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Slope Shouldered Dread ?? Jumbo ??

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OK, I admit it, I'm a bit tetchy about descriptions of guitar designs.
I mean what IS a "parlour" and why are semi - hollow electric guitars called Arch-tops?
Anyway, this is just one such rant and as always I'd appreciate your comments.

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6 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 38

@georgecrighton 6 месяцев назад

I have a Santa Cruz RS slope shouldered jumbo, an Iris Smeck model slope shouldered jumbo, and a Santa Cruz D12 slope shouldered Dread. The largest of those guitars is the IRIS. The body is slightly larger and slightly deeper than the Santa Cruz RS. Iris guitars are bench made in a small shop in Burlington, VT. I prefer the look of sloped shouldered guitars instead of the square shouldered ones like my Martin OM28 -- AND 12 fretters really rock!

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Thanks George, for describing your guitars that way!

@longjonwhite 6 месяцев назад

They are both very shiny! Hope this helps.

@longjonwhite 6 месяцев назад

Sorry Andy, I didn’t mean to be facetious mate. I had written a long, almost sensible response and before I could post it, I somehow deleted it… I’m too tired now…. Nurse! Have the visitors been?

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi Jon, your contributions are always welcomed, but clear it up now!

@firecrackerheart 6 месяцев назад

i empathize with the "rant" regarding flat top guitar nomenclature and marketing descriptors; and just how convoluted their classification can become. it'd be a perfect world where all makers adhere to a universal standard, so that when i read an advertisement or a feature for an OM, i know that i'm getting into a martin 14-fret 000 body size with a 25.4" scale length and 1.75" nut. that being said, i'm such an obsessive for all-things-guitars (let's face it, flat top steel string acoustics) nowadays that when i see odd configurations and variations from the "universal norms" of body size, shape, scale length, etc etc, i get really curious and downright excited to suss out the eccentricities. lately, i've been really curious about those el cheap-o catalog guitars from chicago & new york from the turn of the last century, not to mention odd-ball italian flat tops and on and on. by-the-way, that collings has killer, and very balanced, tone for such a behemoth!

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi again, BTW I have not forgotten your suggestion about a video about Guitar jargon and this is just a part of it.

@texhaines9957 6 месяцев назад

I guess I like slope shoulder guitars, especially 12-fret guitars. Gibson doesn't make a 12-fret SJ-200 but Kevin Kopp of Bozeman MT does. My favorite dreadnoughts now are a Martin Custom Shop D-28 12-fret VTS Adirondack and East Indian Rosewood and Eastman E22SS-V-sb (Adirondack with Maple). They all have different voices for different songs. I also like a Martin Custom Shop 00-28 12-fret. Hope you have a good one Andy.

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi Tex, the SJ 200 design, is, of course a Super Jumbo rather than a Jumbo, like your Eastman E22SS-V-sb. Best, Andy

@texhaines9957 6 месяцев назад

@SillyMoustache actually the Eastman E22SS-V-sb is like a J-45. I have a J-45 banner (1942 remake). Also a different voice Thanks Andy

@nicolen.9642 6 месяцев назад

Slope shouldered dreadnoughts look better. Some dreads have really square shouldered upper bouts. They're way too cumbersome for my petite size. I have a 000 Martin and two parlor size. I figure you're a Collings man! Always a pleasure to watch your videos, Andy. Have a peaceful weekend!🎶

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi, I agree, but prefer the original design because it is more ergonomic, and better balanced even though the body is slightly longer. I was a "Martin man" from around 1970 until 1999 and only went to Collings because I needed the wider fretboard which was a Martin pattern but I couldn't find one. I also have a 12 fret 000, a 00 and a size 0 . Thanks for watching!

@Saladzingers 6 месяцев назад

Yes, to me now jumbo means something like SJ200. Like you, I was much more impressed by and drawn to Martins or interpretations of Martin designs, and have nothing but love for my D18. However, I recently had the opportunity to try a special edition Gibson 12 fret J45, a lovely rich sunburst, only 44 made in this run apparently... well, it is a delight, and I now own it. For sale locally, from a trusted acquaintance. Sometimes opportunities fall into your lap!

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi again, Your first sentence makes my point for me - the SJ200 isn't a jumbo, but a "Super" Jumbo. I hope you enjoy the 12 fret J45!

@joelgevirtz6181 6 месяцев назад

Each one has different sonic characteristics. Both are cool as far as I am concerned. both will play very well and can be used for both fingerstyle and flatpicking. I guess it's a matter of what one likes. I would take either one. Probably after playing each for a while each one would tell me what it liked best.

