Slowest Velocity Bullets Will Expand At - Season 2: Episode 66 

The young fella that is 23 and just trying to break into hunting brings me back. I was about his age when I started hunting. I was fortunate to have a friend who hunted all his life that asked me if I'd like to go with him. I bought my first rifle, and have been hunting ever since.

For newbies, I think the biggest confusing thing is knowing where you can hunt. Public lands are very confusing in many places.

Ron, I've been shooting since I was maybe 16 or 17, a gun owner since I was 19 and a reloader since I was 22. I'm now 50 years past that. In all that time, I have never really hunted. It's just a box that I never could check off. Why not? Because I wanted a mentor, as you suggest. I took a hunter safety course (with a guy who said he knew Elmer Keith, so it was a while ago!), i have suitable rifles and handguns in suitable cartridges, and even got an out of state license for a Wyoming elk hunt. But I never went elk hunting, or anything else. For one reason or another, it just never worked out. Potential mentors let me down. I lost my job and had to save money at that point in time. I really regret not being able to join your fraternity. I looked forward to endless "arguments" of big bullets vs slow, which powders to use, looked forward to the camping and chatting around fires, and listening to the myriad of "experts" who I would listen to with a handful, not just a pinch, of salt. My loss.

Would love to see a hunting series, especially from the star for new hunters who might be on a limited budget and what they actually need to get started and limitations. And a progression on "want to have" equipment that will decrease those limitations. I couldn't imagine just trying to start hunting at 18 yrs. old with no one to guide you throughout the process like my father did. Especially with the overwhelming amount of info out there. Straightforward and easy to comprehend series would be a 👍 great idea.

I think "becoming a whitetail hunter" series is a great idea!

Remember! In "the old days", the ammunition was corrosive. We bought a 7.65mm War Mauser that hadn't been cleaned and then stored in back of somebody's closet. The bore was so rusted we couldn't even see light at the other end. But, it came clean! Still shoots great.

Silverjack. Don't know if anyone mentioned it but nothing beats good books/print magazines(too bad they're dying off) and time in the woods, any woods, without a gun. You won't be distracted with hunting, you learn how to move, read sign, know animal rhythms, food cycles, life cycles etc. and play basically. It's the single most effective thing you can do to learn animals. If you have books you can always reference them and books teach you to be still, quiet, and curious all necessary for the woods. Videos are great but in no way teach patience and questioning. Shoot almost forgot! A handy cam can substitute for a weapon in the off season. Get one then find and sneak close to animals to film them. Helps to watch animals be animals too.

chen you mentioned those magazines, I had to comment. The early Outdoor Life, Field and Stream and Sports Afield had some great writers and great stories. I even liked the way the magazines were laid out. There was Jack O'Conner, Ben East, Bill Jorden and Elmer Keith to name a few. I was looking through a recent magazine and started reading an article on a firearm only to realize that it was a commercial. LOL. I go on E-bay and get those magazines from the late 1950's to early 1970's Great reading. And how about the Klein's full page add. Well to end, You sir, are right in with those great writers. Keep up the good work.

GunBlue is extremely legit, love his channel.

Hunt naked, got it. Thanks Ron 😂

Two comments. First on gun cleaning, an end of season full clean and light oiling to prevent rust before you put it away for ten months if you only shoot during hunting seasons is good practice. And second on new hunters learning. Back in the day I found Jack O'Connors' "The hunting rifle" book a great store of valuable information. It is a bit dated today (1970) as things like lazer range finders had not been invented yet but you can still find a copy on the internet but it will cost you as much as two boxes of magnum ammunition. The paperback version sold in 1975 cost $5.95. Do you know of any book that picks up where Jack left off that covers the last fifty years of innovations and "wonder cartridges"?

Great Q&A Ron. The history of cartridge development is a lot of fun to study and there were a lot of interesting people doing some unusual experiments to advance ballistics. Thank you for the video.

Mr.Spoomer, Thanks for your excellent information. I appreciate much your good prononciation . It helps me a lot because English is not my mother tongue and my ears getting old.

