Sir Thomas More and Martyrdom 

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I love More's quote just before he is beheaded " I die the King's good servant, but God's first".

As a lawyer and a Catholic, I've always found More fascinating. Inspiring history presented in Dr Starkey's compelling style. Always a pleasure.

Listening to David starkey helps me lots with my biopilar disorder keeps me carm and seem to be able to connect with events David teaches us in. I thank you very much new member to your club 🇬🇧💙

Such a luxury & a rarity - in these present days - to listen to the informed perspectives of Dr Starkey - beautifully orated - accessible intelligent historic accounts about the heritage & history of our country - wonderful. Clearly a case where "wokery" worked in the public's favour. Love that latter irony!

Buckingham faced the axe, Wolsey faced the axe, Fisher faced the axe, More faced the axe, Cromwell faced the axe, Norfolk and son faced the axe - his son, Surrey, died; he, Norfolk, lived because Henry VIII predeceased him. Wolsey and Cromwell never ceased to be the King's creatures. Buckingham, Norfolk and son were self-interested noblemen who conceivably threatened the King's position. If you must die at the hands of the King, better to die for a higher purpose, like Fisher, More, and also Becket. Your life can be taken from you, your morality never can be but of you own choosing.

I can think of no greater pleasure than seeing a new David Starkey video to enjoy on a Friday night after a tiring week at work. I shall have a glass of wine or two and enjoy. Thank you David xXX

I still enjoy watching A Man for All Seasons, with Paul Scofield as More and Robert Shaw as Henry.

What a fine talk Dr Starkey. What an absolutely gripping history we have. This Tudor period has every second filled with threat, intrigue and political manoeuvring....what a page turner!

Brilliant! I've always liked More because he educated his daughters, and female wards, to the same level as his sons. I like that in a man. Thanks, Dr. Starkey.

When I was a boy here in Germany, like many other youths, I was a member of the KJG ( Catholic youth). It wasn't very religious though but Thomas Moore (Thomas Morus for us) was it's patron saint. We were never told anything about the man. Now I know. Thank you.

Sir Thomas More will always have my respect . A man with absolutely integrity Principles and Honor. I’m sure you are in a place where you are respect value & love . Thanks for you videos they are very much appreciate . Greetings from California. 💕

I think if David had been a historical consultant on A Man For All Seasons he would have made it an even greater film.🎥🎬😂

Saint Thomas More. Thank you for sharing.

I didn't realise Henry had known More since childhood. Well that certainly explains why he relied on his advice so much. Until More started to not do what Henry wanted. No wonder he was so inspired by Beckett.

I’ve always loved this from A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS: “When a man takes an oath, Meg, he's holding his own self in his own hands. Like water (he cups his hands) and if he opens his fingers then, he needn't hope to find himself again. Some men aren't capable of this, but I'd be loathe to think your father one of them.” Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons

Dr Starkey reveals More's tragic dilemmas with knowledge and sympathy. 40 worthwhile minutes on the net is rare.

When Michelangelo was crafting a statue of Pope Julius II, Julius offered this suggestion: "Put a sword there [in my statue's hands, rather than a scroll], for I know nothing of letters."

Henry had almost a pathological way of disposing of people once they weren’t useful to him any longer. I wonder if he ever looked in the mirror and thought “God, what have I done?”. I always thought the death of Sir Thomas Moore to be the most tragic of all those Henry used and discarded of, or at least close to what he did to Catherine of Aragon. Who is with me? I’d love to discuss this in the comments.

Thank you Dr Starkey. You not only make me think - but make me rethink.

Once again, a superb video. Thank you, David.

Brilliant, totally absorbed by the talk great.

Wonderful having my brain exercised with my favorite historian

I found this moving. Thanks very much David.