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Yeah Joel, it wasn't really about the tone, but the confusion of naming them. The original dread was introduced in 1931 -1933. The 14 fret then neck dread, AND the original Jumbo both appeared in 1934 as rhythm instruments. It is only my guess, but I think the Jumbo shape was closely modelled on the original (12 fret) Dreadnought. Thanks as always.

@johnwashburn3793 6 месяцев назад

Hello Andy, when I think of a slope shoulder dreadnought, a Gibson J-35 usually comes to mind. Your Santa Cruz does provide a perfect visual, but I imagine it is true grand. It probably shouldn't be compared to the Gibson, in my opinion. Your Collins looks very similar to my D-18GE Martin, then 934 model. When I think of a jumbo, it once again is a Gibson. Either a aj 200 or J 185. Round and curvy with a tight waist (like my wife). These are typically great srrummers. These are my thoughts, for all of the algorithm points they are worth. Keep the guitars humidified and the carpets dry. Take care

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi John, my point is that the J-35 style is NOT a dreadnought - it is a jumbo, and the SJ200 is a Super Jumbo and I think matters got confused when Gibson dropped the "Super" for J200s and the like. Gibson's main focus was the Archtops, but copied Martin with the Jumbo (J35/45) when they brought out the 14 fret dread in 1934. Your Martin is the 1934 14 fret square shouldered design, not the original dreadnought. My regards to yuor wife.

@johnwashburn3793 6 месяцев назад

@SillyMoustache Yes, your posts is well made and valid. I do know that the "J" in J 35 is for jumbo, but, as was stated in another comment, they are often compared to a D-18 in videos. On another note, Norman's Rare Guitars does a Guitar of the Day video. Last evening (midnight your time) they had a 1938 Gibson Roy Shmeck..(with round V neck. I had just watched your video and I thought you might enjoy seeing it. The guitar is for sale of course and listed on Reverb. I thought you might be curious. You had asked what comes to mind, and I answered. I had not studied for the quiz. Enjoy your day.

@johnwashburn3793 6 месяцев назад

Your point is well made

@markharwood7573 6 месяцев назад

Parlour is just small. 12-fret is good but not essential; similarly, the slotted headstock. I would call my Framus 5/50 a parlour archtop. A hollow electric is simple, but one with a bar that runs from the neck to the end of the lower bout is, perhaps confusingly, a semi-acoustic. A semi-hollow is basically a solid electric with hollow chambers. That's how I see it anyway. It's disappointing to see electro-acoustics advertised as semi-acoustics so often, but it's easy to see why it happens. As for dreads and jumbos, the nomenclature has settled well enough. Dreads have only a slight waist and jumbos have the Mae West thing happening. The J-45 is a slope-shoulder dread, not a jumbo any more.

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi Mark, obviously we have differing views. I am a total Acoustic guitar nerd so have studied the developments over, mostly the 20th century - so seemingly, we differ. I have spoken elsewhere about the purpose of Martin sizes - i.e. 2,1,0 (concert, 00 grand concert, and the 000 Auditorium, based on venue size. "Parlour" is like others a lazy and often mis-used term. Not aware of your Framus until now, and not so familiar with electrics. We'll agree to differ regarding the dread/Jumbo issue, but it seems that I am in the minority, so maybe you are in the majority. Do you drive a Ford Beetle or a VW Kuga?

@markharwood7573 6 месяцев назад

@@SillyMoustache No I don't! Going to ponder that one. So, what I call a dreadnought, you would call a jumbo? I'm just going along with the labels that the makers use now, I suppose. You know far more about the history of guitars than I ever shall, that's for sure. Thanks for the videos, it looks as though I am far from being alone in enjoying them.

@susanroycroft89 6 месяцев назад

Hi Andy, just 'ole' Don here from Hamilton NZ, I love your videos AND you're slope/Shoulder 12's, I just recently bought a Yamaha cutaway ( with the small amp.an' speaker inside) OH wow What a Magical Sound it's giving, I had to sell a Martin to get it, however I already have another ( an HPL cutaway) but the Yamaha, with its 3 controls on the shoulder- Delay, Reverb,Hall,Chorus settings, I'm thoroughly enjoying. Yamaha's new TRANS-ACOUSTIC, I play albatross, etc.and that little bit of Delay is really nice, kind regards Don

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi Don, do you prefer my Dreads of my Jumbo?

