SNS 299: Shaper Lifting, Steady rest Mount, New Electric Circuits 

I have never felt I could criticize anything you have ever done, but I feel obliged to note that supporting the shaper on the front and back is likely to result in serious damage to the machine. It needs to be supported throughout the whole length and width of the base and it needs to be bolted to the floor. Our shapers were always mounted on cement foundations, about 20 cm high and bolted at all four corners. I am certain you will be heartbroken if you cause damage to that beautiful machine. Just supporting it that way even without running it can cause permanent warping of the base plate.

Back in the early 90's I worked as a Millwright setting up equipment in a local Incinerator - I used to align couplings between BIG motors and large fans, pumps, lube-oil skids, etc - and eventually do all the pre-service to the Steam Turbine and Generator that weighed many Hundreds of Tons- Typically big equipment like that we would have had big bolts ("L" Shaped) cast into the concrete, with nuts and big flat washers on them, lowered the equipment down onto the studs embedded into the concrete, down onto those 6 mounting holes, used the nuts and washers to lift the machine and level it, usually leaving at least a 1 to 2 inch gap underneath. installing nuts and flat washers on the top side (of your 6 holes) and then a form would be made around it and they would pump high tensile strength, fibre reinforced grout under the entire machine. Before the grout was fully cured the forms would be removed and the concrete finishing crew would come and carve it when it was like clay consistency and it would be trimmed and contoured to the base of the machine, wiped down with wet sponges and covered in strips of wet burlap to keep it from drying too quick and cracking- Your machine would NOT move then- LOL

I leveled all the new and old machine tools at Caterpillar between 1973 and 2000 when I retired. Bldg B Drive train Division. Get rid of the wood... They need to be lagged to the concrete with metal shims or blocks used to level the machine. The large machines had machine jacks that adjusted for elevation like an adjustable parallel.

Hi Adam, I thought I'd just mention that since my last comment on SNS 298, I have now watched a 100 SNS's (from 200 to 299) over the last couple of weeks. Lock-down in South Africa really sucks but over this boring period, you have really kept me entertained all the way. Our lock-down has been extended by another two weeks (still three weeks to go) and I'm sure there are still much video content to keep me busy and entertained. You have come a long way and no matter all the critique you get from some viewers, you definitely know what you're doing, know exactly where you're going and just keep it up and do what you do best. As commented before, I just love the "Old School" type tools and machining and enjoy watching you use and perform it so effectively. Keep up the good work buddy and please ensure you work safe at all times !!

The first time I saw the G&E shaper I knew this machine rocks 🤘🏼 😀

Good to see Adam smile. Just watched his first video. Then and now Best Machining Show on RU-vid.

I am so pleased that you continue to honor your father and grandfather with the closing picture. We are a product of our raising, our values come for the most part from what we learned as a child. God's Blessing to you.

I enjoy watching your channel. I used to setup injection moulding machines, and I used anti vibration pads that are adjustable for machine levelling. They do not require bolting to floor. They through bolt in the holes in the base.

Hey Adam, I love the content of your videos, it's great to see an engineer that does it right...… that said, I would be concerned setting the shaper on just 3 points, she's a heavy old girl and needs plenty of support and a more solid footing would be better. You could try setting her down on six points on adjustable feet, there are many different ways to do this but to suit your needs (as in perhaps needing to move her around, you could use the 2 part tapered type with metal blocks underneath and rubber pads to stop any slipping, that way you could have her set on six points and still be able to move her if required..... Great layout in your workshop.... looking forward to more videos!....

Thanks for the videos. I never worked on metal, but I enjoy watching your work, and learning.

Thanks for the update. Beats the boredom of the 21 day lockdown down here in South Africa.

I'd completely avoid travelling and meeting other people at the moment Adam. Social distancing isn't enough, especially in confined spaces where aerosols can linger. We are experiencing hearbreak here in the UK with lots of young fit people dying from the disease. Nobody is immune and it's very easy to catch. Please make sure you're taking precautions. I'd hate to see the ABOM brand go under... good luck over the next 4-5 months!

Adam, I spent a career maintaining and rigging Machine tools. I do not recommend using wood. We routinely used steel shim stock. Rarely did we ever anchor a machine with this weight. It is not terribly difficult to level a machine of this size with shim stock to within .0005"/foot. Level isn't necessary on your machine, but being level could enhance machining set up. I trusted shim stock leveling for years of high production use. If you want to get really fancy, consider making leveling jack screws and pads with a detent or counterbore to keep the pads in place under the screw. Grouting is a superior method once leveling is complete, but repositioning the machine then becomes problematic. I really like using the mill for outboard lathe stick out support.