Your absolutely right Ron , Sometimes a person feels stupid asking questions but the saying ( there are no stupid questions) comes to mind? What is stupid is not understanding something and being afraid to ask!

And another point. The government went to 30 caliber for the 30-03 and the 30-06 because the arsenal had the 30 caliber barrel making tools for the 30-40 Craig and only had to change reamers instead of starting from scratch for 7mm barrels.

Gunblue490 is a good dude. I enjoy his ramblings often. As man of 43 I realize that folks of his generation are dying everyday. Those folks are highly valued by me. Knowledge AND experience. Not only that, but I just flat out enjoy those folks.

You saying the gauge does not matter reminded me of when I went Dove hunting with my father in the '60s. He was using a twelve gauge and dropping Doves with every shot. I was using a four-ten and hitting nothing. He was teasing me and I said he was only doing so well because he had the twelve gauge. So he swapped with me and I hit a few doves, but he still dropped a dove with every shot! He then said; it's not the gun son. It's knowing when and where to shoot.

I vote yes on the How to hunting videos

The first source for a new hunter should be the Wildlife/Natural Resource agency of the place they want to hunt. It will tell them what is legal to take game with there. For example, some places allow hunting turkey with rifles and handguns, while others are shotgun only, some specify what minimum and maximum gauge or caliber may be used on which game. They will also host or refer the person to the required Hunter Education even before they purchase a firearm or license. Once one knows those requirements and limitations of where they plan to hunt and what they plan to hunt, then they start with some broad information and then may seek out other "refinement" as to the tools they need to take afield.

Gunblue490 is a wealth of knowledge, just like Ron.

Just to add a little bit to Ron's great explanation on shotguns is the increasing of load weight (3/4 oz., 7/8 oz., 1 1/8 oz., etc) is often accompanied by an increase in felt recoil. For example, a 12 gauge shooting a 1 1/8 or greater load vs. a 20 gauge at 7/8 will have a greater felt recoil (disregarding a typically heavier gun). Some is a difference in powder load, but most is just the increased mass of the shot load. I mention because this is also a factor with new shooters - finding the sweet spot between being effective for a new shooter on game (maximized pellet count) vs how much recoil the new shooter can tolerate without flinching or other shot anticipation. A 20 gauge is just as effective as a 12, kicks less (usually), but has less pellet density due to the smaller charge.

Yes I would like to see more of the how to video...

Just a little bit to add to the gentleman that was asking about cleaning. I think originally it was more important because of corrosive Powder. corrosive powders if you're in a foreign country or using foreign ammunition that still has corrosive powders cleaning Is essential

Finally a shotgun "shot review!"

Hi Ron. Dennis here. I wanted to touch base with you on some of the 270 Winchester loads I've been developing lately. Last week I had a chance to take my Weatherby Vanguard 270 with a 24 inch barrel out and test some loads. Well to say the least I am impressed. I started with Staball 6.5 54.5grns and Hornady 130 SSTs, it did 3026fps. Next was the same powder and bullet with 55.5grns. It did 3098fps. Very accurate loads too. Then I went up to 56.5grns same bullet and powder it did 3177fps. Accurate as well. I then went up to the 140 SSTs with 54.5 grns of staball 6.5. It did 3025fps. I didn't load anything more on the 140s due to time constraints. But I did go to 58grns of H-4831 and 130SSTs. it did 3150fps. Then I loaded up some of the Hornady 145eldx Bullets and 58 grains of RL-22. Those were very impressive. It did 3167fps. Very accurate sub MOA loads on all. These will be great for Deer Hunting and even possibly Elk. I've not yet finished the 27 inch Barrel 1-9 twist 270 I told you about. But hopefully I'll get it done in the next couple of months. As I told you before I've been load developing and testing on many Cartridges for over 50+ years. And If there's one thing I've learned is that the 270 must have a longer barrel. I'm looking forward to going Deer and Elk Hunting. I'm going to be doing more load developing on the 270 so we'll see how she does. Oh, I hope if other's want to use these Recipe's I've done here they realize that every gun is different so I can't be responsible for anything that happens. As alway's start low and work your way up. Thanks again for the great videos.

