In the viewer's video, I think it possible the white vehicle would have overtaken regardless of any signal, based on the speed he caught up in what looked to be a 30mph zone. From the offending vehicle's position, he never intended to negotiate the roundabout properly.
I think that wasn’t the first time they had done that. Look at the speed at which they approached the give way line! I doubt they were even phased by the honking
Bang on the money! The closing speed seemed excessive. We've all seen/experienced this. If the driver is aggressive, impatient, reckless, emotionally unintelligent, dangerous, incompetent, etc, then whatever you do is irrelevant. Basically, you are in their way and slowing them down. Period.
yep, the clip would've been a non-issue if the white car wasn't going straight over the roundabout. funnily enough the next following car, in rear-view at 2:02, does it as well.
That is also a problem with local councils putting them at stupid angles to the point you can't drive around them and are forced to go over them if you would like an amazing example of this look for the junction of Pontefract Ln & Cross Green Lane, Leeds and approach it from A63 towards Park Parade the straight on lane for that mini roundabout is actually to the right of the actual roundabout it flaming stupid
This is so common on all the mini roundabouts near me. If everyone treated them as 'standard' roundabouts, overtaking wouldn't even come into it. I even called out my dad for cutting the roundabout, his response was, 'I thought that was the point of them' 🤔.
I sometimes drive through a very tiny mini roundabout in Notting Gill, London. Almost all drivers drive straight through it, and I was doing the same thing too. However, recently, after watching this channel, I've started going around it. Going around it feels a bit stupid since it's so tiny, but it's the right thing to do, and a copper won't give me a ticket. I also signal while going around it just to communicate to other road users what my intentions are.
Yeah I was indicating right at a mini round about, but a car entering the round about coming from the exit must of not seen my signal and probably assumed I was turning left because I went around the round about. I stopped let the go as they were right in front of me. Matey was gesturing in a way to offer me out lol I just laughed at him
Don't know if you will see this but today i passed my driving test with only 3 minors With 0 professional driving lessons all i do is go out with my dad and watch ur videos if hadn't i don't think i would've passed without you so thank you
I was always taught to treat every roundabout, regardless of size, shape, number of exits, and angles etc. just like you would a full sized roundabout with an island. Including road position, signals, lanes etc., and that's done me proud for 30+ years on the road.
I’d disagree, usually at a “normal” roundabout you have to give multiple signals because not all other road users can see your intentions at all times, but at a mini roundabout the other drivers can see you throughout the manoeuvre so you only need/should one signal, so treat it like any other junction.
@@thomascarroll9556 If it's too mentally taxing for you to modify your indicator around a mini roundabout, I believe you should spend some time driving around somewhere with lots of them to practice. It should be as natural as shifting gears.
Exactly. I'd indicate left or right on what's otherwise a perfect straight line were it not for the mini roundabout. Obviously, don't cancel your right turn signal to put on your left as you emerge into the exit, as there's not enough time and no point.
And that is wrong. For small roundabouts the rules say you don't need to signal because it could affect your control of the vehicle. But signalling conveys information to other road users and pedestrians, so signaling accurately does not cause any harm to others. So I would certainly recommend signalling whenever it is safe to do so. The other time you don't need to signal on roundabouts is when there are no other vehicles or pedestrians around. You're signalling for nobody. My personal hate is the stupidity of drivers that signal right going round the roundabout but then fail to signal left when they are about to come off at the next exit, which causes confusion for pedestrians and is dangerous.
I use the 12 O'Clock generalisation. That means if the exit from the roundabout is after the 12 O'Clock position on the signs approaching the roundabout then it's essentially a right signal.
I think you missed out on another big reason to indicate here, on top of the threat from behind: If you're taking the correct line around a mini roundabout (like the cammer did), then a lot of people will think you're turning left, just as you said. And that includes the people waiting to emerge from the first exit. So without a signal there is a real risk that they'll pull out in front of you, and that's arguably a harder save for you than what the cammer did here
This is true for even moderately sized roundabouts too. I try not to shortcut any roundabouts especially if there are vehicles following me. Following the left lane around on a two lane (or greater) roundabout often fools the unskilled into thinking I am going left. The key is to realise there are these poor drivers out there in sufficient numbers to be ready for their poor actions and take the roundabout relatively slowly.
Yup, in the viewers video I would have almost certainly indicated right and mostly aimed directly for the exit. I tend to find that is a much more defensive line to take, particularly when I'm on the motorbike. Following it close to the outer edge definitely gives the impression that you are turning left - particularly without the indicator. Obviously that completely changes when there is traffic approaching from the other junctions.
I disagree. The road was going straight or left. If you're going thru a roundabout then no indicator required (unless you are one of the billion road users who NEVER do a vehicular light check and bubs are not working). The white vehicle never indicated right either and any overtaking vehicle MUST pass where there is a safe measure of room to do so. I think the white Chelsea Tractor was in the wrong for not overtaking safely. (Ever notice the dark van at the road entrance on the right?) (and to add confusion. As much as I check my vehicle lights on a weekly - sometime bi-weekly -basis, there is a possibility that the bulb "burns" out during that particular journey and isn't obvious.) NEVER trust anyone who is in front of you... that white tractor was at fault.)
As an addition to the points already made, on larger roundabouts of two or more lanes, if lane one takes the next exit but also the next (lane 2 would be marked as exit 2 only) I think its a good idea to signal right if I am in lane 1 and taking the exit 2, as often people using lane 2 may not know the road layout or not observe road markings, or indeed not care, and assume I'm taking the next exit and take exit 1 from lane 2 and side swipe. I hope that makes sense! There are many examples of this on the various dashcam footage channels.
@@N269 I don't think there's any question about the white car being at fault but that doesn't mean the camera car can't learn anything to make it less likely to happen again. Clearly the white car overtook because they failed to understand where the camera car was about to go. The right signal could have been used to remove ambiguity. In that situation it wouldn't mean "I'm turning right" because there's no right turn, but it would very obviously say "I'm not turning left". It wasn't strictly necessary to indicate but it could have helped.
