@@ashutoshjha9147there's a reason for that. Intel has to support Windows, Mac, Linux all could be native boot from a single device. Now with ARM, you are supporting one architecture per OS. People simply blame Intel for not improving.
Yeah your goat couldn't beat AMD in the laptop market, so they turned to bullying a rookie who specializes in producing phone chips and has just started producing laptop chips very funny
For the Snapdragon naming scheme, it's absolutely terrible but it's fairly easy to get used to; X1 : Generation E/P : Tier, Elite/Plus 78 : SKU, higher is better. 84 is the fastest with 3.8 GHz base clocks, 4.2 GHz boost and 4.6 TFLOPS iGPU. 80 is slightly slower with 3.4 GHz base clock, 4.0 GHz boost and 3.8 TFLOPS iGPU. 78 is the slowest with 3.4 GHz base clocks, no boost and 3.8 TFLOPS iGPU 100 : "variant" as Qualcomm calls it. Unsure of what it'll be used for, they're all 100 atm but could be changed in case of a refresh or something
Qualcomm has always been good at dropping the diss track but has yet to show up with a device worth using. Signed, a Surface RT and Surface Pro X sucker. I might get excited after I see 3rd party benchmarks this time...
@@FakeGordonMahUng I sure hope so. They hired a bunch of folks who know what they are doing and their recent mobile parts have been formidable. I've just been burned enough times now that I'm looking for the 'show me' first this time
@jmanakajosh9354 if the device is worth using I'm willing to believe that devs will use it themselves which will naturally drive native adoption. But it has to be an actual workstation, not a glorified RU-vid player
Super useful video. Saved a ton of time vs pulling all specs by myself on newly announced laptops. Plus the very useful preview of Lunar Lake. All with Gordon's subtle humor.
I'm just happy to see Gordon. It makes me happy to see him more and more involved with the show. I'm hopeful that it means he's doing better and better.
It's a long time we seeing you Gordon! Also at 30:52 it seems that Vietnam is going to receive the Snapdragon X Elite version, based on the promotional banner there.
I'm optimistic, but I'd probably wait until more concrete Lunar Lake info appears and if AMD shows any cards too. Either way, with three vendors fighting it out for the PC, that's good for consumers and good for performance fans too.
@@FakeGordonMahUng I'm hoping more laptop manufacturer start to use it in all their laptop segments in the future. Upgradable LPDDR5 RAM is truly a game changer
The more AI is mentioned, the more my eyes glaze over. I can't imagine the majority of laptop buyers really caring about it either. Mind you, I do UI/UX design, development work with a bit of photo and video editing.
I watched Intel's claims with sorrow. I kept saying "it's too late".. Intel deserved this long ago. They milked ancient x86 design too long. Snapdragon's chip does not have to be as fast as M3, or Meteor Lake. If it is fast enough and translation layer is good enough with the support of device drivers, if I can work 10 hours continuously without fan noise, for me x86 is over. I am really sick of x86 based laptops but I have to use them. I would prefer MacBook's any day if I didn't have to use Windows. I am also sick of this Lake word..
I'm currently using a Lenovo LOQ16 which features an AMD 7840HS with an IPU. I've had it about six months and Lenono still haven't enabled the IPU feature of the CPU for some reason. 😞 Hopefully their Arm versions don't suffer the same neglect.
Good to see you Gordon. Only hardware nerds are interested in ARM on PC or even locally run AI. We still have no "must have" AI applications to get anyone excited, and while Apple may have a stranglehold on it's cult members and can force a migration to ARM architecture, when you have to drop to an emulation layer even the mighty M chips lose their luster fast. As soon as the normal consumer learns what that "ARM" sticker means on their laptop it will be a bigger death sentence to sales than an "Arc Graphics Inside" sticker. Qualcomm better be ready to make a huge investment to pay software developers to make custom versions of software to take advantage of ARM and do it for years if they want a foothold in the PC market. I have more than a few old apps that still work perfectly on x86 and haven't been updated in many years. I won't trust a migration to ARM to be seamless and I'll only give up my x86 compatibility when I simply have no choice.
I agree. it's a multi year, if not multi decade push to make inroads here. There are some decent software wins already though with Davinci and Adobe products. I wonder if this time it'll be different than even six years ago because people simply do a lot less locally on laptops too. I often think most people consumers can get by with a Chromebook because they use them like Chromebooks for the most part, but they want Windows because they have an investment in Windows. I'm not sure consumers will turn their nose up at Arm inside--rather than most consumers look for "Intel Inside" due to the decades and decades of brand equity Intel has. But yeah, it would be hard to switch on the PC given we have so many choices and x86 gives you the widest compatibility with apps too. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Strong disagree on Apple's wrapper for M-series x86 emulation. Rosetta Stone was coded with the sacrificed souls of their engineers because it works so seamlessly it's practically native. Microsoft does not have the same pull to force developers to update their apps or anticipate the even wider array of programs and functions that will be broken with their wrapper, even presuming it has similar performance.
