Alternate universe: Shilpa and Colin are NOT perfect logicians. The Host continues to ask "Do you know now?", continuing to get the same response of deafening silence for infinity.
I managed to figure it out in my head in under a minute but if somebody was asking "do you know now?" I would literally not even be able to figure out the first elimination.
This little tidbit here is not to be underestimated; as soon as I saw your comment before I had solved it, I knew I was looking at it wrong and was then able to figure it out pretty easily. Nice looking out.
I'm glad that I had time to study this over and over. I am surprised at how satisfying it feels, but I also realize that I could not have figured it out on my own (i.e. without the video's help). That sort of frustrates me, but it is what it is.
i solved it also and im certainly not overly smart. I did however assume (coz we were not told) that each knew the other had been given a different clue
It feels good at first but I'm conflicted. On one hand, this is presented as a difficult problem. On the other hand, I found it very easy, and I don't know if that means I'm really smart, or I've fallen for the kind of trick used by fake online IQ tests where they ask an easy question and praise you for it.
The real test is actually solving it with another person and a host asking you the questions. Recognizing the logical solution is the beginning, conveying that to someone else is what matters. Source: definitely didn't get into Oxford, but I'm still trying really hard.
@@bonecag3 assuming these people know that the girl focuses on the shape, and the girl knows the guy focuses on the color. Then they just sort them and know what color and shape to elimimate from both color and shape.
That was really interesting. I've never been able to understand that sort of logic puzzle as my mind just goes blank. It was great hearing the explanation as it actually made sense and gives me hope that one day I'll actually be able to work one out.
I like to think of these kinds of puzzles as exercising a different brain ‘muscle’ than we’re used to using. If you think of it like that, it’s easy to understand that ‘mind going blank’ response. If you put me in front of a set of dumbbells, I would stand there like “uhhhhhh….” and probably just leave. I completely get it. I totally believe in you!!!! 💜 Work those logic muscles and show yourself how awesome you are!!
@@sally8708 Thanks Sally. I shall replay your words of encouragement in my head from now on whenever l see a similar puzzle. It's not very objective, l know, but I normally consider myself quite intelligent. Lol. These sorts of puzzles have defeated and frustrated me all my life. I think that's why l enjoyed the explanation so much 'cos for the first time ever l could see some sort of logical process.
@@nikiTricoteuse Eh he's probably not wrong. It stands to reason that a person who is more likely to put themselves in the shoes of the people described in the problem (i.e. someone exercising empathy) is more likely to solve the problem.
@@DiogenesNephew, yep but the defense mechanism will not allow to accept the truth and think reasonably. Some problems in life are solved naturally when got the right attitude
Reminds me of a joke: Three logicians walk into a bar. The barman says "would you all like a drink?", The first logician says "I don't know", the second says "I don't know", and the third says "yes".
@@syupdengixx The first logician wants a drink, because if they didn't they would already know that not all of them wanted a drink. However, they can't be sure that the logicians after them also want a drink. The second logician wants a drink, because if they didn't they would already know that not all of them wanted a drink. However, they can't be sure that the logician next in line also wants a drink. The third logician knows that neither of the two before them has declined a drink, and knows that they themselves also wants a drink, so therefore all three must want a drink.
I'm an accountant, so this was easy for me. MY 'EASY' ANSWER WAS: _"I don't have a freakin CLUE which object the prize is under... but _*_let's talk about the tax implications on the value of whatever the prize is, and I can tell you about the special pricing we're having for our tax prep services."_*
You will be contacted. Our agent will ask for directions on the street and show you a map with a red hexagon. You will reply "Three blocks west, and I recommend the fish chowder." Bring nothing, the training facility will supply all your needs.
Does “...the initial setup is common knowledge” mean that both Shilpa and Colin know that the other was told the value of the opposite characteristic of shape or color from what they themself were told? Or does the setup refer to the shapes and colors of the objects only? This is not explicitly mentioned and is crucial to the ability to solve the problem by Shilpa and Colin, and therefore to our ability to be sure whether the responses by them are given with certainty or not. If the meaning of the quoted phrase does not mean this, the problem as presented is incomplete because it requires us to assume each person knew what characteristic-though not the value-the other was told or even whether their counterpart was told anything. All we know that they know is that they knew what they themself were told privately. There is no mention of anything with which either-much less both-of them could have deduced what, if any, information the other was told, so this would require each of them to make an assumption about what the other did or did not know. Therefore the problem would be unsolvable with certainty by either of them and the information we are given regarding their responses cannot be assumed to be correct and without uncertainty, therefore the problem is unsolvable with certainty by us. So we can make an assumption and solve for the green triangle, or go with only the known information and conclude there is not enough information given to arrive at a solution with certainty. This is the complete solution to this problem as stated. Sloppy statements in a setup for a problem of logic lead to problematic solutions.
Same. Once you get it you realize it's quite simple and it follows the same mechanic three times. It was fun to imagine Shilpa and Colin intensely staring at each other while making deductions lol
didn't seem like a hard question at all. depending on how much time you got. if you have all the time you need, a child can solve it. if you got 5 minutes most adults should be able to solve it.