I signal every time in those situations to avoid these sort of near misses. Some people look at you like you are a newbie when they perceive you as over-signalling, but they fail to realise that as soon as you put your signalling on it immediately communicates to everyone around you what your intentions are and most importantly, it might make a car or pedestrian to stop for you to avoid accidents.
Me too. Especially on RAB and Mini RAB. On the various dashcam videos, there are so many mistakes and near misses on RAB. I always enter one with the utmost caution.
I've had this on a full-sized roundabout. Going straight on (2nd exit) whilst 'keeping my lane' in the left lane I've had people pull out on me in what I assume was their belief that I was turning left (if I signal right I'll confuse those who are genuinely turning right, alongside me). I'm accustomed to anticipating it, on this basis!
I generally use a right signal for anything beyond the "12 o'clock" position that most people use to define a right turn. One of my exceptions to this would be on a dual entry and dual exit roundabout where the slightly to the right exit is actually a continuation of the main road that I am on with two lanes entering and leaving. A right signal would give the impression I am in the wrong lane and actually want to continue to the next exit. While it could be a benefit in that the car next to me hangs back and creates a staggered formation...it could also have the opposite effect and cause the other driver to go into aggressive blocking mode and only concentrating on me rather than the road as a whole Interesting video and I'm sire everyone has their own safe way of approaching this topic (pun intended!)
Agreed that a signal may have benfitted in this instance. However, look back at 1:32 and you see him cut straight across the previous roundabout, which wasn't at that much of an angle. Judging by his speed at catching up our driver, the Ecosport is a person in a hurry for a hospital visit as a patient sometime soon. Perhaps a speed camera might have helped more here. And 'yes' there's a few mini-roundabouts near me that myself and everyone else cuts across if only slightly because of the angle and position the white circle has been set. However, I tend to signal at these when anyone is behind me or in the road from the left that I intend to pass.
The person in the Ecosport is just a bad driver, it doesn't matter really what the driver in front does to an extent as the person in the Ecosport is just going to cause a problem no matter what.
The white car is an ignorant fool!They have overtaken a car on the wrong side of the road behind a car that is NOT indicating left. It is quite clear in the Highway Code, if a car is in the left hand lane in a conventional roundabout,and not indicating left or right then it will be going straight on ,second exit. People don't read the Highway Code once they have passed their test and never do again,ever! I actually don't agree with Ashley about the conformation signal. A normal roundabout is in affect a straight road with four left hand exits. If you approach a roundabout with an exit that is very slightly past twelve o'clock and give a right hand signal the oncoming traffic will stop and assume you are doing a uturn around a small roundabout,and all the traffic behind may assume you are doing the same,and going all the way round the roundabout! Of course, this should be avoided,but carried out with common sense it can be a safe manoeuvre is you go very slowly! In 43 years of driving I have NEVER had a driver overtake me on a small roundabout on the right,and have never given a confirmation signal The driver the white car had a bad attitude! In conclusion,by indicating right and going straight on you are indicating for a junction that doesn't exist,and confusing other road users,and could endanger pedestrians,and cyclists. It's best not to give a signal,than one that is misleading. Would you give a right hand signal every time you pass a junction on your left to confirm you are NOT turning left? End of rant! I used to be an ADI.
@@nearlyretired7005 Totally agree. 38 years driving, 34 LGV C+E and often find myself having to give way to traffic THAT ARE NOT turning in front of me. If people had to pay for the fuel the truck uses getting back up to speed...
@@nearlyretired7005 in New Zealand our code is much the same and in reality and practice, is not difficult to signal correctly. Some of us have no problem to do so yet the majority of drivers don’t signal left if taking the first exit or subsequent exit or signal right when intending to go straight ahead and are often still doing so as the exit. No left signal clearly signals you are not exciting left. Neither signal clearly signals you are going straight ahead and so on. Making a ‘compensatory’ indication can only lead to complications.
Thank you, have had this argument with many people - doesn't matter if the road is just curving, if the signal helps someone understand what you're about to do and increases safety, it should be used. Someone coming opposite won't necessarily know the road is curving.
Sure, but equally the driver of the following vehicle cut across the road markings. If they hadn't and drove as required by rule 188, the situation would have been avoided regardless of signaling.
My rule of thumb is that if I'm crossing someone's path, I will signal to remove any doubt - Mini roundabout or full size. There's a mini roundabout near me where I also signal left to aid traffic flow, as many drivers from the road opposite will hesitate due to the approach angle (and probabaly past experience). We also have an awkward small 'proper' roundabout near me, with a straight on 12 o'clock exit (towards the M1) immediately after a busy road from town at the 11 o'clock. I find a right signal there very useful! Many don't signal at all if they're heading to the M1, which limits traffic flow and leads to lots of horn use! You're right, it all comes down to the situation.
Signal? YES! Always!!! 20 years ago I failed my 1st driving test for not signaling in a roundabout similar to that. Passed the 2nd time but I have not forgotten about it and it has stayed in my mind.
I was taught it was a simple as viewing the roundabout as a clock; anything right of 12 is a right signal. Left signal not until passing the exit before yours. Thanks for the reasoning update, it's helpful.
Ashley, I agree with you. Each roundabout has its own characteristics and you need to make your own decision. There is a roundabout near me where the straight ahead exit is the third exit but it is best to stay in the left hand lane. I do not signal right going onto the roundabout but I do signal left as I exit.
There's one near here like that. It's regularly adorned with shattered red,yellow and white plastic. You can go by the lane markings, but people still do ignore those if they're "locals" who just do what everyone else does.
