Ikr? Goes to show this community never has everything figured out. Even top players were calling both characters low mid tiers post final patch. Crazy.
@@leophyte9663 Mii brawler is still in that up and coming stage. There are some specialist making him work, and ESAM even dabbled with them a bit, but we haven’t seen a breakout performance yet.
Honestly I'd go as far to say Shadic has a case for top 5 right now if we're only looking at 2024 results, but honestly it's not worth having that discussion due to how early it still is into the year and how the rankings can change so much over the course of a weekend.
its worth mentioning that ly sent spargo to the losers bracket with corrin at smashcon too. i didnt even realize how big of an impact corrin had on that tourney til this video.
I love this development. Watching Ultimate was unwatchable when people were still figuring out the Steve matchup. It's exciting that Corrin seems to be the answer to both Steve and Sonic.
Yeah this is actually making me interested in watching ultimate again. G&W and Steve just made this game so boring. Sonix is pretty cool and I like how he uses sonic, but I understand it’s not for everyone.
I don’t mind them as a character, I think the story is the problem, not Corrin. I play her because compared to most FE fighters, she’s stupid fun (preferably the girl, boy Corrin is cringe)
I mean It's not the first time. The best character in Tekken 5 was also named Steve. Oh and Kazuya is the second best character or at least top 5 in that game!!!
this is why i am a fan of "letting it rock" when it comes to balancing, a lot of games nowadays patch stuff way too often as soon as people complain pretty much, just let the game develop over the years please, even when top players think they got it all figured out there's always something new to be learned specially with such large cast of characters
I think Sparg0's status as a Corrin player is slightly overstated given that he only plays the character for a single matchup. An important matchup, sure, but just one, while he uses Aegis for several and Cloud for most.
He also use Corrin against Kazuya. He beat Riddles Kazuya with Corrin at BOBC. Not to mention I'm pretty sure he plays more Corrin than Aegis these days. The last time I remember he play Aegis is against Quik at King Con and Zomba at Genesis. In which he loses to Zomba.
@@Rahildayes you got dismantled because you said "literally nobody" which is untrue because there are some people that play male corrin even if it's less than female
Corrin is really solid which is why I picked her up before release I thought corrin will always an amazing character in ultimate her tipper pin and up air is so good and her bair can be used in disadvantage which is good for getting out of juggles and her dair does amazing work for that as well overall I like to see more wins with corrin I really enjoyed the shadic and neo corrin ditto at genesis it was chef’s kiss and that set alone proved why corrin is a vital threat in today’s meta.
SSC 2023 was eye-opening for all of the above reasons, but also because in addition to everything Neo and Shadic did, Sparg0 himself lost to Ly, playing Corrin, at the same event.
This video is such a coincidence for me. Me and my friends were playing 3 stock randoms I got Corrin abd they got Kazuya And we both talked afterwards about how good that match up felt in Corrin's favor.
Woo!!! As a corrin main, seeing her be up higher in the tier list makes me really happy to see. I hope things stsy as there are if not get better for the character in the game.
because melee people were finding crazy stuff upon crazy stuff from the first year, tech upon tech upon tech . ultimate is tamer, there are more character ,quasi all of them are good but rather straight forward ,there is less depth , so optimising is slower and quieter
I secondaried Corrin in Smash 4 but wrote her off as unenjoyably bad within the first few weeks of Ultimate due to the heavy nerfs. Interesting to see her climb back up.
hey! Just want to point out that instapin is not actually an RPS. There's no hitstun on pin cancel or pin jump, so your opponent can hold buffer jump and consistently punish both options with a landing aerial (depending on the character), as they have zero lag while you're forced through recovery frames.
As a fan of Corrin in Smash and Fates in general, I’m so happy to see this video on my timeline. I always feel like many people pick on Corrin in Smash videos of any kind. PS, Even if Corrin definitely faced a lot of nerfs at Ultimate’s launch, I never felt it was complete overkill to the point where playing as them wasn’t fun, especially compared to Bayonetta.
I been using Corrin since Smash 4, I love this guy! I really hope he comes back in Smash 6, even if I agree he is the absolutely least “needed” fighter.
I don't know about least needed. There's Lucas, every single Xenoblade character. Even Roy and Ike. Especially Roy since his game is the worst selling out of all. Surprisingly Corrin and Fates is one of the best selling games in the franchise. Second only to 3 Houses.
Blows my mind and my penis that this character was broken in Sm4sh, and was immediatelt slept on in release Ultimate until bit by bit patch by patch they went up the tierlist as players realized they were still cracked.
