*You can build* a social justice system around the energy of hate. This is easily understood and there's nothing particularly new about it. *What Jesus does* is build a social justice movement (called the kingdom of God) around the energy of love--love for God, neighbor, and even the enemy. God's kingdom is based on self-sacrificing love, the opposite of course is selfishness. Greetings from the NW (Washington, USA). ... John & Alesia
Thanks Doreen and Richard for this thoughtful discussion on Christianity and social justice. Ironically, we add the clarifier "social" to the term "justice" because of pastors like John MacArthur who have made hyper-individualistic Christianity so prevalent. Keep up the great work. Don't let all the negative comments get to you. And bring back the podcast! :-)
Ironically those hyper-individualistic pastors are also right-wing and trump supporters. It shouldn't really surprise us that guys like John MacArthur support Donald. This christianity mixed with political aims is really what corrupts christianity nowadays as it has double standards, one to judge the leftist leaders and another one to judge those from the republican party. Hypocrisy of the highest order and we call it being strategic.
@@Jorgehernandez-pt4hy I don't know if you or Doreen and Richard spent the time listening to the 4 hour sermon given by John MacArthur on Social Justice. Over and over again John said we need to help the poor and needy. John's main point was that playing the victim and blaming other for their sin, will not lead them to Christ. As for supporting Trump, that does not mean John believes everything that Trump does but poses the lesser of 2 evils (Biden), if you will.
From a secular perspective God definitely does not care about the disparity, the rich might be very privileged in this life but it's harder for a rich to enter the kingdom of heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24). Social justice needs to take the back seat in church as it is intrinsically just as materialistic as the capitalistic prosperity gospel. We need to define what a poor is and to assess how much one's really need. A lot of people call themselves poor but they have everything they need or deserve. Giving them more without them having earned it is a bad idea. There is no spiritual gain in making someone richer. If you gain the world but lose your soul, you are on the losing team, it's biblical. If the after life is what matters then the church can't push for a system that taxes its rich and gives everybody the same. A christian that is rich on the other hand needs to understand how the ancient church worked though but those obligations cannot be those of the secular rich.
It's interesting that you've posted this now. This is NAIDOC week in Australia, which is a celebration of indigenous culture. This year's theme is "Always was, always will be" which is a phrase often used in relation to Australia - "Always was, always will be Aboriginal land". The giving back of the land has not yet occurred here, though there have been some steps in that direction, which are good. Australia is stolen land, and I doubt it will ever be "made right" with the indigenous population, but we should at least try, in my opinion.
Just reading the comments and seeing our Bruderhof friends have touched a tender spot in the secular audience. I just wish to witness on behalf of our Bruderhof friends that the Bruderhof live up to their shared and common wealth. The Bruderhof live the life of the New Testament Church described by the Apostles. Some of what the Bruderhof speaks here is hard to hear for the capitalists and secular society. However, the Bruderhof do not own private property, nor do they except salaries or own created things that are not shared. The Bruderhof also share outside their community. The Bruderhof are a blessing to their neighbors and many of the missions through out the world. If you wish to know what the Apostles are taking about when they described the church in their day, the Bruderhof faithfully exemplify that church in the present age. The Bruderhof most certainly understand that their belief system especially economically does not work with out obeying the commands of Christ. Their whole life glorifies HIM and HIS way. The Bruderhof purposely separate themselves from the secular world in the formation of a God fearing, Christ centered, Community in order to obey the Sacred Christ and glorify HIM. Their way of life could not be sustained without Christ. The Bruderhof have no weapons or wealth. They exist through the miracle of Christ. Don't forget that when you want to criticize their beliefs and way of life by explaining it would never work in the secular world, of course it wouldn't. The Bruderhof have made a conscious vow to Christ to separate themselves from sin and to obey the commands of Christ. There is the difference between communism and their Christian community. God bless the Bruderhof and all those who call upon the Sacred Name of Jesus Christ. Amen!
Still, Tara, if Jesus is the Way, theTruth and the Life, why wouldn’t we who believe want to shout it from the rooftops? He is hardly even mentioned in the community..... Someday this world will pass away, and all the communities, etc. with it. Really, knowing this, how should we then live? There is a reason we are told to preach the gospel... that is the task and command Jesus gave us, after all Jesus is the Lord of Lords and King of kings. How will they know if we don’t tell them?
