Back in 1980, I once ended up in IMC on a VFR flight. It was about midnight on what was a clear moonlight night, and I had just landed at Millville, NJ from the south, and had gone in and got a WX brief in person at the FSS that was on the field, and was told that my return flight to KLDJ would be CAVU. KMIV was reporting clear with unlimited visibility, with light and variable winds, and so was Linden (KLDJ) which was about 60 miles away. The lesson that I learned was that WX reports are what is observed AT THE OBSERVATION POINT on the field. I took off and just beyond the end of the RWY there was a wall of fog, and I was in the soup. Well, I remembered Aviate, Navigate, Communicate in that order. I just kept runway heading and climbed out of it, but I was in it for about what seemed like an eternity but was only about a minute or so and up to about 1000 feet. I came out of it seeing a white "landscape" below me, however, I could see that the thick fog suddenly ended about 10 miles north of there. When I first went into the soup, my heart started to race, but then I remembered those three words that my Instructor, Mike Loftus taught me AVIATE, NAVIGATE, COMMUNICATE! Amazingly I instantly calmed down and did what I was taught.
I've had a great flight instructor, and when I started my PPL VFR training he actually gave me 5 free flights just to teach me basic IFR flying so that I can stay safe in case I get into IMC. And on my 5th solo cross country that's exactly what happened, and have I not had that training I would've probably be dead now. I really think that no matter if you are only doing VFR traning the basics of flying in IMC should be provided during every initial flight training.
@@fozzywxman if you know you can't keep your instrument current - you don't get it. That's the reason I'm not getting it, and won't most likely. A lot of money, and the skill will perish quickly either way. Doesn't make sense.
That is an excellent idea, allowing VFR pilots to experience IFR in a sim and to see the results.. They will not forget the experience. Your constant instrument scan and trusting your instruments is key. When in IMC, just focus on the instruments, looking outside may actually make it more difficult..
I'm not a pilot and that's exactly what I thought, that should be automatic once you're unable to see outside, just focus on your instruments and you shouldn't even experience SD if you focus on your instruments.
I'm not a pilot but I'm frankly amazed that some of the guys said they hardly ever look at their instruments when flying! I had always assumed instrument training was part of getting a pilots license.
Most VFR pilots avoid bad weather, and 99.999% of the time that is good enough. In those cases, being able to fly without referencing the instruments is actually a good thing. All pilots get some good training in which you fly by instrument alone, but it is not so much.
@@original6hockey402 3 hours is required now. During which, I did basic navigation, unusual attitude recovery, and radar approaches all under the hood. Sucks not being able to enjoy the view, but hopefully lifesaving training.
Private pilots receive only a few hours of rudimentary instrument training - just enough to make shallow-banked turns to escape the clouds - before earning their PP licenses. But even that little bit of proficiency wears off soon without periodic practice. For a VFR only pilot, flying into clouds for an extended time proffers only the panic a swimmer feels when he is about out of breath and strength and is about to drown; it's shear terror that only multiplies with each passing second until the violent end.
The Lucas Higgins just because at one time you may have been proficient flying IFR it doesn’t mean you keep the skill. Obviously this guy wasn’t proficient/competent, nor was his company authorized to fly anything, but VFR. He violated numerous FAR’s and paid ultimate price as did his passengers. Never should have happened.