Been editing the comment as I go cos, as usual, you cover the points that initially spring to mind. My thoughts, particularly on 3 exit roundabouts, the use of a left or right turn signal really does affect flow. I had to deal with one of these types of roundabout every day on my way to work. Issue was that people wouldn't indicate so there would be no indication of whether they were exiting before you this giving an opportunity to enter the roundabout or if they were continuing in front. Being the busiest part of the day, this would really exacerbate the queues
Generally, that is a good rule. Also, for larger roundabouts, where there is a clear approach sign, if the exit is marked as to the right of straight ahead, not only would it probably help you to decide on indication, but it should also help you to decide which lane you need to be in if there are no other indications on signs or the road. I can think of one roundabout I know with five exits where the third exit is the main road carrying on, marked as slightly right - many's the time I have had vehicles coming alongside me in the left-hand (of two) lanes before the roundabout carry on round on my lefthand side on the roundabout...
@@kwlkid85 there is one in my area with 5 exits with none of them at a 3, 6, 9 or 12 position. Not to mention the lanes leading up to the road are not what you would naturally think you would need to be in taking any of the exits (two of which lead to dual carriageways). It's a bit of a sh show tbh, there are so many accidents there and people constantly run the red lights on it. At Least the fire station is nearby.
@@urbanshadow777 One of the worst roundabouts I use is at J8 on the M11. People just can't follow their lane and they're constantly cutting across. The big problem is they've put yellow boxes over each entry so that means there's no lane markings and apparently people cannot follow signs.
The important thing is your position on the final part of the approach. Many mini roundabouts will turn you into the left to help you follow the route round the painted centre. This means the junction opposite is now to your right, so if there is a vehicle to your left or behind, a signal is very useful to the other drivers and saves confusion. A good example is the Cross Lane mini roundabout in Gateshead, which is between the Metrocentre and the DVSA test centre. The approach looks straight ahead and the change of direction is very slight but if you don't signal someone WILL pull out in front of you from the left. Not good if you are only 60 seconds into your driving test. I freely admit that part of the problem is that most drivers will drive straight over the painted centre, so don't expect others to obey the law.
@0:19 Yes. A right signal is important to the other car approaching the roundabout that they may need to stop and give way. Otherwise they may wrongly infer you are taking the first exit. Also, if turning left, I’d also signal left. The other car can use that as an additional cue that your are *NOT* turning right.
@@pifko87 lol of course I have an SUV, I've only had a fine for going 28 in a 20 zone, my only defence was unaware of the "new" speed limit. Can't say I drive much differently then when I didn't have an SUV !
Really good topic for a video. There is a roundabout in Mitchum, South London near where I live and I have learned through experience that it is better not to indicate right when taking the slight right exit at that particular roundabout. I think this has emerged due to established practice, as 99% of the traffic do not indicate right to take that exit, so if I indicate right there it causes confusion as people think I am going to go right round. Though I agree it is proper to indicate, sometimes you have to form a view based on your knowledge of established practice! Great videos as always Ashley.
I have a roundabout local to me where the approach is awful, the roundabout line markings start ~20 meters before the roundabout and very left in the carriageway. The right side then goes into entry lane 3 of 3, the left goes into 1 and 2 of 3 for two car lengths. I use the left lane as no other markings are available along with 60% of other road users. The remaining 40% try to take the opportunity to overtake even though the left lane naturally goes around the roundabout. I believe it splits the way it does to allow staggered filter entry and exit when traffic is heavy. I could be wrong and like the other 60% could be in completely the wrong lane for that roundabout 🤷♂
So what if they think you are going right round? Does it really impede their progress that much or cause any sort of dangerous misunderstanding if you do not go right round?
@@cactusbase3088 Yep, a totally valid way of looking at it and I would not criticise anyone for indicating there if they felt it appropriate. However, my way of looking at it is: indication is all about communicating our intentions to other road users but in this particular case (on this particular roundabout in Mitchum) the act of not indicating is actually more a effective way of communicating my intentions than indicating would be! Of course, this is very specific to these particular roundabout and usually I would be exactly where you are on this issue.
@@theotendleeey I suppose this does make sense if the situation of not signalling aids traffic flow without causing additional risk. Interesting debate.
Hi, Watch a lot of your video’s and find them very useful and educational, so I hope the driver who committed the driving offence of driving over the mini roundabout rather than staying on the road to manoeuvre the hazard, watches this and hopefully becomes a much better driver than this clip shows. Good vids Ashley.
Here in Spain, indicators are rarely used. We are meant to indicate when leaving a roundabout. We are supposed to exit from the right hand lane but that doesn't usually apply to some when they cut across from the left as if they are the only drivers on the road. Fabulous videos, Ashley. Keep up the great work you do!
l find the biggest problem is the Spanish only use the roundabouts outside lane ..(if there is one)..regardless of their exit point. which differs hugely by the way britain's are taught to negotiate same....
@@brianperry That's why you can always spot UK (and I guess Irish) holidaymakers in their rentals: left lane to turn left. It's a daft setup really because it means there's a lane that is left entirely empty.
@@PedroConejo1939 in Spain motorists should use the inside lanes if they are taking the third or subsequent exits, or if they need to re-circle the roundabout. When a driver's exit arrives, they should progressively merge into the outer lane. If this isn't possible, drivers are supposed to go around a second time to try again.
Clue is in the description folks, they are called mini roundabouts where you drive AROUND it. Otherwise they would be called straight-on abouts!! Clearly there are vehicles that need to go straight over like HGV's & buses. Or as in the example the 'stupid'! The signalling issue - signal if it going to help or instruct someone else. Assess each situation on it's merits as Ashley said; that will cause many road users to have a brain fade or melt down.
100% right signal. Not only for cars behind, but helps if there was a car at that first exit waiting to enter the roundabout. The driver of that car behind was a numpty of the highest order, mind
I took a military driving test in Singapore. The instructor was a Singaporean, and taught his pupils to indicate right to go straight on, that was the Singapore conventional signalling. I had learned to drive in the Netherlands, and used European signalling protocol. The European testing officer failed all the other trainee drivers, as he was anticipating a return to the UK. He also insisted on a 3 point turn, which is a strickt no no in Singapore due to the Monsoon Drains on both sides of most roads. autre temps, Autre Mode!
