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Social Media and Suicide: Response to Jonathan Haidt 

Carefree Wandering
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Why social media kill kids? How?
#JonathanHaidt #socialmedia #identity
Video mentioned:
Jonathan Haidt: The Case Against Social Media | Lex Fridman Podcast #291:
• Jonathan Haidt: The Ca...
The Impossibility of Being Authentic & 7 Rules for life in Profilicity:
• The Impossibility of B...
Wokeism:
• Wokeism
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Outro Music:
Carsick Cars - You Can Listen You Can Talk:
• Carsick Cars - You Can...
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Hans-Georg Moeller is a professor at the Philosophy and Religious Studies Department at the University of Macau, and, with Paul D'Ambrosio, author of the recently published You and Your Profile: Identity After Authenticity".
(If you buy professor's book from the Columbia University Press website and use the promo code CUP20 , you should get a 20% discount.)

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19 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 275   
@Adam-Friended
@Adam-Friended 2 года назад
Great analysis. Thank you for validating my profile.
@Drudenfusz
@Drudenfusz 2 года назад
Be careful, the second order observation is watching! ;)
@jamesrowsell9346
@jamesrowsell9346 2 года назад
given your general content im pretty surprised you are here ha ha
@Drudenfusz
@Drudenfusz 2 года назад
@@jamesrowsell9346 He had been a huge Jonathan Haidt fanboy in the past, and he occasionally talks about Jordan Peterson too, who this channel also featured in the past. Which is why I had send him some time ago a video from this channel, and I am glad it lead to some exchange of ideas. The only question I ponder now since yesterday is what does that say about my own identity construction that I helped something to happen that I wanted to see, but have not capitalised of it on my own social media or otherwise in redefining (or reinforcing) who I am.
@deenil
@deenil 2 года назад
Out of curiosity, how would you describe yourself politically, Adam?
@jamesrowsell9346
@jamesrowsell9346 2 года назад
@@deenil i'd describe him as right wing.
@Jabranalibabry
@Jabranalibabry 2 года назад
Therapist here from Asia, self harm and most probably suicide in south Asian gen-z is showing a high correlation with social media use. However, in most asian societies suicide is taboo and most families hide these instances which may explain the lack of data/reporting
@DjKryx
@DjKryx 2 года назад
Correlation is not the same as causation, especially in such a short timespan in which all of the technology and social implications they have exploded at the same time, not only social media. Suicides might be growing because of economical and, by extent, existential aspect of existing that media brought up to people, the idea that we will work until we die, that we are only as worth as the money we make etc. It is sad that the suicide is a taboo, but believe me when i say that it is taboo everywhere, especially more traditional or religious countries.
@officialdazer
@officialdazer 2 года назад
Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world - that is not hidden. Suicide is taboo everywhere. Name me one culture were suicide is not taboo.
@topcatmatt
@topcatmatt 2 года назад
Just like how the murder rates in like Japan 🇯🇵 for instance are prolly way off tbh
@Jabranalibabry
@Jabranalibabry 2 года назад
@@DjKryx yes, tony, that's why I wrote high correlation instead of referring to causation; however, from the front lines of this phenomenon I'd strongly bet on there being a causal link. Asia isn't a monolith so there's varying degrees of the effects but one main difference between the west/global north and much of Asia is that a lot of the population heavily using social media has vastly different levels of education and understanding of targeting algorithms; hence, a drastic impact. The taboo of suicide exists everywhere, yes but in some Asian and African countries it is illegal. Ironically the stat can pursue legal actions against you or your guardians if you're suffering from suicidal ideation. That along with the cultural implications make the picture much more muddled.
@Berliozboy
@Berliozboy 2 года назад
Related to the "Prolificity vs Authenticity" idea: One of the scariest aspects of social media to me is the ability for people, teenagers especially, to make specific statements and expressions of identity. It gives them the ability to say "I am this. This is who I am," at a time when they are going through constant change. Before, identity crafting was altered and mutated through real life social interaction and individual perceptions. Now, their own statements of identity create almost instantaneous cognitive dissonance because not only is it written down and can practically never be erased, but it has also been validated, or at least observed, by a general peer. I believe this makes individuals feel beholden to their profile, and thus can't escape the feeling of living a "lie" and intense confusion because they simply can't be their profile...unless we move more and more of our lives into a digital space.
@GnaeusScipio
@GnaeusScipio 2 года назад
Well said. It reminds me of the analogue to the authenticity double-bind. When you can't establish a healthy distance between your present self and your "authentic self", you can become a prisoner of your own biography. The evolution of that is what you bring up: a prisoner of your profile _or_ a prisoner of the general peer.
@armchairecon
@armchairecon 2 года назад
Excellent comment. Quite a few of the ideas surrounding web3 entailed subtle the attempts to integrate the aforementioned past profiles without having to actually live out that profile, (metaverse). I think its interesting because this idea seems from its inception just a way for social media companies to solve one of the issues of the age of profilicity, the cognitive dissonance you mentioned, whilst also capitalizing on its solution. I think time will tell if we adopt healthier attempts with coping during this age as the professor said, but I also agree that it seemed ushered in or at least sped up by particular forms of social media.
@user-rl7hm7ix5n
@user-rl7hm7ix5n 2 года назад
Yes. Also, I feel like a higher valuation of your online presence comes w/ a higher anxiety about deviating from what you've stated you are. I'm 30, grew up in the internets and social media, but not at the full takeover stage that it is now. So I guess for us it was very important, we used it a lot, but "identity" was still more expressed offline? So it didn't matter much if you contradicted yourself online or something. If anything it was the other way around, it would be the place where it was alright to break the "offline identity" w/ no issues. For younger folks it seems like deviating a bit from your online identity is a huge deal/source of anxiety (and perhaps even online/offline identity is way more blurred).
@theskeletongang
@theskeletongang 2 года назад
Internet communities also place massive punishments on people for revising their beliefs, so they're encouraged to perpetually double down instead of letting the natural progression of their identity play out. They aren't allowed to just be going through a phase, they are pressured to maintain their individual status quo.
@daithiocinnsealach3173
@daithiocinnsealach3173 2 года назад
Or else they mature to the point where they see these self identifications for what they are. Of course that means going through a sometimes painful state of confusion and death of identity. What is left is the animal and that can be very freeing.
@niamhl6964
@niamhl6964 2 года назад
So, as a 22 year old woman who grew up in the years that social media booming really began, and who was diagnosed with depression and anxiety (and had several suicide attempts) at the age of 14 in 2014, I feel like I have insight into this. For me, there was an absolute feeling of overwhelm when it came to my use of social media and the internet as a whole when I was a teenager. I had a sense of constant dread about how I was being perceived, which is somewhat normal for teenagers, however it was most certainly amplified by social media. Knowing that all of the photos of my 'cringey' past self were only a click away, knowing that they could show up anywhere at any time, being constantly aware of horrific news and bombarded by messages from friends and acquaintances and even strangers was just way too much for my young brain. I wasn't even a popular person in my school or anything, but I was always reachable and therefore always had to have my 'profile' up and ready to use. I was lucky never to be bullied or cyberbullied, and had no terrible experiences with social media, but even my normal use of social media was so intense and impacted my mental state so much, without me even realising it. And the saddest thing was, I though social media was helping me! I thought it was allowing me to express me 'true self'.
@guilhermeviegas6139
@guilhermeviegas6139 2 года назад
really similliar experience here, with a 22 years old guy in brazil
@niamhl6964
@niamhl6964 2 года назад
@@transcendentphilosophy you're right! My mistake
@nogalesfe
@nogalesfe 2 года назад
Please, do as I do, use all your present and future resources to invest in yourself and your mental health, don't bear children into this sick world so that they go through the same or worse than us.
@FartMeltonProductions
@FartMeltonProductions 2 года назад
Same, as another 22 year old man here social media also has effects on people who don't use it or don't use it correctly within their own circles by ostracizing them. Social medias a societal tumor
@aFoxyFox.
@aFoxyFox. 2 года назад
So have you decided to remove and conceal and delete as much as possible and becoming unknown and unavailable and not participating in social media?
@denzali
@denzali 2 года назад
Authenticity vs profilicity, nailed it. Socials are tough on kids because it’s performative and warrants particular type of projection. And then there is day to day socioeconomic life which is one giant f lie tbh. How the hell are kids supposed to juggle all of this?!!
@Amal-kz6yi
@Amal-kz6yi 2 года назад
I think your analysis is spot on. I am in my early 20's and from my experience I think what you are saying is correct. I have had this hurtful dilemma between being authentic and "building my profile" but this dilemma wasn't because of an external source, it was from me. I was full on an authentic person or as I believed I was, and I found this practice of using social media was in essence a contradiction with my authenticity. I tried my best but I couldn't manage to build a profile or an identity in this mode and that's mainly because of my authentic upbringing and mentality. My profile is a total failure right now. But your ideas have really changed my mind and really awakened me from this authentic dogma. Right now i think that this "authentic fear' has lessened in me and I am more open to trying to build a profile. Thanks Professor really for this insightful ideas about how one should behave, expect and see in others.
@thomaharadja5307
@thomaharadja5307 2 года назад
Why do you feel the urge to build a profile if you consider yourself an authentic type of person ? The point of « identity technologies » isn’t to master them all. You shouldn’t use one if it makes you uncomfortable. And being good at building a profile isn’t really contingent on believing the validity of the act. Many people are fully on board with profilicity but have terrible profiles. And a cynical but crafty enough person could surely build profiles and even teach how to build them, while considering the act meaningless.