This is just a small voice of gray-beard experience here. Take it for what it's worth or disregard it altogether; these newer, younger instructors probably have a better handle on the technical details of teaching the subject of Continued VFR Into IMC than I do. However, with my 52 years and just over 9,000 hours of hard IMC logged, I know I can still quickly reach a point where I feel overwhelmed while on instruments - AT FIRST. That is to say, I can be disoriented in the first 10 to 30 seconds or so after entering the clouds UNLESS I HAVE VERY RECENT EXPERIENCE IN THE CLOUDS. Recency of experience ads to the confidence I have when I enter the clouds - especially at night. I am quite comfortable hand-flying our turbine multi-engine airplanes in the clouds all night if need be. Nonetheless, those first many seconds in the clouds after I come back from a couple of weeks off - or an extended vacation - necessitate extra vigilance and concentration. I have to be TOTALLY COMMITTED to IMC flying at that point - forgetting all about what is beyond my instrument panel; the outside world no longer exists... At my age and experience level I can certainly imagine and understand how a private pilot - one who might fly at most perhaps fifty hours a year, and who has no recent experience in the clouds or at night - might be quickly disoriented and panicked after entering the soup or after entering airspace over sparsely populated areas in darkness. And that Private pilot does not have the required experience to fall back on and rely on to calm him down and keep him focused... There is no substitute for practice, calmness and experience - especially recent experience. Be safe out there, folks.
I think this is a fundamental issue with the way pilots are trained. During my (few) flights as a student pilot, my instructor was insisting that i look out the window almost full time, and every once in a while throw a glance at the altimeter. I do understand that they do that in order to get you familiar with flying instinctually, but the problem is that it is instinct that gets VFR pilots in trouble in IMC. I think there should be mandatory IFR basic training for anyone who wants to get a licence. Enough to at least be able to fly out of IMC.
At least in the US there is. A minimum 3 hours simulated instrument time, including unusual attitude recovery, 180 degree turns, straight and level flight, and tracking navigational aids.
As a CFI it's simply way easier to teach someone to fly by looking out the window. Essentially it's just much less of a pain in the ass to get students to fly properly. I believe it's more a matter of how much effort the CFI puts into training their students and how much patience they have.
"During my (few) flights as a student pilot, my instructor was insisting that i look out the window almost full time, and every once in a while throw a glance at the altimeter." My experience exactly. Made no sense then, makes less sense now.
@@joeglidden9626 To me it does make sense however. VFR means you should see and avoid... If you keep looking inside, you could miss other airplanes coming your way. IFR is different, as it is someone else's job to avoid collision, so you can stick to your instruments...
Uhhh...that's kind of the point of VFR (Visual Flight Rules). You're suppose to keep your head outside. You're watching for traffic, obstacles and terrain, it's not ATCs job to watch traffic for VFR pilots, it's the PIC's job. Also, IFR is flying by the numbers. It's not something as simple as trying to fly a straight line through a cloud. You also have to land in IFR. It's completely different than VFR and requires a different mindset. I'm a private pilot with no instrument rating and just a few hours under the hood, but I've taken some instrument ground school and yeah...it's not quite like VFR. At all.
I saw the fog and first out of my mouth was that pilot should had ground him self in a field or parking lot. He went back up in the fog layer what a fool.
Maybe and maybe not. The pilot was IFR certified so if he was in practice he shouldn’t have had this problem. It is entirely possible as the flight was VFR that he was flying up a valley staying below the clouds but found the pass ahead blocked by clouds. From what I saw from the NTSB so far he was trying to turn around and it appears he stalled and spun into the ground. This same thing happened in Switzerland several years ago on a clear hot day when a JU-52 realised he couldn’t clear a pass tried to do a steep turn, stalled and spun into the ground. I think we need to wait for the full NTSB report to know better the most likely cause.
What instruments do VFR pilots usually end up focusing on when they enter IMC? Shouldn't the artificial horizon provide clear indication they are banking too steeply? I had a lot of flight similator time before I got my PPL, on the first few lessons my instructor had to keep reminding me to look outside instead of scanning the instruments. I usually fly IFR now, so would like to know the perspective of what VFR pilots usually look at when they hit IMC or if many of them disregard the artificial horizon in the first place.
@@alejandrogomezcesena3822 Yeah but the attitude indicator should be the intrument that a pilot looks at. If your aicraft is functioning properly, you should be able to stay safe by focusing on that. Because at the very least, you stay level, which means you will retain speed, retain altitude
@@PBMS123 i agree totally, my answer was more to do with why they couldn’t scan their instruments or trust the attitude indicator in the vid. i like the original commenter also started my ppl after like 15 years of obsessive desktop sim time so i also have trouble looking outside.