@@davidmalkowski7850 I couldn't hear you over Apples pathetic 14% market share, horrible pricing, and inability to play games. Apple fanboys don't measure benchmarks. They buy what their savior Tim tells them is the best. One of my colleagues that's in market research recently told me that x86 Apple products have a far higher resale value than ARM, just proving there are a few Apple users that still appreciate true x86 compatibility.
@@FakeGordonMahUng It will especially be difficult if ARM laptops are this expensive. The overwhelming majority of laptop users don't look at battery life numbers and Davinci Resolve benchmarks. They look at _PRICE_ first and foremost. If they want $1100-$1600 for an APU I don't see that selling very well when you can find x86 machines with a dedicated GPU for under $1k. But ask yourself. Who's the most prevalent "power user" that's going to be comparing benchmarks?......Gamers. You'll notice there's not a single gaming benchmark anywhere in the mix. Gaming is super sensitive to any kind of latency and having to emulate x86 is going to kill gaming on ARM unless your playing Candy Crush.
I think the big advantage of the Intel chips is that it still uses the x86-64 registers, which means the current version of Windows 11 and Windows apps will still (mostly) take full advantage of the hardware registers on the CPU.
Nice to see Gordon doing videos! As far as these Snapdragon X laptops, they seem a bit underwhelming to me. Not enough gaming performance for the price.
Not sure if you made a video about that already but I'm not interested in any of that if compatibility is still in question. Like apps or games crashing or not even being able to start due to the different architecture. If that's not cleared up beforehand these products just aren't relevant to me at all.
The biggest concern for 99% of business customers will be stability and compatibility with existing software. Not a lot of information on this out there. Not one of my customers will take a chance on this.
Qualcomm elite x hype will die faster if they are still delayed it, Intel Lunar Lake also will not make it easy for apple m4. Meanwhile Amd looks like they don't have ultra low power cpu to competes with arm or Intel Lunar Lake and it seems like Amd going to stuck on high power cpu when everyone making much more power efficient cpu. Very exciting to see Intel Lunar Lake, when it launched it will proof anyone that x86 CPU can be as efficient as ARM.
Great overview. I wish we could see more AMD laptop options. Dell is known to avoid their products due to preexisting agreements with other suppliers. Or they only use the worst AMD products in their worst laptop designs. I always like the HP x360/spectre laptops
I have no insight into the internal agreements, but Dell has been offering Ryzen products for a while now I believe--just not in the XPS 13. There is a hard truth that I hear from a lot of laptop makers and that is consumers still value Intel over AMD despite performance or battery life and it has been difficult for them to sell regular consumers a laptop with an AMD CPU inside of it for as much as Intel laptops. That has changed as originally AMD laptops started at much lower prices but eventually reached parity. As we know from desktop, it takes several generations to change consumer perception of a brand so it'll be a long, long fight.
The number of cores matters because if the snapdragon can barely keep up with the base M3 that was released a year ago then what’s gonna happen when the M4 macs release this fall 💀
The question of eGPUs is really simple to answer - have you ever seen Nvidia, AMD or Intel offer ARM drivers? No? It won't support any eGPU. It can probably talk to it via PCIe, you won't get any use out of it because you will not have drivers for them.
Every time i see a comment sayin gordon... All i think is. "Freeeemaaaan, it, appears that you have some, unfinished business, at black mesa, have you not?" =P
Yeah when intel says "better" without at least 1 exact number or benchmark means they are basically slower in every way. It's crazy how good their legal team is that they can literally tell the opposite of the truth without legally lying.
Why on earth do laptop venders think it's alright to charge for qualcomm laptops the same amount they would for x86 laptops? The leaks from Dell show that they are getting Qualcomm chips for a lot less than they would intel. If I were to buy a Qualcomm laptop, I would feel ripped off if I paid anything close to an x86 laptop. I get that there are added expenses when designing a new motherboard/cooling setup but a lot of it can be recycled from previous products. At least reduce the price by some amount. They just look greedy here. edit: also I hope you're feeling well Gordon.
That isn't clear but companies like money for one. I do wonder if they were encouraged to price them as premium products because that impacts perception. Something seen as lower in price can make people perceive it as not as good. I think we will find out when we see how they handle non native code. If it's bad, then it's a problem. If it's decent, then maybe people will embrace it for the battery life advantage. We just gotta wait and see at this point. Also, thanks!