@Amal-kz6yi
@Amal-kz6yi 2 года назад
@@thomaharadja5307 The idea is that its somewhat needed to build a profile especially for someone in my age, all people around you have profiles, they make connections using these profiles and they raise their identify value using these profiles. so its quite understandable why anyone would feel the "urge" to build a profile. The urge is their because it is what it is. The problem was in the tension between the two methods, basically my authenticity wasn't good in the profile market. I believe that the "general peer' didn't accept me and I couldn't afford to lose my authenticity but in the same time I needed to gain my profilicty. I ended up just leaving the online profile game and just go along with my authencity. But now I know that my authenticity is maybe not that sacred.
@neoepicurean3772
@neoepicurean3772 Год назад
@@Amal-kz6yi I'm in a bit of a pickle here too. I'm in my 40s now, and in my life I did manage to become what would be considered 'authentic' and 'original'. I've had a pretty amazing life, when I tell people about it they comment on what an interesting and unusual life it is, without fail. I'm proud of my life, which I consciously built as something to be proud of. Around the early 2010s I became aware that this social media stuff was really starting to impact actual social life, and I naturally thought I should develop a profile. However, I found that my 'highly authentic' life did not translate well to social media at all. First I reacted by ironically using it, for example, back in the early days of Facebook I posted as if I was touring Argentina on horseback, each day I would Google a town that I could reach and write about how I was enjoying the local sites and cuisine etc. But eventually I all but abandoned it, and became merely a social media spectator, which still consumes a lot of time/energy. But now I'm newly single, most of the achievements that gave me social standing peaked several years ago. I now find myself needing a profile just to be part of modern society, but I still cannot bring myself to do what I consider to be inauthentic... as a consequence I feel like I'm becoming isolated. I too would like for my authenticity to lose its sacred status, but to swap it for a phony profile just feels intuitively wrong. It's certainly not easy being young in all this, but it's no easier being middle aged, perhaps even harder?
@dannyglands4565
@dannyglands4565 3 месяца назад
​@@neoepicurean3772I struggle with this feeling as well, especially on dating profiles. I don't want to feel like I'm selling the best version of myself to everyone
@retardedphilosopher6097
@retardedphilosopher6097 2 года назад
The absolute impossibility of authenticity.
@howtomakeamonster
@howtomakeamonster 2 года назад
or subjectivity, for that matter
@madebyPure
@madebyPure 2 года назад
@@howtomakeamonster how is subjectivity impossible? You are having a subjective experience right now, are you not?
@maxmilian1243
@maxmilian1243 2 года назад
Well, authenticity is possible if it is understood as a unique cross section of already existing psychological features and traits.
@Nickikiddi
@Nickikiddi 2 года назад
Wow - I certainly remember struggling with the difficulties of profile building and authenticity growing up. Not sure how many people my age experienced this too, or whether it resulted in any suicidal feelings, but I have never heard anyone put into words how I felt!
@_jamesdphillips
@_jamesdphillips 2 года назад
Would love to see you on Lex’s podcast
@Rudenbehr
@Rudenbehr 2 года назад
This man is WAY overdue for a Lex podcast cameo
@ottz2506
@ottz2506 2 года назад
Would love to see him on Rogan.
@maximvandaele4825
@maximvandaele4825 2 года назад
This is one of your best videos of recent times, prof. Moeller. I suppose the main takeaway here is that we must learn how to handle the potential pitfalls of both social media and profilicity. You have me very curious as to what you believe is the role Daoism could play here, and I look forward to reading your book where you explain this.
@stuarthicks2696
@stuarthicks2696 2 года назад
Good observations and analysis here. So glad my young nephews have such a small social media presence. I’ve always been a one man wolfpack myself. Less exposure/influence is fine. Had forgotten all about Sorrows of Young Werther and The Catcher in the Rye. Read both back to back many years ago. Heather’s anyone? Bueller?
@jpruhu7662
@jpruhu7662 Год назад
This dialogue clicked for me. I have been striving to understand and grow into helpful ways to introduce and discover profilicity for my young children. It seems that the real work to be done is marrying our mental conceptions of "physical" and "digital" spaces. Perhaps they both serve as dynamic conceptions of the self?
@peterschaffter826
@peterschaffter826 2 года назад
There's a similarity between Young Werther and Holden Caulfield. Same authenticity/sincerity conflict, same imitation of a fictional character by teenagers trying to be authentic. The Werther Effect could as easily be called the Catcher in the Rye Effect.
@jackward6726
@jackward6726 2 года назад
What was the difference between a sincerity culture and an authenticity culture? He kind of skimmed over that in the video
@santoshraj1203
@santoshraj1203 2 года назад
Great points! Thank you Professor.
@Nick_fb
@Nick_fb Год назад
I could write a whole song of praise about this video, but it is enough to say it is effectively curative. German philosophy/analysis like this is sorely needed. Anybody, teenage girl or not, that wants to submit content to the internet, falls into the "think all day about it" trap.
@vincentlaw1415
@vincentlaw1415 11 месяцев назад
it's so scary when you grew up in the middle ground (I'm 26) and still remember vividly, the day everything went down that particular hill. I can even remember the place in my hometown, when I first realized that all teens around me were on their phones, talking about these new apps; Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter etc. while I hardly got into Facebook at that time. I felt like the world had gone crazy, because who would need 5 different apps to do the same thing on it, which was at that time (so I thought) to socialize and stay in touch with your actual friends. Turns out my intuition was exactly right.
@Doutsoldome
@Doutsoldome Год назад
Very interesting. It would be wonderful to have you and Heidt in a conversation about this.
@TheDanfel10
@TheDanfel10 2 года назад
Your comment about the chinese youth made me wonder if profilixity isn't, in some way, a resurge of sincerity in a more digital and market-oriented manner. It seems to me that the importance of second-order observation was already implicit in the roles valued on sincerity
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn 2 года назад
There are differences. Sincerity is given to you by a pre-existing society i.e. roles, that you're expected to internalize. Profiles are chosen, and then shaped by the communities you join. Relatedly, sincerity is far more stable - traditional role characteristics can be maintained for a lifetime with little expectation of you changing - whereas profiles are tweaked all the time, and sometimes even remade altogether. Profiles are essentially personal brands, whereas roles are hardly branding - they're basically just social norms.
@kerycktotebag8164
@kerycktotebag8164 Год назад
i would say Roles are more collective and more detached from agency, while Profiles are more interpersonal and thus involve the social aspect of agency (boundaries) & contingencies in different situations, rather than collective roles that over‐arc **all** situations including when you're alone. Roles could be considered less flexible i guess?
@k.butler8740
@k.butler8740 11 месяцев назад
I was raised reformed Baptist/non denominational American Christian. I'm still not sure how to craft my profile in any other context:/ thanks for the insights! I've seen some of your other content on profile theory but this is the first time I saw any there there or could relate. Insightful!
@rockugotcha
@rockugotcha 2 года назад
what a great analysis.
@Michelle_Wellbeck
@Michelle_Wellbeck 2 года назад
It's highly concerning how he takes rising rates of mental illness and suicide amongst youth as a given in the transition from an authentic to a prolific society. The harmful design of profile-building social media is the most significant contributor to the modern rise in depression. I see the design of profile-building media (instagram, youtube, tinder) as not conducive to a healthy attitude towards profilicity amongst the youth in particular and I am disappointed that he didn't address this. Specifically, the open network nature of social media leads to youth seeing their general peer as not being their local school and community, but is instead shaped according to algorithms which present the user with profiles whom they are made to perceive as their "general peers". Additionally, the nature of the social media algorithms means that attention and exposure is distributed in such a way that only a minority can gain a level of popularity or validation. This creates an incentive for harmful attention seeking behaviours including dishonesty, polemicism, and sexualization.
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn 2 года назад
They aren't all the same tho. Among your three examples, RU-vid is very different. It's not really all that profilic for the vast majority of its users, only major content creators have to worry about their profiles. Regular users like us are basically just nobodies and the platform pretty much doesn't suggest otherwise, hence there's very little profile curation. By contrast Instagram is incredibly profilic.
@Michelle_Wellbeck
@Michelle_Wellbeck 2 года назад
@@ArawnOfAnnwn Yeah you're right. I was looking for TikTok in my head but somehow wrote youtube instead. The difference between youtube and tiktok in terms of how the behaviour of users is shaped by a social media I think shows how much design of these media can greatly effect the user's experience in building profilicity.
@peterlux4317
@peterlux4317 2 года назад
Beware of Haidt's statistics. If it was social media then you would expect a similar increase in the UK. There was a slight increase but it is not so clear. People reporting 'depression' is also influenced by more people reporting it rather than an increase in the amount of depression.
@WXRBL666
@WXRBL666 2 года назад
Yes, depression become part of the profile
@peterhardie4151
@peterhardie4151 2 года назад
British people are allergic to some of the worst excesses of social media. I think its a cultural thing, a 'pisstaking' culture.
@ToxicallyMasculinelol
@ToxicallyMasculinelol 3 месяца назад
Very thorough. Makes perfect sense.
