Hopefully this is a better showcase of why I don’t believe Argenti particularly struggles in fewer enemy count scenarios like MOC. Obviously he’s not as good as single target monsters like Dan Heng and Jingliu, or game nuker Acheron, but he’s not that behind them as his B rating would suggest. I saw some other comments suggesting that Argenti’s low rating has contributions from the unflattering statistics he’s gotten. Which to me wouldn’t make sense since nowhere in the criteria does it say statistics are factors in evaluation. I also saw someone say that Argenti has low flexibility, as in he only really has like one viable team. But that’s not listed as a criteria other than their definition of flexibility being able to fight enemies regardless of what kind and the amount. And, do his Hypercarry specifications necessarily make him worse than other characters rated higher who also do best in Hypercarry? IMO I don’t think so.
Statistics as a metric doesn't even make any sense, at that point it just becomes a popularity contest or a "status quo affirmer" rather than actually giving the full picture on how characters perform relative to each other
They do use data to rank units. Right below Argenti's section in the changelog, they mention they're waiting for PF data to adjust things. Sushang was moved from B to C tier due to poor performance in data, same with Asta and others. I'm pretty indifferent about whether he's A or B, but using MoC data to rank units is kinda silly.
@@sct77 oh really? I must have missed that then. I was only looking at the Argenti section in the changelog and the criteria section. I do find it strange that Argenti’s stats are noticeably low though. If he is among the least pulled units, then that should concentrate his data since less people, usually the more dedicated ones, submit their data and make his performance look better. But maybe I’m wrong and his banner was pulled on just as much as other characters and him being between Huohuo and Ruan Mei wasn’t as big of a deterrent to pulling for him.
@@Tylting He does have low ownership rates, but that doesn't mean people overinvest in him. That's a classic case of misattribution, a mistake I believe Prydwen also made (I collect and exploit users data as part of my job). The data they collect is kind of skewed since half of it comes from people who submit it to them. Whichs is fine...as long as they take that into account. The other half is randombly collected through hoyolab if I understand well. The sample isn't the best, though I don't know what would be the solution in this particular case aside from acknowledging the bias and taking it into account. Meaning: they should take the data with a grain of salt. That's the risk with quantitative data you don't control. On a sidenote, saying he lacks team flexibility is wild when he just needs Tingyun (and even then you can speed tune Bronya/Sparkle instead).
@@TutTuT. I was thinking that the people who would even submit data would also be people who would invest more, but that’s also just correlation thinking.
It's very important wtf. Especially when the fight takes multiple cycle, those reduced dmg because of the resistance will compile, and can make 1-2 cycle longer to finish the fight.
Prdywn seems very biased towards female characters. Because come on now… like Dan hang went down a tier because of turbulence like that even mattered with his damage
I LOVE the pettyness that went into making this. I know part of it it to make up for the eidolons since we can't toggle them off, but you kind of went overboard for Argenti's stats and I love it.
Prydwen tierlists is mainly a popularity contest atp. It was unreliable in early game and still unreliable now. If this game had pvp then a tier list would’ve been useful, but it’s pointless since this is a single player game and the characters you pull should depend more on what you have than some tier list says
Having a tier list in single player games is always neat. It gives you some insight about how much investment you need to pour to make some characters work e.g. my E0S0 Acheron has a way worse build compared to his Argenti (only 70/120 crit stats) and her team isn't really better either (none of them has more than 140 speed) and she can clear Sam in 3 cycle and none of them are dying in 50% of the fight since I use Gepard. So tier list does have its use. The problem comes when people start using tier lists to make some units look bad or not worth to use just because they are on the lower tier
@@danielak1666 I see the tier list more as a summoning one, like Argenti being that low means to a newer player or whoever who doesn't have him, they shouldn't get him before someone above, unless they really like him which is fair and nothing wrong, also got archeron and replaced seele in monoquantum, the difference is huge, going for single target to aoe, plus archeron doesn't suffer much either in solo
I think its also worth pointing out that not only is the specific boss mechanically much more favored for dan heng IL (uniquely breaking faster and thus taking more damage based on sp consumption), he's also fighting on element against not only said boss, but also both direwolfs that spawn on each wave. Argenti is fighting off element for all 3 of those enemies, and only one elite in the first wave has physical weakness. So in reality the gap is even smaller between the two.
