Something I wish I had explained better: the ink from the markers is responsible for the poor layer adhesion. It's a side effect of the technique and the instructions and slicing profile are set up to account for this. My troubles were from me being impatient and going against these recommendations. Some people seemed to think there was something wrong with my printer but anyone who's been watching the channel for some time knows this printer has been featured in MANY videos.
Makes sense, you're basically introducing an impurity between the two layers that prevent the plastic from fusing together. You could probably get really good results with fabric markers meant for nylon and nylon filament since nylon is really good at absorbing dyes.
My guess about the layers adhering is that the heat from the layer of molten plastic that goes over the ink is causing the medium for the pigment (probably alcohol) to turn to steam, and this outgassing is lifting the layer. No clue what the solution would be short of waiting for the ink to dry, which isn't a good solution at all (just makes the print that much slower). LOL
Can PLA be dyed? I can't remember, but i do know some plastics and filaments certainly can, like nylon. I wonder if using a different chemistry to the sharpie marker may work better?
Creator of the 3DPrintcolorizer here. I already ordered my Conductive pens to try this out.. The good thing is, it should also be pretty easy to do multi layer 3D PCBs. Contact me if you want to collaborate on this one.
It may even be possible to achieve vertical traces. A solid cylinder wouldn't work because the layers would probably be isolated, but with small gaps, possibly interleaved, enough of the ink may seep through.
It will surely cause the End of the world cause if your family see any of the prints, they will be demanding more and more till someone figures out how to print an H Bomb
I LOVE that you describe all your failures rather than glossing over .... what 3D printing actually is. A long list of constant failing until (if you are patient enough) eventually you get to a state that works... for a few prints until (magically) something changes and maintenance and changes are required again. Thank you! This is a great video!
I have been trying out this Colorizer on my ender3 and i got it all working and tuned ok, but layer adhesion is terrible and i have not been able to fully complete a print because adhesion was so bad. I have been testing by just printing a single color benchy to keep things simple but no success yet.
@@folepi7995 yes and no. It seems to just duplicate the previous layer when drawing with the markers (which makes sense) so its going to draw whatever the previous layer put down. However, you can choose to use different extruders for top/bottom and for infill and so for those i choose the 1st extruder which is the 'no pen' one. This means it will mostly just draw the perimeters and you can use the infill to hold things together better. My test benchys tended to hold together decently when there is infill but fall apart when there are small details since those details tend to be fully colored. One thing i may try next is seeing if i can speed up the paint layers so it puts down less ink and slow down the normal layers to get better adhesion.
The holding design for the Markers is so incredibly smart that I'm just amazed. It's literally just relying on gravity to push the marker down. No need for complicated grabbing or holding with springs or motors. And it STILL offers reasonable protection against movement accidents in some cases, by allowing the marker to just slide up again.
This idea reminds me of early 3D printers where the results were rough but gave a glimpse of what might be possible. I think this idea has legs, and look forward to seeing how it develops. Certainly one improvement would be to change the pen holder somehow so the amount of Z-movement is reduced. But I'm sure someone will think of something soon :) I'd also like to see the pen holders covering the end of the marker so they don't dry up. I have a feeling their life might not be too long as it is.
Hah, was awesome to see my name show up in the Git Commit at 6:50 :D - I am loving this add on. It's a great addition to the ender 3 and allows for so much more experimentation :)
@@Rebar77_real I tried the metallic sharpies. I thought they might be very good for seperating layers for easy support removal. But in the end they were no better or worse than the normal colors
My man, thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! This is a real game changer for me since I have an extremely small budget for this type of hobby
Edit: check the last two paragraphs! I've printed a bunch of parts with permanent markers and it seriously decreases layer adhesion if applied to full layer. You only need to color the outer wall. I've used them most with wood filaments, either staining the filament before printing or adding color while it is printing. In the former case i stain the filament in set intervals, leaving unstained filament between stained parts. It creates similar pattern to growth rings. The ink has to be exactly right shade of brown, i finally settled on "burnt sienna" but could not find dark enough marker, so i do multiple passes when staining. In the latter case i've paused the print at random times and added color to the outside edge only, and so that the tip touches couple of layers. Both methods work when imitating wood, the randomness makes it really, really convincing. You would not guess it is made of plastic. But really, do NOT color the whole layer, i've had several parts fail. They snap in half with minimal force, no layer adhesion at all, not even enough for decorative objects. So, i'll wait until this method allows to only color the visible parts, the outer skin. At this very moment i'm experimenting casting with PLA.. I have way too much waste plastic so i thought.. why not try to cast them. I made a mold with desktop CNC, applied heat resistant paint, melted plastic with a heat gun and popped it in the oven.. Lets see how it turned out... hmmm... looks good on the outside, have to wait until it cools to see the results. I'm trying to use wood for the mold, it can easily withstand the 200C needed, the paint should come of with the plastic, i already tested that part.. and yes, i remembered to camber the walls.. edit: had to come to say: IT ACTUALLY WORKED!.. I was able to cast PLA part, solid using wood mold and heat resistant paint. I'm amazed... There are few voids in the bottom, i'm going to try to reflow it once more, keeping it in the oven for longer time. But the part is solid, i can't break it with considerable force, outside surface is smooth, it popped out nicely with paint at all side that touched the mold fully. The scrap plastic had multiple colors and the finished part looks black with very nice finish. I did not expect this good results from the first try. I can even now put the mold (with the plastic part in it) to CNC and mill the top layer.. the mold still has the reference point that i can use to home it... This is very exciting.