I actually stopped playing smash for traditional fighting games a couple years ago but I was a Corrin main not for anything but I thought dragons are cool and the sword is cool. I remember seeing people put them in mid tier and I didn’t really get it I always found them to be really strong with a cool kit it’s nice to see my old main get some love
I'm practically in the same position, mostly playing other fighting games and playing Smash every once in a while. I always just played characters because I liked how they looked (including Corrin) and still do. Looking back now, it does not surprise me at all that Corrin has top tier potential, especially considering how many good options their kit has
Also worth mentioning that SHADIC recently (I mean like a week ago) won his first major ever at Cirque du CFL on March 10th against MuteAce, and getting 2nd at Collision in the same wqeek.
I saw corrin played before I'd ever known what smash bros was back in middle school when ultimate first came out and I said im gonna main her, I've been a proud corrin main ever since
I pickes Corrin. And they laughed. I kept playing Corrin. Always believing, never regretting my decision. No matter how much people pointed and laughed at me. I kept believing in Corrin.. and it payed off in the end
I do find it entertaining that everyone is using femCorrin yet you refer to masCorrin when referring to the character. Cool video. While I dropped ultimate for Rev 2 and Strive, I still love watching smash videos like this.
I was one of the few people at the start of the game that said Corrin was a high tier and valid character, and all I got was the stink-eye 🙄. Now everyone is on the bandwagon? Proves I am always right in the end. 😂
Corrin is definitely high tier, maybe top of high, but definitely not top tier. There are easy ways to beat corrin. She has too many flaws to be a top tier. Shadic is a great player and so is Neo, that’s why corrin is doing good, not because all of a sudden corrin is top tier. The same type of people thought byleth was top tier just because Leo was winning with him. No byleth is high tier at best, Leo was just better. And now shadic is better playering people. Corrin also has good prominent meta matchups like against game and watch and Steve.
So you have character that gain Consistent major results that are better than all characters in the roster. Beat Steve, Kazuya, GNW and goes even against Sonic. Didn't struggles against random mid tier. And the worst MU is super rare character like Sheikh. But no no no guys. This character is only a High tier. Also making comparisons with Byleth is disingenuous. MKLEO is literally the only Byleth player that gains major success. Corrin has multiple rep that gain insane success. - SHADIC literally only dropped 1 major Top 8 in 2024. And his worst placement is 9th. - Neo has really good results in 2024. Getting 5th at Genesis and King Con. Arguably the top 20 in the world right now. - Carmelo Corrin and Steve co main. who is current top 30 Japanese player right now. - LY pretty good Japanese player. Have decent results and even beat Sparg0 before. So It seems that Corrin is Top 10. Or every player that picked up Corrin happened to be Godlike with the game!!! Which one is the most likely?
@@riqua27 well first off: corrin is not better then all characters in the roster. According to shadic, who is arguably the best corrin, corrin struggles with projectile characters. That’s like half the roster. Second of all, corrin only has 2 reps with any sort of results, and those results are fairly recent. 3rd: Mkleos byleth is a fair comparison because the comparison was not about how many different players got results with one character, it was about how people assume a character is top tier as soon as there is any sort of consistency with a character. People literally thought byleth was a top tier just because Leo kept winning with him. It’s the same exact thing they are doing with corrin now. Shadic and neo are getting some results, and people are already crowning corrin as a top 10 character, give me a break. The reason for corrins rise are not because they are a top 10 character. The reason corrin is on the rise is because he has good matchups against a good portion of the current meta. He beats Steve, game and watch, and sonic. As metas develop and change, so too does the occasional high tier that’s good in that certain meta. Now this may be the current meta, but by no means does that make corrin a top 10 character. Shadic and Neo are great players and they are getting good results both because they are great players, and because the meta is favorable for corrin. As soon as the meta shifts, their results will too. As soon as Leo’s byleth got figured out, well that was the end of that.
