Sister Wives #8 - (Coming Out) - Therapist Reacts 

The “Tradwife” trend is coming about because of the state of our economy , job market, and this inflation. Imagine being brainwashed and told you HAD to get a degree to get anywhere in life and then a decade later finding out that a degree means nothing. You can’t afford to buy a home, daycare costs are skyrocketing, it’s all super stressful. So why not have your spouse get a decent paying trade job and stay home with your kids and save yourself the headache of being broke and trying to build a career in a toxic work environment??

I love Dr. Honda’s perspective and knowledge/understanding of polyamory. Feels so rare that the topic can come up without judgement.

I love all of your discussion here! In my experience being raised in a high-demand religion, the pressure to never question or act outside the rules makes it very difficult to develop your own idea of who you are. It's hard to fight back against things that hurt you when you aren't even allowed to fully admit that it's hurting you ❤ I so appreciate your discussion and compassion in talking about this show!

It’s also important to note that most of these women get “counseling” only from pastors or other people from inside the community. Of course they tell to work on themselves, overcome jealousy and obey their husbands to feel better. So they get actively told to ignore their own needs all the time.

In terms of the kids, let’s just say NONE of them want to continue their family line via plural marriage

I’m so grateful to you for stepping back and going into the larger context of polygamy. I started watching the show when you announced you were doing it next, and I’m having ongoing difficulty with the tension of feeling real empathy towards these individuals struggling and “but are you brainwashed? Do you have a connection with yourself?” And “what is the agenda of this show?” I feel like the sister wives have a childish insistence on having a lot of superficial things their way, and I wonder if that’s because they’ve sacrificed their agency over their own lives in such a - well, fundamental way.

I come from a country where polygamy is legal (one man up to 4 women). Although the law states that you need the permission of the other wives it is rarely followed. Even when it is there is a lot of coercion and strong arming involved for the women to give consent. I agree with Dr Honda that polyamory’s legality should be reconsidered but for polygamy there would need to be a lot of guardrails and stipulations needed to prevent the exploitation of women.

In the Islamic faith there is polygamy up to 4 wives, but this isn’t a goalpost, and is still “grody” to most people in the religion. If you have wealth, you are obligated to take care of people. During the formation of the religion, it allowed widows, elderly women, the sick and ‘less desirable women’ in the community to be provided for in a context where they had little power. In this context men were lesser in number due to war or conflict, and so there were many more women who needed to be taken care of outside a typical family structure.

My absolute favourite episodes are the ones where Dr. Honda goes "so I went on a deep dive..." The research, and the way you present that research, is always SO interesting and so impressive.

Would you ever consider reacting to TEEN MOM? 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

I feel like how I always feel about these things...if you make something illegal, like prostitution or in this case marrying several partners, you are also taking a layer of protection away from the people you are trying to protect. Like women in this type of marriage are they more likely to reach out for help in case they need it or are they more likely to possible have friends outside this lifestyle and hear their opinions if their lifestyle is legal and they are open/free to talk about it and reach out or are they more likely to do that when it is illegal? Lifestyles like this will always exist, so how do we "protect" people in it? By legalizing it because then everybody is more "free" to have honest conversations around it and possibly reach out for help.

Always appreciate your perspective. Thanks for sharing!

This is the kind of episode I come for!

Could you do a deep dive on the 7M TikTok dance cult? There's a Netflix documentary about it, and it's awful. The main guy has been doing this over and over for decades, and I think it would make for an interesting cult deep dive.

With a man married to several wives but only legally married to one, what happens to heath insurance. I’m sure insurance companies don’t cover the whole family.

Always on the journey with you Dr!

In mainstream mormonism, poligamy became more prevalent in the 1800s because women were considered property (by the government) at the time, and could not legally own land. So if a woman's husband dies, her house, property, etc belonged to the state, and she and her kids would be homeless and destitute.. To prevent this, and to help many women widowed because of religious conflict, some mormons began to practice poligamy. Just so she had a 'husband' and could keep her own property. When the practice was no longer needed, mainstream mormonism no longer practiced it, and in fact if current members are found to be practicing poligamy, they're excommunicated.

What you fail to address is that religion is unscientific and that biulding any type of relationship on top of that is bound to fail.

I appreciate this video. I understand your world view (and likely have a similar one), but I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian culture and I see the good and the bad in it. It’s still hard for me to hear my leftist friends ridicule the people who loved me and helped shape me (even though I also disagree with their ideology). For polygamy, there is a documentary about a group in Centennial Park where they mention wanting to go public and teach their youth about coercion and abuse. They feel if the stigma is removed, victims would feel safer going to the police with allegations of abuse.

You need to watch the Escaping Polygamy. There is a lot of Children getting abuse in these groups.