Thank you for the idea for PLA casting. I am expermimenting with technical parts and happen to have a 3018. Since failed prints/supports/calibration prints/outdated prints are quite common, finding a way to reuse them is very attractive.
Omg, that's amazing, I'm down to halfway on my fav filament, and was just wondering what colour to get next, then this popped up on my recommended. I so want to try this.
I'm flabbergasted that whoever created this didn't go the "sell kits for extremely ridiculous prices" path on this. This is also useful for a variety of plotter applications such as PCB manufacturing and signs. to mention a few.
Fortunately I earn enough money with my 9-5 that I wasn’t really tempted to do this ;-) But your comment got me thinking about printing 3D multilayer PCBs on PLA… I think I have to order some pens with conductive Ink.
maybe cause markers and printing don't mix unless you color before melting, markers are actually used for support release lol, I use that trick every time! 0 gap between support and piece, 0 sticking, perfect surface
I learn a lot of things with this channel. Thank you for this. That multi-color printing style is a little step to the 'multi-ink 3d printer'. Just like we have color ink 2d printer. It is not perfect but it will be one day
I used this technique last night for a 16 hour print, I used PLA @ 210c and kept the heatbed on constant heat. The layers came out strong and adhesion was not a problem at all. Thankyou for the design of the caddy as it has worked perfectly for me.
I saw this on Reddit recently and thought it was wonderful, however I tend to use my printers mostly for practical prints where colour doesent matter that much and if it did I would favour Idex or the pallette
Same here (in therms of printer usage), but I could find some uses, like labels on a case being easier than manually painted after done, or more complex graphics laid down straight into the print without stickers or such.
Wooo! What an awesome idea! But I'm not so surprised that layer adhesion becomes an issue after smearing Sharpie ink all over the printed plastic. I'll have to have a read up on it all though, it's super interesting!!!!!!!!!
Wow that was fantastic thank you. I tried using a sharpie on the filament before it printed to see if it would pass through and it did. What a neat idea. Great video
Thanks Michael! I've used Make Anything's sharpie blender and while it was a fun experiment it wasn't really a useful tool to add to the arsenal. This is really exciting but I would also have to experiment with designing my own parts as I use a Snapmaker 2. At least I already have the sharpies.
Why didn’t you find it useful? Husband hasn’t set up his 3d printer yet, so I’m still trying to understand the complexities. The Make Anything one looked great for mixing up specific colors for one off prints.
Great work as always. This community is great with sharing designs etc, restores faith in humanity somewhat. If you can access an iPad pro, Apple Pencil and a copy of Shapr3D, it's a game changer for 3D design I reckon.
Those pioneers like you at the time of this video, lead us today to systems like Bambu's AMS or even better! And techiniques like Make Anything's sharpies holder is still something useful and even the best way to go, as I said to him, when printing topographies and objects with shuffling and fading colors!
TBH 😅 All that position calibration and so that you did... Would have make me feel like color prints are out of reach in FDM with single nozzle, if I were here 2 years ago. Even discouraging me to get a Bambulab nowadays. That thing prints good stuff once settled but duuuude it's so finnicky!!
I don't think I'll try it since mostly I print functional parts, but it looks like an awesome project and very clever indeed. You are totally right about other multi-colour methods, so much waste and tempermental at best. So thank you so much for showing this project to us!