I don't know how familiar you are with the out reach of the Bruderhof? The Bruderhof have an endless publication of books and magazines through The Plough. The Bruderhof have several RU-vid and online blogs that share the preaching of Christ and the gospel. The Bruderhof is an active and vibrant church that not only preaches the Sacred Word but lives it, in the name of Christ. Amen!
@@Bruderhof I am familiar with the Bruderhof and consider them my brothers and sisters. I have probably read every book they have ever written, including The Plough from when they were in Paraguay. The times we are living in now are very different than just a decade ago. It just feels more important than ever to be clear about what the gospel actually is. Jesus wanted that to be preached to the ends of the earth, so we really should do that. I have lived with injustice, as we all have.....but there is a need deep in my heart that all the physical, outward “justices” can never eradicate. Only turning to Jesus took that away.
It's sad that in america Marxism has infiltrated most churches, and we are left with fear-mongering republican propagandists aka pastors that will shame you for voting democrat. It's relieving to know some christians are really walking the walk and showing the rest of us how its done. Republican christians tend to justify selfishness, disparity and greed, hide it with their phony "pro-life" stickers. I always knew there was a way to promote Christ while not being absolute hypocrites.
"Catholic social teachings speak against income inequality and usury." Says the richest religious institution in the world? Worth billions of dollars? I know they have charities, but how is that different than a rich man that gives to charity? Only on a much grander scale. And the Bible is not against usury. Only against charging interest to your fellow Jews. Anyone else, God says it's fine. It's in the Bible. And I can't believe you brought up slavery. Let's read Leviticus 25:44-46 "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly". God seems fine with slavery. Says as long as it's not His chosen people you can own slaves. Kind of like usury. Never once says He doesn't want us to do it. Look, I'm not Catholic bashing, or even Christian bashing at all. Not my intent. But you can't just throw out these statements without any expectation of getting some push back when they're simply not true, or hypocritical. Mother Theresa for example did not fight against poverty in India. She expressly said that poverty and suffering were a gift from God. It brought us closer to Christ. The poor suffer as Christ suffered. And so she was a big fan of poverty. It was a gift. And the Catholic church made her a saint. This is not a good thing, I'm sorry. Suffering should be relieved wherever possible. Not encouraged. And the Church could do much more to address income inequality and suffering that any other religious institution on earth if it only gave away its wealth to the poor it serves. As you say the Gospels teach us. Instead it gets more rich every year?
@@Bruderhof Thank you very much. May God Bless you and your community who remain close to the teachings of Jesus, John the Baptist, Apostles and Essene community at Qumran.
OK guys, so I'm a bit confused. If you as a community 'have' (i.e., own) nothing personally but share everything, how do you define stealing since whatever item is taken doesn't 'belong' to anyone in particular because no one 'owns' anything but items are all held in the common good? If you are wearing a watch that I like and I ask you for it, are you beholden to give it to me because the watch isn't 'yours' to begin with? I realize I am being a bit challenging with this because surely there is a point at which human emotions of 'that's mine' come into play, especially at age 2 and 3...
Mary Lou Stilwell Well you then just have to show forgiveness...the founding principle of the Kingdom of God. I suppose these guys...the Bruderhoff...are doing this sharing of things in the context of community and community is based on relationship. A relationship with God and each other. So if the person takes it from you and will not give it you back when you need it then the real issue is no longer about ownership of a watch but about a break down in community and relationship. This would have to be walked through in love and forgiveness. If that person values something like a watch over the desire to live in the kingdom of God then i guess Holy Spirit needs to reveal a greater truth to them...maybe through the person who gave the watch in the first place or maybe through the loving and forgiving nature of the community as a whole...this is coming from a person who lives only in the community of my family...so maybe not the best person to show how this situation may be resolved.
Good question. Obviously there are things that people use in daily life (watch, phone, clothing, etc.) which aren't "common to all". But our individual attitude is that we own nothing even the things we use from day to day. - Rich
social justice is not from the bible at all. Its a concept that you find outside and than patch verses out of context and justify putting an exterior worldview on top of the bible... Anybody who believes this should ask if hes living under the Lordship of Christ.