@sash3497
@sash3497 2 года назад
Addiction can be one of the hardest health issues to treat. Let’s hope the form relating to profile building is more amenable - let’s hope it is related to the transition - the conflict identified - in that it may subside in time and with critical reflection (awareness/insight)
@gh0s1wav
@gh0s1wav 2 года назад
Yeah but when people talk about addiction being one of the hardest health issues to treat they are usually talking about physical addiction. Like an alcoholic who will literally go into a fit if they don't drink some alcohol or a heroin addict who goes through severe withdrawal symptoms unless they have the drug. These people literally need a substitute for their addiction to function in day to day life. Then you have something like weed which is more psychologically addictive. You can quit it, you might have some cravings but after a month you'll be fine as long as you don't happen into an environment that'll influence you to use or your motivation is strong enough. Social media is basically the same thing and they've found that social media isn't really addicting in itself it's more about the way in which people use social media. Identity is really important and in a lot ways people need it to go about day to day life. It's almost like proposing a money addiction, a cellphone addiction, a car addiction. Like we use these things a lot because we need to and in our modern world they are basically impossible to avoid.
@arpitthakur45
@arpitthakur45 2 года назад
well i feel if you think its hard it is going to be hard...if you identify with that addiction then it might be harder...i feel people get extremely attached to the image that they are addicted and they need a solution for it and are constantly trying to fight it because they are always reacting to this assumption of a problem and there is something that needs to be fixed and i feel we make desperate attempts to fix something because we think that our current state is extremely bad....i sense people generally behave more impatiently as well...when you dont try to control something really badly there is a sense of relaxation you experience...issues almost die down automatically after a while just like anxiety goes away if i patiently wait for it go away and not have a reaction to it and consider it to be real...atleast that's what i felt about my porn addiction...i haven't watched any in over a year and i suddenly stopped watching it because i almost pretended with myself that i am fine and there is nothing wrong with me and i also started telling myself a different story...and maybe being more aware and meditating...idk...
@carboncube9444
@carboncube9444 2 года назад
Great Video! The Idea of prolificity is very interesting
@IamaPrice
@IamaPrice Год назад
Failure to develop an authentic individual self....best description I've ever heard.
@LuceroLucifer
@LuceroLucifer 2 года назад
i really think your concept of profilicity and the notion of learning about oneself through second-order observation is similar to cristopher nash's notion of "narcissance" which he talks about in his book "the unraveling of the post modern mind." i've been independently researching the contemporary zeitgeist for the past four years and your book, "you and your profile," alongside Nash's book, "the unraveling of the post modern mind," and "the art of shrinking heads" by dany-robert dufour have been absolutely helpful in trying to understand current society. i greatly appreciate your insight in this strange times.
@tk8364
@tk8364 2 года назад
Great to see you're getting outside more.
@arono9304
@arono9304 2 года назад
Thank you Georg! You might benefit from looking into (and perhaps talking to) philosopher Bernardo Kastrup. He is a metaphysical idealist, and in his analysis he is giving very convincing arguments for an ontological ground that helps individuals realise the extent to which their persona isn't any less real, and at the same time one shouldn't be attached to it either. This might be useful context as we shouldn't just be informed in thinking about our (inter)subjectivity, but also regarding our Weltanschauung. He has had conversations with Robert Wright, Rupert Spira, John Vervaeke, Jonathan Pageau, Michael Shermer, Donald Hoffman, among several others, if that helps to get an idea of what kind of overlap of interest there might be.
@quintinpace1541
@quintinpace1541 Год назад
Hello. Old comment, but are there any papers or books of his specifically that you might recommend?
@WTFSt0n3d
@WTFSt0n3d 2 года назад
nice. waited for this since you teased it on sitch and adams show.
@tomspaghetti
@tomspaghetti 2 года назад
Loved this!
@ewanjenkins
@ewanjenkins 2 года назад
Hello professor, thanks again for this insightful analysis. I am writing a graduate thesis on the connections between modern identity paradigms and their relation to climate change which I would love to hear your thoughts on. Your work has been especially important to the formulation of my paper, though I apologise for the length of my inquiry. I am curious if you were willing to talk about the prospects of a profilic identity scheme in relation to issues of climate change and ecological justice. You discussed briefly in your book how people's investment in their profiles often transcends their investment in causes (that their investment in causes, like climate change, is profilic) - this led to the phenomenon of people celebrating that climate change is actually happening, because it validated the profiles they had publicly constructed around this cause. Figures like Greta Thunberg and Leonardo DiCaprio have enormous public profiles oriented almost exclusively toward issues of climate/ecological justice, where such profiles take on a very moral communicative structure to attempt large-scale shifts in public and institutional orientation toward these causes. As you've articulated well, constructing moral profiles are very attractive; I believe a case could be made that Thunberg's profile - being both a child and a moral activist for climate justice - has been particularly potent in galvanising a sweeping profile-shift for particularly young people to constructing profiles around the same causes - a kind of 'copycat effect' or mimesis of Thunberg's example. Greta has also gone to some lengths to authenticate the 'authenticity' of her profile through, for example, her documented boat-trip to the US to deliver a speech to the representatives of nations. I observe that whilst such strong profiles dedicated to moral causes attract a lot of public attention, and effect a not-insignificant shift in individual orientations toward important causes, is also a precarious situation: if it was revealed that Greta did in fact drive, eat meat, or perform actions considered antithetical to issues of climate justice, her profile loses integrity and becomes less attractive to associate with or imitate. Second-order observation seems to demand a kind of 'moral saint' if it is explicitly constructed around a cause. For many on the political Right (or perhaps merely those who have an ironic orientation and skeptical of the authenticity of profiles) it seemed for a time that their desire was to see her so-called 'authentic' profile crumble in this way, thus deflating the youth climate-justice movement that was largely associated with her profile (Fridays for Future). To me this precarity is inherent in communities that are idolatrous, and I would like to hear you speak about idolatry and second-order observation. Associated with this is the phenomenon of second-order observation and its moral gaze when it comes to building identities around such climate-related causes like sustainability, veganism, tree-planting, conservation and restoration work. I wonder what your insights are for the future in this regard, whether we can expect a kind of Neo-Confucian moral policing of profiles that are not committed to ecological sustainability as the effects of climate change continue to escalate and be projected into the public sphere through media spectacles. I see this as being little talked about compared to the rather reactionary calls for renewing our relationship with 'Nature,' whether performed abstractly or in shifts in identity-orientation, or by granting 'Nature' a judicial identity in the form of allotting non-humans and demarcated plots of land rights. The hippie movement, which many writers in the 60's-70's looked on favorably as not necessarily a revolutionary political force, but as breaking into a new anti-capitalist identity paradigm, was ascribed as being associated with or 'closer to' 'Nature' (despite this having little substantial truth). Since then, identities that either construct profiles or accept ascriptions of being 'Nature-oriented' have remained fringe in the West though growing in maturity and sophistication; part of my observation is that perhaps the paradigm is shifting that this becomes more mainstream, or even morally expected, as this orientation becomes more demanded by the general peer. The broad shift in corporate and commercial identities toward 'sustainable' products also signify the market is shifting to service these new identities, though lifestyles remain substantially unchanged or re-oriented. Do you believe it shall be the work of 'identity politics' that will ultimately provoke the kind of dramatic re-orientations toward ecological sustainability necessary to avert the worst extremes of climate change, i.e, a kind of moral rejection of fossil capital that animates the general peer? I would be most appreciate of your (or anyone's) thoughts on these ideas. I apologise again they are a bit 'meandering'.
@VashdaCrash
@VashdaCrash 2 года назад
Your comment is great dude, hahaha I mean, if it's meandering it is so in a good way, not too far on the subject and reaching enough to get to relevant fields to your points. About the question you asked last, I don't think there will be a shift in the way you describe. First because those politics may stop being profitable to have for the companies who pose them, shifting through other profiles out necessity; and second because, though I'm probably making a far-fetched claim, most people having a sense of doom towards some kind of fate for humanity, as if the task of prospering past this point or some not-so-far point in the future is "too much for humans to handle".
@Tristslayer
@Tristslayer 2 года назад
Tbh I feel the shift in global climate policy can be more closely aligned to shifts in profitability, rather than moral attribution to largely inhuman governmental systems, as evidenced by the "lost decade" of carbon worsening in the early 2000s. Greta Thunberg is an interesting case, but it's worth noting her parents' role in her campaign and their job as media/marketing entrepreneurs. To me, it would be difficult to evidence a theory that charted identitarian media shifts role in climate praxis and policy outside of existing socioeconomic and class-political power structures, particularly when information monopolisation is at all time highs, with the feedback loop of algorithmic content being held almost entirely by what Varoufakis describes as the "Cloudalists". The effects of direct action groups based around older paradigms of solidarity such as the Gilets Jaunes or XR have arguably lead to more demonstrative shifts in local or national policy.
@hans-georgmoeller7027
@hans-georgmoeller7027 2 года назад
These are all very good points. As to your final question: Do you believe it shall be the work of 'identity politics' that will ultimately provoke the kind of dramatic re-orientations toward ecological sustainability? I am not sure. The communication theme of ecology provides a lot of opportunities for profile building, including an opportunity for you to build your academic profile. These are its immediate social effects. The effects of this kind of communication on the extra-social and extra-psychological environment (i.e: the planet) are difficult/impossible to assess. Will your academic work help saving the planet-? Hard to tell. Did Christianity make the world more full of love, and did it bring humanity closer to salvation? Hard to tell. But it certain;y created a lot of opportunities for people to identify themselves in certain ways. Or, put differently: does it make a difference for the planet if people sincerely commit to ecology, authentically embrace it, or are truly invested in their ecological profiles? I am not sure. But it makes a difference for themselves.