@@1stbestpokemaster 1. She did. Look up 2024 Results. No character has more major Top 8 results than Corrin. Yes there are more Corrin In major than Steve, Sonic and GNW. 2. You misrepresented what Shadic said. He didn't say Corrin lose to the projectile character. He said Corrin lost to the EXTREME PROJECTILE character. As in Samus and I guess Dark Samus as well. In his actual MU chart he actually thinks Corrin only loses 6-7 MU. I did ask him about Megaman and he thinks Megaman is fine and it's probably like even MU for Corrin. And it's not even projectiles that make Samus MU hard for Corrin. It's actually the Zair and Ledge trap. Corrin having the fastest dash shield in the game mean projectile was never a big issue. 3. Oh so we're not counting Carmelo now? Also saying it fairly recent is misleading. SHADIC has been doing well since last year. And so does NEO. And also as Comparison. Characters that people usually think are top tier like Roy or Lucina have significantly worse results than Corrin. Like Lucina has 0 top 8 and Roy only has 2 last year. But no guys Corrin is worse than those two. 4. What kind of world do you live in? Nobody thinks Byleth is Top Tier. You can check a lot of Tier lists made in 2021-2022. Even the official tier list. Nobody thinks Byleth is Top tier because People believe MKLEO carried Byleth. The reason why people think Corrin is top tier is because SHADIC isn't the only player that carries Corrin results. 5. And that's kinda the point. If you think Tier list is such a set stone. Why didn't people just make one tier list and be done with it? Why they update the tier list every year? Because meta shift could affect character placements. That's why. And yes I'm not saying there's no chance Corrin will not fall off. But nobody make tier list based on this hypothetical scenario in the future. So as if right now Corrin is definitely top 10. In fact if we go solely on results she should be top 1.
I don't really take tier lists seriously because stuff like this happens. Some random character gets played by someone and do well amd the completely reverses opinions.
08:05 They may be young, but they'd had to have heard about My B. Especially if they had a character ditto fight against each other. That's like saying a kid from NYC born in 2011 may have never heard about 9/11.
Every time I see a video about Corrin and saying that they’re super good I always get worried that folks are suddenly gonna appear and say that I only play as Corrin cuz they’re a really good character now I’ve main Corrin since Smash 4 and all throughout Ultimate - partially cuz of his playstyle and moveset, but also because in Smash, at least to me, Male Corrin (cuz that’s the one I use; I use the red alt) is this dumb goober who just tries his best and I love him for that Also Fates is my favourite FE game so that’s another thing lmao
This is the same game series where people thought Yoshi was bad in both 64 and Melee for over a decade. In a game with more viable characters than players with the skill to win majors, where top reps of many characters don't go to out of region tournaments, where there are so many characters with gimmicks and unconventional movesets, and where there are too many matchups for any one player to know them all the meta will always be an incomplete picture of what game balance is. People could easily stick to this game for another 5-10 years and the meta will keep evolving because the game has ridiculous breadth and respectable depth.
hardly unexpected, just not flashy. She's like Smash 4 ZSS to me, a top tier that requires a rounded out approach and mentality to everything from neutral to combos to spacing, and a lot of awareness to play consistently throughout a bracket, and thus is less popular because the other top tiers have a lot of mindless flowcharts that they follow; higher peaks with lower valleys. Whereas Ult Corrin and 4 ZSS are amazing in their balance and ability to respond to anything with an option that swings things in their favor. You have to be fully present and focused constantly to make them work and that's asking a lot of players actually trying to make it to top 8, but those that do end up with a mental awareness that far exceeds all other character mains, and eventually they start stomping on everyone because their styles and nerves have been honed by the character.
Corrin was my main in smash 4. I stopped using him consistently due to the changes they made to him in ultimate (up special no longer carries his momentum for example). Perhaps I’ll give him another try
In the day and age of balance patches, the fact a community (aka a massive group of people) gets surprised a character can be good after getting buffed is so funny.
Gonna make some predictions of what other characters could see similar success later in the world to come (characters roughly D tier or below from a social standpoint are all by proxy eligible for a renaissance): Pits All 3 links tbh Brawler (it’s been teasing to happen for so long god damn it) Ridley Mii gunner Wii fit trainer Rosa Meta knight
If Steve was banned you know who will be the best character in the game???? That's right it's Sonic. Now tell me which character has the best MU against Sonic??? This is why Corrin is so successful in the meta. She's not just good against 1 specific top tier. She's good against all of them!!!!
Imma be honest: I don't exactly see the corrin potential. I'm not saying this to discredit the players in any way (in case someone somehow thought that's what I was saying), but in my eyes she's not only mid tier, but is legitimately redundant next to byleth, who has many straight up better tools. Both have an amazing uair for juggles but byleth's is more active and kills MUCH earlier, both have good ledge trapping and 2-frames but byleth again hits harder, byleth has a better recovery and projectile, she has a better nair, MUCH better grounded normals, there are just so many better tools that seem significantly better then what corrin has. On the other side, corrin has slightly better mobility (though it still isn't great), better bair (not that byleth's was bad, though this is still significant because corrin bair is a top 3 bair), maybe better fair (trades range for being larger overall and starting combos), and pin. Overall, byleth just seems to have generally superior tools and the things corrin is better at are not so much better that they offset the other issues. Maybe I'm missing something, if there are other corrin mains better than me who have more insight on this then feel free to prove me wrong, but the only thing I'm seeing is two character specialists being very good at the game while everyone else immediately assumes the character must be broken.