Many times I have drilled and sunk anchor bolts in my concrete garage floor in order to anchor and level heavy machines. When I wanted them in another place I simply use an angle grinder to take the unwanted bolts down to floor level. You can patch the concrete if the aesthetics bother you. Much better than "living with" a 2-3 thousandths rocking motion. If your're going to do it...do it right!!

Mine rocks slightly as well. I have shims under it at the moment. Thanks for sharing Adam.

Adam, I had a 10 ft. Hydro Shear that was installed on a slightly uneven concrete floor. An old timer friend of mine told me to set it on one or two pieces of sheet lead (if you can find some). We did and it nested itself right in. I realize that the forces on your machine are horizontal where mine were vertical, but with a shear the blade the adjustments were very critical. Good luck buddy, and take care!

Adam I think a lot of people on here don't get you, I am in the uk & we had a guy called Fred Dibnah, he loved the old Victorian machinery & steam engines, he was responsible for the salvation of a lot of "worthless junk" its part of our heritage & just because it seems slower or clumsy to others, you can see history & a real attachment to obtaining perfect results when you did not have to just press the button on a cnc. I applaud you Abom!

One other thing to worry about, as if you don't have enough. Should you decide to convert more machines to 480vac and find yourself turning the x-former breaker on and off more often, make sure the breaker is switch rated. If it isn't put a disconnect switch or contactor on the line side of the x-former.

Always a pleasure to spend some virtual time with you.

Hi Adam, When I was installing printing presses my level was accurate to 0.02mm in one meter and machine had no tolerance to be out of level. What I will recommend you do is use the timbers at each end (possibly go to hardwood) and place a shim plate of approx., 6"x8"at each corner of maybe .050" thick between timber and machine, you only want machine to rest on corners, not in middle of timber, then take reading with indicator while machine is running. You will likely still have some movement, now what you will do is try to determine what corner is loose by tapping timber with a hammer and shim loose corner accordingly (this may only be a few thousandths depending on how loose) until you have all corners tight and no more movement on indicator. I hope this helps Adam and thanks for all your videos. Ray

I really love when Adam is taking his time to do something properly and accurately - no matter if it's machining job or just aligning piece of wood under the shaper. This really has to be a sign of exquisite work ethic.

That is a mighty nice pic. at the end of your video....You got that shop set very well my....Friend thank for the upload...l am 78 years old now can't do much anymore....But love watching you do things l used to do......Thanks my young friend again...!

I believe you might want to support each corner separately,then measure for blocks in the middle. I would be afraid of putting undo stress on the middle without support there. Better save than sorry!

Machine 6”. Diameter disks and drill and tap for studs. Epoxy disks to foot and bolt machine in place. If you need to move it after you can heat the disks and break the epoxy bond and move it. No holes in concrete required.

Awesome updates Adam. You are really get setup to go to town on some machining can't wait to see all the machines in action. Wish i lived down there i would go out and find you enough work to keep you covered up and in the shop all day every day. LOL Stay Safe. Stay Healthy. God bless our country during these changing times!!!

Something tells me it's not a good thing to leave middle of the base hanging in air like that. Six adjustable Abom-size feets would be a lot better/safer.

Single-phase motors have a secondary phase coil which usually uses a motor starting capacitor to get it spinning, and that Davis cutter's motor may have a blown capacitor which may be why it is just sitting there humming rather than spinning. Check the capacitor and replace if that is the case.

I love the photo of you and your dad and your grandad. It is a great one. That pic should be dominating a wall.

I enjoy watching you work with your machines. I miss working in the shop, it shut down years ago around 2001. I was a machine operator/ apprentice machinist. I would either machine the parts I needed or tell them what I needed, if it was to complicated or required too much time. This Brings back some good memories! :-)

Sorry mate, that is not the way to level a machine tool. you should have six points of contact, the corners + centre each side to eliminate the base sagging, (it can happen, believe me) level machine with steal or brass shim stock then bolt the machine down with foundation bolts.

Adam, during the mid-eighties, I was part of a crew of dismantlers under contract with Seaboard Coastline Railroad to divest their Port Boca Grande FL. location of all equipment. Port Boca Grande, located on Gasparilla Island about 100 miles south of Tampa, predated electricity's availability on the island. Therefore, a steam-powered generator was located at the port in the same building that housed a large and very capable shop filled with common shaft powered machinery, all of which was bedded in a mortar to compensate for the floor's unevenness. We were treated to a tour of and allowed several weeks to use the still fully functional, albeit now commonly electrified, shop to build gantries and the like. All the machines were rock stable. No judgment and your mileage may vary, just sharing some wisdom from the past. I greatly enjoy your channel, carry on sir.