I mean honestly the showcase was insane rigged in Argenti's favor purely off of his team and how synergistic it is. Like don't get me wrong, it's impressive that Argenti can pull this off But as an Argenti main who skipped both HuoHuo and Sparkle.. having his sig or god tier relics is still 10 times worse than having that team.
@@samsemy6825 I don't see exactly how it's rigged in his favor when DHIL was given the exact same supports. Obviously argenti being ult focused means it's more important for him but it's not like huohuo and sparkle don't also massively buff DHIL. If there's one thing you could surmise it's that argenti performs worse without an optimal team than DHIL but prydwen assumes optimal supports anyway so that doesn't even detract from that.
@@samsemy6825licherally same team as said by others. Not only that but sparkle is Dan heng most synergistic support and even if she also works well with argenti her value is higher with Dan heng
@@ragno-monoover4710 well, exactly the same teams do not always mean giving the same value though. E.g. IL didn't need as much charge as Argenti, so FX crit buff might do better for him compared to huohuo (but replacing huohuo for FX might make Argenti become less consistent, so Argenti can't really take that option). The same can also be said for choosing tingyun instead of Ruan Mei (IL will work fine or even better with Ruan Mei, but Argenti's performance might suffer). So, yeah, having the same support and even the same equipment didn't really guarantee that it's not favoring anyone. Especially when one of them actually has a choice while the other doesn't.
@@danielak1666also even despite that I'd argue the supports are somewhat tilted in il's favour because sparkle is nearly tailor made for il and the one part where she fails doesn't benefit argenti either It's the same supports and il's optimal supports (except debatably ruan mei)
that's why I don't care about tierlists anymore . every limited 5* star is good and will clear end game content perfectly fine with the right team , poeple need to just start enjoying the game instead of focusing on who's the strongest character and what not
You're probably investing in their teams until they reach your desired performance, then not anymore. This leaves better units less invested but performing similarly to worse units.
@@kazekori9593 nah man I agree with him. Every character needs investment in this game. Even jl needs a good amount of investment even though she has 50% cr built in.
i dont pay attention to the lists, i just see people talk about them. i have argenti e0s1 and im so glad i do. ppl dont talk about him enough! i LOVE danIL but frankly argenti feels so much better to me (strength is roughly same, but much more versatile/flexible). he can make use of any support in the game, whereas Dan's SP consumption is pretty annoying even tho i can deal with it. also, dang you nerfed your agenti a ton but i think he cleared it faster than my e0s0 (clara's LC) DanIL + sparkle + luocha team LOL, i feel embarrassed. argenti's overall kit isnt as flashy as say boothill but on my account, he can brute force anything. good for fast farming, MOC, PF, SU... whereas dan does great in MOC but cant do shit for me in PF
I know this isnt 100% indicative of character strength, but in the tides of war event, one of the days lets you choose between using DIL and argenti with these same trial supports of huohuo sparkle and tingyun, and to my surprise, not only did I have a pretty easy time doing it with argenti, I think I even managed SS score. But I was outright struggling to try and win with DIL. These kinds of videos restore my faith in argenti, as a new player with argenti being my favorite design, its really discouraging seeing how argenti is rated as so mid. But these clears show me the opposite
you are the only other person I've ever seen, bar me to know about the on-death effect energy kill auto trick out of curiosity, did you find it out yourself or did you see it from someone else? I kinda just stumbled upon it ironically while watching a streamer auto through content.
It's something I noticed on my own. It happens with enemies who have a special death animation to apply effects, like the penacony dogs, aurumaton fish, and trotters.