Thanks Dr Starkey. You always bring a new perspective to these famous figures whose stories we've heard so often, ones that make them feel fresh again. And get us thinking. I'd certainly hate to be in the positions of either Thomas Beckett, John Fisher or Thomas More. Because what dilemmas they faced. Didn't Henry II make Beckett Archbishop of Canterbury, because he was so sure that his old friend would always side with him? But then, of course, Archbishop Beckett realises that he might be the king's friend, but his Master is actually God. And he can't serve two Masters. And then looking at the history between Henry VIII and Thomas More. It's not to be wondered at that such as especially egotistical and selfish monarch would assume that More would never say 'no' to him. But Henry find that there's a rival that he can't win against, and that's God. Thomas More believes that his king wants him to agree to something that goes against God's Will. And he can't do it. But imagine the fear of knowing that you stand to lose something, whichever way you turn. Say 'no' to the king and you're a traitor which means death. Say 'no' to God and you're a heretic, which means Hell and Damnation.

brilliant another DS video - Thank You so much.

Excellent Dr Starkey. By the way, I read the other day that "A Man For All Seasons" was John Wayne's favourite film.

As always an illuminating discussion.

Thank you David for an amazing video once again! Stay amazing.

A Man For All Seasons (Al Stewart) What if you reached the age of reason Only to find there was no reprieve Would you still be a man for all seasons? Or would you just have to leave We measure our days out In steps of uncertainty Not turning to see how we've come And peer down the highway From here to eternity And reach out for love on the run While the man for all seasons Is lost behind the sun Henry Plantagenet still looks for someone To bring good news in his hour of doubt While Thomas More waits in the Tower of London Watching the sands running out And measures the hours out From here to oblivion In actions that can't be undone A sailor through the darkness He scans the meridian And caught by the first rays of dawn The man for all seasons Is lost beneath the storm And I should know by now I should know by now I hear them call it out all around Oh, they go There's nothing to believe in Hear them, Just daydreams, deceiving They'll just let you down What if you reached the age of reason Only to find there was no reprieve Would you still be a man for all seasons? Or would you just disbelieve? We measure our gains out in luck and coincidence Lanterns to turn back the night And put our defeats down to chance or experience And try once again for the light Some wait for the waters of fortune to cover them Some just see the tides of ill chance running over them Some call on Jehovah Some cry out to Allah Some wait for the boats that still row to Valhalla Well, you should try to accept what the fates are unfolding While some say they're sure where the blame should be falling You look round for maybe a chance of forestalling Bot too soon its over and done And the man for all seasons Is lost behind the sun

Thank you so much for this! I am minded of Joseph Campbell's wonderful quote about the importance and influence of heroes: "We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us. The labyrinth is thoroughly known; we have only to follow the thread of the hero path. And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god. And where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves. And where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world."

Thank you for your fortitude!

Would absolutely love a dedicated video to Becket. Really enjoyed this exploration of Thomas More, probably my favourite of Henry’s Thomas servants!

Another great talk. Many thanks.

St Thomas More was "cancelled" by Henry . It's the same concept as is being currently applied to those who speak out the truth.

I'd love to hear you talk about Cardinal Newman.

I really like these deep-dives into specific people or aspects of your domain of expertise.

Dear Dr Starkey-Please forgive this intrusion upon your time. May I begin by saying how very much I enjoy your work.Your style is both erudite and entertaining, and I doff my cap to you sir. It always strikes me as odd that the ecclesiastic policy of King Henry VIII constitutes a complete denial of one of the primary articles of the Magna Carta, namely "that the English Church shall be free, and shall have its rights undiminished, and its liberties unimpaired". Very odd for a King as patriotic as the eighth Henry to so openly flout so vital an aspect of ancient law. If I may ask, what is your view.

Thank you!! Excellent insights to More's connections to Henry personally & politically. I could listen to you talk history all day.

I love your history talks -- informed, insightful, enlightening and endlessly rich.

LIKE. Even before the talk starts.

I enjoy so much these talks. Thank you, Dr. Starkey. Your expertise and fact-based insight keeps me coming back to listen.

Thankyou David for these wonderful history talks. I look forward to them so much. Please keep them going. Thankyou so much.

Another first rate video. These are surely the best TV programmes on history there has been. This is the real thing

Thank you Dr. Starkey.

Obviously More was relatively on the side of the law, people and tradition. And he wasn't alienated or marginalised. He was murdered by a criminal tyrant. He's rightly a saint.