Pls stop leaving spoilers in the comments. 🫣

"It makes property rights and child custody more complicated" literally this entire show 😂

As a longtime Dr. Honda fan, card carrying intersectional feminist, and recent first time watcher-througher of Sister Wives, I am beyond excited to get Kirk’s take on this. Couldn’t think of a better person to unpack the wild (yet incredibly slow) journey he’s about to go on.

Every time Dr. Honda says his dogs are barking I think he's telling us his feet hurt😂😂

Highly, highly recommend the podcast Mormon stories if you want to learn more about Mormon history and experiences, it’s an incredible resource!!

you see in later seasons that the wives actually were very upset that they had ever kissed before their wedding. the way they saw it, robyn was “kissing a married man”

Also the lost boys phenomenon is more because the father's see their sons as competition for new wives. Many of these groups are fine with marrying girls under 18 to these older men.

Just for some context for you: Robyn wasn't raised in polygamy in the same way as Christine. Her mom was sleeping with a married man from a different state who would come by once in a while and get the "honeymoon treatment". Her mom did eventually marry Paul, I believe. But it does speak a lot to how Robyn joined the Browns and did much of the same. The husband drives hours away for special treatment occasionally and then they get brought in when things are bad.

People can be manipulated and abused, then can not get out of it. Very sad. I prefer society help to protect and have safety measures in place.

I think there would be harm to children in a polygamous family like the Brown's because there's no way a dad can give adequate attention to 18 children. Of course, the wives can make up for that if they're well attuned to the children, but still, the children would be missing out on their father.

FYI The main stream Mormon church still believes that men who reach the highest level of heaven (the celestial kingdom) will have multiple wives and populate their own planets as Gods in the afterlife. That’s why Mormon men can get remarried in the temple after a divorce or if they become widows. Mormon women cannot remarry another spouse in the temple unless they are unsealed from the first husband, with his written permission.

Kody is definitely grody, but not just because he’s a polygamist.

The insight about Kody being passive and unassertive because polygamous structures require this of males in order for them not to be kicked out was really interesting and explains a LOT. I know he wasn't raised polygamous but he's way too okay with it to have been brought in totally blind.

I never thought I'd hear dr Kirk say touch grass hehe

Interesting how much mormon-related content the channel has covered (the Susan and Josh Powell stuff, Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Franke...). I would love to see Dr. Honda in conversation with youtubers who have some inside perspective on these things (I'm a big fan of the ex-mormon duo Zelph on the Shelf, at least one of whom is poly!)

Polygamy was made illegal in Utah as a condition imposed by the federal government for Statehood. It was not popular with members of the Mormon church at the time but overtime those that still practiced polygamy were pushed into the fringes of Utah society. Its basically an open secret, especially in So. Utah

I've always had an issue with polygamy in this context, because people in this faith see their salvation tied to this structure. Participation in this structure, whether it brings depression, guilt, thought supression, etc., often continues because of the great fear of leaving it. Fear of the outside world, of going to hell, or sinning. This type of thought control, with threats of hell/ or punishment is really problematic to me.

Dr. Honda, I want to warn you, if you humanize Robyn or Kody in any way you're going to get a lot of backlash. I was a little worried that you were going to do commentary on the show because many are emotionally invested. They might turn on you 😅 I had to leave the Sister Wives subreddit because it was just a Robyn and Kody hate forum where theres a lot of assumptions spoken as fact. Looking through the comments it seems people are doing the same thing here. Anyway, good luck! I love your channel 😊

Polygamy can harm children through neglect and parentification that results from the family set up (among other things). Unfortunately, this becomes apparent as the series progresses.

also, your opinion is gonna evolve (for better AND for worse) over the next 14 seasons

It's an interesting discussion that I think goes beyond the polygamy aspect and into cults as a whole. It's a topic I've seen in several cult documenteries, where loved ones on the outside have tried to get police help for someone they know within a high control group. Often authorities can't do anything because how do we measure whether consent is truly present in an environment likely influenced by brainwashing.

Thank you so much for validating & supporting polyamorists!! It means a lot in this society where we are largely misunderstood & mischaracterized. ♡♡

“Oh, she doesn’t use a toaster!” 😂

Let’s ducking go!!!