Also once it’s set where you want gently tap in a couple wedges in the center with a dead blow not enough to lift it just enough to support so it doesn’t sag in the middle over time.

As others have said the motor is most likely the start windings. the soft wood on the shaper is simply a bad idea, use steel plates if you must have it off of the floor or hard wood, then you should shim it, the plates and shims should extend outside the base by 30 to 50mm, avoid edge to edge. It will take an age but will be worth it. Looking forward to SNS300 next week.

You really should have the shaper supported in the middle. that base looks too thin to support the weight of the superstructure. As you said yourself, it should really be grouted all round - in other words supported all over. You should indicate the mid point of the base and see what it is doing.

Aren't you afraid of cracking the base casting by not supporting the center?

When not pushing for product count, old way relaxing steady, no stress work.. Always enjoy reading shop experts(?) comments!!

I sat my shaper down on one of those horse mats from Tractor supply and it levels out nicely. The bottom of my shaper was slightly bowed as well and it rock some. THe horse mat fixed that issue real quick.

Don’t worry about people making bad comments to you, it’s your work and screw what they think. I have never did any kind of that work and really like watching your videos.

It is dangerous to leave a gap under the machine above the height of the boots toe.

Really like the type of video shooting you did for this video Adam; kind of just felt more familiar and relaxed walking around in the shop than having the camera stationary all the time. Should keep that up for some future SNS

So, if it's heavy through the middle, wouldn't bracing the ends only eventually cause the center to sag a bit and cause wear on the front and back of the ram ways?

you can see the base flex when you jacked it up from the back, i dont think the base is strong enough to use only support on the front and back

Here's an idea for mounting your shaper. I've used truck tire retread throwoffs I picked up on the freeway under my machines. I cut them on my bandsaw into squares of the size I want and place them at mounting points under the machine. They work great and absorb vibrations while compensating for an uneven floor. I've also drilled holes in them for mounting my air compressor to the floor. Keep in mind you'll destroy your bandsaw blade cutting through the steel cord in the tread.

Absolutely loved this video Adam. Thank you for taking us with you on your journey. 👍🏻

If you need any electrical help, let me know. I am an Electrical Engineer working with National Aerospace Solutions. I would recommend that the keyseater be provided with 230 or 240 volts as there are inherent voltage drop in all electrical systems. I have recently been involved in installing large motors (5000 HP) that are rated at 6600 volts, but are supplied with 6900 volts. Also, DO NOT run the keyseater until it is freely rotating. Locked rotor current is much higher than full load current and will quickly damage a motor (if damage did not occur already). Ensure that all wiring has proper ampacity (current carrying capacity) and sized according to NFPA 70 (National Electric Code). Let me know if you have any questions, comments, etc.

Pour some lapping paste on the floor, and lap the underside of the G&E. It would make a perfect base for it to rest on. LOL ;)

All of our old shapers were all anchored to the floor. You could keep it elevated like you have it but use heavy duty planer jacks to support the areas no covered by the 3 point setup. You can run them up to where they just have slight pressure and lock them in to keep them from turning.

I ran a plywood hotmelt edge bander that had a cutoff wheel that moved front to back following the piece moving through to cut off the applied edging. it was on a pneumatic ram and wasn't that big. But over time, after running for days and weeks and months, it moved that huge 12' long cast iron machine to the point it almost broke the air line coming from the floor. If it even moved a .00001 every time it cycled, add all that up over time and it moved inches. So if it's not bolted down, it will walk around the shop.

Hey Adam, don't you think you should support the shaper in the middle too?

Won't leaving the machine unevenly unsupported across the whole base cause the shaper to bow causing you to lose level? Plus the machine is still moving which like it or not is going to affect the accuracy of your cuts. Brother in my humble opinion you should just bite the bullet and lag it in. Even if you leave the wood under it, you can use adjust the lag bolt pressure to level the machine. Go big or go home :)

Ideally 3 point on each side 4 end support points + 2 central. Keith Rucker's design is good and functional for big heavy machines worth a word with him.

"Finally got all my machines ready to go." I recall you having a radial arm drill under a tarp. I hope that's still in the works!

Use solid (not wood) footings that will suit the machinery mounting pads under each tie-down point and then shim the thing into a stable and level condition is my suggestion.. That method provides the maximum stability for the machine while compensating for the less-than-perfect concrete flooring. It also allows the machine to be moved and re-shimmed at some future point. (I worked in the oil/gas/power generation field and installed LOT of heavy equipment!) ;) Thanks for all the neat videos!