@ewanjenkins
@ewanjenkins 2 года назад
@@hans-georgmoeller7027 Thanks for your thoughtful reply professor. I have some follow-up thoughts that I would again appreciate your reflection on, though I apologise again for the length of the reply. I'd be happy to correspond on a different format if you were willing to engage with me on these topics. I think a comparative analysis of different identity schemes and the ecological relations they fashion, phenomenologically and empirically, would be a compelling study. For instance, I related your writings on Sincerity with accounts of indigenous ontologies regarding how they experience/perceive place, non-human life, and their situation in the lifeworld. I have limited familiarity only with Okanagan and Anishinaabe philosophies from West Canada, but as I understand their accounts of their traditions, identity is certainly 'fixed' to place, occupations were lasting and had ancestral ties, to the extent that one's name corresponded to one's social occupation ('i am of the river' or 'he is one who grows white ash trees'). Responsibility to place, occupations and community is front and center of their ethical involvement, which institutes a kind of cyclical renewal of the sincere relationship with the place they are situated. Being land-based, where Being is 'sited' in Heidegger's terms, is not experienced as a lack. In this sense, their sincere relationships and sense of self is also authentic. I recognise a lot of scholars latch onto indigenous accounts as part of the philosophical quest to re-site 'authentic' Being. There is a continuity from Heidegger onwards of attempting to resituate Being within this sincere-authentic fixed relation to place, such that we are phenomenologically and empirically 'pre-modern' in a sense. I think it can be observed, mostly amongst young people, a move toward embracing indigenous ethics towards the cause of ecological justice/restoration, yet such commitment remains profilic to the extent that it obviously requires a great deal of time, a shared culture, and a number of other elements such that one's orientation actually takes on the 'feel' of a sincere-authentic paradigm. This is also why I agree that the political new-sincerity types, from Rorty to Fukuyama who call for a new large-scale civic secular collective identity, or a left-nationalism, are naive in their belief that we can return to such an identity-scheme. Yet I am also impressed by land-based activism in Europe, for instance, NoTAV in France and ZAD in Italy (where an account can be read in the book "The Zad and NoTAV: Territorial Struggles and the Making of a New Political Intelligence") where land-defense constitutes an arena where a diverse political community springs up, and attracts people from across the world to come and live and contribute, tapping into the social nomadism of people looking for causes to root themselves in and identify with. To me these struggles have been authentic in a way that almost transcends the paradox at the heart of authenticity, where commitment to land-defense seriously endangers one's broader social and judicial identity and is expressed not so much profilically by the individuals involved (anonymity is often necessary to avoid the surveillance which would endanger their broader social identity from being linked to disruptive and illegal land-defense) but is experienced as the day-to-day participation of people developing political and militant strategies to realise their cause in each differentiated sphere: legally, politically, and socially. Individuals seem to sacrifice the rewards of curating a socially acceptable profilic identity to engage in illegal, but authentic, activism for a cause (which still yields some profilic benefits, but i'm skeptical as to this being the primary drive behind their commitments). I understand that this is basically what Andreas Malm wants in his books like 'How to Blow Up a Pipeline' - an authentic care for ecological justice that transcends profilic value-creation and endangers one's broader social identity. The same could be said for XR, GreenPeace, the DeepGreen movement and other militant eco-activists. The movie 'Woman At War' presents a stylised account of Malm's ideal activist: a woman in a mostly middle-class Icelandic community who presents a socially acceptable profile in her public life, whilst committing domestic terrorism and disrupting fossil-capital's power grids in solitary acts which she thereafter promotes in an anonymous manifesto under an alias. This anonymous profile is then reported on by the media, and she overhears how this profile - not entirely curated by her - is received by her community (in more and more positive ways). In this example, it is not so much her individual actions which are most disruptive of fossil capital, but the popularity of the profile and its positive affirmation by the general peer which potentially entails a broader shift in public orientation toward similar, or even more extreme actions. The activist in question is involved in a dilemma of whether to commit extreme actions that threaten to alienate the general peer and ultimately undermine the cause. Eco-activism is similarly hamstringed by the dynamic (or dialectical?) limits of second-order observation by those who engage in struggles profilically. I see it as particularly pertinent to your analysis that the struggles of eco-activists of all stripes is also waged in the social sphere of second-order observation; the law gains the upper hand if the media is able to portray those engaged in land-defense as vandals, terrorists or unethical, disorganised delinquents. Yet if the movement maintains an attractive profile (which they are compelled to create to effectively struggle in the social domain) they resist this spectacular evaluation perpetrated by the media and a negative evaluation by the general peer. I remember the brief CHAZ occupation during the BLM protests that was swiftly demonised by FOX news as a good example of how struggling over the moral evaluation of profiles, of both individuals and causes, is a necessary element in modern activism. Propaganda historically has basically realised that projecting a negative profile of the Other into the public gaze permits certain militant, imperialist, or interventionist actions with minimised risk of retaliation or unrest. My follow-up questions off the back of this are: does 'Nature' itself have a profile that has been constructed in different ways historically and culturally that permits forms of identification? Does land-based commitment, constructing one's identity as connected to place, actually engender forms of sincere-authentic ethics, politics and identities with suitably altered phenomenological-empirical relations? Does self-awareness of the need to project a profile of one's cause, and one's identity, necessarily undermine a sincere-authentic relation to one's place or cause? Should eco-activism embrace the profilic dimension of their struggle though it entails a sophisticated curation of their cause and is limited by 'what is acceptable' in second-order observation, or rather pursue an 'authentic' relation to ecological justice which may engender more extreme acts, demanding as it does transcending the legal limits of the State or the social limits of second-order observation?
@hans-georgmoeller7027
@hans-georgmoeller7027 Год назад
@@ewanjenkins I agree: a"comparative analysis of different identity schemes and the ecological relations they fashion, phenomenologically and empirically" is compelling and I hope you'll pursue the topic. Basically everything you say in your comment seems plausible to me, but I am not that familiar with the subject and especially not with many of the concrete types of activism you mention. My brief answer to the question about "Nature" is: Yes. A brief response to the other questions is: I don't think that in today's society eco-activism can be non-profilic. Any "return" to previous modes of sincerity-authenticity will have to be embedded in profile-oriented communication if it is supposed to have any activist or political effect, because activism and politics, by definition, speak to the general peer. I think that activism should "embrace', or rather acknowledge this and be fully aware of it. Maybe your work can help raising this awareness. In this way, you may be able to contribute to the cause.
@RedSpark_
@RedSpark_ 2 года назад
Professor, I have a question that I've been meaning to ask for a while but I'm not sure how to word it precisely, so I'm sorry if this is a bit rambling. How do you think the passage of time affects our identity through profilicity as opposed to authenticity? For example, through authenticity we can sort of escape from our past because as we grow as people our 'true selves' changes and so we can be authentic in the moment to both our past self and our present self through different, or even contradictory behaviour. Where as through the lense of profilicty it feels like everything is judged by the current status quo. Old content and consequently it's creator (in the present) are condemed if it fails to meet todays standards, even if it was acceptable at the time. The obvious example is things like youtubers getting in trouble for saying something questionable 10-15 years ago but I think that it also applies to much broader and tamer contexts such as artists/musicians removing early content of theirs, or things that aren't as polished that don't meet their current standard, or the standard for the identity they are trying to build. If this fundamental difference does exist, shouldn't people mercilessly prune their profile from everything that doesn't currently match or send the 'right' message? Thanks. Edit; Further thoughts, I suppose the main distinction would be that through authenticity you can be congruent to yourself as you change as a person, but through profilicity you are required to be congruent to a profile that might not in-of-itself change. I wonder if this might make us more static in our identity and be unwilling to change and grow.
@addy_hits
@addy_hits 2 года назад
at around 11:50, I think you meant to say "transition from authenticity to profilicity"
@zainmudassir2964
@zainmudassir2964 10 месяцев назад
Thanks for the vid sir. Social media can be addictive but it can be fun in small doses
@v.ra.
@v.ra. 2 года назад
Just to say, I do not agree fully with the rest of the contents but I love the conclusion of this video! The current identity technology shift creates a boundary situation (reference to Jaspers). The tension implicit in it can be a source of truly becoming and being or… suicide
@sameraleid
@sameraleid Год назад
Listening to you has a soothing effect. I think there are some essential differences between unsupervised playing and profile building, as the first is real or physical and the other is virtual for the most part. I think we tend to overlook and better hide the damage of profile building as it’s mostly psychological, whereas the risk in unsupervised playing is most likely some physical injury that can’t be overlooked, thus and dealt with immediately. Another difference is that unsupervised playing probably existed throughout all human history, whereas profile building is a new forest where it get dark too often. Another difference is a distinction made by Theodore Kaczynski in his paper “Industrial society and its future “ that there are autonomous goals and artificial goals; unsupervised playing is autonomous in nature thus it is gratifying and rewarding since it’s about setting goals, making efforts and attaining them. Whereas in profile building, and although it follows the strategy of setting a goal, making and effort and attainment of goal, it is not gratifying because it is an artificial goal. Please share with us your thoughts on Kaczynski’s idea of autonomy and goals.