I guess according to Christianity, social justice works but as a practicing Orthodox Jew who can actually read the Torah in its original form, we do not believe in the modern day social justice movement. There are inherent differences in different groups. Every one of the 12 tribes are treated differently, are entitled to different privileges and property. God does not believe in socialism. Because when you force people to give you don’t give them the opportunity to become giving people. Rather these are suggestions in order to teach the people how to share and become caring and kind people. In the community I belong to , we all work within the capitalist system. However we have the most beautiful community. We care for all people and have organizations for everything. No one is forced to contribute. We all voluntarily contribute to the causes they are most meaningful to us. No one is hungry, homeless, or lacking clothes. There are foundations to help with special needs kids, orphans, support for divorce, and the funds for weddings. Literally everything and everyone is thought of and yet we have our individual freedom. That’s the way God intended. To teach us to be good people and not force it.
Though I cannot say I'm an Orthodox Jew, I do identify as a Christian and I can say with the fullness of thought into the Holy Words of the Lord God that everything you've stated here Liza I agree with you in a lot of ways. I truly believe God's intention as outlined by your observance and full knowledge of the Torah is echoed in the New. ( Though we have our differences in this, I hope only to edify you in the truth of what you wrote. ) For example The parable of the Good Samaritan, The Parable of the Three Talents, The Parable of the Wicked Servant, ( New Testament Gospels ) and so on... I do believe the Lord points out the ideal of a willingness of giving up worldly possessions for treasures stored in heaven, ( Die to the flesh and walk reborn in Spirit ) but again He also uses parables in occasions where people are in different financial positions to make clear the importance of choices that would echo righteousness in the Kingdom of God. ( This is also echoed in the acknowledgment of the women who ministered and financially provided for the Lord during his proclaiming of the Good News of Salvation His own Jewish people and gentiles alike, by their own individual means) We're living in a world saturated in sin, we recognize when Jesus( Yeshua ) returns this will be done away with, but until that time comes a true reflection of a perceived holy life will only ever be a mere shadow of what is to come. ( Which also means it will be filled with flaws and trials abounding, regardless of how you live. ) That being said, I won't say that people of the Bruderhof are forced, as it's stated very clearly the vows they take and membership /is/ a choice; choosing to live in humbleness, meekness, selling all possessions with a reverent fear of God... they do what they can to live in His will as best they can... It's simply another way to serve and glorify Our Lord...
I'd also like to add, I think the only thing that I find really concerning in the Bruderhof is how often they bring up the Catholic Church....considering the heresies abounding in it...( They aren't hidden... They are blatant, unapologetic and in recent years seem to try to contradict, twist and even deny the Word of God ... )
What a beautiful community. I have a questions about the Old Testament quote suggesting that we return land after 49 years. Wouldn't modern day/mainstream christians say that the Old Testament laws or rules no longer apply becasue the New Testament supercedes the Old Testament? I rarely read the Bible (if ever) but totally agree with the principals of sharing & community. When I point out social justice issues to my christian friends (preference option for the poor, simplicity, sharing etc...) they come up with New Testament quotes to dispel thoe points. Great video
Old Testament laws do not apply anymore in the form of a law. But the spirit of the law lives today with Jesus' grace. The meaning BEHIND the words of the law still apply. We don't have to return land after 49 years, but we should understand why this law existed and how this means we should reach for social use of land.
It is troubling that when there are so many heavy laden, sin sick souls in our present time, that you wouldn’t point more to Jesus. The gospel is not “leaving private property and sharing all things in common”. It has always been that we need a Savior because our sins have separated us from God. All through the old testament God promised a Messiah. Jesus is that promised Messiah. That is the good news and our only salvation. Everything else is good works which will never save us.
The gospel Jesus preached was and still is the good news of the existence of His Kingdom . The good news is that there is a different way we can live in the midst of Empire. Jesus is the King of that Kingdom. As christians we should be living in that kingdom and welcoming others to do so. The teachings of Jesus especially the sermon on the mount provides the principles by which that Kingdom works. The good news is we no longer have to live in oppression under pharaohs rule. We no longer have to live in scarcity but in abundance. No longer fearing each other but loving and forgiving each other. A big part of this is sharing all things...this could be materialistic things but also love, forgiveness, kindness etc...even with our enemies! Its a kingdom not backed up by military might but by the forgiving love of God. This is the good news!