Dr. Honda, I’ve been watching Sister Wives since it first aired, and I’ve been watching you since 2020. I’ve been wanting you to dissect this show for years. I am sooooo excited to see your takes on all of this. I can’t believe you’re actually taking it on considering how many seasons there are. I was interested in this show because of the family’s Mormon background since I grew up Mormon. They aren’t part of the mainstream lifestyle but I found them interesting because in a way they adhere more to the faith’s founding teachings than mainstream Mormons do, because of the polygamy. And, their personalities and culture, minus the polygamy, really reminded me of my mainstream Mormon friends and family. Growing up, I knew Mormons used to practice polygamy, because I had a grandpa who was very against the church and would tell us all of its history anytime we saw him. (This was uncomfortable growing up, but I’m very grateful for it now.) I had acquaintances growing up in the church who never knew that the church’s founder had 40+ wives. In the back of my head, I always knew that supposedly in heaven, we would all practice polygamy, and would apparently lose all of our “bad” jealous feelings and things would be perfect. This was always a very distressing thought to me. Watching this family, I initially felt they actually had a good setup. This is a very long, slow show, but at least the drama doesn’t feel fabricated in my opinion. They actually have so little going on that about half of this show is flashbacks to past episodes. I really enjoy it though, for whatever reason. Church President Wilford Woodruff published a manifesto in 1890 which is believed by mainstream Mormons to have been inspired by God, advising Mormons not to enter polygamous marriages anymore. Utah’s Statehood was at risk if the church would not stop polygamy. However, mainstream Mormons know they will have the opportunity to practice polygamy after death. And, if a husband is married and his wife dies, he may marry another woman and he will be “sealed” to both of them in heaven. This still happens today in the mainstream Mormon church.

In order for Utah to be granted statehood in 1896, they had to ban polygamy. They had 6 failed attempts to become a state before Cleveland granted it. You don’t necessarily have to do down the rabbit hole of mormon history and Joseph Smith, but back then polygamy was a big taboo. And for other states in a conservative time that were mostly protestant and looked down on the mormon religion. Utah needed federal funding so they banned polygamy from mainstream mormon teachings and had to break up the marriage between the mormon church and Utah politics. Now, I think polygamy is illegal because of money and tax purposes mostly, but theres still taboo and christianity in the mix. Oh and if they tried to legalize it now I’m sure it would become a culture war issue. Oh but don’t worry the Browns and folks always find a way to work the system to!! Lots of unenforced outdated laws today polygamy isn’t the only one.

During the birth in season 1, they talked about how they don't go to the hospital for birth because their lifetstyle is illegal---they seemed very paranoid about prosecution. And although it was technically illegal in Utah at the time, I wonder if this paranoia was fed to them by cult elders in order to further isolate them from non-cult institutions. It's unlikely any of them have known ANYONE that was EVER prosecuted for polygamy because as you mentioned, it's not really enforced, so they seem to fear it to an unreasonable degree.

I would love to see you do an episode on TRADWIVES!!! 22:29

your yammering is what I’m here for!! Greetings from Belgium to Seattle, wishing you a great day ❤

the only thing "polyamory" means is "multiple consensual relationships". Kody, Meri, Janelle, Christine, and Robyn all consent. Polygamy is under the polyamory umbrella.

Dr. Honda I would love you to talk to Sam and Melissa from Growing Up In Polygamy RU-vid channel. They're great. Sam has the perspective of growing up in a closed polygamist fundamentalist community.

I am pansexual. We don't own the phrase "coming out". There's more than one way to do it.

Thank you I LOVE this and I’m watching every episode over and over ❤

I am glad we are able to make choices as long as bad things do not happen to people. ❤there are programs on youtube that tell about people getting out. How they did not have good experiences. ❤

I’m polyamorous. I grew up Catholic and monogamous culture. Always felt different. Couldn’t understand why. Took me a very long time to come out. The same could be said for someone who is raised in any form of a poly type culture that you’re going to feel potentially brainwashed and confused by that culture, if you are at heart monogamist. It’s a shame that there is an either or culture versus just letting people feel the way they do so they can get into healthy relationships with like-minded people.

Hi Dr. Honda! I’m so late to the conversation here so I’m not sure this comment will be seen. I am an ex Mormon and was told that the US government threatened to remove the LDS church’s tax exempt status if they were not obeying the laws. The way I understood it is that there was a bigamy concern and to keep the government from removing the rights of the church as a religious institution, they were forced to stop practicing polygamy. This meant that some polygamist members from the early church were forced into secrecy (this includes my own great, great grandmother) and moving forward monogamy was pushed as the God-favored form of family units. I believe I read some literature that backed this up many years ago but I’ve wanted flag this with you as a potential position of the mainstream church which is why Utah became hostile toward polygamist break off groups - it threatened the tax exempt religious status of the mainstream church.

Your nuance and willingness to examine other points of view is so refreshing.

So excited you are finally doing sister wives! Born and raised in a religious cult (not FLDS/mormon) and anyone interested in this idea around choice within cultic systems, I highly recommend Janja Lalich’s work on Bounded Choice

Great episode, great conversation.