One really important aspect of Corrin that hasn't been mentioned in your post or the video is that they are tied with sheik for the fastest dash into shield in the game. This gives a skilled Corrin an incredibly powerful defensive tool to basically shield whenever they want to even as they're dashing around. Shadic is especially good at utilizing this to get a lot of pairries that lead to an easy BnB combo for 30-50%. Another thing is that Corrin has a much better 2 frame tool in instapin than byleth: byleth literally has nothing close to that without needing to commit. The last advantage i can think of is the fact that corrin also has a shield break/poke setup with charged fsmash that's quite practical in tournament if you condition opponents to shield (easy to do as corrin). All this is not to say there way better than Byleth, but I think that there are enough demonstrable advantages in the character to argue that they're not just a redundant pick. Edit: also, looking at your post I strongly disagree about Byleth having better grounded normals. Sure, their tilts are good poke tools, but corrin's fault does the same whereas utilt is a big anti-air that comes out around frame 7 and dtilt comes out frame 5 and leads to BnB combos or even kills.
I feel like you're comparing 2 characters that are completely and have different gameplans. And even then a lot of your comparison are either wrong or just a misunderstanding. The biggest thing corrin has is pin, which is an amazing move and arguably a top 10 move in the game. Its a kill move in multiple ways, a combo finisher, a mix up tool, a 2 frame tool, a mobility tool, and a pressure tool for shields and for disadvantage. Its a swiss army knife of moves and its value cannot be understated. As for "similar moves", one I want to note is up air as it acts completely differently from byleth and is far better at what it does. As you mentioned, it is a kill move but it is also what forces the frame traps, juggles, and 50/50s that corrin has. This is without mentioning its massive arc, how safe it is on shield, and the fact that its also a combo starter at low to mid percents. Both its range and active frames are deceptive and can often times catch the opponent off guard (also iirc its landing frames have corrin low profile but I could misremembering). Corrin's bair is also significantly better as you mentioned not only for how early it can kill but its range plus its ability to auto space (which also helps for the fact its -8 when used perfectly). Her other aerials you've already mentioned, dait can be used at the ledge to stuff recoveries and nair and fair are just combo tools, both of which can true combo into bair, up air, or even pin to kill. Finally corrin's grounded normals are weird. Her jab is kinda ass (its negative on hit sometimes for some reason) but her other moves are super good. Dtilt is a free combo starter after 10% and leads into mix ups prior. Both up and down tilt at later percent leads to juggles, frame traps, and 50/50s, or just a kill combo in the case of down tilt. F tilt is a kill move at later percent, nothing special (similar to byleth f tilt actually). Her smash attacks though is where its at. D smash and up smash are actually deceptively strong attacks that cover more than one would think, and f smash is arguably the best f smash in the game due to the charging hitbox which can break shields ir catch ledge options (if used at the ledge, it can catch neutral, jump, and possibly roll in depending on how you positioned yourself). Some other things to note is corrin does have significantly better mobility, largely in part to pin, which bolsters her mobility by a ton. does not have a great grab game as there are no combo throws but the throws do put the other player into disadvantage, which is where corrin is at her strongest. Corrin also has 2 kill throws in down and up throw but up throw is far more reliable at killing than down and it will usually between 120-70 depending on stage, character, rage, and staleness. Corrin's recovery is definitely worse but its still not bad, just very linear but it has mix ups you can do with it (e.g. kalos with its walls to pin, using neutral special to stall). Speaking of neutral special, its a very good move that can kill very early, is good for mix ups (especially with a b reverse), and can be used to combo into pin to kill. I might've missed some things (almost certainly have) but thats basically it.
There are two kinds of low tier players, people who love their character aesthetically or functionally and will take the hit willingly, and people who know something we don't.
Not that I think they're top tier, but as a Shulk player I've always found the Corrin matchup...irritating. They have the up air I wish I had and the slightly faster frame data is enough to stuff me out if I'm not constantly spacing perfectly.
That's Cap. You can place High with mid tier. But getting that level of Consistency is a different thing. Why do you think Skyjay results are all over the place? One week he top 8 major another week he got 65th.
I always feel like i can't really screw up with Corrin, her attacks are pretty large and can even give movement options, she's got some good kill, but her annoyingness is top tier.