@@PBMS123 The attitude indicator is important but focusing on that alone will still get you in trouble. Your attitude indicator can indicate level flight or even slightly nose high, but you still could be descending at a rapid rate. It also tells you nothing about your airspeed which could be decreasing below stall speed or increasing above Vne. Or you could have slowly turned to a heading that will take you into terrain, airspace, or weather that you need to avoid. Also, attitude indicators do fail, so you need to be constantly scanning the other instruments, crosschecking them and be able to determine quickly which one failed. The FAA has a free book in PDF form called the Instrument Flying Handbook that is a great reference for understanding all of this and learning how to do a proper instrument scan.
Just reading instruments should easily get you through IMC. The problem is when you are trying to do that while you’re being bounced around and experiencing wind shear and shifting winds, not to mention possibly icing accumulation. Now you’re trying to maintain a heading and level attitude while your plane’s flying envelope is getting progressively worse and the weather is doing it’s best to knock you off heading and attitude. The best idea is always to fly around any possible icing or convective activity and in the first hint of a problem tell ATC firmly you have a major problem and need vectors out of weather immediately!
@TrueValues77 the helicopter was not equipped with IFR equipment because the company policy was to never fly into IMC. The pilot was most likely out of proficiency. We mat may never know why he choose to fly that day when all he had to do was say, no Mr. Bryant, it is not safe to fly right now.
@TrueValues77 there will be lawsuits no doubt. The pilot was IFR rated, he was a flight instructor for private pilot and ifr(CFII). However, being someone who survive a stall apin into the woods , when it is your time to go, it is your time! Wasnt my time, I knew I was going to die, seeing the same thing they saw in the video, the Lord let me land in the trees with no more then a small cut on my knee. Miracle indeed!
How did these people get their license without any instrument time? It is very important to practice flying by instrument only with an instructor onboard.
I'm not a pilot and I don't play one on tv, but these things fascinate me. Here's something we nonpilots can do that will give a sense of how this manifests itself. Simply look in a mirror and try cutting your own hair. You KNOW that you have to push your hand the opposite way it appears in the mirror and this should be easy enough. Try it. Overcoming intellectually what your brain is saying to you is a most difficult task.
I did for a while, I don't have the same mirror set up I had so I don't anymore. At first it was very difficult and I messed it up more than once. After like 2-3 times I finally got the hang of it.
Try rigging a bike backwards. Take week/ months to learn to ride it. Then go back to a normal bike. Its impossible to ride.... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MFzDaBzBlL0.html @@Goststriker
Not safe to do for more than a second, but try closing your eyes while you're walking on a treadmill. You lose your sense of balance quickly. Perhaps the sensations you get doing that are similar to becoming blinded by fog or a cloud?
Your body can't tell the difference between gravity and centrifugal force. Without being able to see, you could be in a coordinated turn and you might think you were level. So you have to rely on the instruments.
That's one of the things Einstein showed, right? Gravity isn't a force, it's just movement in a certain direction, so when you're experiencing other forces like falling or turning, it's indistinguishable. Which is also why they can do those "weightless flights" where the plane goes into a dive and you can feel exactly the way it is in space.
@@EGarrett01 Wrong. That's what Newton "showed", and Einstein corrected (with the concept of space/time). Actually, gravity IS a force- one of the 4 forces of the universe. www.space.com/four-fundamental-forces.html
As someone who started by sole reference to instruments with military UAVs, I found IFR flight pretty easy. Just focus on the instruments and don't bother trying to look through a cloud. Keep turns standard rate and watch you altitude, airspeed, artificial horizon, heading indicator and compass.