@@troy2223 It's at 9:52, where I turned on auto to use Dan Heng's ult using the energy he got from killing the Trotter. With manual play the energy fills up too late and the turn already ended, meaning Dan Heng's talent stacks would have vanished.
Honestly the best thing prydwen can do for themselves is to stop with the tierlist ranking nonsense. Ranking solo characters without disclosing the type of team or setup they're operating on when grading characters just seems like feelscrafting nonsense. Especially because dps performance can vary greatly depending on the team + build. There are way too many people who pull DHIL expecting him to do wonders when they stick him with a Ratio or a Blade dual carry team just because they think S tier on Prydwen = game breaking when it just really means "easier to build for slightly better clear times". DHIL still can't overcome a bad build or bad team comp. If they really wanted to rank something they may as well do team rankings, since that actually is more consistent than trying to judge a character's solo performance in a team-based game.
The problem with prydwen tier list is that they are now based on moc usage list instead of just analysis. Argenti probably ranked bad because not a lot used him.
That's actually the point! I wanted to show that Argenti is still capable when he has no elemental matchup and doesn't fall far behind even when comparing to another character who has elemental favor and is better at single target.
Thank you so much for doing this video! I’ve just discovered your channel and I love your videos, they’re so interesting!! You earned a sub from me :) Keep up the good work!!!
give him the same love and dedication that you gave to acheron , if you got her LC pull for his LC too and give him good build too , maybe that will change your mind
@@ImagineCats9339 he has around 25% higher crit damage and only 200 less attack on my builds, i dont have his light cone but i downgraded her lightcone to my s1 gnsw while argenti has the s5 battle pass cone. They do similar damage with each ultimate but it takes longer to get argentis ultimate. I dont have huo huo amd if i need huo huo to make him similarly as good then that shows the balancing doesnt it?
@@ImagineCats9339top 1% argenti and E1GNSW Acheron owner here. He does feel worse to play especially with her being consistently good in Aoe and Single target with the fact building her ult up is more freeing not requiring high enemy count. Which sucks ass. Argenti should’ve stayed as the no.1 ult nuker for at least 1 more year but god his eidolons kinda sucks compared to her. Atleast he’s Pure fiction king
It's kìnda crazy that my E0 Clara S5 secret vow with the same set up (except I use lynx cuz no HuoHuo) was also able to clear in 3 cycle, which is better than Argenti and on par with DHIL.
Okay, so you really make me want to fix my Argenti. But I don't really have Sparkle or Huohuo, and I'm thinking of cleairng this new MoC cycle with Argenti. So... I don't really have that bad relics but if I give my JY's lightcone to him he can go to 60/160-170 ratio or something. With Fu Xuan I get extra 12%. I might lower down some crit dmg since I'll be running triple broken keel anyways, it would be too overkill. Fu Xuan, Argenti, Hanya and Tingyun.. I wonder if that'll work.
That's a fine team. Not his best obviously, but you don't need the best to clear the game. There's no such thing as overkill Crit DMG unless you do not have enough Crit to actually use it, which is hard to achieve when Argenti gets up to 25% from his talent and Fu Xuan gives 12%.
This is werid ngl. Sam is simply weak to imaginary and res to phys why you test on here. I would gladly fight with DHIL using Himeko on MoC 11 second half where there are full fire weakness but no imaginary and I don't think DHIL stand a chance
I wanted to test here exactly because of that. I wanted to show Argenti still does well even without elemental matchup. My original idea for the video was doing all MOC 11-12 but it would be way too long. But I still have the recordings and the funny thing is that Argenti was always 1 cycle slower than Dan Heng, even when neither has elemental favor (e.g. MOC 11 second half).