Actually, AMD launched its Ryzen 5 7640U and Ryzen 7 7840U laptop processors with NPUs a year ago and have had them in laptops well before Intel. So Qualcomm and Intel are both just playing catch up with AMD when it comes to Windows laptops.
These specs feel underwhelming compared to the competition, but oddly priced close them. Hopefully they get repriced back to reality to compensate for all the tradeoffs you lose vs x86 pc platforms
Intel was criticized hard for Meteor Lake, because the consumers only saw better performance per watt. It was the best bet they could have made, redesign most from scratch to focus in power efficiency and scalability. Meteor Lake is impressive, and Lunar Lake builds on top of that.
Until we see third party x86/Win32 performance this is all just marketing bullshit. The biggest problem with the PC are the windows developers that half-ass everything combined with the hard manufacturers that ship deficient silicon and expect to fix it with driver patches. The lack of third party benchmarks screams volumes that this launch is a fail.
I dunno. There are some real perf claims being made that have been cleared by lawyers so it is unlikely those are baloney. We're now seeing real battery perf claims which look decent too (detailed in the video) but yes, I agree. With something so new, we want to see it verified by outsiders. My concern is translation/emulation of non native applications. Previously, it's been pretty horrible. The world is different now and there are more native Arm apps but that's what I need to see. If it's bad, then it's hard to chose Arm over x86.
im fine with 30% slower performance, at least the battery now can last tripple, compare to x86 that needs more juice to fill in the performance and ended up lasting 4 hours...
@@FakeGordonMahUng I think if there is hardware worth actually using that developers will build arm-native stuff. The problem is that nothing ARM yet has been worth using as a developer platform, which has made getting developers to care about it hard.
When you go down a design route, you don't pivot away immediately. It'll be failure if the next iteration of the XPS 13 does away with the touch escape for a physical button. But we'll see. Dell could also do it again which would indicate the outcry wasn't as bad as some thought it was.
@@FakeGordonMahUng It's completely possible that they have data that office drones don't need the real keys. Perhaps Dell simply doesn't care about my fingers and how they operate. Perhaps i'm just out of touch. I've become so old that all reason has been tossed out the window. 😎
When intel going to produce arm based processors? Or,Are they going to make better their existing x96 based processors? Is arrow Lake going to be arm based processor or x86 processor?
The chips costs half of their intel counterparts and OEMs are trying to play apple and scam their customers 😂😂 It costs even more than a MacBook dont want to know the price of the 1/32 config... 2 years ago i bought a acer for 649 incl 32gb ram and i upgrade 2 nvmes plus a SSD with 11400h plus 3050 and intel lan and WiFi chipsets
Same arch, but unlike every other time they tried to sell you a rebranded cellphone processor, this design is much larger and folds in far more components and cache. They did the work Apple did to change A series mobile chips into M series laptop chips.
I don't think Intel gets it. Sure any company can add NPUs to their laptops. But what makes Qualcomm's laptops interesting has nothing to do with the NPUs, it has everything to do with an ARM based cpu that runs cooler meaning more headroom with less thermal throttling, something Intel's X86 cpu's CAN'T due no matter how many they've sold.
Intel, when comparing to AMD, is only slightly faster. Which means that Zen 5 will trump it. And the leaks say that Zen 5 will also be launched in Q3, with better availability than Lunar Lake. I'm also surprised that Lunar Lake is said to be launched in Q3, but Arrow Lake in Q4, even though the leaks say that Arrow Lake has Alchemist+, not Battlemage. I'd be surprised if Lunar Lake doesn't just do a paper launch in the last week of Q3. And I can't wait to see Arrow Lake, to see if the rentable units work and all that jazz. And hopefully decent support for 128 GB of RAM (at like 6000 MT/s, not 4000 MT/s, almost DDR4 speeds like it is right now). With CAMM2. Still, as it is, I am excited of Lunar Lake. In the comparison at the end vs Meteor Lake, it says that Lunar Lake is 17W while the Meteor Lake is 15W. We have to remember that now that 17W also includes the RAM, while those 15W on Meteor Lake don't include it. Lunar Lake should really perform excellent for light to medium tasks, like actually be silent, cool and last long. And should be good for handhelds too. This is the closest design to what Apple has with the M chips, and part of their battery performance is also because of things like onboard RAM, not just from being ARM. Lunar Lake with a well tuned Linux should be able to compete with M4 on all fronts. At least I hope. A note on Snapdragon and their decision to only have P cores - the cynic in me says that it's because of Windows. Getting close to 3 years since Windows 11 launched, and it STILL has problems with P vs E cores and normal vs X3D cores on AMD. Absolute clown show from Microsoft who can't get a scheduler right after so much time and help from both Intel and AMD. Why do you think that Intel launched APO ? So, smartly, Qualcomm said to simply dodge the bullet and just have one type of cores so the caveman OS can handle it properly. They have enough risks with Rosetta like translation working right, integration with peripherals and so on, no need to take a battle when not needed. I can't wait to see them all launched and see how they actually work. And then to see Framework have a model for them. Maybe I'll finally get to replace my almost 8 years old laptop. Hopefully. Also curious how they will fare in Linux. It might come as shocking, but Windows and Microsoft don't impress me much nowadays.