You really need to slow things down and potentially increase the temperature when doing this because the alcohol-based sharpie markers also act really well as a releasing agent to help layers come apart rather than stick together. You should have a go at using this same system but set up the gcode to draw just on the top level of the support to help act as a nice releasing agent between the support and model.
any marker really, I use this phenomenon on purpose! cause I hate removing supports and love a clean underside, so I do sharpie and 0mm gap, the marker's pigment acts as a release agent, I knew this would fail before I opened the video lol
@@l3d-3dmaker58 or this is just the perfect thing for yours (and my purposes) as a releasing agent rather than something to color prints. I am pretty certain you could find a dye based pen that wouldn’t work as well as a releasing agent too?
@@SchwaAlien might not be possible because of the toxicitiy issues of MEK but damn it would be good if it wasnt as it would also probably make a reasonably good solvent for the inks too and replace xylene and make a good color system.
Thank you very much. This is why i love at 3D printing. If you have a task or a problem 3D printing can help to solve it. I dont have a dual or multi color printer, but hey no problem Michael show me how to solve this problem! Thanks to Andreas Müller for the design and to bring us this idea! 3D printer rule the world! (Now in color).
Thought up some stuff: Targets for a pigment mixing or painting 3d printer tool would be: >color saturation (control) >number of colors available (pigment mixing) >resolution (sharp color changes) >accuracy >homogenity (when mixing colors, getting the wanted color insted of streaks of used pigments) >difusion (so the pigment is visible on the outside / fills the extruded line) Approaches: 1. Adding pigment before extrusion +Good homogenity and diffusion. A module could probably be added before any extruder. With enough pigment good saturation would be available. -poor accuracy/resolution - either a wipe tower is needed to get the wanted color in the expected place, or only gradients will be achivable. 2. Adding pigment after extrusion (painting like in the video) +great accuracy and resolution. With an oversized inkjet color mixing wouln't be an issue. Decent saturation, as only the outer layer is painted. A module could be added to the print head, making it universal. -no diffusion, the pigment might just wipe off with use. Poor homogenity, as likely only the top of the extrusion is painted, leaving white spots on the underside. 3. Adding pigment during extrusion +Better diffusion than 1st, better accuracy than 2nd as the pigment would be added within the extrusion but still be closer to the nozzle, so less filament wasted on a wipe tower. -homogenity - resolution is a tradeoff, depending on how far up the nozzle the pigment is added. Very complicated and potentialy fradgile, so most likely a separate extruder. Feel free to add to or correct me, als pardon my poor word choises, as I'm not a native english speaker.
I'm gunna give you my genuine reaction after seeing 5 seconds of this video. " Ohhhhh myyyy Gooooddddd , What the faaaaakkk , ehhhh, hehe, haha, Lollllll. That's halarious" That's actually what I said out loud to myself. Such a sick idea. very cool.
I just added this to my Ender 3 and so far I can say I am thrilled with the results. The comments you made in the video about impatience causing headaches were taken well to heart and I can say my patience was rewarded. One other question though: Has anyone figured out how to take this system and turn the printer into a multi-color plotter/drawing machine?
I know there's another printer that combines three printing with a inkjet printer to accomplish the same basic purpose. I feel like this really is the way forward for multicolor 3D printing as with just technology that already exists you could make full color anything you want with a single filament. I'm not sure why this hasn't been pursued more as I feel like it would be a really good thing to do.
Considering how long the markers will have their tips exposed as print jobs run for hours, I'd consider altering it to use some type of refillable markers. Ideally that would make it more cost effective while giving you a wider palette of colors to choose from. Anyway, just a thought. :)
Think out of the box ... Sure, on a printer where the bed moves up and down and the carriage in X/Y, you cannot do the exact same trick, but there are bound to be other ways to mechanically grab a sharpie by moving at specific X coordinate all the way to the back and then in X direction to attach a holder with the sharpie before moving back forwards (like a tool changer). Someone up for designing that (and adapt the plugin to handle that)? I do think a tiny purge block might also make sense, just to alleviate problems with the oozing. If you have an all- metal heatbreak and DD extruder, using retractions like the 6mm mentioned in the video sounds like asking for clogs ... Using less will likely still cause a bit of oozing, which you then should clean off against a small but sturdy purge block before laying down the next layer. Or by moving the nozzle over a brush before every new layer (there are some videos on such a mechanism). All in all, great idea ... Hope there will be a Teaching Tech follow-up on this with the problems ironed out and more details on how you would cope with stuff like a DD conversion or the mentioned other printer geometries...