@swaeyl3883
@swaeyl3883 2 года назад
Well, thanks, you just spoilered the end of "the sorrows of young Werther" for me
@nicuhosu
@nicuhosu 2 года назад
Interesting video! I appreciate the points where the transition from sincerity to authenticity is compared to the current transition. That is, if there truly is or even was a fundamental transition. Now, I cannot stress enough how useful I find prof. Moeller's identity technologies, as concepts, ever since having encountered them. I still feel that there are some problems that are so obvious, they may as well be hiding in plain sight. As stated by some people in their early twenties in the comments, when they used to be teenagers, they simply wanted recognition. It is even hard to speak of "authenticity" when it comes to teenagers, as their selves are very unstable. This unstable self then gets broadcast via social media. Yes, sure, the feedback is not from actual peers, but a general peer and teenagers see themselves as they are being seen (second order observation) but it still does not change the fact that it is their own selves that they are expressing/broadcasting. Of course, in the case of a corporation or celebrity, one can talk of having no access to the authentic "self" of those entities, only to their profiles. But when a teenager embraces some internet aesthetic like "light academia" and shares their curated Spotify playlist, they do it to say "this is who I am" and not "this is what I feel will have the best change at getting likes". Sure, since we all like getting likes (positive feedback from the general peer), we might, in time, develop skills to post content that is more likely to get more and more likes, but that doesn't mean we necessarily change aesthetics from "light academia" to "k-pop" because "k-pop" is more popular. I mean, it might be true in some cases. But a "bookworm" generally won't become "Belieber" just to become more popular - this is true both online and offline. They might become ever more proficient at getting positive feedback for being either a bookworm or a Belieber (again, both online and offline) but there still something "real" at stake. What I mean by "real" is whatever the self of that teen, however unstable, sees itself as being at any given time.
@gh0s1wav
@gh0s1wav 2 года назад
First the feedback is from actual peers especially if those peers follow your profile. Second I agree that a teenager putting something on their profile is more of a way of saying "this is something I like/believe in" and not so much of "this'll get me a lot of likes/I'll feel validated" I believe alot (if not most) people do that even after their teenage years. If people are teased about it they might take it down/feel shame. If alot of people LOVE IT then they might try to do something like it again. It's really all about that like button...and view count. Take those two stats away and you get a bunch of people who just put themselves out there. It sort of reminds me of how Instagram just added a like button for stories. Like I used to post stories and not care about how many people saw them or if anybody liked them which made me not think too much about posting them but now that I get a notification everytime someone likes one of my stories I sort of get an odd feeling when there's a story no one's liked. I really don't think the blatant display of stats are necessary for social media platforms to work. I think the operators of the platforms know that the dopamine rush of getting a like, a follower, a bunch of views on a story make people want to come back for more. That's the main reason they do it.
@armchairecon
@armchairecon 2 года назад
This, also online drift (the algorithms tendency to curate an environment of progressively extreme content in whichever direction you already fall) exacerbates this. I also think if you generalize this to maybe more actionable ideas such as politics or health choices, one can see the tendency to become crystallized in beliefs. There also never exists the need to openly have ones ideas challenged in the real world as its risky to the curated profile and also there exists a plethora of like minded content and individuals on your feed.
@Celestity
@Celestity 2 года назад
I was thinking of Werther since the beginning of the video! Also I really enjoy the new spaces of the videos... authentic may be?
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn 2 года назад
I've long been curious - what is that music that plays for the brief moment at the end of all the videos on this channel, just before it ends?
@fazdsouza9422
@fazdsouza9422 2 года назад
Carsick Cars - You Can Listen You Can Talk ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Koq-G8Ose4k.html
@hans-georgmoeller7027
@hans-georgmoeller7027 2 года назад
Carsick Cars - You Can Listen You Can Talk: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Koq-G...
@KRYPTOS_K5
@KRYPTOS_K5 Год назад
This analysis is very good. O Jovem Werther is an excellent illustration of your general thesis of transition. Your video of social dilemma the movie however was weak in terms of political science and pragmatic approach. Brasil
@LukeLavablade
@LukeLavablade 2 года назад
When I used reddit (which I thankfully just chose not to bookmark when I got a new computer), I would only downvote posts or comments that already had more than, say, 10 upvotes. If something had relatively few votes I didn't want to try to set a trend. This was because I was aware that other people used upvotes as a measure of how worthy something was to be upvoted in the first place. I almost took the opposite view, that if something had a lot of upvotes it had to impress me more to earn my own upvote compared to something else. Another thing I did was I had RES (reddit enhancement suite) which kept track of each user and the upvote/downvote tally I had for them. So, if I had given them 2 upvotes and 1 downvote across all their posts, their score for me would be +1. I strove to make sure every person I interacted with had a 0 rating from me. If I upvoted two of their posts in a row and their score became a +2 or more, I deliberately went to their profile to find a post I disliked in order to downvote it, or vice versa if I downvoted two in a row. To me, these measures helped me feel like I wasn't being sucked in to the social media loop. In reality, it addicted me more because 1) It forced me to internalise the behaviour second order observation, as you put it, because in trying to maintain a 'neutral' stance, I validated the belief that other people should hold value in the reactions other people have to their posts and 2) It created a subgame within the social media system that made me feel 'special' - even though my behaviour was intentionally nondisruptive. It's scary all the multifaceted ways social media trains us to be our own captors. EDIT: As soon as I posted this, I immediately started thinking about how other people will engage with it. Will they like it? I wish it didn't have to be this way.
@peterhardie4151
@peterhardie4151 2 года назад
We are all trapped in this to some degree.
@nicoladisvevia
@nicoladisvevia 2 года назад
I would have thought that anxiety and depression among (especially female) teenagers was mainly caused by the lack of popularity - lack of likes and followers - and need of validation for how they present themselves on social media, and not by the conflict with any demands for authenticity. True, we may need to learn how to better cope with second-order self-perception: popularity on social media - if measured by likes and followers - is, at least on the present model, extremely unevenly distributed.
@gradualdecay
@gradualdecay 2 года назад
Also, what you said about Werther's popularity among people who felt stifled by society reminds me of how many people treat the character of the Joker today.
@tobiastnnessen3224
@tobiastnnessen3224 2 года назад
Hoy. I appreciate these videos a lot. Thanks 😊 I am curious of what you think of psychological theories, like the ones by Carl Jung and Sigmund Fraud. Its maybe a bit on the side but it seams connected with the autentisety moduel.
@user-rl7hm7ix5n
@user-rl7hm7ix5n 2 года назад
Very good analysis. I feel like the Werther story has something fundamentally different to it though. In the case of teenages nowadays, I don't think the authority figures still operating highly in the authentic mode matters that much (we tend to be eager to defy previous generations values). I think Werther doesn't go through all that because the authority figures are still sincere, but because his "equals" still are. The same way, even though there's a new profilic mode, teenagers still hold a lot of authentic values/mentality themselves. So it is as if you should commit to a profile kinda in the same way you commit to a role in sincerity societies, but not one that is pre-approved, well-established and respected, but a original one you have to create yourself and you have no idea how it is going to be judged by your peers. Still holding authentic values, you also have none of the "I'll sincerely commit to this role with no problems" mentality. The difference between "role" and "profile" also plays a huge part imo, in the "role" you are always living it, while in the "profile" there's some alienation between the profile you're curating and the other parts of your life. I feel like a lot of the anxiety comes from 1) having to create this original profile; 2) having to commit to something that you don't know if you want and that you also don't fully know yet how it's going to be perceived; 3) feeling a kind of alienation between the curated profile and your "whole life"; 4) knowing that getting out of this mode comes with social consequences; (on top of all the other things commented in the video, that is). (This is all perception an personal bias though, I don't really have a strong argument for it) I don't know much in order to comment how it is in Chinese society, but it seems like non-commitment to being something (lacking better words here) seems like a strong value? (I get this mainly from taoism and neo-confucianism, which seems to me very influentional culturally). So this could also help explain why the points above are less of an issue. It does seem to be a value that would clash with "sincere roles" as well, so idk. Maybe since you can't actually be nothing, by being nothing you tend to naturally and sincerely perform a role that comes naturally to you? It would be very very interesting to see your take on that as well (how taoist values operate together w/ the more "traditional roles" oriented society that China seems to be).
@VashdaCrash
@VashdaCrash 2 года назад
So, in order to build an authentic profile one should start by copying another and then developing from that as one see fit. That's what I gathered from this anyway, the idea that authenticity is born through imitation and development of the self through the assimilation of other profiles.
@Draxtor
@Draxtor 9 месяцев назад
I am sure Georg you will find the work of Tom Boellstorff and Donna Davis as seen in our film “Our Digital Selves” quite illuminating. We explore avatar identity and place-making. I am aware that Second Life is much more than simply a social media platform but precisely for the reason of virtual worlds that are not driven by an algorithm which creates constant anxiety over how one is represented vis-a-vis the public in the context over whichever big data platform, this pressure free sandbox environment lets members of intentional communities explore identity without market pressure. My film about the pandemic and isolation & digital cultures similarly suggests a Metaverse built around small groups, represented through avatars in public spaces where competition to “one up” the other and/or feel confined by norms of either “real” (physical) world or platform specific priorities completely fall away and free the self.
@RetVersus
@RetVersus 2 года назад
On the topic of whether this would affect Chinese youth for example theres a lot more problems doing a similar analysis, not least of all the fact that wechat, weibo, billibilli etc. do not share the sub structure of western social media in a lot of cases (nor funding models I presume). Chinese cultural history does include a strong emphasis on face for sure, but similarly a huge emphasis on relationship building and networking, most obvious in 关系 and its continued influence upon social structures. In my brief and still inadequate experience of living there I saw that young Chinese people, though still subject to the same profile building pressures, were nowhere near as riddled with anxiety about it. I believe you highlight this in the video when you mention the potential clash of values - Chinese people to an extent have always been expected to structure their identity in this way to some extent (in relation to others I.e confucian ideas) and so transitioned more smoothly to the online era, at least it seems to me.
@user-be8ec8gl6t
@user-be8ec8gl6t Год назад
Brilliant! Vielen Dank! Bitte mehr davon!