Dave Holland but don‘t forget that your vestibular system is in stillstand, IN a moving aircraft you have exactly those cues on your body they’re talking about in the video. Even if IFR rating like I am, it‘s a totally different thing training ifr on a computer or in the air
@@BK117Dude IMHO, yes and no. Yes this is not the same thing to fly in IMC in real condition and not behind a desk. But yes the training behind your computer helps. I'm currently passing my PPL but before that I had a lot of virtual training using only instruments. Last week, and for the first time, I have done a flight without seeing anything else than my instruments. I flew it around for 10 minutes like these without any issue. I was used to train with only instruments and it helped me a lot. I did not care about my body sensations and was able to fly safely for a good amount of time. But what is sure is that I don't want this situation ^^
It's difficult to keep your cool once that fog envelops you and you know full well that your IMC experience level is low or non-existent. That's when "panic sell off" begins. And your ability to think rationally and remain calm starts to diminish. I've watched students begin suddenly to pour sweat and hyperventilate.
I don't understand what these guys are turning with 30-degree banks in IMC. Nice shallow turn to maintain control to your back course heading and fly out of it
I don't understand why some of these pilots aren't well versed in IFR? This should be a mandatory mode to use for all pilots in those kind of conditions
Kobe Bryant's helicopter pilot said he was ascending to avoid clouds at 9:39 am, they crashed at 9:45. So it looks like he got blinded and was down 6 minutes later.
You are relay misinformation: Kobe's pilot's last transmission was "VFR conditions, 1,500', 2EX" . ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hrq4EQifMPg.html
I suggest you take that up with wikipedia, as well as the AP and NPR because that's what they reported. "9:39 a.m.: Flight approved to turn SW shortly after reaching SR 118; pilot states intention to climb to avoid cloud layer (last transmission)""
@@EGarrett01 Show me where it is reported that "Bryant's helicopter pilot said he was ascending to avoid clouds at 9:39 am". I suggest that YOU read the transcripts I provided and correct your erroneous assertion. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Calabasas_helicopter_crash www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2020/01/27/transcript-conversation-between-pilot-ara-zobayan-air-traffic-control-kobe-bryant-crash/
Hahaha damn right, i definitely think more pilots should practice emergencies in their home sims (even just a joystick) , i was kinda impressed when i started my ppl and almost none of the students used a flight sim in their house
Just tested myself on fs2020, full thunderstorm, wind, full realism and gyro drift, night, managed to do a one hour round trip totally on instruments - the concentratuon level is intense, so I can imagine the sweat of a real situation.
@@marklee1462 this is why real instrument training is needed - in a real aircraft, where you prove you are willing to trust your life to the instruments.
One can fly many many years safely as a VFR pilot....ADDING the instrument rating is of great benefit should one accidentally find them selves in VMC. Your airline pilot will be Instrument qualified....
So many pilots should stay on the ground! Basic Instrument training is a must you shouldn't be flying if cannot perform a 180 degree turn out of IMC. Practice until it becomes something can do without thinking about it. Put a hood on!
This is where Flight Simulator experience comes into play. I think there's a huge difference between the old-timer kind of pilots, 50 years old or more who've never touched a simulator and the newer generation who grew up with Flight Simulator at home. I'm not Instrument Rated yet but have flown in IMC for extended periods at a time and didn't find it hard to keep the airplane flying. The key is to forget about trying to look through the clouds and just keep your eyes inside the cockpit. It's also very important to cross-check the instruments between scans, to keep the engine in the green RPM band, use carb/pitot heat and monitor the suction. 2 altimeters are required, preferably of different sources, say a GPS altimeter and a standard baro altimeter.
This overconfidence is dangerous. Simulator cannot replace real experience. I flew into IMC once and I prevented a crash just because of a tiny piece of information that I learned to interpret form dozens of bad landings.
What plays a huge factor is the fact your body is going to tell you something different than your gauges. You WILL want to follow your body. That's what flight simulators at home don't teach you. It's a very uneasy feeling the first time you get into IMC and your body automatically tells you something different than you are seeing.