@@272attwell The bad news is we can’t consistently live like this. Unfortunately the strength of sin in our own hearts keeps us from that. Who will deliver us from doing wrong, when what we really want is to do right? Praise God through Jesus Christ our Lord! We forget that we can’t take Jesus’ wonderful teachings and simply apply them to our daily lives. We actually need Him and the power of the Holy Spirit......walking in the Spirit and not the flesh....it is a daily battle.
I love the Brudehof but like many, reject current notions of social justice. The difference is force. The Bruderhof lifestyle is great, and voluntary. Social justice, in common usage, means using force to reallocate resources.
Correct. Modern 'social justice' calls for mandatory egalitarianism that discounts the reality of some people working harder, creating more value, making more use of their talents etc.
I have a question. I think I have asked it on other Bruderhof members' sites, but haven't yet got an answer. I'm sure I'm not the only person that has questions! What does a new member do with their "things?" For example, I have things handed down to me from my parents that are very meaningful to me, so would I have to give them up to live in community there?
Part of becoming a member is divesting yourself of all your property and wealth. But you could certainly have a conversation about things that are meaningful to you as you mention. Thanks for asking. Rich
Oh boy. Tares within the Brudehof too. I not a big fan of MacArthur for other reasons, but his statement is true, justice needs no adjective. Justice is justice and that takes nothing away from God's expectations. I smelled a rat when I saw the Brudehof chiming in on RU-vid. The entirety of Christianity is infected with tares. I think the concept of communal living IS the ideal model of true Christianity, but reality rarely lives up to the ideal. That said, I see that the Bruderhof is just as compromised with the communist idea that justice can be imposed upon the world. Never will happen until Jesus rules with a rod of iron. Until then, the Christian must live justly himself, but outwardly live a life of mercy toward others. The world cannot and will not be saved. In fact, it refuses to be saved, if you read through Revelation. For although in the midst of God pouring out his judgement on the world, "they still did not repent".
Thinking that our reality can't live to the ideal Christian life that Jesus Himself told us to live is a sign of lack of faith on the power of our Lord. Our ways of "living amongst the logic of Rome", turned christianity into the strange point of a dominant culture of intolerance and actual lack of mercy. We tend to think we are entitled to something besides eternity and that our possessions are "ours" which is totally absurd. Every possession will rot and be robbed. Everything we own came from sin and thus everything we own is sin by itself. The world cannot be saved, but we've been called to be the light of the world and salt of the Earth. Choosing to just live your life without being light (which, of course, is not just a glimmer) is rejecting the call. The kingdom of God is ALREADY within us. We should accept it, not reject it.
João Moreno Two scripture come to mind immediately: "The thing that I ought to do, is the thing I do not do. And the thing that I ought not to do, that I do. Oh wretched man that I am, who will free me from this body of death?" Do you have more faith than Paul? "I know how to abound and I know how to be abased". Abundance and abasement, prosperity and poverty. Possessions and empty handed. Where exactly are possessions forbidden? In fact, they are represented in The Ten Commandments, "Do not covet thy neighbor's....
@@tomsinclair1264 I don't have enough faith to even be compared. But Paul, saying this, do not condone the things he does not want to do. While we do sin because of our carnal bodies, we shouldn't think that sin is the normal way of living and that there's no way to look up to Christ, wanting to be like Him. Paul actually was one of the benefectors of the Acts society which thrived to be what this video depicts. He wasn't against it, but actually tried to make it work.
My wife pointed out how the woman's eyes and body are obviously reading from a script. We had a Bruderhof in the town where I grew up, and these two do not fit the profile. Instead, they look like two hipsters from Portland, dressed up in Bruderhof clothing. And if this is the "new" Bruderhof, shame on them. But as stated in an earlier comment, theses two are tares among wheat. The Bruderhof does not need to be on RU-vid.
That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. That doesn't change the fact that there are a couple of Bruderhof YT channels, and they get quite a lot of views. People are curious about the community, and although I am not a follower of any religion, I have no objection to them talking about how they live, or what they believe. It is easier to call out hypocrisy in those who engage in discussion, as opposed to those who operate in darkness. At least the Bruderhof tend to live what they preach, unlike so many other sects.