You might think about fabbing up two steel rails drilled and tapped for anchor bolts and grouting those rails in level and coplaner to each other then mounting the machine to those rails. This would allow you to unbolt and move the machine should you need to but provide a solid and flat connection to the concrete. I see a lot of industrial machines mounting in this way.

1" thick hard rubber pads on the corners of the machine work great and it takes up a lot of vibration.

Love your channel. You might want to look into self leveling epoxy. It can be costly, but will solve your uneven floor, reduce the risk of your concrete eroding further, and provide chemical resilience. I’ve done this for machine shops out here on the west coast.

I must've been dreaming because, for a minute there, I thought I saw Abom cutting timber. 😁

I'll admit I was curious if you were getting any significant deflection at the mid mounting points on the shaper, with the 3-point base support? Since it was designed for 6-point securement, and since it's a long, heavy machine, I'd double-check what the unsuppored middle is doing. It might be interesting to put 3 indicators on the base simultaneously, one each front, middle, and rear, and watch the pattern of motion between the indicators.

Hey I really like the chip collector, it sure makes cleanup a lot easier.

Adam: Possibly a ball/detent & spring arrangement on that trans lever.... Happen the spring is cracked, missing or lost its memory....🇬🇧☺️

Please support the shaper base in de middle also, at least. Do or do not... there is no try! You never make compromises, why now with that beautiful machine... I really don’t want to see the machine crack.

Love the shaper. In the machine tool rebuilding phase of my life, I got to watch one of my long beds (around 20') get trued up on a huge shaper. (I scraped that in afterwards). Anyway, I really appreciate all of the videos. Thanks for sharing.

The 3 point foot setup will help with any rocking on an unlevel floor. I think what play you have left in the shaper is, the wood itself compressing. Those posts look like pine, a softwood, I would do some digging around on Craigslist and businesses for some free pallets, on the bigger pallets like they use to ship zero turn mowers, four wheelers, etc... or big equipment, you can find 6x6 or 4x6 pallet runners / blocks and the majority are made out of oak, a lot harder than pine. However, after a while it may fully compress and you might be okay. You will need to see.

Have you ever considered making some adjustable machine feet, similar to keiths on his shaper? Then you could adjust those to compensate for the concrete or machine base.

I threaded the holes in the base of a Bridgeport mill, added 3/4x10 square head set screws and some very heavy washers to each corner. The washers had 5/8" holes so the set screw combination allowed some swivel to match the floor. I think torqured all the same while leveling the machine so they all had the same load.

That toe jack looks like a handy tool to have, I'll put it on the list :) Definitely sounds like the grinder needs new bearings somewhere, she'll make a good restoration project.

Just something to think about. You might consider creating something to keep your toes from going under the shaper. It stands a good chance of slipping off of the wooden spacers. Maybe some adjustable levelers that would use the existing mounting holes. Thanks for everything. I really enjoy your channel.

Rather than setting the machine on the face grain of the wood you could cut blocks that allow you to set it on the end grain. Wood compresses much less in its longitudinal direction. .003” could easily be coming from the wood compressing under the load.

put two strips of steel on the floor,then put dry grout on the steel. You can put a sheet of plastic between the grout and the machine, then lower the machine down spray the grout with a little water and leave for 5 days for it to cure

The heavy gang as they called them would level our machines then create a dam all around them and pour grout under them. When I was installing the machines I worked on we would use shims to distribute the load evenly all around the machine. I was not very comfortable seeing that heavy machine suspended on each end like that. If you add support in the middle carefully adding shims all around so all the points are equally loaded.

Hi Adam, in all respect about your work, that block off wood on the front off the shaper is gonna crack! (at 15:46) Please turn it a quater turn so the grain struckture holds better. (sorry for the bad english/american spelling)

My first step when acquiring an old machine is to remove the belt(s) and then check the motor, unloaded. It has been my experience that even a good motor will need a lube job before running. You can usually feel how good the motor bearing are by hand turning the shaft; as a rule I will tear down the motor for a full cleaning and replace the bearing. Don't be in a hurry to run the machine; you could inflict damage especially when that old iron has been sitting for long time without regular service/maintenance.

Hey Adam, I'm quite familiar with using 3d printing to generate patterns for sand casting and it was hard to tell, but those patterns didn't look like they had enough draft to them. Ideally you want 2-3 degrees, but with small features I usually try for 5-7 degrees. A sand-able primer and some pattern paint is really all you need; those looked like some nice, clean prints.

Another great video. You have got a TON of specialty equipment. I like how you have laid out the machines in the space available.