@mojo6778 6 месяцев назад

Andy, howdy from Texas!! I love both of those guitars, they are exceptional, yet very different guitars. I have a Gibson Advanced Jumbo, 14 fret, and a Bourgeois DS custom 12 fret dreadnought. I just checked and both have the same size body. I know Gibson refers to their J series slope shoulder guitars as jumbo, but they are always compared to Martin square shoulder dreadnoughts. When I think of jumbo, I picture a Gibson J-200 or Martin J-40 or M-36 body size guitar. 🤠

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi again, I used to have a Bourgeois DS260 - beautiful guitar, sadly Bourgeois necks just don't suit my hands. The body was slightly smaller than an original (i.e., 12 fret dread). The SJ200, J-40 etc are modelled on the Super Jumbo pattern hence all the confusion. Thanks for watching.

@steveshaffer150 6 месяцев назад

Hello Andy: I appreciate your videos and this one spoke to me in particular, as I own 2 Gibson J-45s, each with different tonewoods. The slope-shoulder shape makes them comfortable to play for long periods and the depth of the body gives volume and richness. Seeing as you are playing 12 fret dreads these days, I have a question. What in your experience are the advantages of the 12 fret design? Does it offer something unique and valuable tone-wise that the 14 fret lacks? I'm curious about this and value your input.

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi steve, thank you for your interest. I made a video about this back in 2017, when I was still recovering from throat cancer treatment and a bit of a "mess". So I thought an current update might be useful, so I intend to make an updated and more "ordered" response to answer your (and others) interest in this. It will be a somewat more ordered. I do need to say that my preference is a personal one and I do not try to suggest that it is a solution for anyone else. I hope to put it up on RU-vid next Friday, and as always, I'd welcome your comments after viewing it. Thanks for watching.

@silvel2edge 6 месяцев назад

Have you ever tried any of Yamaha’s dreadnoughts? If so, i’m curious what you think? Similarly, have you tried Boucher? I just tried one today and was really impressed.

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Hi back in the '80s I played a Yamaha 12 string, but never owned a Yamaha 6 string. Some are very good. Boucher are known to me but are not common in the UK, and I've not played one. Thanks for watching.

@robmiller3464 6 месяцев назад

I occasionally follow you Andy, but lately the videos have been inconsequential as to informative subject matter. Curious to know because of your analytical prowess why you always play in 1st position mostly. So much great real estate left. I try to cover the entire neck because different songs demand it at times, and if sound and ergonomics of a 12 fret guitar attract you, why not have one with a cutaway to have access to the 14th fret on occasion. I’m aware of scale length, bracing and sound hole placement because of 12 fret guitars, but so many benefits to opening up the options of a 12 fret cutaway or having just one 14 fret acoustic. No big deal but if I personally owned more than 5 guitars, at least 1 would be a cutaway or 14 fret for sure. Those are nice dread’s though!

@SillyMoustache 6 месяцев назад

Dear Rob, thank you for your comments. I'm sorry that you feel that my recent videos are "inconsequential", but you pose some questions which I my use to respond in a video at some point, but as I respond to most comments asap ,you deserve a response here. Let's break it down : 1. Why do I always play 1st position chord shapes? a) I'm a singer who plays guitar, not the other way around. b) I play acoustic guitars - which sound best with open strings of first position shapes. c) I'm not fond of barre chordings. d) my style is to find the melodies out of,mainly, but not exclusively 1st position shapes. 2. Why not have cutaways? a) because I dislike the aesthetics b) because I don't think the best sounds comes from above the 12th. c) Because I don't need them. 3. As I have stated before in videos, the reason for my preference for 12 fretters is about nut & fretboard width. 1 & 13/16" nut to 2 & 3/8" string spacing is my ideal. 4. 14 fret guitars ? I have three archtops but don't use them much, hence the sale of my '34 Gibson. None have cutaways! Sadly, you seem to have missed my point that the Collings is a dreadnought (Original design) and the Santa Cruz is a Jumbo. I hope that answers your comments and thanks for the idea for another video.

@robmiller3464 6 месяцев назад

@@SillyMoustache thanks for your immediate response. It must have been difficult for you personally to answer my basic questions. Been a player for a plethora of years and based on my question’s, I would never have predicted those odd and eccentric answers. Just didn’t make logical sense to me, but that’s ok it’s your channel and your video so I respect that. Thanks anyway Andy.