What pleasure to listen to this Man. Such a wealth of knowledge.👍👍

One big thing i wish he would talk about is black powder and corrosive primes. in both cases you need to clean after every use. you actually use water to dissolve the salts and flush them out. if you fire one round of black powder and leave it it will rust!!!

Make the video series on becoming a white tail deer hunter !

What is your best guess as to why the 27 calibers are not called 7mm and the 7s call something else.

That question about a bullet that expands well at subsonic velocities is best asked of bullet manufacturers. Hornady Customer Service And Speer customer service would be happy to answer that question with a reply from someone in that department.

I believe silverjack would benefit from reading Jack Occoners “the hunting rifle” Also keep catching the RSO uploads, welcome silverjack to the world of hunting, enjoy !

Hey Ron, when you mentioned you have been thinking about makeing an introductory series to hunting i stoped in my tracks. All i can say is… YES YES YES and Please! I have been listening to your podcasts and watching your videos for some time now, with interest in learning how to hunt, but it seems no one has made a good introduction. It would be supper cool if you made one, as I know it would be great!

You said the original military loading of the 30-06 was a 150 gr at 2800 to 2900 fps. Wasn't it 2700 fps?

Hornady Sub-X 175 & 190 gr. bullets are great subsonics I load with that open and mushroom properly down to 900 FPS. There are many other manufacturers that are starting to make subsonic designed bullets, so search around and you can find them. The 175 gr. are nice if you don't have a fast twist .30 cal, like a .308 in 1-10 twist or 30-06. If you try to shoot the 190's without a 1-8 twist, you will be destabilizing the bullet. Remember also that Sub-sonics are starting below the speed of sound, so they don't pass through the unstable point when it drops from supersonic to subsonic speed called the transonic zone. The nice thing is those that are subsonic don't slow down as much due to avoiding the high drag point that comes above the speed of sound.

I'm impressed that you had a picture of my all time favorite bullet for hunting Elk and large mule deer, the Swift Scirocco. I've killed many elk and mule deer with the 180 grn out of my 300 wm at ranges out to 500 yds. over the 30 years I've shot both. Super expansion, weight retention and devastating results on game! The Swift A-frame is basically a Partition on steroids. It is bonded as well as partitioned with a heavier jacket. A well suited choice for larger game such as bison and moose! Love the videos!

I enjoy your videos thanks. Nicely presented and interesting. Regarding cleaning a rifle. I grew up with an ex-military .303 British and military full metal jacket ammo that used corrosive primers. So I was drilled to always clean and oil the barrel after shooting. I always appreciated .22 rimfires because we could shoot them then set them aside to grab quickly when we wanted to shoot again. In my comparatively recent years, I started to use non-corrosive centrefire ammo in modern sporting rifles... some with stainless barrels. I started to leave them for several days or even a month between cleaning the barrel. But then I left a suppressor screwed on my .223's stainless barrel. This is a rifle I've been using regularly... maybe three times a week for several months as I try to control pests. I took the suppressor off to give the rifle an inspection and found that there was some serious erosion/corrosion around the muzzle. Some of it looked like marine electrolysis and it had crept down into the rifling. So... I've started to remove my suppressors after shooting, and I've started to clean barrels more regularly. It seems that at least some stainless steel is possibly not a lot different to standard blued steel barrel material. Expansion of subsonic bullets. I've been playing with suppressed subsonics for a while. The terminal performance on game is mostly disappointing compared to high speed hunting projectiles.. I understand there are special (expensive) projectiles available in some places which are designed to open at velocities below the speed of sound. However finding any projectile where I am currently is a challenge, let alone special projectiles. I've been casting bullets and experimenting with them in a .357 rifle. I have not observed any significant expansion at subsonic velocities, even with very soft lead. Sometimes a subsonic 'rig' is the sensitive thing to use in some hunting situations. A subsonic bullet can still be very effective (even without expansion) if it hits the right spot. You can go 'pre-expanded' by shooting a 44 or 45 caliber bullet, but even then it won't always have impressive results unless you hit the brain, spine, maybe the 'hilar' region where the main 'wiring' is around the top of the heart, and/or major bones. We used to drop a lot of deer, pigs and goats with full metal jacket military ammo, but not if we hit it in the gut area. I hear a lot of people say that 'it was a good shot... it only ran 100 yards'... I'd prefer something to drop on the spot or within a few yards, and I observed this often with hunters who placed their full metal jackets in a good location. Just my thoughts. Best wishes from Nelson, New Zealand.