Seriously ? They call an 85 MB Excel file "large". How lucky. Where I work, we are all base users, so the "large files" are more around 150MB on average.
I have an Excel eSports spreadsheet that is real world and it's a major gut punch to open and recalc. It is interesting that it has that kind of advantage on Snap X though... I do wonder if it's optimizations in the Arm-version of Office 365 at play as well or simply the boost speed of the Intel chip nerfed on battery. We'll find out when we see Snapdragon X laptops in the wild...
@@FakeGordonMahUng Both I think. In 2021 I was working on an iMac at work and Windows at home. The same file on an USB key. Mini database type file with only 2 data sheets worth 20 x 500 cells and survey form below 200 lines. On Windows, I could scroll up, down, right and left all the way smoothly. On the iMac, I had to wait for each additional line or column to load. Because, i think, off screen datas were "off" and needed to be loaded even when you scrolled back. I believe the issue stemmed from iOS optimization to lessen the loads on CPU. Which is good for mobile devices and as long as you only work on small files. My colleague acquired an M1 McBook a few month later and the problem didn't occurred. It also mean Apple didn't bother fixing the issue on the iMac of that time while they could on a less powerful mobile device.
44:02 Didn't they literally say that about Meteor Lake? I mean it was a pretty good uplift in efficiency and gaming, and definitely a step in the right direction, but it barely beat out last gen in raw performance if I remember correctly I think Intel should focus on actually delivering instead of making outrageous claims. Of course, these claims havent been proven false, and we need to see if its actually true at the event, but Intel doesn't have a strongest track record of keeping promises... Either was, I hope the best for them, Qualcomm and AMD. In the end, the consumer is the one who actually matters.
True, but consider that Meteor Lake was a new architecture redesign literally from scratch focused on power efficiency. And they did achieve that, it was a risky move for Intel, many things could have gone wrong. Consider that Lunar Lake builds on top of that, and because its design its now tile based, its a lot easier to drop the new cores. If people would take the time to read how meteor lake works and its redesign. People would have better faith on Intel. This Qualcomm hype is Microsoft slapping Apple in the face and stop their marketshare growth.
@@MrPtheMan I mean you do have a pretty good point. I'm not disagreeing with you. The problem is, even though meteor lake was marketed to be this new 'revolutionary' architecture that was gonna change the PC Landscape, it really didn't do all that much. It did show that Intel was willing to care about power efficiency, but it didn't quite 'revolutionize' the industry as they hoped. I feel like Lunar Lake is their second attempt at bringing their so called 'revolution', and Intel also seems to be pretty damn confident about it, so maybe it could be the revolution? Idk, its Intel man, anything could happen with them at this point.
@auritro3903 yeah, the advertising was wrong, I do understand why they did it with AI buzzwords. They should just make a strong statement about power efficiency and battery life. But AI is moving the industry and marketed that way. Yesterday, the benchmark of the snapdragon came out, it doesn't blow intel out of the water. Sometimes, it has advantages. Sometimes it doesn't. But it's not a silent, cool cpu for thin and light as they painted it, its competitive in some areas. But Lunar Lake is around the corner too, and that's really Intel centrino moment. If they fail, well haha that's its only golden ticket to save mobile. But Intel is in a good position as Intel is bringing a software solution for AI, and it's never about the hardware it's also software. I think Microsoft made things worse with Windows ARM, all this Qualcomm hype is to stop Apple from stealing marketshare with it's M series. But whatever you do for ARM aka run x86 perfectly on emulation with no major performance hit, Apple also benefits as Apple users run Parallels for Windows ARM. So why buy something like Microsoft Surface that wants to be a Apple like product, which Microsoft Surface will not be cheap, why not just buy the real deal with better perks with Apple's Macbooks? They run both macos and windowsos. Their hardware accelerators make it also one of the best laptops for content creation, best battery life and performance, relative to each other. Windows ARM with x86 emulation prism will haunt MS in the long run, as they will lose mindshare.