David Starkey is such a great historian! I would like to watch more video lectures from other time periods of UK history.

I feel so lucky to have such an opportunity to listen to these wonderful and interesting talks. Thank you so much.

Interesting history I didn't know about one of my favorite saints, Thomas More.

Happy Feast day, Dr Starkey! Your knowledge is abundant and your gift of sharing a true treasure ❤❤❤ Please do a new video soon!

Yes, Thomas More suffered the agony of martyrdom. So did the "heretics", arrested on the orders of More. John Frith being an example of that.

I find More's dedication to his faith admiral. Both him and Fisher I believe earned their sainthood in the Roman Catholic Church

Great thanks for this, @David Starkey. Brilliant, historical talk on Sir Thomas More here Sir. I have subscribed. Thanks again, Patrick ✨🙏😊

Absolutely wonderful. History was difficult for me in school, because it was forced upon us to learn dates and the like. This really brings it to life. The pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are falling into place thanks to you. Greetings from New Zealand.

Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for this analysis and insight.

My high school was sir Thomas more high school. Catholic of course . Saw the portrait every day when I walked into school. Sparked the beginnings of my love of history

I like to drink beer before and during Mr Starkey's presentations. That way, when I watch again, it's like it's all new. Double value.👍

Excellent as usual. Thanks

Wonderful channel thankyou Dr David Starkey I could listen to you all day ❤️

This is great. love history, David Starkey is brilliant 💫

I greatly enjoy your Videos.

Thank you.

It is inspiring to think of Thomas More as a politician We today are so used to thinking of him in light of his sainthood But of course that way of thinking is hind-sighted When he was still living it was all about politics! It is hard to remember this in light of what our politics has become lately Our politicians adopt the latest fad without a qualm merely to get invited the right parties - while More stood by his principles and accepted condemnation and the block in order to serve God

Could you please do a video on St. John Fisher

fantastic speaker. i always loved listening to you and will always subscribe to any places where you speak

I'm so glad I found you. I shall be a binging!

i hope david that you had a good new year for 2022 i think this upload is one of your best so far no one i am sure would say that sir thomas more was not brave to go against harry but it is good to know that thomas is a patron saint for children and also for our parliament but our mps have not his good nature or his sense of right most of them dont or cant come close as sir thomas more thanks again for your upload see you soon stay well and safe yours avon leicestershire 2022

Love this starkey geezer giving a shout out to cuthbert tunstall!

Were I to have lived in that time I certainly would have been religious. Born in the '50s, though, I could not imagine how anyone could be. Thus, I struggle to understand so much of the past in the context of religion. Thank you, Dr. Starkey, for illuminating this in the case of More - a case I never felt I understood.

Hello Starkey i do enjoy your videos. Could you make a video about Jeanne D' Arc. Thank you

Keep em coming. Love them.

Excellent as usual.

Great video David love your channel

The Lord Chief Justice says: "if it's an Act of Parliament, it's good enough". Then Dr Starkey says: "a classic position of English Common Law". I hope David will forgive me, but an Act of Parliament is *Statute Law* - a very different animal from English Common Law, which derives from centuries of judicial precedent and basic humanist principles of natural justice - one could even call it "common sense". Indeed, Sir Thomas More could not have been condemned under English Common Law (which was eventually adopted by the United States and countless other jurisdictions around the World). It was *Statute Law* which sent him to his death. Aside from this, yet again a wonderfully insightful account. Many thanks.

What was the role of Moore in the ultimate martyrdom of Tyndale . After all you wouldn't want people reading the Bible in the common language would you ?

Really interesting and often revelatory in his field of study. Rarely so outside of it.

St Thomas died for the Church, it's dogma, doctrine and papal fatherhood. Because someone who disowns their own father is not a true son. We can also call him the resolute opponent of the Revolution. Because all politics is also belief. And all conflict theological.