A whitetail hunting series would be fantastic!

Jack, you should also reach out to your states “game and fish department “ or similar. They are named different in each state. They usually offer classes. Hunter safety, small game tactics, applying for draws, and they can also give good advice on game locations and basic tactics.

Make 8 Gauge great again.

In the military we probably cleaned our rifles so often because they had to find something for us to do. NO sitting around. LOL Now days I clean the bolt and chamber, but once a barrel is fouled in you have accuracy. Most of us buy mass produced factory rifles. It can take 10 shots or more to foul the barrel and get max accuracy. Don't clean your barrel and then go hunting. I only clean the barrel after hunting season or if I'm not going to shoot a rifle for a long time. I don't think there are any rules set in stone though. We all have opinions. That's it. If you like cleaning your rifle, then clean it.

Thx Ron, good tips

I wonder if cleaning after every use comes from the blackpowder era and the volatility of the propellant.

Let's get more into the 16 gage and make it popular again!!!

I trust your knowledge and your videos are very Interesting and helpful I’ve learned a lot from you thanks for all your knowledge

That video series would be great. I'm sure it would help many people

How to Hunting videos 👌 went quite a few times as a kid but I’m 28 now and getting back into it but it’s hard to find someone reliable to help me out lol

Cleaning is much more important when you shoot ammunition with corrosive primers such as old military surplus.

A videos series for specific animals would be nice to see.

Ron Have you ever tried the Hawk bullet in your tests mite want to look at them they look interesting 🤔 Love your pod / show RonG

I have no proof. But I think the German cartridge 8mm Mauser and the American 30-06 were designed to fight against cavalry. Actually they were obsolete from the beginning, the really modern cartridge was the Swedish 6,5mm Mauser.

Did you say the 7x57 was based on the 8x57 (7.92x57)? Pretty sure it was the other way around.

I find that cleaning my firearms after each day of shooting, field or range, to be therapeutic.

How to whitetail hunt or how to elk etc sounds great.

hunting how to's and tactics would be great.

Nice to see that there is merit in the impact out to 300 years max rule which is now the longest hunting shot you are allowed to take here in Australia. The new age of slower and heavier bullets for calibre has arrived. People are now shooting 150+ gn 270s and 180gn 308s at slower velocities. Less recoil and surer kills.

The 30-06 sibling I like the most, is the 6.5-06. It has served me very well for about 30 years and I have killed more than 300 deer of different kinds, included some moose with it.

I always used a 12 growing up but now with all the improvement in shells I now use a 20 gauge for everything but for geese or coyote 12 is king

30-40 Krag was the main cal. The Rough Riders had I think.

Hunting has become so heavily over regulated, and fines and punishment so severe, that most people target shoot, because there is much less risk there. When deer populations become so numerous, that i can drive a few miles down the highway at night and hit 4 deer in one night, that is because the hunting season is limited to about 4 days with a modern fire arm, and 2 weeks of black powder, and one month of bow, well, thats the problem. Hunting season is too shot to be effective, and the gotcha system most states embrace.

(23:25) I would love your take on practical hunting tactics, tips and advice. Deer, Elk, Pronghorn, Hog, Turkey, etc. I love your content and view on firearms and hunting.

When it comes to shotguns. For me it's all about the gun and choke. And load. I've had some shoot number six and keep a tight pattern at extreme ranges. But put 00 up 04 buckshot in it. Lucky if 2 pellets hit a 3×3 target at 30 ft. Know your gun and ammo. Practice and be comfortable. It should be automatic. Bird/ duck hunters know. When that gun comes up one eye on target other on sights them bring together. It's instant.