A huge factor is the angle of the give way line relative to the exit straight on. The example in your viewer's clip forces you more into a left turn initially (if you use the roundabout properly). It's not as bad when the give way marking is perpendicular to the exit straight ahead.
If the roundabout is painted and the give way lines are perpendicular then I was taught that you don't need to go all the way around. But as you say that doesn't apply here.
I would always use a right signal but I am aware of vehicles close behind like David says most drivers fail to negotiate mini roundabouts correctly. Near where I live there is a double mini roundabout where I witnessed numerous drivers just driving directly over both. Thanks to your videos it may just help to educate a few of these idiots .
A schoolfriend of mine back in 2001 was on his driving test and was directed to a mini-roundabout to leave at the 2nd exit, definitely bearing to the right as in the examples given in the video. He indicated right, someone pulled out in front of him from the 1st exit and the examiner halted the test for public safety and failed him. He questioned it with his instructor, who made an official complaint and while he still had to retake his test, the test centre issued an edict to their examiners that on that particular mini-roundabout on their test route, a right hand signal was correct for the second exit. I've always followed that example since.
So many people treat a mini-roundabout as an over-bout. So yeah I do use my indicator on mini-roundabouts as shown on your video. Even then, I've seen people behind me just cut across the roundabout.
In the Netherlands we don't really have the mini roundabouts (as far as I know). Also you're not obligated to put on a left signal (in UK a right signal) when you're planning to go 3/4 of the roundabout. However, I find it very annoying when drivers don't do this because it makes the communication that much easier. As I see it, the rules should be to always signal right (in UK left) for leaving the roundabout, a right signal (in UK left) if taken 1/4, no signal when taking the roundabout 2/4 (straight on) and a left signal (in UK right) when taking the roundabout 3/4 or fully.
Very interesting discussion you've got here Ashley. I'd consider it more of a benefit than a hindrance as it would be easier to forget to signal left than to actually indicate right. If you have a 1,6, and 9 o clock exit mini roundabout and sometimes comes from the 6 with a car waiting at the 9, if you position yourself to go straight but it looks like you're going left, without indicating right, you could have forgotten to signal, or you could be going straight. However, a right hand signal says that you're almost certainly not turning left. The only snag with this is someone could interpret it as you saying, I'm going to turn around at this roundabout - which could be a very real possibility at a full sized roundabout, which is also why I don't like people doing that near a roundabout at my house. A lot of people indicate right to go straight which leads to a delay in pulling out from people at the exit the car leaves off of because it looks like they're turning right, and some won't signal off either.
That said, surely a delay due to someone misreading the intentions of someone signalling right is better than not signalling and getting collisions? It's literally about saving one or two seconds which to me just isn't a big thing.
I'm glad you covered this Ashley as I sometimes struggle with this "Slightly right at a mini roundabout" scenerio in terms of signalling. Even more so when it's what I call an "inbetweenie roundabout". In other words, a roundabout that is too big to be considered a mini roundabout but also too small to be a full sized one. But you actually covered that in an example too. Hope all is well back in the UK. 4:40 am here in Vancouver and getting ready to drive my Mum and I across the border into neighbouring Washington State USA for a few days sight seeing. Amongst many other things, hoping to revisit the amazing LeMay car museum in Tacoma. Googling it will give you an idea. Our travels also involve driving over a mountain pass, weather permitting to the Bavarian themed town of Leavenworth. Oh and Mum's online ESTA application (required for visa exempt countries such as UK) barely came back approved in time for our US trip. We were holding our breath! Myself as a Canadian don't require it. Anyhow, Safe drIving all and Thanks again Ashley for this video, as it's made things clearer.
Looking to see where you are on the map on Internet. Looked up leavenworth which I never heard of, giving me loads of photos . Understand why you say it is bavarian themed. The geography around it is amazing as well . Thanks for drawing my attention to it.
@@thomaselliot2257 and to further add to the awe, I'll be heading north into Washington state, and if schedules align, we'll meet somewhere in the middle.
Yes,most definitely. Sometimes I also signal when coming off the roundabout,especially when it’s busy and vehicles waiting to move onto the roundabout.
I know it's obvious, but for clarity's sake, Ashley should have pointed out the clearly poor driving by the driver of the white car. That said, he is absolutely right about our responsibility to remain vigilant. We don't need a collision if we can avoid it. Edit: at 2:50, on reviewing, noticed about the assumption made by such driving as being incorrect. I just feel that a little more on that would have helped. Perhaps I'm being overcritical. Anyway, long term subscriber, and generally excellent channel
It’s never a bad idea to let other drivers be aware of your intentions, so that they can anticipate your behaviour. However, if done wrong it can be dangerous. Thanks for sharing your videos. Regards from Spain.
It is a bad idea if you lose control of the vehicle and that then causes an accident. And that is specifically why the rules say you don't have to signal on a small roundabouts such as those painted in the road that don't have a traffic island.
Absolutely I would indicate. I have a roundabout just like this on my route to work. I indicate right on the appraoch, and give a quick flick of left indicator after I pass the first exit so it's clear where I am going. I also have 2 mini roundabouts where they have created a roundabout on what were junctions to a straight road. This was done, I suspect, to slow traffic on the main run, and to give the traffic coming out of the sire road a safer exit. I'm going straight on...and I don;t indicate at either of these unless I am turning left. Usually I go straight on. I'm on a motorcycle..so I hold a road position to the right of centre of my lane, to make it clear which way I intend to go. I would give way to any oncoming cars turning right....and wait until I know they are NOT before I roll into the roundabout. I want traffic to know what I am doing. Gives them a better chance of not putting my life in danger. I avoid the 'Vine' manouver and focus on my own safety rather than indignant pieces to camera.
Excellent commentary. I'd say the principle i try to apply is to signal where there is possible ambiguity as to which way I will be leaving the mini roundabout, especially if the "main route" does something unexpected. In the clip, the overtaking driver is in contravention of the HWC (obvs), but I wonder if driving straight across is their normal habit. Perhaps it used to be a T-junction.