I know this video is old but I am commenting anyway. I am a student pilot for helicopters. I always thought if you get into those situations that you just rely on Instruments.... no? What is that so hard to do? Ignore what you think the aircraft is doing. And just look at the panel. You can't see outside anyway
asking as a non-pilot, if the weather turns bad and visibility suddenly becomes zero, why is it so difficult for the VFR rated pilot to simply fly the plane, using the instruments and hold the plane straight and level.....while talking with the ATC and getting instructions to better weather.....why does the pilot suddenly get into an spiral they are unable to recover from.... thanks
VFR pilots instinctively rely on visual cue outside the plane to know the plane's attitude and "butt" feelings to tell you what the plane is doing. Losing visibility means that the most important half of the information becomes lost, and the brain becomes confused as to what is happening to the plane. Trying to fly with the instruments in a situation that is stressful is suddenly like trying to follow master Yoda's advice "Unlearn what you have learned". Doing hood time is easy, with an instructor and in good weather ... but if near convective currents or turbulences the sudden changes in vertical acceleration just add to the overall confusion. Personally I didn't think it was very hard, but when you start you realize it is very easy to get unwanted bank if you "forget" the artificial horizon for just a second, then realize you are losing altitude while gaining speed ... then try to just pull up to fix that, put some Gs that make you think your are straight, then see the altitude going up and airspeed down making your eyes stuck on the vertical speed, try to correct that for a bit, pull more Gs, gain more speed watch the vertical speed going from full climb to full dive... at which point maybe a quick glance at the artificial horizon tells you that does not make sense ... you're now inverted ... oops.
This gave me a lot of perspective on the crash that killed Kobe and 8 others. I dont know crap about planes...but it seems the takeaway from all of this is just to avoid these conditions in general. So 9 people died in a completely preventable event. Three teen girls who will never reach their full potential and several families torn apart.
Seems like issues happen when they start to turn probably be best if you find your self in IMC to find out if straight ahead weather gets better and find somewhere else to land. Recent video of a Asian woman in Florida this year killed in a 152 flying into IMC she was calling into the emergency freq they told her to turn 360 to a nearby airport that is when she crashed.
+kell490 Yeah but the problem isn't with trying to do a coordinated turn its the added workload of scanning your instruments which you would still have to do to fly through the weather. I don't think you would commonly find a isolated system small enough to fly through I think most of the time the 180 is going to be the safer choice.
movieman162 I'm not a pilot I want to be my life isn't yet where I can have the time and money to do it almost there saving up about 25k for training want to get PPL VFR/IFR as well as rental I want to learn some different aircraft rental seems best way when starting out no ownership risk. Hate to see anyone get into trouble it's really hard to listen to those radio recordings last few minutes of someones life.
Yeah unless you win the lottery or have a nice amount in your savings account you wont be going into ownership anytime soon. The best thing is to research flight schools, find a nice flight school with an aircraft type you would like to train on and stick to it. Get into flying different types after you get your PPL done. Get your medicals everything else sorted first as that can take a lot of time and money.
movieman162 It's not the money I could easily afford 150-175k plane but I know it's best to learn everything I can before making any leap into owning. This will be a hobby for me have to clear out a few others before I take on a new one. Wife says I need to sell the drag racing car, and 2 other "Projects" I have which should cover training cost. In the end I might not ever own renting, flying club, or partial owner in something might be better. I know unless you fly a lot it's not cost effective to own with the exception of a home built. I should be good on the medical no issues there.