Thanks for answering my question……I guess those military armorers just hammered that cleaning mentality into my brain…..Im going to clean them less.

If you load a 130g in a 30-06 you get about the same trajectory.

Boom stick time of year

The old saying of clean your gun after every use was valid back when we had corrosive ammo. If you shoot non corrosive ammo you can go a decent amount of time before cleaning.

Geo ballistics ballistic arc APP is the best

I’ve had A lot of luck with A 16 gauge

I would love how to hunting video's on pheasant,deer, coyote

Ruger 5.7x28 carbine versus 17hmr

Would like to know your opinion on shot size, or she'll length for different game, whether magnum is needed or not. Also high brass vs low. Thanks Ron, keep it up.

256 Newton/6.5-06 came out in 1913 I think.

As for subsonic bullets: Most manufacturers state the minimum expansion velocity for bullets. Many normal hunting bullet will not begin to open at subsonic velocities. There is now a significant number of bullets designed specifically for subsonic hunting applications, though, but you need to check. Some shooters use cast lead bullets of various hardness and designs for subsonic cartridges since the hard guilding metal jacket is not really needed at the lower velocites. There are also some all brass or all-copper bullets for subsonics.

Are you in to fishing Ron

Obviously SS guns greatly reduce the need to clean surfaces, and bores. There are hard chrome guns, even matt ones and with those it is important to at least know whether it is SS, or HC, so you know what protection you have. There are "blue" guns that are actually stainless with some kind of coating on them. So one needs to know what the material is, as a gun that does not look stainless can be. With stainless guns you need to know what the interenals are like as often there are components you can't see that are carbon steel, in triggers, etc... Those may rust easily. If you clean the bore, then you will need to fire a fouling shot to get back to where the gun groups, many times. So unless you have rust issues, you are better off not cleaning the bore This is an advantage of a stainless barrel on a hunting gun as you don't have to mess with a bore, even if you have other issues.

hey Ron.. what state is silver jack in?? I'm sure that we all know someone that would be willing to take him hunting and or at the very least would work with him/her. I'm in Southern middle Tennessee.

400 Whelen is a thing... it has a small niche following. Not 416.

I'm going to clean my gun if I shoot it. when you shoot it it burns to oil out of your barrel.

6,5x55 sweedish mauser!!!!!!

I didn't think you could own a gun in Australia

333 OKH

Good information as always Ron, Thank you!!

Ron I have a serious complaint!! Where’s your dog!!! What have you done to her??? We want proof of life or we will send PETA!!!

You’d probably disagree on the birr cleaning but generally clean my rimfires every 50 or so rounds my semi auto shotgun will go 2000/3000 shots without cleaning but that’s a working gun my game or clay guns get cleaned every time

Ron, 15 min on shotguns 3 min on what the title advertised. As biden would say come on man.

I still don’t understand this obsession with minimal performance in firearms. It is good to know for your bullet expansion for sure but why push it? You know people will. Do these people not understand that they are taking a life. They are responsible for a clean ethical kill. To dispatch that animal with as close to or zero suffering IS THE GOAL. I don’t see this being talked about enough anymore. It is always better to have too much gun than not enough.

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cleaning rifle, good idea is to use a bore guide and every 20 to 40 rounds and a mild cleaning, get most of the powder fouling out I like to leave the copper alone, to much cleaning can hinder your groups, a little goes a long way,just use your best judgement thats my two cents worth, good shooting and good luck. GOD bless the USA !

With todays handgunn expanding bullets that perform exelent at under 1000Fps why use cast bullets? (I do, but pure lead will LEAD the barrel, if pushed over 800-1000 Fps, Gass checks come in mind (but anyone casts and uses gass checks today?) Have plenty and Lyman Lubri sizer, Check out Leight Defense Bullets for subsonic bullets, havn't used them yet, but seems they will work