The question is whether signalling would have helped and of course it might have ensured the following driver didn't make the frankly reckless manoeuver. But, signal or not the following driver should have out themselves in that position so the situation has been created by the following driver not the lack of signalling.
If in both examples a right turn signal was used early, it creates a decent level of 'confusion' and that is actually what you need - it should make the other drivers wanting to use the roundabout stop and think 'what is he up to?' The driver behind is then in no doubt you are turning right so an overtake is out of the question. In this case the 'confusion' keeps us safe, much safer than the driver deciding no signal must mean you will not go around the roundabout.
Partner is learning to drive and ambiguity of this isn't helping. to signal or not to signal, so she just signals for everything as that's what her instructor wants her to do. when we drive together, i find this strange, as she learned that she must signal, rather than observe and judge/ assess what benefit it will have... Test on Tuesday, fingers crossed. Great stuff as always Ashley :)
I've had someone attempt to overtake me while I was turning right at a mini-roundabout while I was showing a right signal. They did this by completely cutting the mini-roundabout. Actually, I don't think they were overtaking as such, just driving like they normally do and I - to their evident irritation - 'cut them up' by following the correct and only legal course. Obviously, a signal should help but like the driver of the white thing, and the SUV in my instance, many drivers simply have no intention of going around a mini-roundabout, so much so that they cannot deal with someone who does. Many drivers turning right will actually pass to the right of the painted centre circle. That is the problem. Signalling right on the approach - or left - where it would benefit of those waiting should a given, if you care about other road-users, that is. If I ever lose my job and find myself at a loose end, I might turn into a form of Cycling Mikey and spend an hour or two videoing offenders because cutting mini-roundabouts is endemic and creates problems for those who drive with due care and attention.
Yes. I have a similar relatively busy roundabout near me and those non-indicators (about half of the cars) do stop from traffic flowing as freely as it could if they were indicating.
03:44 "Lack of a signal can be dangerous", Ashley you have no idea the amount of close calls i've had with drivers who were turning right on a miniroundabout without indicating. We enter at the same time, then they have the nerve to honk at me because i didnt "give way". Im not a mind reader, because a no signal means you're going straight ahead 12o'clock. A signal right, past 12o'clock, should be mandatory!
Was driving through Stevenage today and went through dozens of mini roundabouts, wish people did indicate as it would make the flow of traffic much smoother and lower the risk of near misses or unfortunate accidents.
Sometime ago I was luckly enough to do a police class one driving course, I did pass. And the rule they taught was to use a cloak face as a guide, if your exit at the r/about is to the right of "12" you indicate right. Also, mini r/about were created to improve trafic flow at miner junctions, "T" junctions and the like. So if people use the junction as a r/about it allows cars to go round each other, thus improving traffic flow. So, I beleive the markings that indicate a mini r/about should be made larger, like a speed bump, so that people are more likely to use them correctly and not drive straight across them. Just a thought.
I believe a left signal to leave on a mini roundabout as you show at 2:36 can help a driver approaching from the opposite direction as it gives them confidence that you are indeed going straight on, rather than turning right without indicating, a common event in my experience. For the same reason I will indicate left approaching a mini roundabout where the only options are straight on or right. The rest? Agree absolutely.
I have this gripe often... if the roundabout has 3 exits, you should always signal, IMO, UNLESS it's very, very clearly a straight over like Ashley shows at 0:50. You're either going left or you're going right. Or, all the way around, which is still right.
Cheers. Great video. Any chance you could do a video just on mini roundabouts, specifically the weird 'three way tie' that sometimes occurs and the best way to navigate it. Sorry if you've covered this previously.
I think the main thing to bear in mind when you arrive at one of those awkward mini roundabout standoffs is that ‘giving priority’ doesn’t mean ‘don’t proceed’. You are allowed to proceed when a car is approaching from your right, as long as doing so doesn’t cause them to change direction, brake or otherwise endanger them (no different to any other give way). So, if everyone is stationary at their respective roundabout entrances, it’s actually very easy to proceed without causing them to brake or change course. In other words, there’s nothing wrong with taking the initiative and proceeding carefully. Obviously there is a risk that one of the other vehicles may choose to do the same thing, but given that you’re all starting from a standstill and moving cautiously, it’s easy to deconflict.
There's a roundabout near me where people signal right to go "straight on" (the exit is about 11 o' clock - the left exit is a out 7) However, there is an exit on the right, over a bridge It makes it VERY confusing for pedestrians
I sometimes do this on my bicycle to discourage drivers from cutting me off at the first exit, road positioning also helps but sometimes drivers will still do it anyway from the righthand lane.
Where I live the more dangerous roundabout failure is the turn right from the left hand lane, even where road markings and signs clearly illustrate right hand lane. Even had the odd turning left from the right hand lane.
@EL JAY I agree there are some that can't follow that rule. For example there is a roundabout near me, 2 lanes, 4 exits and on one approach you can be in the left lane and go to the 3rd exit to the right, and the amount of accidents that happen as no one reads the sign and the drivers in the right lane come off the roundabout and cut back into the 1st lane, and normally beep at lane 1 drivers as most believe that the left lane cannot go to the right exit.All about reading the road and situation
Mini Roundabouts require drivers to slow down and the ones as in this video who drive over or even around them are normally impatient and travel to fast to negotiate the roundabout correctly. There’s a fixed penalty fine of £50-£300 for the offence and penalty points depending on severity.
I have a fair few years' experience driving buses as class 2 vehicles. I was always trained that on mini-roundabouts, you should avoid going over the white circle in the middle if possible. Understandably, for larger vehicles larger this isn't always possible, the rear end will cut across depending on length. If I remember correctly, this is a question on the theory test. Looking at 1:53 a long single-deck bus would require to take as much space as possible to the left if the van in the distance had reached the roundabout to avoid hitting the vehicle. I agree that the right indicator would be beneficial. My question is, who would be liable if the vehicles collided? I believe that the white car would be at fault because they drove over the circle in the centre rather than driving around the roundabout. Well done to the paramedic for reacting so quickly.
