free motion embroidery with this machine? do I need to change anything else besides the feed dogs and obviously remove the presser foot? Please somebody help. Thank you
@leecopp8012
@leecopp8012 9 лет назад
+Cecilia Alva .. There are a couple options - you could try a hopping foot for a high shank domestic machine like a Necchi . Also you could just set the stitch length to zero, remove the foot and use an embroidery hoop. Of course you want to be able to control the speed to the lower end of the speed range.
@AngieGarcia-sd5ew
@AngieGarcia-sd5ew 7 лет назад
esta máquina es zigzag?
@ifyazuakolam9107
@ifyazuakolam9107 4 года назад
How do you use an elastic thread on this machine....I tried mine and the thread keeps breaking from the bobbin.
@jude317
@jude317 4 года назад
Hope u know it is not a regular sewing machine
@geraldspears7418
@geraldspears7418 Год назад
Can you slow down sewing. I'm new at this
@yadhiramack3464
@yadhiramack3464 8 лет назад
does anyone know if this machine is similar to the cones CN2053r which is also zigzag and straight stitch... bought it used and looking for bobbin case and bobbins.... manual no good unless you can read chinese..
@shellielewis8387
@shellielewis8387 8 лет назад
+Yadhira Mack Try asking the staff at a shop that does repair and resale of machines, they know the most.
@simonethomas4888
@simonethomas4888 3 года назад
How can i slow down the speed of this machine?
@user-ti3ec9im8n
@user-ti3ec9im8n 6 месяцев назад
Tak apa insyaalah terbaik sekali okey sekali ameeen ya rabbal alamin terbaik sekali okey 😢😮😮😅😅😊😊
@alsanchez9166
@alsanchez9166 2 года назад
What is the right niddle number?
@TheNanaweaver
@TheNanaweaver 4 года назад
I am having problems turning the fly wheel can someone tell me how to loosen> Sometimes I can't pull threads out even needle highest position or with foot up
@annakingsley1728
@annakingsley1728 4 года назад
Joyce Weaver turn on machine, depress treadle ever so slightly but not so much as to make machine go, to release clutch. This should loosen up tightness allowing you to pull thread.
@julienchikasa4679
@julienchikasa4679 7 лет назад
I need to buy some singer machine and need help
@dawnklauman1175
@dawnklauman1175 4 года назад
I have one of these machines but have no idea where to purchase the needles for it. I would really like a listing of the needles including what they are for and where to purchase them.
@kennethcolbert2921
@kennethcolbert2921 4 года назад
Go to www.singeronline.com/consew.html they have the needles you need I have this sewing machine too and this is where I get my needles from.
@banu7201
@banu7201 Год назад
Available in India
@mariavalenciano8070
@mariavalenciano8070 3 года назад
How were you able to lower the teeth for the quilt? I am using a singer similar to you with the model 20U.
@teresabaptie7143
@teresabaptie7143 3 года назад
I keep buying the wrong bobbin cases and they are too deep ?please help thanks
@rutholeneshannon9756
@rutholeneshannon9756 11 лет назад
Watched on my tablet while oiling and cleaning my 20u. What exact model 20U is in the video?
@roxannedavis3045
@roxannedavis3045 10 лет назад
Hi: So my understanding is that to get a zigzag stitch, you change the feed dogs, the presser foot and change the stitch width. To do a straight stitch just leave the stitch length to 0...is this correct?
@ARTG33K74
@ARTG33K74 10 лет назад
Yes, that is correct.
@Briooiuou
@Briooiuou 8 лет назад
+Roxanne Davis or rather, I believe you keep the stitch width to 0 ;)
@annabellezuniga3422
@annabellezuniga3422 6 лет назад
Does anyone know how to make this machine adapt to sew a twin needle stitch, Ive read in places that it can but I just don't know how. Im pretty sure the regular home swing twin needles won't work with it.
@juantorresrodriguez3353
@juantorresrodriguez3353 Год назад
No se puede con aguja melliza
@haydeebravo3552
@haydeebravo3552 Год назад
Mi máquina me soltó el pedal
@dmmdmm5435
@dmmdmm5435 3 года назад
I can't wait till you get a servo motor for that singer, that'll be a vast improvement in speed your speed control.
@TalkingdrumSpeaks
@TalkingdrumSpeaks 4 года назад
I need a 20U machine
@user-fx2oe2hu5w
@user-fx2oe2hu5w 5 месяцев назад
Machine ini jahitan sulaman cantik okey 😢😮😮😅😅😅😊😊😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊
@anamacias9842
@anamacias9842 8 лет назад
quiero comprar 2 maquinasm una filetadora d 5 hilos y plana o lo 20u
@onyinyestella9560
@onyinyestella9560 7 лет назад
Can I use this for a stretch material?
@markupholsteryinteriorinbu6439
I like it
@sabashaikh6119
@sabashaikh6119 2 года назад
cost of machine?
@carolinamendezalvarado2896
@carolinamendezalvarado2896 7 лет назад
cuál es el precio y donde la encuentro
@elizabethfrancois2344
@elizabethfrancois2344 5 лет назад
Hi am having trouble getting a zipper foot for that machine can you give me suggestion on where i could get or what kind i could use thanks again
@olindaedendield908
@olindaedendield908 9 месяцев назад
Change motor belt
@davidfrasco27
@davidfrasco27 2 года назад
I have one for sell very good condition in Anaheim ca
@mollybaross
@mollybaross 10 лет назад
Does she ever show how to thread the machine??? That's why I'm watching this video and I don't think she ever explains the direction of threading the machine!!
@ARTG33K74
@ARTG33K74 10 лет назад
Pause at 6:42": that shows the threading. Pretty much like any other sewing machine, nothing special. ☺
@mollybaross
@mollybaross 10 лет назад
I wanted to see the exact threading of the top thread after it passes through the tension control.
@johntripp2028
@johntripp2028 3 года назад
What size needle is used in the 20 U 13
@eunicecardoza8632
@eunicecardoza8632 2 года назад
Where can I get parts for this machine?
@eunicecardoza8632
@eunicecardoza8632 2 года назад
Got one of this machine but it is missing a part for threading the hook after going through the tension but I don’t know the name
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