Outside of grouting it down, you could try some thick rubber that horse suppliers carry, it's about 3/4" thick. We have used it for years, under some heavy-duty woodworking machines, one is a 36" planer that weighs 12,000 lbs, and a sander that weighs 18,000 lbs. It gives you great contact with the floor, but will still conform kind of like grout.

That shaper is one heck of a machine!

Our larger Bar machines with 40' runways had I beams and wide flange beams embedded in the concrete foundations that plates were welded to and rods were threaded into going thru the jacks that sat over and thru the machine base. It was a great day when we took possession of a Zeiss NI1 optical level. The old Paragon level was never used again.

Dislike when people give their opinion to use this tool over that. Internet experts, do what you want when you want because it’s your tools and your time! And we all love the shaper! :) Stay safe big man!

That's what I'd call a well-equipped machine shop. Every toy known to mortal man this century and last. And each has its own plug? Cool beans....

I would be totally excited to sit in your shop & watch you working, and me getting tools or holding them for you. And the weather looks very pleasant as well, man, what a life.

Abom your the man! Pleasure to watch your craft

Do you worry about the shaper sagging in the middle without any support there? I’d think about making some center timbers, and fitting them exactly to the height of the middle and wedging them in there. That way, they would give another point of contact with the floor, and prevent sag in the middle.

I think a "making adjustable feet for the shaper" vidya is in order

My choice for leveling the shaper. If you don't want to make it permanent. Is to make feet for the 6 or 8 mounting holes on the bottom of the machine. Like small saucers. Get the largest diameter ready rod for the holes and put nuts on the bottom and top then you can level all the feet and lock it with the nuts. It would take care of the uneven concrete. I'm just a bit nervous about such a heavy machine only on 3 points. Take care good video.

If you've got a motor that just hums, you might also be missing a phase. Either there is a broken/loose wire between the switch and the motor, something wrong with the switch, or (worst-case scenario) you have an open circuit in one of the stator coils. That's easy enough to find with an ohmmeter.

The shaper leaves a better finish than a mill ever does on jobs like this in my opinion

You're well set up now. Congratulations.

That drill grinder has a nice rhythm to it.

may i suggest buying some leveling pads, six of them. or make some that way you can adjust. just a thought.

Hmm. That shaper sure is a big beast. I would suggest Hilti stuff into the floor,then lags into them. Sikaflex or 3M 520/5200 Marine Sealant Adhesive is pretty darn impressive stuff for bedding engines and the like. Adding wooden wedge blocks into the centre area with the sealant adhesive acting as a vibration reducer,you could fully lag the machine down and maintain the ability to move it easily. Get the thing bedded without fiddling with the concrete floor . Shouldn't take you more than a few hours,and the results well worth it. All the best.

I love the shaper. What a great machine. I've never seen anything peel chips like that beast. I really like that you are re-learning how to use the old monster!

Hey Adam, great update, the shop layout is great and the camera work also. Use them wide shoulders and let all the negative just slide right off. Some replies are not worth the key strokes. I have 37 hard years in for my business. Most of the crap replies are coming from their Moms basement. Keep it your way please, you have taught me so much.

Hey Adam great video as always. Thought I would give you an idea and concerns on how you have your shaper on blocks on the ends. With nothing in the middle have to think that would create a small amount of sag in the middle of the machine. Even though how thick the base is and the over all structure of the machine I would think it would still sag a bit. With that that the tolerance with the ways the arm rides on may cause uneven wear. With you needing to be able to move the machine around I would highly suggest leveling feet or shock mount feet. Mcmaster.com (McMaster Carr) has a great selection of leveling feet and shock mount feet. If you were to get the shock mount ones they have a rubber footing and a thick metal bowl cup like top with a threaded center. Some heavy duty all thread and hardware you could easily level the machine and have up high enough to be able to get under it and move it around and clean under it.

This won't cause a slight bowing in the base ??

Hi Adam. I have set alot of machinery. I would use drop in concrete anchors like you used in the one video. cut pieces of all- thread and screw em into the anchors. Thread leveling nuts and washers onto the all thread. Set your machine down over the all-thread and use the leveling nuts to get er right where you want er about an inch or so up off the floor. Then get some Non-Shrink grout and pack it under the pads. The Non-Shrink Grout is the key.

Nice too see all the toys are ready too go. And yes I agree, I also like seeing the old iron working.

I'm sure mr. pete will enjoy the upcoming casting videos.

Could machine a few small screw jacks to position under the corners to stabilize and support the shaper.

Bolt it to the floor, Simpson makes excellent hardware.

That's a nice rhythmic beat from the belt slapping!