I've always done it, I've had friends in the car question or cristise me in the past for doing so. I just think it removes any ambiguity for the other road users to which way I'm going. Especially as on so many mini roundabouts people like to try and drive straight through them without slowing down or giving way.
On my journey home theres a large roundabout that I signal right for to go straight over. Because a lot of lorries use the roundabout and people often don't signal and then go left, meaning the lorry has to stop for no reason, so i always signal right on that roundabout to just confirm to any lorry drivers approaching that I am coming round the roundabout and they will need to stop to prevent any assumption that i maybe going left like most people.
People will still tend towards reading other people's road position over signalling, because a couple of tons of metal pointing in one direction tend to have bigger mental impact than a small blinking light. In many cases the mini roundabout layout causes this conflict because the only way to go around is to point the car at the left exit. This is particularly common where a junction is replaced by a mini roundabout; eg straight road with small access road on left, small access road gets expanded (ie new development) and roundabout added completely on left side of road because that is where the space is, all large vehicles go straight over painted circle because there is no way on earth they can make the tight turn required to go around, anybody positioning to go around is very likely to have the same situation as your viewer.
I am one of those driver that all other drivers hate me for using signals. The thing with me is, I don't always know the roads, I don't always know if someone is coming round a blocked corner in a car, bike or scooter. I don't know if the pedestrian knows the road markings at a junction when they want to cross. So I indicate. I even indicate when NO ONE ELSE IS VISIBLE YET. Some drivers use the left lane only to turn right because they feel their car is so big they need to make a wide turn, when all they have to do it turn the steering wheel a little more to make it tight. I indicate, I indicate, I indicate. They other problem about indication is those that indicate and forget to turn it off. Not Me. I indicate and then unindicate or indicate as I come to turn off a roundabout. I was going round indication, now I am exiting indication. I indicate. If my indicator lights were broken, I would use hand signals out of my window making sure no cyclist was over taking me the mad bugger.
I always thought it was driven by the sign for the roundabout, but mini roundabouts don't have those mostly. In the end though it's a judgement call whether you signal right when it's a very slight right. For me it would probably depend on whether it's the main flow or not. The reality I think is the white car honking and overtaking drove straight across the mini roundabout, would have probably done so anyway, and is a prat.
This makes me so glad we don't have a lot of roundabouts here in the US. Even in the UK where you're all supposed to be experts at roundabouts, people disagree over the correct way to signal or go through them. Personally, I think the white car at the beginning was wrong. He should have followed behind your viewer through the roundabout rather than overtake by driving through the center of it. At least here in the US we have a raised curb or other object in the middle of our roundabouts so that people have to follow each other through it and around and can't drive straight through.
There's a roundabout where I encourage my pupils to signal right for the second exit as not only is the roundabout a long way to the left, but people coming off the slip road from a dual carriageway can't easily see what lane people coming from the right are in. There's also a mini roundabout where I never used to signal left to take the first exit (it's a very slight angle), but once when I did so some bloke in a VW gestured angrily, so I always signal left there now. Annoyingly, at that particular mini roundabout many people coming from my right _don't_ signal for the very obvious left hand turn, so people are left sitting waiting for no reason.
I have this problem a lot as our road is half rural and half connected to an out of town shopping hub with a biggish island or two and several mini ones. A couple of the mini islands and the one big one are notorious accident spots. So I always signal right at the mini ones to avert an accident.
I always treat mini-roundabouts like giveway junctions in the sense that if you're arriving at it facing a kerb then you need to indicate to which side of it you're going. The only time you wouldn't indicate at a regular giveway junction would be if it's a crossroads and you're going straight ahead, when you'd be navigating it without any steering input. As soon as you have a give way line I disregard what road continues through it or was the former continuing road when it was a simple T (or similar) junction, which is the difference between a mini-roundabout and a curving major route with a secondary road joining on that curve, the 'T' junction you wouldn't indicate to turn around (when on the continuing road) or indicate on when going 'straight' (entering the secondary road), when you'd need to give way to another direction of traffic. The satnav instructions 'continue straight' probably prompted the lack of use of the indicator where their correctly applied roadcraft training would have read the road differently. Just because they've had that training doesn't mean they're applying it correctly in every scenario. They're only a more professional driver in the sense that they should know better when they make a 'common' mistake, or that they've let their standards slip further to have made a particular judgement call in a certain scenario than the 'average' driver doing the same thing. You've even analysed someone who supposedly passed the IAM test yet drove in a manner that would fail even the basic driving test. Those advanced tests are practically identical to the training emergency response drivers need to complete, minus the blue light exemptions, so that civilian has let their standards slip from practically the same level as this paramedic has been trained to. I think there's a fast-track course emergency response drivers can do that is 1 intensive week and the blue light part is the last day, only 1 day out of 6 I think is the blue light part, the rest is the same civilian advanced or Roadcraft principles, etc, and the only thing different is the occasionally increased speed under some flashing blue lights leading to a lot more overtaking and offside positioning. I haven't taken the advanced tests in either form, but I've done enough research into Roadcraft that I believe I could throw a set of blue lights on the roof of my car and drive in the same manner as a responding basic police officer (as traffic, firearms, etc go through additional training for TPAC, etc), paramedic, fire officer (car), lifeguard, rapid blood transport, etc as safely as the trained individual, even if I don't match their maximum potential progress in identical conditions (but still making use of all their exemptions). I'm in Northern Ireland if anyone wants to take me up on this, who can authorize use of blue lights obviously. :)
I would absolutely indicate right in such a scenario. There is a mini roundabout a couple of miles from me which i frequently use which isn't far off having all the exits be fairly equidistant from each other and thus the angles for each exit be about the same whichever direction the roundabout is approached from, and the number of people who don't indicate which results in a) people waiting for no reason or b) near misses due to people assuming non indicating drivers are taking the left turn is very high. I would arguably refer to it as a 'near-miss black spot' due how often near misses can or do occur, yet I've somehow never seen an RTC or the aftermath of one there!