@yorrick1971
@yorrick1971 2 года назад
I thought this was great analysis, but would have really been helped by you digging in to what you mean by sincerity and authenticity and the implied conflict between the two, in this context - because, at first glance, they don't seem to be two states which are obviously in conflict. We tend to think in fact of authenticity and sincerity being almost synonyms, so if you could add something in the text at the top to set out what you mean, that would be helpful.
@ceruchi2084
@ceruchi2084 2 года назад
Would a pseudonymous profile fulfill the need for "profilicity"? Like a Twitter account that only replies to people with puns but then gains its own following. Does the operator feel he has a successful identity even though it can't be traced back to his real name, address, life? I would love another video or two on how profile-building actually works and the psychological conflicts it creates, which are presumably different from the conflicts created within the authenticity technology. I do not maintain any profiles on social media, and so I don't have a good sense of what it feels like.
@steingar7820
@steingar7820 2 года назад
Thank you professor. One thing you said in particular caught my attention: how, many of the problems we're seeing in the West around this issue are due to the resistance to profilicity coming from the dominant mode of authenticity, and that this tension observationally might not be as pronounced in a society where sincerity is the dominant mode (like China). But it seems to me that a sincerity based society (oriented around the earnest adoption of, and identification with, roles) might in some ways be even more hostile to the nebulous and socially "useless" adoption of profiles for the sake of the general peer. Do you have any additional thoughts or hypotheses about this idea? (I suppose we won't know for sure till a cross-cultural study is performed, but I'd be interested in your perspective.)
@telkmx
@telkmx 2 года назад
As you pointed I don’t think it make too much sense to say that Asian societies have a smaller suicide rate (if they even rly do) because of the type of technology of identities that are or were in place. Things like suicide taboo (people may be less faced with stories of suicide and acceptation of it as a solution to anything), the relation with death, the impact of suicide on the family and the stigma of it pushing ppl to hide it may well be more meaningful than the opposition of different technologies of identities where it may be more a matter of switching technologies and it being visible than the type of technologies you were transitioning from.
@enotecapiemontissimo8254
@enotecapiemontissimo8254 2 года назад
Your take misses the necessity to live in our shared reality in which we take care of food etc - those children unlearn to be happy in this reality
@gh0s1wav
@gh0s1wav 2 года назад
Awesome video as always prof. I don't like Adam Friended but that quote you put up by him is pretty relevant. I feel this not just in my personal life but in my music making life. I've noticed that if I want people to listen to my music and follow me on the internet I HAVE to make something relevant and I have to make something consistent to whatever general peer I attract finds enjoyable. If I just try to ignore the feedback loop I just fall into obscurity and at the end of the day why post stuff on the internet if it's never going to get seen. I started making music on a basis of authenticity but it seems like it's very hard to operate with that paradigm in the age of the internet. I've found it very hard to transition to a mindset of prolificity with music but as time goes on I realize that's what I'm going to have to do to a much higher degree if I want anyone to care about any particular musical profile I create.
@TheJayman213
@TheJayman213 2 года назад
That Werther-comparison seems so on-the-mark, it's crazy.
@AgorizTribe
@AgorizTribe 2 года назад
This can be related to the idea of Erik From? The automate mind?. our personal profile is or exists, only to the extent that we accept the information and norms of our context?
@nathanpaulson9460
@nathanpaulson9460 2 года назад
Thank you for your analysis. I'm not entirely clear why and how these different technologies of identity construction are necessarily mandatory - as you observe, the different models overlap. There are to this day people who understand and construct their identity according to the "sincerity" model, others to the "authenticity" model, and others to the "profilicity" model. It sounds like you think it will become impossible to cling on to these older models of identity in the emerging age of profilicity. Would you mind going into a little more detail on why you think this is the case? Your argument remains quite abstract, and I am struggling to envision the mechanism by which the other modes of identity are *necessarily* displaced.
@el_equidistante
@el_equidistante 2 года назад
Authenticity became about as a reaction to sincerity, you cannot be authentic if you follow a social role, in the same vain, profilicity cannot be authentic in the sense that it's always virtual, it's pretending, and in that sense it's also not authentic, but it can be an escape of the pressures of being authentic since you can have and hide behind different profiles, or because you can construct a life virtually that you don't have in actuality. The 3 modes reside on the shadows of each other.
@carlosdumbratzen6332
@carlosdumbratzen6332 2 года назад
I am not sure if the observation about unsupervised playing is correct. I have worked as a social worker with kids and I've seen it both in my childhood (which was in the 00s and early 10s) and my brothers childhood (he is 10 currently) that unsupervised playing is still a huge part of childhood, both in the city and the countryside. Obviously the country and the regions play a role in this (I grew up in Dresden, worked as a social worker in Hamburg and my brother is growing up in Schleswig Holstein). I ran around the city forest as a kid and as a young teen never instantly went home after school but ran around the inner city with my friends (and did all sorts of slightly illegal stuff), played football or table tennis or cards or whatever. Ive seen similar stuff with the kids I supervised in 2017/18 and with my brother currently who is constantly running around town and the fields with his friends. Obviously this varies greatly from person to person, but even if the kids have access to stuff like consols and smartphones it happens often that they are just forgotten at some point, when they are with their friends.
@donistotle957
@donistotle957 2 года назад
Would love to see some content about Jiddu Krishnamurti
@gh0s1wav
@gh0s1wav 2 года назад
Do you think that there's any piece of art (book or movie) that contrast profilicity and authenticity?
@binhe6500
@binhe6500 Год назад
"His name is Adam Friended by the way" 😂😂The professor is funny as hell
@doctorisout
@doctorisout 2 года назад
Real-world youth organizations used to mediate hyper-authenticity seeking. Scouting used to be popular. As well as religious youth groups. And of course there still are athletics. Experiential youth organizations buffered hyper-authenticity: their ubiquity in socialization provided more facets. With more points of view you get more mirroring as you form identity.
@battragon
@battragon Месяц назад
It's actually rather toxic to distinguish between "young people" and "not young people". Grown-ups are more or less equally rare in all age groups. (I'm a bartender, so I know what I'm talking about.)
@BigAussieDonkey
@BigAussieDonkey 2 года назад
Leaving a second comment now that I've watched the whe video 😂😂 I've got no interest at all in profile building on social media. I have experienced the feeling of distraction in life when I have work to do but my mind is wondering if I will get a reaction on this or that. I have also experienced distraction when thinking about whether this or that outfit/haircut is a better representation of my true self! Maybe you could say that is just an unhealthy version of something that could also be done healthfully... I'm not sure about that. I think if we are going to give people advice about identity, we should not be advising them to "lean in" to profilicity. Nor authenticity, nor sincerity for that matter. Being preoccupied with one's identity is not healthful in any mode of construction. Actually, I think that the advice that we should give people is to reflect on universality - reflect on the common experience. Reflect (if one must) on the ways in which they are not anything special, nor is anybody else for that matter. But really, better to not think about these things too much at all. It's all just a twisted knot of paradoxes and suffering and distraction.
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn 2 года назад
'Cept people don't like to feel that they're not anything special, so this seems like a non-starter as they'd quickly lose motivation.
@BigAussieDonkey
@BigAussieDonkey 2 года назад
@@ArawnOfAnnwn I guess we're all born to suffer then
@sofistdecaydead
@sofistdecaydead 2 года назад
I swear, every fucking century in the past and every fucking century going forward, people are gonna have difficulty integrating with the society of their time. We always come up with some answer that conveniently contains information already in our hands, never out of our understanding. Maybe this shit is normal. Maybe this shit is to be expected. Maybe my "mental health issues" are part of the package deal that is humanity. This whole reason thing is unreasonable.
@deathbycognitivedissonance5036
@deathbycognitivedissonance5036 2 года назад
I would say post industrial revolution, this has been a much more severe phenomenon of integration. Prior to that, problem's of "fitting in" was not exactly a social issue. Social media and the Internet more broadly has been uniquely devastating to the human psyche.
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn 2 года назад
The past was far more stable, albeit this wasn't necessarily a good thing. A person born to a farmer or tradesman in some village or town could expect to just carry on the family occupation, and all the norms associated therein, for the rest of their life. The way their father or mother (depending on which gender the person is) lived was pretty much a blueprint for how they themselves would live.
@sofistdecaydead
@sofistdecaydead 2 года назад
@@ArawnOfAnnwn This is what i am talking about. We can’t know for sure as history has a tendency of smoothing out the bumps. Imagine that the farmer was bad at his job in years 1-7 of his 30 year career, and questioned his status. Only to grow accepting and competent by year 8, then we chuck him in the “Well he did fine” bucket, forgetting his existential dread early on. I feel much better leaning into uncertainty on this topic. This wheel spinning shit gets tiring.
@Snafuski
@Snafuski 2 года назад
Could we not begin to consider the profile as a kind of alter ego? I feel (in myself and others), that the profile is often a kind of Mr Hyde to a Dr Jekyll, though not as contrary or contrasting. We take elements of our authentic/original self and park them into a new profile of our self. It might take a generation or two until we can somehow join the profiles to the "real" selves. Whereby if I get Lacan, we will never be able to really know ourselves.... right? SO it's all pretty much an illusion, the image of ourself and the mirror of a profile that taps into a part of the self that we cannot live out in the 3D world...