Really cool stuff. I would love to see something like this, but with glue. I feel like an EXTREMELY useful thing would be to fill holes with a sturdy glue. Imagine having an inner cavity created simply because of how infill works... then drop in some gorilla glue mid print thereby trapping the glue to add a sturdy & lightweight section. ??Silicone to make water tight parts.
So I'm seeing a really promising concept, but with concerns about delamination of layers and difficulty of calibration, I'm weighing the utility between automated colouring and just manually colouring the print when it's finished and the latter seems most reasonable.
I would say every multi colour system I have used has a similar level of calibration and compromise required, so this is a great dipping of the toe in the water.
While watching this, I might have had the single dumbest idea I have ever had in my entire life up until this point: Use a paint pen (or something like it) as the "final" layer on support material. My thoughts are that the interface between the print and the support structure should be able to be easily broken free due to that thin layer of 'paint' and since it is not plastic it might be able to be removed with water/IPA. The 'paint' I was thinking of would be the "correction fluid" that is used in offices for paperwork that has a typo on it.
@@Mary_tian With the current solutions you don´t print multi color you print multi material. They are way too inefficient for multi color printing, you need many different filament rolls with different colors how does this make sense ? You only need one translucent filament and 3 sharpies to print multi color just like a 2D printer does. This is the solution we need for multi color not the big bulky mechanical systems we currently have.
@@Quinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn true. Didn't think of that. I think Stuff Made here did it with a plasma cutter and I don't think those have Z movement, so that's an advantage for a 3d printer. Much easier than designing and building a pneumatic device.
I tried this but it wasn‘t too helpful. In the end what helped was slowing down the outer wall print speed. The inner walls, infill etc. can be quite high. Reducing only the outer wall speeds doesn’t really affect the whole print time to much.
Nice idea. Im working on something similar but not quite... More like a mix of this and the MMU2s... The MMU2S works great for me so its not a priority more like a pet project.
Now this my be a future in colour printing This is properly the way to get colour printing to be a thing a bit more tinkering is needed but still. I always had an vision about some thing like this in order to get rid of waist full purge blocks colouring on the fly is properly the way to get results. but how is still a open topic but its getting there....
Thank you Micheal, that was pretty cool and in-depth as ever :D this system is close to a colorizing holy-grail, the pens could come front-right corner of any print bed perhaps? Less travel and cable motion? still amazing
Gotta try this out some day, pretty interesting! I can see some practical applications for my stuff (since I basically just print functional stuff) like labels on a casing and such. On an unrelated semi-bragging note, damn I can't imagine my printer's Z moving that slow... I home everything including Z at 50mm/s and often pull Z at 100mm/s
If only we could have more stepper outputs on the Ender 3 board, then we could run multiple extruders with different color filaments in them thus also eliminating waste towers 🤔 or maybe there is a way to daisy chain two Ender boards together or even an expansion board to add extra extruders?
The so called “microscope method” being used by the E3D ToolChanger community could be a good way to dial in the XY alignment with a bit less guesswork. Z would might still need to be done separately but for XY it makes it super simple if you happen to have one of those microscopes.
I wonder how it would work with better alcohol based inks, there are a number of high quality (also costs more) sharpie like markers with a huge range of colour options such as Copic or ProMarkers. Also on layer adhesion, I wonder if ironing each layer (not sure if any slicer allows this) would help mix the ink in with the filament. PrusaSlicer allows different filament to be specified for infill with the MMU, surely that sort of feature could be used to make sure only perimeters and solid infills are coloured.
Honestly I like the lizard more with the bad offset. Gives it a chameleon look! Would love to have that little guy but sadly this system won't happen for the UpMini2 printers since they are so locked down. Can't even run Cura on the dang things.
how can you get adhesion like that? I specifically use sharpie as support interfaces with 0mm gap to get clean under surfaces that have 0 sticking to the part
I wonder if this could be the future, making 3d printers more like 2d printers. You'd purchase rolls of "base colour" like how there's cheaper and more expensive printer paper; and cartridges, like specially designed markers that don't affect layer adhesion as much and are more vibrant.
I think, the original 3pens getting more pigments in 3 direction while here, only one direction so drawing on didn't mix the pigments well before extrusion. But anyway it's a neat idea. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