I would and then i would indicate left to show i am coming off of that exit. It seems the old technique of indicating left when you've passed the junction before your exit is a lost art.
My Theory about whether or not to signal right on approach to a roundabout imagine at the approach to the roundabout that you've drawn a line through the roundabout straight where you car would go,on a clock face we approach from 6,o'clock at the bottom and 12,o'clock being at the top,if you exit is PAST 12'OCLOCK then signal right on approach and then signal left when leaving just after the exit before the exit you are taking so if going right 3rd exit then signal just after the 2nd exit paying particular attention to the left mirror when leaving.On mini roundabouts try and make eye contact with drivers at the exit before the one you are taking when leaving with the appropriate signal with correct speed and road position so to confirm your intentions.
In most cases the layout of the junction forces you to think of it as a proper roundabout, the problem comes where they have done nothing to change the road layout and just slapped a bit of white paint in the middle and expect that everyone will behave like it is a round about.
When I trained to be a ADI and blue lights in another life I was told that if the exit is after 12 o’clock based on you approaching at 6 then indicate. Also the white vehicles position leaves a lot to be desired.
Whether at a mini or midi roundabout, the turn signal is a *COMMUNICATION* medium, not only for the following vehicle, but also for oncoming traffic, cyclists and pedestrians waiting to cross any one of the AND as the means to encourage other drivers to slow down to a reasonable speed before they enter the roundabout. Essentially, the turn signal indicates an intended 'change in direction'; e.g. [straight or RIGHT] OR intended NOT a change in direction [LEFT]. *For single lane, 4-way, roundabout* *Going STRAIGHT ahead* One should use the RIGHT turn signal to: 1. indicate one is NOT intending to turn LEFT, so that a pedestrian on the left knows they can cross the left exit to the median strip or middle of the road; 2. indicate one is NOT intending to turn LEFT, so that a pedestrian elsewhere on the roundabout knows they can potentially cross the nearest exit to the median strip or middle of the road; 3. indicate to oncoming traffic that one MIGHT be turning RIGHT across their path to encourage them to slow down before entering the roundabout. Next, when one has entered the roundabout and is adjacent to the LEFT exit, one then cancels the RIGHT turn signal and uses the LEFT turn signal to indicate one is intending to change direction to take the next exit (in the straight ahead direction). The only caveat here (as Ashley says) is whether the LEFT turn signal is ON long enough to benefit other traffic. *The Australian Rules say that one must signal LEFT to exit, but only if appropriate for the circumstances.* Oncoming traffic then sees that they need not expect you to cross their path, so they can continue into the roundabout taking note of other traffic. *Turning RIGHT* 1. The RIGHT turn signal remains ON until one nears the exit one intends to take, at which time, one uses the LEFT turn signal to indicate a change of direction for ALL traffic and ALL pedestrians. *Turning LEFT* Really needs no further explanation. *For maxi, multi-lane, 4-way or more, roundabouts* One indicates all changes in direction from entering the roundabout to crossing other lanes to set up one's exit. If one botches the crossing of other lanes, then go-around again until one gets it right. Obviously, there are no places for pedestrians to cross.
I was going to say, I judge each scenario on its own merits. But I check for flow of traffic and if required I will enforce a left signal if the road is going straight on or partially left.
As you said give signals where they are benefitial. Conversely don't give one if it's of no use or confusing. We have a normal roundabout by us with 5 exits at 6,9,11,1 and 3 o'clock. The road is wide enough to accomodate 2 cars going round the roundabout and if I'm entering at 6 o'clock and leaving at 3 I give a right signal, but if I'm leaving at 1 o'clock I don't as people coming from the 11 o'clock will often be taking the 1st exit for them, so my 1 o'clock and if I signal right in thise circumstances they then think I'm leaving at 3 o'clock, not 1 so are liable to pull out. I've even had it happen to me when I didn't signal right when leaving at 1 o'clock (in both cases I approach the RAB in the right hand lane as I'm taking the 3rd exit which is past 12 o'clock if that makes sense and there's no lane markings on the RAB at all).
I have driven through that junction in Bentley many times I actually took the same route as the viewer a couple of days ago, it never used to have a roundabout there, the council added it in an effort to calm traffic due to the shops and the crossings it seems unnecessary with all the annoying speed bumps in the area. Its very rare you see anyone take the same line as the viewer around it (notice the black car 2 cars behind), I would not use a right hand signal on aproach that would indicate that I would be effectively doing a U turn, neither would I use a left signal to leave as there is no other way to go and the 2nd exit is too close to the 1st. Although they technically drove correctly, I believe it is the viewers road positioning and left signal that confused the driver behind, also take note there is a right turning immediately after. Its a daft little island in my opinion another one of Walsall councils stupid ideas/poor planning and unwillingness to spend their extortion tax correctly.
Most of those roundabout examples I would consider a fork in the road controlled by a roundabout so a signal to state whether you're going left or right is warranted. In regards to the clip I would say that the white Ford was simply impatient and took a chance presented to them to get past. The camera car goes a bit too wide for my taste they could have hugged the middle more without cutting. By going wider they gave the impression of turning left. So both could have done a lot better in that instance.
Yes, I would right signal there, because although strictly I wouldn't be going more than half way around the roundabout; I would be in relation to the majority of the road leading to it.
You should always do this. I thought this was standard practice tbh but I drive in London where you really do have to let people know where you’re going!
Totally agree with what you said Ashley, especially regarding analysing each situation and decided on its own merit. I use a particular mini roundabout every day, where I always take the exit ahead. I try and drive round it as you should, never indicate of course, but I have been overtaken and vehicles pull out on me from the left. These drivers either, blow their horn, flash their headlights or make rude hand signals at me. Because of this i am very vigilant as to what is happening behind and to the left and just deal with and try not to react.