@sarahflavel2508
@sarahflavel2508 2 года назад
Thanks for this interesting discussion. I have a question. It strikes me that at the heart of contemporary profile-building is a desire to express/curate/exhibit a similar notion or projection of the original, inner, authentic and particularly the “unique” self. You pose them here as though they are two modes, in some tension, even suggesting that one (prifilicity) has replaced the other (authenticity), or overtaken it, but I feel that the authenticity paradigm is alive and well as one of the foundational motivations or ideals within profilicity itself. So when you say that they may experience their profile identity as being at odds with the authenticity authorities around, them I find that less convincing than some of the other elements you point to here. Because building the profiles it’s precisely about “showing the real you,” even when of course we may all know that the curated and photoshopped version that is the actual profile is very far indeed from an earnest authenticity (or a genuine-genuineness). But the hypocrisy of the authentic (the disingenuity) that betrays itself in the authenticity paradigm is the very same hypocrisy of the honest or unvarnished profile. Recently one of the latest trends, especially among female influencers on instagram is to publicly shun the “filter” function, or “beautify” on Chinese phones, in order to show the unvarnished face as it really is and thereby show that one is not being caught up into the fakeness of the social media landscape. But perhaps there we are finding the hypocrisy of the authentic in its most distilled form? I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter and the authenticity paradigm as it plays a role within profilicity. 🙌
@hans-georgmoeller7027
@hans-georgmoeller7027 2 года назад
Thanks, Sarah. I think authenticity is "aufgehoben" in profilicity, in the Hegelian triple sense: eliminated, maintained, and raised to another level. Put in a different philosophical vocabulary, authenticity 's "simulated" in profilicity and put in its service: which means that while performing and displaying authenticity (e.g.: "show the unvarnished face") one produces a sort of "copy" of authenticity--instead of the "beauty" filter, one uses the "authenticity filter", so to speak. Authenticity is used to enhance profilicity. The same can be done with sincerity, i.e. by curating a profile of "loving mother" or "dedicated husband" on Facebook.
@michamichalak6200
@michamichalak6200 Год назад
@@hans-georgmoeller7027 i think it is not simulated, but just displayed. Attention is power, so are likes, views etc. Digital profiles are just tool for acquiring and displaying power and it can be done by showing filtered buttocks or doing something authentically. Like in life, you can acquire power by being competent or by lying ( beauty filter) and the digital media promotes the latter.
@JordanSullivanadventures
@JordanSullivanadventures Год назад
Nice analysis. Could you use a tripod next time though? The shaky cam is a little nausea-inducing.
@gradualdecay
@gradualdecay 2 года назад
I've always wondered if people don't have this data backwards: that it isn't social media use that causes depression, but depression that causes social media use. Social media certainly can impact your mental health, don't get me wrong, but I think people's assumption that 'the real world' is so much better is erroneous. Example: I developed depression and social anxiety entirely due to my real world environment. I was extremely lonely and so I went online to make friends (this was an internet forum, so maybe not directly comparable to modern juggernauts like Twitter). I was far happier there than before, but after a few years I felt an immense societal pressure to have friends in the real world instead of online. So I left, for about three years. And nothing changed - my anxiety and depression remained and I didn't make any new friends. All I had done is deprive myself of my support network. So eventually I came back and things picked up considerably from there. I met my long-term girlfriend on social media, so I'm extremely thankful to it for making that possible when we live in different cities. TLDR; social media has problems but we shouldn't assume everyone will fit nicely into their surroundings without it.
@Maynard0504
@Maynard0504 2 года назад
I think it's exactly this second order observation that is detrimental to their mental health. Social media seems to have convinced them that they will be judged first and foremost for their physical appearance. That a persons value is almost entirely derived from their looks. The social media space is dominated by attractive people who are perceived as having "perfect" physical features, so their conclusion is that in order to be accepted (social media popularity) and function (likes/comments and other forms of abstract social validation) within a group, certain physical standards have to be met. Add to this the fact that the makeup/beauty industry has been using female physical insecurities as a marketing strategy since the days of widespread television and now has found a new hotbed for advertising in social media influencers.
@tim290280
@tim290280 2 года назад
I'm generally pretty critical of Haidt as a smart guy who is trapped in an ideological box. I think his analysis of teens and social media is limited, superficial (co-variates anyone??), and desperately in need of critical theory. In the Friedman clip (and don't get me started on him), Haidt sidles up to an analysis of power structures and then retreats as quickly as possible to talk about it from an individualist point of view.
@tim290280
@tim290280 2 года назад
@@priapulida I'd have expected a more thoughtful response from commenters on Prof Moeller's videos. Do you expect anyone familiar with philosophy to take your assertion that "the West, all big tech companies, all social media" are left-wing seriously?
@tim290280
@tim290280 2 года назад
@@priapulida, so you do expect people to take your widely wrong assertion seriously. Okay, so please explain how in your mind neoliberal, capitalistic, and hierarchical authoritarian businesses are "lefties" when those traits are antithetical to leftist politics.
@tim290280
@tim290280 2 года назад
@@priapulida, right, so you have no explanation nor understanding.
@tim290280
@tim290280 2 года назад
@@priapulida, you're several comments into a discussion you don't think is productive, which you have made unproductive by making a rather outlandish claim at odds with any credible evidence.
@tim290280
@tim290280 2 года назад
@@priapulida, it isn't "my view" at all. You're trying to assert something that is contrary to the politics and philosophy of "leftism". So unless you have something credible to overturn literally every bit of politics, economics, history, and philosophy, then I'd say you're either trolling or need to step out of your bubble.
@hjosig
@hjosig 2 года назад
So, to sum up: While Haidt may be correct about the dangers of social media use, Moeller suggests that it arises from the stress of establishing and maintaining two discordant, yet equally real, 'profiles' -- one 'authentic', i.e. in the "real world" of face-to-face communication, and one 'inauthentic', i.e. an online profile -- in a world which has not yet figured out how to do that. Moeller thus suggests that the answer isn't to revert to a pre-"profilitious" world by limiting access to social media, but rather to trust that society will figure out how to harmonize these two 'profiles', or 'selves'. Anything I missed or got wrong?
@gh0s1wav
@gh0s1wav 2 года назад
Yeah he's not saying that society has to learn to harmonize these two profiles he's just saying that one's more dominant than the other. Authenticity used to be more dominant, this idea that you have to be true to yourself while profilicity, putting yourself out there and that self being validated by your audience is dominant right now. People are already using it. It's already been in the mainstream it's just that people are still attached to the nondominant paradigm and keep trying to push it. That's the conflict. It's like reading the directions on how to steer a canoe but your in a car. That's the conflict. I feel like alot of people's frustrations about this idea would be settled if they were to read You and Your Profile. I struggled with alot of this before reading the book but it definitely makes it alot more clear.
@hjosig
@hjosig 2 года назад
@@gh0s1wav I must've missed him saying the 'profile' is currently more dominant than the 'authentic self'. If that's the case, then he's surely wrong -- most people are clearly more impacted by their face-to-face relationships (familial, work, friends, etc.) than their online presence. I can, however, sympathize with the idea that online profiles have become part of many individuals' self-concept, and that hopefully with time online profiles will be more harmonious with the 'other selves' (for lack of a better word).
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn 2 года назад
"but rather to trust that society will figure out" - sounded like he said teenagers need help doing this, not that it'll all be okay in time.
@kasralajani8663
@kasralajani8663 5 дней назад
It would be interesting to compare profile building on different platforms. I have no empirical evidence to support this assertion, but I feel like the average reddit user is happier than the average instagram user. Both have mechanisms to allow for feedback/validation from the general peer, but (with a number of the exceptions like subreddits that focus on rating people’s face or body etc) I feel like feedback on reddit is more focused on the quality of the posted content than on the quality of the person who posted the content. In other words, I feel like criticism on reddit doesn’t have such a direct impact on a person’s self-perception. The greater anonymity is likely a major factor, but I feel like there are other factors at play.
@Dommusicman
@Dommusicman Год назад
This is also a problem with content creators with low self-esteem.
@block01studio25
@block01studio25 2 года назад
Have you read the book "Influencer - die Ideologie der Werbekörper" by Wolfgang M. Schmitt and Ole Nymoen? Its worth checking out.
@cine4551
@cine4551 2 года назад
👍
@kernalfleak
@kernalfleak 2 года назад
so using the internet with no guide is a form of unsupervised play? interesting I feel like having a guide tho would have helped me understand how to use the internet in a better way early on. unsupervised play felt like I was rediscovering things already known by man at a snail pace and making the same mistakes along the way. the help from an adult who got their information from books/ certified programs/ experience, would have informed me with the philosophical equivalent of what I was doing and pointed me towards what I needed to read and learn more about. instead I had to climb out of the cave of ignorance myself and wasted precious man years and made many mistakes.
@SkodaUFOInternational
@SkodaUFOInternational Год назад
Can you do one on Harari please.
@shnebb
@shnebb 2 года назад
Link to study about suicide in China?
@kerycktotebag8164
@kerycktotebag8164 Год назад
People seem deadset on blaming profilicity alone & blaming authenticity alone, when you seem to be pointing out that it's more due to how the two contradict each other during the transition, especially prior to disambiguating language being developed. Which makes me wonder if ppl are trapped in one fixation or another and refusing to look dialectically bc it's too threatening to them to even attempt negotiating the two modes for the exact contradictions & double binds you pointed out. The same ppl who fixate on the issues of profilicity also fail to look at the double binds of authenticity, using profilicity as a scapegoat and refusing to listen to you when you say "Profilicity isn't better or worse" and "Authenticity has problems".