This video is really biased towards argenti tho. He has max traces vs dhil does not have them. Also you really nerfed dhil giving him that 4 star lc which is around 10% worse than s5 herta lc (which is free). This showcase was okay but there are a lot of room for improvement. Your sparkle is really slow. Tys attack low as well. If you invest more into your characters the difference will be way bigger. Dhil dmg ceiling is super high which means the better your account gets he will become stronger and stronger unlike argenti who needs hh+ty or he feels awful (except pf bc he is the king there).
I don't have Fall of an Aeon nor will I get it since I don't really plan on pulling any more Destruction, and I don't actually really use my Dan Heng lol. I actually got him on accident at 13-14 pity trying to pull for Asta eidolons back in 1.3. I do acknowledge that Blue Sky's gap between Aeon is widened when you don't use the massive Crit buff to allocate stats elsewhere though. I nerfed my Sparkle and Tingyun's SPD on purpose since they're normally at 165 and 168 respectively. In an effort to be more "F2P relatable", I gutted their SPD just a bit. Tingyun's ATK was also gutted for the same reason. She's normally at ~2.7K with a 4* LC. I did do runs with my usual investment teams and both got 2 cycles on Sam. Maybe if I had Dan Heng's signature it would be 1 cycle. Tingyun is also irreplaceable for Dan Heng imo. She feeds him more ults so he gets his special SP and can hold DDD to let him move a 3rd time with a 3rd Sparkle advance. She's even more important if he's E2 so he can combo over and over. He has a higher damage ceiling sure, but higher damage doesn't outweigh more damage by getting another turn through DDD Tingyun. Argenti doesn't need both Tingyun and Huohuo, Tingyun by herself is just fine. Huohuo is just a massive QoL for anyone and he doesn't benefit from her anymore than other characters do aside from Acheron.
@@Tylting I dont think that its good to nerf stats when stats>sets in hsr. We are 1 year into the game. If you have 161+ spd on your supports (with no sets) that is still achievable. It would be different it we were talking about wind set 161+ spd. Dhil can use a lot of supports. He doesnt need to ult that often with sparkle on his side. Ty doesnt really need cogs if you have sparkle bc you can use her skill more often even with dhil. He only needs sparkle rest can be ty,pela,rm and any sustain. For e2 dhil his best team is rm+sparkle+hh especially with eidolons. Argenti doesnt really have any f2p lc (at least as of rn) unlike dhil who has the 5 star herta one which is completely f2p. Dhil with a 161 spd sparkle and an even faster (174 spd can be hard to achieve) ty is way above argenti. Prydwen tl should not matter at all bc we all know they are biased towards women which is ridiculous! 😂
I'm referencing Prydwen's tier list where he is ranked B on their MOC tier list as of writing this comment. Their latest tier list update was on the 17th, which did not shift Argenti's rating at all.
Dude, Argenti and Lunae have the exact same base def of 363 and Lunae has a LOT more aggro since he's destruction path. Erudition characters actually have the lowest taunt value in the game at 3, which is even lower than Harmony characters; Destruction characters have a taunt value of 5. One of the most common complaints from Lunae mains is how much aggro he draws despite being made of paper. Yanqing can oneshot most characters that aren't Clara or Blade, so this is not an Argenti issue.
Actually, one of my original ideas for this video was also comparing with Jing Yuan and Dr. Ratio, who are rated S. But I chose not to include them for a few reasons: 1) it would make the video way too long 2) my JY is E1, and I wanted to keep it at E0S0 as much as possible since one of the main criticisms of my last video was my “whale investment” 3) the only “F2P accessible” LC I have leveled for Hunt characters is Swordplay, which is awful on Ratio. But since you seem to want to know, my JY with the same setup got 4(?) cycles and Ratio got 5-6(? I can’t remember). Edit: also I should say Ratio was using SW over Sparkle since if he had no debuffer it'd be even slower.
Thankfully Aventurine's banner is coming soon for a really good shielder option if you don't have Gepard. I've also seen Gallagher work really well since he gets a lot of Outgoing Healing Boost from his Break Effect conversion iirc.