The lack of paint on that mini and the angle of the exit I'd consider it a high chance that people straight line it, hence I'd always indicate if someone was behind (and some would still probably overtake!).
I used to drive buses and there is one particular mini island that I hated. I could sit there for a good 5 minutes waiting to go straight on (slightly right) but because people don’t signal you can’t just rush out without the fear of someone hitting you or you cutting them up as the buses weren’t very fast moving off. I tend to signal left or right at most mini roundabouts.
In the first roundabout, the car coming from the other way, was at roundabout before you, and could have entered the roundabout before, you were taking the right exit so you should have put the signal on. The second roundabout had no traffic so no signal is needed. The more signals you show the better, right signals are most important, and a left signal may only be short and sometimes not beneficial, but get in the habit, no harm and can prevent confusion, and increase better flow. The guy who overtook was travelling at speed and would have most probably overtook even if the road was straight. x The Bigfella x
I would generally say, if it's only 3 exit mini roundabout I'd generally signal every time, unless there is nothing else around. If it's a 4 way, I'd signal as if it's a crossroads, even if straight ahead is technically a slight right!! In your first clip, definitely signal is a good idea, if anything is around. As a bus driver I find it really frustrating when people don't signal, or signal incorrectly, which plenty of my colleagues do too!!!
Some good advice. I signal at every roundabout and corner. I even signal when I am in a left or right turn only lane, so even pedestrians know my intentions. I drove for twenty years in Canada and they have two excellent driving regulations. When you are at a crossroad and turning you drive to the nearest lane and, when safe, move into the inside lane. Also you should be able to turn left, if safe to do so, on a red light. Instead of sitting there idling and polluting for no reason.
Here in NSW, Aust., the rules say you must indicate right (& left) on roundabouts, even with these type of small ones. The rules even require you to indicate as you exit, but so many drivers neglect to! (It's usually only one or two flashes for me on the mini-roundabouts.) As for driving over the top, you'll be pulled over & fined (unless you're driving a truck or bus that's too long to negotiate the intersection)!
Good vid. I indicate on roundabouts mainly to avoid cars pulling out on me, I hadn't considered the case of cars coming from the rear but I suspect I'd know the car was going over the roundabout in some cases but perhaps not in others. Shows the value of a rear view dashcan too in a prang the other car I would hope would be at fault and not a 50:50.
Regarding 3 entrance/exit mini-roundabouts: Unless dealing with a roundabout that is basically a T junction with first exit on the left then a right signal is useful. It’s a clear display particularly to first exit cars that you’re at least going past them. In the clip, the geezer from behind chose to go over and exit the roundabout on the wrong side of the road. A right signal may have mitigated that (MAY have) but honestly I don’t think that in itself is a reason for a right signal. The car behind gave plenty of clues they would try to push past. Quickly catching and other viewers noted they went straight over the previous roundabout (albeit that is with benefit of rear facing camera. For that specific reason I pay specific attention to the vehicles behind in my rear and right mirrors once on a mini roundabout of any kind.
I was taught (20 years ago) that you don't need to go all of the way around a mini roundabout that's just painted (nothing raised or different surface). Don't cut the corner definitely but also don't worry about touching the white dot. It just indicates priority. The lane markings at the entry are much more important, however, and here the markings are clearly leading you to go round properly and that's the important thing. I voted that the white car would have tried the overtake regardless. But I think I would have interpreted a right signal there as a u-turn.
The important thing with any signalling is to be clear about your intentions, so other road users can have no doubt about where you are intending to go. There are several 3-way mini-roundabouts near me, and I always signal either right or left on the approach, so it is clear to everyone which exit I am taking.
Always thought: on a mini roundabout if you need to take the first exit anticlockwise use a right signal even if that road is straight ahead, and if you need to take the first exit clockwise use a left signal, again, even if that road is straight ahead. Many other drives around my area do the same too, especially if that mini roundabout is usually busy.
In Sweden, you only have to signal as you leave the roundabout and change lanes within it. You´re a nice driver if you signal before you enter. Fail to signal as you exit roundabout you're hit with a fine of about £40. People "forget" to signal if they're heading straight. But most roundabouts are large with a huge bump in the middle, so theres actually no way for cars on the other side of it to know where you initially came from...
We have a mini roundabout near us which was a T junction to the right before. The majority of the traffic comes from the right therefore sometimes its a wait for you to be able to get out. So if I am going straight on I indicate left (bearing in mind there is no left junction) so if the vehicle from opposite me is going straight on they know they can come cross and this assists me by stopping the traffic from my right. If I am turning right I will always indicate my intention. Unfortunately not enough drivers treat them as roundabouts.
Couldn’t agree with you more, Ashley. Indication, or not, should be used as conditions and traffic demand. They should be used, or not, to maximise communicating to other road users your intentions and to deter unsavoury driving practices of those around you. This goes far further than blindly indicating as per the Highway Code. Many a time I’ve gone cold when I’ve seen a motorbike or other vehicle signal left for a road junction when there has been a vehicle immediately before that junction waiting to emerge from, say, a filling station! This is a case of not being situationally aware and signalling simply because it’s a left turn junction. In these tricky cases, care and consideration needs to be taken as to any emerging vehicle that could misinterpret your signal, and other vehicles in the vicinity, both following and oncoming. Use speed, positioning, brake lights also to “control” the situation and think for everyone.
188 Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this. Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)
We have a ridiculous mini roundabout near me that is so off set that if you were to go around it to go straight ahead which is actually slightly to the right, you almost end up having to do a turn in the road (if you point your vehicle facing that exit on the approach the roundabout is actually fully over to the left and you would pass it on the right if you went for the exit. For this reason I do cut it slightly as everyone would assume you were going left if you were to try and go fully round. Even then it would get so tight you'd cut it with the rear of your vehicle. I wish the council would have painted the roundabout just 4 or 5 feet to the other side (it's easily wide enough).