@peterp-a-n4743
@peterp-a-n4743 2 года назад
Could you expand on why you think we need to have profiles? You assert that necessity but I don't get why (18:30). Presumably you got by well as a philosophy professor before starting this channel. I feel like I don't buy into any of the 3 identity building technologies. Isn't the discovery of _sincere insincerity_ also a distancing from a commitment to identity altogether and more like engaging in a game you don't necessarily have skin in?
@hans-georgmoeller7027
@hans-georgmoeller7027 2 года назад
Profiles are not just online. For example" a CV is also (part of) a profile. Without curating my academic profile, I couldn't keep my job.
@crates12
@crates12 Год назад
Although much authenticity is copied, it does exist. More disagreeable types are able to mold the world to their authentic self, Or they fail disastrously.
@sash3497
@sash3497 2 года назад
11.59 do you mean authenticity to profilicity ? Rather than sincerity
@madebyPure
@madebyPure 2 года назад
Perhaps Moeller has explained this before, but why should we adopt profilicity, if it is not better than any other identity technology? Simply because we are in that time? Normative claims seem slippery when one is advocating amorality.
@PhenomUprising
@PhenomUprising 2 года назад
I think it's because in this day and age, building a profile is an important asset (or at least helpful) with day to day life things, such as employment. That said, if you live a life that doesn't need it, then no need to build a profile, imo. And what do you mean by advocating amorality?
@thejibsplice
@thejibsplice 2 года назад
@@PhenomUprising "the moral fool: a case for amorality" is an earlier book by moeller
@tonyrigatoni766
@tonyrigatoni766 2 года назад
I don't think Moeller ever said that "we should adopt profilicity." All he does is observe that we are transitioning from authenticity to profilicity as a dominant method of identity building. I've never heard him argue in favor of this transition, though.
@madebyPure
@madebyPure 2 года назад
@@tonyrigatoni766 perhaps not that clearly. He did however say that it is absolutely necessary to learn how to build a profile and everyone needs to be profilic. Seems a bit too strong. Rather than building profiles online more, maybe it would do us good to step away from image sharing social media, especially for young people.
@tonyrigatoni766
@tonyrigatoni766 2 года назад
@@madebyPure be careful not to conflate something being "absolutely necessary" with a normative claim. "Absolutely necessary" doesn't mean "good," especially for someone like Moeller. I agree that it's a bit strong of a claim, but I'm actually inclined to agree, especially if we think of the "necessity" in terms of survival. I would have a really difficult time accessing food, keeping a roof over my head, and maintaining my personal and professional relationships without building my profile in this day and age. To that extent, it does seem pretty "necessary".
@emanym
@emanym 2 года назад
Profiles are not built. They are lived.
@tara2769
@tara2769 2 года назад
Hi Professor, I wish to ask you where does transgenderism lies in the age of profilicity. is the trans movement the most authentic celebration of identity?
@hans-georgmoeller7027
@hans-georgmoeller7027 Год назад
good question. I tend to think that trans--like other genders, too--has more and more to do with profile curation. In short: traditional gender roles have been increasingly replaced by gender profiles. And transgender is a good example for this shift. Do you have any thoughts on this? (So far, our only video that touches on this issue is the one on Abigail Thorn).
@tara2769
@tara2769 Год назад
@@hans-georgmoeller7027 Thank you professor for your answer. I do agree with what you proposed. For example, social media platforms like Instagram give features to display pronouns. This becomes an integral part of the identity/profile of an individual using it. But It is still fascinating to know whether the profile is a way of promoting authentic identity? it would be nice if we know more about it in your future videos. the topic is fascinating and is something to ponder upon. ( PS: Your videos are very insightful. have a very good day!)
@Liliquan
@Liliquan Год назад
I don’t think social media is directly the problem. The fundamental issue in this case is the harmful politics of schools. Which was well established long before social media. What social media does is expand the boundaries. Usually the politics remained mostly in schools and somewhat in other public places. Social media brings such politics directly into one’s house. The only sanctuary they had to escape it. Another issue mentioned was smart phones which expands the boundaries of social media by making it accessible 24/7, amping the effects it has. Removing social media from the equation doesn’t solve the problem but merely contains it within smaller boundaries. But that’s out of the question in the internet age. Another thing to be done is regulate social media but that’s also out of the question in the capitalist age. Another thing would be to improve the schooling systems which is also basically out of the question in the useless government age which seems never ending.
@morqesahar
@morqesahar 2 года назад
What is the necessity of prolificity in today's society? Shouldn't it be resisted after having seen the way it operates on platforms specifically like Instagram and RU-vid where the content creator advertises a life-style and self that may not be real when the camera isn't turned on i.e. they aren't being observed.
@mcotter12
@mcotter12 Год назад
I probably have a much lower opinion of Goethe than you as I prefer Marlowe's Faust. Have you considered the nature of the text, as a novel meant the reader had little inclination into the ending before reaching it, as no or little social media to share review of that text existed. They were authentic to the text that determined their profile, and due to the text size of the time it was a large part of that profile
@krinkle909
@krinkle909 7 месяцев назад
What about Deleuze's idea that when it comes to identity and profilicity, it's best to be schizophrenic? After all, people change their position often depending on how the world changes... Today I am reading philosophy, but tomorrow, I might work on building a cat door... I could put what I leaned online but chances are that until I learn a bit more, I won't be all that interesting to others so then won't I just fill the Web with what baudrillard called attempts at mediocrity? If I post this then tomorrow i might want to know how pple reacted but this really says very little about me.. so can it still be considered part of the profile? Even though it's so partial?
@thomasmann4536
@thomasmann4536 2 года назад
That's very interesting, but I dont think that it's the attempt to achieve the splits between authenticity and profilicity itself that is responsible for this rise in depression. Rather, I think that at least in part it is due to the problematic nature of the profile building itself: Profiles are built based on trying to imitate obviously fake identities (people only post the good things on social media, thereby crafting an incomplete picture of themselves which teens are not able to pick up on), and people are led to believe that extravagant lifestyles as shown in the pictures are somehow the norm. Furthermore, when people build profiles on social media, they do so in competition with each other. The general peers only have a limited time and attention span, and all those profiles are competing for attention. The more people chase likes and views, the more they get disappointed when that doesnt happen.
@ryandury
@ryandury 2 года назад
This should be good.
@aFoxyFox.
@aFoxyFox. 2 года назад
What do you think?
@the11382
@the11382 2 года назад
The problem with second order observation identities is how shifty online is. People are more willing to say negative things and much less willing to say positive things. And polarity matters. If I say one thing to one group, they wil absolutely hate it. But if I say it to another, they will absolutely love it. Echo chambers are a form of mass confirmation bias. Young people may not see they are just in the wrong community. Especially some websites.
@warrendriscoll350
@warrendriscoll350 Год назад
As always, I feel compelled to offer an alternative theory. Authenticity and profilicity are demonstrated in the data. However the idea that a 'contradiction' between online identity and offline family authenticity is causing suicide, which for the sake of clarity must be taken as a metaphor for the tension created in family and friend dynamics due to different viewpoints, is in my opinion a weak theory. It directly competes with modern left theory of social dynamics. Under such theory, the first most obvious cause of depression due to twitter, Facebook and Instagram, is a phenomenon called doomscrolling, where a person is attracted to and consumes dark content in large amounts. It's like a love of horror stories, but it's actually real. This is already incorporated into standard mental health advice given out to people by psychologists in the current time period. The next major cause would be rejection. This is most obvious on Instagram, where the "winners" are all photo touched up supermodels of some sort, and everyone else is a "loser." This has long been a hot issue in the beauty industry, taken to parodic extreme on Instagram, but there are winners and losers in many aspects of life, most notably in career. The third major cause would be conservative parents. The problem, here, is conservative parents have a hard time accepting the identities of their children. This has made the news on multiple high profile political issues recently. This lack of acceptance of the child could almost, sort of, be shoehorned into a conflict between online identity and offline authenticity, but it has several issues. First, why is this only hitting conservative parents? Where is the conflict with progressive parents? Have all the progressive parents already abandoned authenticity identity for some other identity paradigm? If so, which one? They didn't go backwards to sincerity, and they're not jumping on profilicity. Thus, a fourth identity paradigm must exist. Second, no one is framing this issue in terms of profilicity, but rather, according to self identity, a fourth paradigm, or self experience, which also fits in the authenticity box. Butler's performativity would fit under profilicity, but that one is not primarily used. Why does there exist a gap between people's self report and this theory, if true? Third, when conservative parents reject their children, and the children become depressed, the cause is the rejection by the parents, not a conflict of identity paradigms. This view is shifting focus away from the direct cause and towards a possible indirect cause.
@blehbleh9283
@blehbleh9283 Год назад
Profiles are a necessary evil in some areas (resumes, some services require accounts that are profiles, etc) But: as others have said, it encourages people to claim static identities or labels for themselves. Which doesn't reflect real lived life-that of action! You are your actions, not your 'identity' or 'label' I was a bit disappointed with Professor's take in this video since there is a clear parallelism between second order observation and the story of Narcissus/Echo. There are heavy negatives to profilicity, but it has its contexts where it is useful. The danger is how prolific it is becoming in areas of life like beauty, self worth, social interactions, etc. Those are the areas where I think the story of Narcissus points to some clear negatives
@dazpatreg
@dazpatreg Год назад
Theres never a criticism of the overarching influence of capitalist ideology on this
@nononouh
@nononouh Год назад
5:50 8
@octavus4858
@octavus4858 2 года назад
"profile building is potentially dangerous but so is unsupervised play" i always love professor's punchlines
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