I think the taboo against polygamy comes from cultures developed in xold climates. When you have to work hard to survive the winter, one man can't support such a large family. Nor can society afford to lose the strength by shunning their boys. Or have them being emotionally unstable by not giving them the opportunity to have a family. Especially if you think of marriage as the formal contract between families to provide for the upbringing of the next generation. That love is a important part, is a relatively new idea, after all.

Honest question... If polygamy is illegal in most states, will the people practicing this be arrested? Does anyone know? Do the kids end up in the DHS system?

28:16 🤨 You EITHER have to get rid of two thirds of the boys OR you have to consistently bring more women into the group

Dont care what they do in their bed as long as the children are taken care of and adults are fully consenting. Problem is that thats not happening. They want to say they are married but they dont want to take responsibility for all the children and the state ends up paying for their child care medical.

Oh we are getting to the good stuff! Edit: Whoops I saw ‘coming out’ and thought we were talking about a different event with this family… I thought we jumped ahead pretty far! Still a great video with a lot of thought provoking topics

What is "mainstream latchkey family"? Sometimes it's hard for me to follow the "yammering" which is usually most interesting part of these videos.

Morality and virtues keep me going ❤

Just want to add that if you do have a one kid family (like me) that is very ok! Community can be built in many ways, and that is what Dr. Honda is getting at. A strong and healthy community is what helps humans be good people. This doesn't always come from multiple children.

I am loving this series, i tried to have a poligamous relationship with an ex boyfriend and it was dreadful, here's what happened: he had no standards for women, if she was a poligamous person he was in, but that was not the problem, when i told him he could go ahead and date them without involving me he said i didn't love him enough and he really showed that he didn't care if i liked them or not, he wanted me to date them too even if i disliked their looks or personality Hearing dr. Honda talk about the wives is actually healing the part of me that felt guilty for saying no to my ex boyfriend, because when you love someone and expects to build life with them you feel really sad about not giving them their dream lifestyle, so i understand the wives, and i hope they find strenght to be themselves and live as they please

As a non monogamous person, thank you so much for approaching the topic with nuance and open mindedness, and highlighting the difference between 'healthy non monogamy' and 'patriarchal high control groups'

I can say for myself as a fan I looked past the polygamy part and judged them, 2 in particular, for how they were as participants in the marriage and in the family dynamic.

I love the episodes like this! More clinical and very insightful

Dr H analysis always valuable but regarding this very long running reality show, skipping ahead to the most recent seasons may have worked better

This was excellent!

I’ll be interested to see if Kirk’s opinions on whether polygamy should be illegal change as he watches more of the show. It seems to me that a lot of changes that happened in the family were because they were able to be public, and especially the children have been able to make different choices for their own lives because they didn’t have to hide their family

What about those kids? You say it's worse for the women? They're adults. They should be protecting their children! Protections for the women? The minor ones...yes! Not the adults that enter into those messes. What about protections put in place for those children when they selfishly drag kids into it or procreate under those circumstances.

When people asked you to review this show, we didn't need you to explain cults, Religion or polyamory. We wanted you to react to Cody's behavior especially in the latest season because it's insane, just a heads up because I think you're kinda missing the point

It's bigamy that's illegal. It's not about oppression of women, because anyone can be a bigamist.

Dr Honda, a suggestion : have you watched Bad Surgeon? I would love you have your reaction! 😊

I didn’t want to mention this, but it’s been going on for many episodes. There’s something about the thumbnail that to me reads “The rapist reacts“. Maybe put “therapist” and “reacts” on two different lines? My brain has never broken down that word before in that way, and I think it’s something about the thumbnail font/spacing.

Thanks Dr. Kirk for the heads up that this would be more of a rant. I actually appreciate the breakdown. I think more government isn't good. I don't agree marriage being more than 2 people but I STILL don't think we need more laws. There are bigger fish to fry and fill the prisons with. Now if there is harm or manipulation involved where there is harm sure then get law enforcement involved. I also think it must be a lot of work for the guy to spread his attention around that much and try to keep them happy. Heck a couple of 2 people need therapy for communication sometimes. He has 3 long term relationships!😳

I don’t know why I feel so protective of this family. While their family is very dysfunctional, I really don’t think they’re cult-y at all. They don’t box themselves in so that the outside world can’t influence their wives and children - they are integrated with the rest of the community, it just so happens that they are integrated with polygamist families as well. Their fear of the legal system breaking their family apart is well founded, and lastly, they are fully accepting of their gay, nonbinary, and monogamous children. I respect that you are cautious and looking for red flags, as you should, but I’m disappointed that while you caveat your statements with stuff like “who knows”, everything else in your videos signal that you are working from the assumption that they are in a cult, and it honestly comes off as prejudice in my personal opinion

i think the laws are in utah about polygamy to use if there is a case like warren jeffs although it was for underage brides, not just polygamy.