Not a pilot here but I'm wondering if you found yourself in these conditions why not just keep the plane straight and level and stay up high. I know I must be missing something because that's what I would do.... use that little instrument that shows you're flying level and then make sure I was plenty of high up in the air and away from the ground. I would keep flying like that and if I didn't get out of the IMC conditions I would radio for someone to help me get to where I could see again. Any pilot out there want to explain why these guys couldn't do that. I must be missing a big piece of the flying puzzle here. I'm the chick on your flight who is slightly rocking back and forth while repeating "Our Fathers" and "Hail Mary's" (somewhat silently) every time I fly. A few years ago on a flight from Atlanta to Santa Fe I was doing this and a very nice Korean looking man next to me, tapped me on my shoulder and said rather tersely "stop it...You are annoying me". #IhateflyingandIwanttothrowup
It really depends on the situation. When I accidentally enter IMC, do I know how high the clouds go? They could go for just 1000 feet, or they could go for 30,000 feet. Also, how low am I to the ground at the time of entering IMC? If I'm pretty high, then I'm already clear of obstacles, and turning around 180-degrees will get me back to where the weather was better.
I would love to see if I could do it since I’ve done nothing but fly in flight gear sim. I have been practicing CAT I approach conditions on an ILS with 15 Knot crosswind in a Cessna 172, dealing with the wind as it keeps pushing me off the ILS is a challenge, keep over correcting.
1300 hour pilot without any hood time, you kidding me? Also he obviously know what the turn coordinator is, yet he kept going at a more than standard rate, uncoordinated turn and failing to ease out the turn, how is this even happening -_-
For me getting on a plane without the ability to fly and land it when you can't see outside is like driving a car without the ability to use your windshield wipers and hope it will not rain along the way. just plain crazy, especially when you have over 1000 hours of flight time
that's not even remotely the same. Pilots don't "hope". Clouds don't magically pop out of the sky - planning makes IMC 100% avoidable 100% of the time. Poor planning and decision making is what leads to being in IMC. There is no hope involved.
@@igvc1876 Clouds do actaully pop out of the sky, that's kind of how they form. now of course today we usually know where and when they will form and can also track them along the way as they develop or disappear. even though we have all the technology and knowledge we still can't predict every situation out there with 100% accuracy and certainty. winds, storms, and the constant movement of accumulations can surprise you from time to time. as a pilot you obviesly should plan your flight according to the known weather forcast and in most cases will probably be fine. me as a pilot will never feel safe with the 5% or 10% chance of getting into an IMC condition I couldn't predict knowing I don't have the knowledge to saftly fly in that situation
Non-pilot here - How many of these aircraft are equipped with autopilot? If I ever found myself behind a yoke with things going wrong, and I couldn't figure it out, I'd simply just switch on the autopilot. . .
Richard Howell / A Beechcraft Baron was used in this sim, and all barons were equipped with decent autopilots as standard. Almost every aircraft flying today has an autopilot fitted, the only exceptions are the basic trainers (Cessna 150, Piper Cherokee 140, older Cessna 172s) as well as ultralights. It is recommended to use the autopilot in VFR to IMC situations, but it’s important to remember that autopilots are complex and break easily, meaning many small planes are flying with broken/malfunctioning autopilots. Even if the autopilot is working, there is no guarantee that the pilot knows how to use it. Autopilots are very dumb, and if you don’t know how to use them right, they can make things much worse.
I really really really don't get what's so difficult about simply keeping the ADI centered?? Like..just keep the artificial horizon where it's supposed to be
What I did not like about this test is that there was no control(s). They should have had a newly instrument rated pilot, an experienced and proficient one, a rusty one, an active CFII, and an ATP all fly to see how they did. Instead, all we have is a mashup of VFR only pilots, and therefore it brings doubt to how realistic the sim is. I have flown Redbirds for currency, and while they are great trainers, I would not consider them 'realistically stable'.
Why not hang something like a tennis ball dead center above windshield, object should turn in direction of turn, if any, or, what about horizon indicator
I remember reading about a fire onboard an aircraft where people died because they could not see their way out of plane. Then, Aeronautical Engineers designed tiny lights on floors of aircraft near seats. At the time, I wondered, does it take an accident to move the ball, to progress to a solution? Do engineers think outside the box, or is their thinking one step at a time, inability to think ahead to the “what if’s”?