If Sir Thomas More could speak, I wonder what legal case he would make of today's crisis. The unlimited exercise of Govt power against the most basic rights of the individual is something he knows well about.,

We disagree on many political things but I love your voice and its a shame your not on TV anymore

Thank

It is, as always, a pleasure to listen to Dr Starkey (presume that has not been rescinded) but shall once again begin my comment by suggesting Dr Starkey sit further away from the camera -- it would improve things greatly (see Peter Whittle's programme). Also, the line from the great play is: 'To do the right THING for the wrong reason.'

Perhaps the problem for Moore was the degree to which he was a good 'imitator of Jesus', or not. Am I not correct that Moore had no hesitation in sentencing human beings to be burned alive? If that is correct, where were his 'principles' in those instances? And it is not sufficient to state, "He was a man of his times"; because the 'model' for him was the same as it is for us today.

How about the "Truth", for truth will set you free! A coward will submit to lies and lives in in his own lies!

Shame you're not on the telly any more. I seem to see the girl parade on the BBC history now: Alice Roberts, the goth girl and somewhat dull Lucy Worsley.

It is doubtful that More said " the king's good servant, but God first" because More was very cautious not to antagonise the king's council, fearing that it could endanger his family (More's).

Brilliant

A democracy is an aristocracy or orators (Thomas Hobbes).

Dearest David . I’m so disappointed that you reply to members only . I’ve made this clear some months ago. Some of us cannot pay the required amount for membership and so on. Why not select a non members question once a fortnight? Or once a month? I just watched both movies relating to this subject. Becket, Burton was great but O’toole was sensational. And A man of all Seasons. Scofield sublime. I have had very similar thoughts and questions as Rory. And I’m delighted to watch you answering these points of inquiry so fully and with compelling answers and reason. I as many miss your first class historical tv production’s on network TV. And surprised that you have not received offers from National Geographic or Discovery or Sky documentaries to name a few, for your enlightened historical knowledge , honesty , integrity that allows you to entertain us with our very own history. Programs on Becket and or Thomas More would be so informative and delightful. A new perspective regarding your favorite Henry viii? And an in depth program on Richard iii , with regards to the evidence of his brother not being sired by the same father , the Tudor destruction and altering of Richard’s portraits and the hump or not the hump :) finally twins in the tower . Please consider your admirers and the people who respect your opinions and would continue to hear them even though they are not members. I wish you all the best and I hope you can find the time to respond to this comment in the hope that your team passes it on to you. Yours sincerely. Dave in Hamburg

Seeing More's influence on the young Henry, could woke Rory Stuart have adversely misguided young Prince Harry?

thanks again david for your most kind and good upload for our sir thomas more if i could have been in that time i would have begged harry not to execute thomas in the series the tudors harry tells his charles brandon that he regreted what had happened to thomas and that he wished that thomas did not die to see his execution in the series of the tudors was and is so sad but just like the poor cardinal them boleyns were to blame yours avon leicestershire 2022

I have a question. As a Catholic, do you believe that England will ever condemn it's split with the True Christian Church?

So, being an 'honourable' man More make no attempt to use his position as, a-hem, a 'platform' to espouse his convictions in opposition to his king and friend. What a novel notion!

I was listening to a Holbien art expert. Holbien knew Thomas More, and he liked him. Holbien did not care for Thomas Cromwell. The painting of Anne of Cleves was wooden. Holbien knew Cromwell thought her a good match and perhaps made Anne of Cleves look better than reality. He used a weird frontal view imo the current Prince Henry is what you get with a state church. The current pope is moving toward synodality which started with the counter reformation.

We all have our orders, whether it be by command of Church or State.

I think that Saint Thomas More was great, he didn't want to die and he expressed reason and logic and the truth but against evil and lies, it doesn't matter, what's interesting is the very small number of people who stood firm, to the point of death and I guess this is normal, very few people can face death , most people aren't martyr material , even among the early Christians the number of martyrs was small by percentage among them , life is so precious, to be put to the test would be frightening .

Kings are creatures no contest God First all else is idolatry

A classic act of English common law murdered More? Henry tore up Magna Carta for a start.

Saint sir Thomas Moore, English martyr, ora pro nobis.

A symbol of the Church over the state or over the monarchy?

Henry Tudor, but why did he chew her?😆