These two things are whaat really matter, although I do not hear anyone with an opinion: Why was pilot flying so fast, and why was he so low? I saw a pic of the helicopter path, and it looked as if pilot may have been heading toward Camarillo, going West, diagonally from 101 FWy, which would explain left turn away from it. In pic, it looked as if pilot then flew between two hilly regions, dead center between. Then pilot took another left turn, why?
I just don't understand how so many high hour pilots can't fly by their instruments ! Fly the aircraft gently trust your instruments, maintain wings level, altitude and speed. Reverse your course gently! Most VFR pilots in the UK, hit IMC conditions either briefly or for quite some time before turning back. Of course the ideal scenario is not go flying when the weather is IMC its no fun !
Yes you are. VFR pilots need to always be looking out for traffic with their eyes and not be looking at instruments - air traffic control is not responsible for them - it's impossible for it to be responsible for every plane everywhere. It's their job to not fly into IMC to avoid the need to rely on instruments.
I find it mind boggling that no one ever looks at the instrument that's located dead center in front of the pilot. You know, the blue and brown one that's so important that it's placed in the center on every aircraft ever built. How hard is it to learn that you're turning in the opposite direction that the white triangle is pointing? In other words, turn the yoke in the direction the triangle is pointing until it's in the center to bring the aircraft to wings-level. Why is this NOT part of basic curriculum? How can one be allowed to fly an airplane when they don't understand that simple, yet very important instrument?
now try it in vr brillian if you have not got imc ratting should not be flying period imc is hazardous to imc rated pilots as well in small GA aircraft
It's not even that hard, just watch attitude indicator, airspeed and vertical climb. Im a student pilot and even I know this. Not trying to sound arrogant, but if you get stuck in clouds (which you shouldn't to begin with) it seems to me like its a no brainer to keep yourself level using the attitude indicator and airspeed.
Do people understand how amazing the Berlin airlift was now? Have you even heard of the Berlin airlift? Gargle it. Since weather exists it’s amazing pilots aren’t trained in this in the first place. I mean, when’s the last time you saw plane only flying on sunny days?
I have trouble understanding why every single pilot in this exercise turned more than standard rate. What happens beyond 15-20 degrees is other lift forces just exacerbating the sense of disorienting direction/balance. For example, if turning beyond 20 degrees, there is always a need for back pressure on the yoke to keep from entering the first stages of a stall-spin, which is what happened to every pilot here. Depending upon the aircraft, pull the throttle back to slow down, keep everything standard rate or less, and for the sake of everything holy, keep the damn ball centered. I suspect your chances of survival would be increased somewhat...
kobe lived as a basketball legend, and died as a heroic aviation instructor. many people get to learn about the seriousness of vfr into imc becos of him.
The company's policy was to never fly IMC and the helicopter was not equipped with IMC avionics. He was dead the moment he decided to leave the airport under low visibility and not turn back before it got really bad
design a hologram to project onto the windscreen when encountering IMC. A very simple program displaying a 1500' altitude view of terrain which remains constant as plane fly's the horizon. Integrate it into the back of the dash compass. Done. The technology gong into kids video games is more than enough to give a pilot a clear sense of forward view of blue skies, streets and rooftops and trees below. Once out of the clouds, click off. One other thing, we have dime sized video sensors onboard cars. How come an additonal $300 bucks can't be added to commercial aircraft and place one looking out each wing from fuselage to engines and the 3rd showing the tail. How many more times do pilots have to spend valuable minutes and seconds trying to figure if an engine is on fire, trailing fuel, landing gear issues, cargo hold's, or how about Alaskan Air 261. A chinese camera the size of your fingernail monitoring that T-tail would have been a blessing to those poor pilots trying to figure out the problem. Instead we are like cave men flying planes. Asking stewardess's to climb over passengers to look out the window.
Just looked up Alaskan air 261, so tragic. Just a question, if they were able to see and know exactly what was causing the problem would it have been possible for them the recover and save the aircraft?
@Tim Tully I was referring to seeing the tail via camera as the OP suggested. Ok understood. I saw in another video that a mechanic for the manufacturer of the aircraft shed some light on the potential for this happening and made some recommendations about two years prior and no action was taken and then the negligence on the part of Alaskan air as far as maintenance goes, SMH!!
Yes. I believe that too. He was trying to go back to VFR by making a U-turn, hence that quick left turn. But instead, the ridge stopped him from completing it. No TAWS no warning. Nose down was straight Spatial Disorientation on his part. He prolly thought he was level or climbing. Sadly he was pitched down. He got spooked by the sudden white out, and everyone paid for it. #RiP9
even as a vfr pilot.. u cant be stupid enough to not look at ur vsi.. u just have to maintain straight and level and watch ur airspeed. I fly vfr. but i look at my vsi to see if im climbing or not. if i am.. then i would adjust my rpm. plain and simple.
They say X-Plane simulator is 95% accurate. I fly VFR into IMC on numerous occasions in the Cessna 172 SH in real time weather setting and rarely have a problem. I maintain altitude, air speed, heading and level attitude and manage to make it to my destination. I fly these storms with virtual reality headset on so yes I see the crisscross white and dark clouds at the wind screen ( when I glans up ) and it even feels like I'm in a descent bank right angle, I pay no attention to what I feel in VR or what I see and am successful in making it to point B ( airport) but yet these REAL pilots seem to blow off their instrument's and crash the plane. I don't get it. Is X-Plane full of crap and makes it easy for the sim pilot or are these real pilots just too stubborn to trust their instruments ???
How can you have that many hours and no hood time. Or an instrument rating for that matter. Instrument rating is the second half of the private pilot, in my opinion. I bet if you got some experienced young x plane 11 pilots in there they would do alot better than these guys. Just a hunch.
Tells you how bad instructors can be not instilling a good scan by pilots. They have to learn besides a good instrument scan, the ability to recognize when one or more instruments might of failed. It's not a light skill flying. Learn as much as you can and keep learning.
All of these studies seem to set up people for failure. The original 178 second study gave people an overloaded Bonanza with max aft CG, which was barely controllable, and they failed some of the instruments. This study seems to have given people a lot of turbulence and windshear. I understand they are trying to emphasize the dangers of VFR into IMC, but let's have a more realistic scenario please.
Ok, this is rediculous. I have 100 hours, I'm able to execute a 180 turn with no vacuum instruments under the hood. I've done some imc under the supervision of an instrument rated pilot and it's not hard to keep an aircraft flying in the soup. These pilots are a danger to themselves and those on the ground.
I'm like you and maybe our "few" hours is helping us. These pilots have a lot of hours, and so a lot of habits with feelings and sensations of the planes. We are still able to only trust instruments, they are not. Most of them were not able to look only at the attitude indicator and it's the most important instrument to look at. I would be really into passing the same test they did
Perhaps this seems a little harsh, but if you're not an IFR pilot then in my opinion you're not a pilot at all and have NO BUSINESS whatsoever flying an airplane. Weather is unpredictable and even when bad weather is forecast, these cowboys still head out into it, risking the lives of their passengers and those on the ground. It's mind boggling that these "pilots" can log thousands of hours in an airplane and then crash in 200 seconds without VFR conditions. What the hell do you think the instruments are there for anyway?
I cannot believe that that you can be a pilot and not know How to fly Imc... really? This is a travesty needs to stop. Either better instruments or ground all of these so called pilots...
Simulators save lives. Pilots should be allowed unlimited, and sometimes paid for training in simulators. Make it fun. Let them do it drunk, as weird as it sounds, if u can do it after a night at a bar, you can do it under stress.