I came to the correct answer but not the same way, after the first silence I knew it couldn't be the square or yellow but I didn't remove them, then I ask what other colors would give more options my figuring blue triangle and the green circle, being that triangle & blue were already represented and circle & green were already represented then actually removed them from contemplation. This left me with three unique shapes w unique colors two which I were TOO unique to be correct as color(yellow) and shape(square), leaving me with the only option of Green Triangle. Hope this was interesting and not a total waste of your time 🙂.
+Looks at interviewer+: _"Dude, I'm going to law school, we deal with firm tangible evidence that we must explain to people who in some instances can't read or write."_ 🙄
@@michaelmcgregor7374 "asinine", and this problem was broken down in much the same way a computer program would need to be written to solve it, so yes, "logical".
Honestly, it's a gap in how this this puzzle is written. I assumed it meant "No", but like you said, silence could mean they're still thinking or something, and probably throws a lot of people off.
I went into this riddle thinking that Shilpa and Collin didnt know what the other knew. I had too rewatch this vid to read “The initial setup is common knowledge” I missed what that meant at first 🤦♀️
Or that "initial setup" includes the questions each was asked, which is more doubtful when they are 'asked quietly'. Janky - trying to hide the premise.
The initial setup is the 5 colored shapes you see on screen and the fact that one knows color while the other knows shape. Each "silence" is a "no", eliminating two places it could be under for both people. Like, say it were yellow, then one who knows what color would've immediately said yes the first time, and the only single color on the board was yellow. Since they both stayed silent, it was eliminated as a possibility. Same goes for the square being a one of a kind shape.
@@mariolanz4187 ...what does that have to do with anything? The puzzle'w answer is contingent on shape, color, and the same question being asked thrice, not what shape can be hidden under another. The shapes and colors are just the setup, the logic portion is in the question.
Happy to say I did figure it out, and it does definitely take a certain kind of thinking. The kind that actually feels good and like a small revelation when you finally know for sure. Nice puzzle!
@4Runner telling someone what they thought is a lie doesn't make logical sense. It was easy for him, he is asking others if it was easy. That is a subjective statement, there is no possibility for it to be a lie for that singular person because it is based on his/her point of view.
Wow. I just finished watching TED Ed riddles, and this is child's play. I got it before he even finished reading the question. At the end of the second clue, it was obviously under the green triangle. I know, without watching the rest of the video or finding the answer in any other way, because when neither say anything in the first round, you can eliminate the blue square and the yellow circle. Then, when no one says anything, you can eliminate the blue triangle and green circle. That leaves you with just the green triangle.
Can't wait to get my Oxford admission in the mail because I did this easy puzzle. I knew that my Mom doing my homework throughout high-school would make me very smart!
@@MyNameJeff00 that’s not true at all. I paused the video and literally went “okay square is impossible, yellow is impossible” etc. until I got the answer
Three logicians walked into a bar. The bartender asked, "Do y'all want beer?". None of them replied. When the bartender repeated the question, they said in unison, "Yes".
I tell the version where they’re asked “do any of you want beer?” and the first one says “I don’t know”, the second one says “I don’t know”, and then the third one says “no”. Sort of the reverse joke.
1. their initial silence confirms it is not the yellow circle or the blue square as these two objects are unique to the rest and if either of them were told square or yellow they would instantly know it is either or. 2.their silence on the second question confirms that Colin has not been told blue as the triangle is the only blue shape left and Shilpa has not been told circle as their is only one circle left. 3. this leaves the green triangle as the answer :) i didnt actually watch the video this is just my method of solving it so i dont know if it is similar to Presh's soultion.
I learned two things about myself. According to this puzzle I do not immediately think logically and I could not do this in my head but would require pen and paper. Thanks for this. This was fun. You may have set me on a road to understand more.
There are 2 ways to solve this puzzle. One is by deduction, which is probably explained (but i didnt look at that to be honest): None of what is said is relevant, from the very first question "do either of you know.." You have all you need to know before that starts. 1 knows color, 1 knows shape. And both know that each has gotten that information. There is only 1 yellow and there is only 1 square. Both need to be discarded and both people would know that they should be discarded, bc none of them can have been given the correct answer. That would destroy the logic puzzle, which would be illogical. So thats not valid. Then they would both be left with green triangle, blue triangle and green circle. Same thing again. It cant be blue, bc there is only 1 blue. It cant be circle, bc there is only one circle. So its green triangle. Which they both would know. The other is by understanding the puzzle (ill explain) and then quickly going over it visually, excluding. This method is faster, but requires training in understanding the problem given and where the answer must be. So, it requires you to listen carefully to what information is given. at start stage they say 'common knowledge', 5 objects, with 3 variations in color and 3 variations in shape. Both get ONE exclusion criterium. What you should quickly understand from that is that the prize will be under the one that has most common traits, colorwise, and shapewise. That means you can exclude all outlyers! yellow - gone square - gone left is green circle, gren triangle and blue triangle circle - gone blue - gone Green triangle left. Above 6 lines are about 1 second or less of looking at it and discarding. bc you eliminate all outlyers without having to think about it. You can train this sort of logic and understanding very well and will get better and faster at it all the time. Its fun ;]
I do not equate silence to "I don't know." I initially read silence as "I know, but don't want to give the answer away," which cost me a few moments before I managed to solve the puzzle.
Not gonna lie, when it was said that “the initial setup is common knowledge,” that kinda just flew over my head. Had I known that this actually meant that Shilpa was told that Colin knew the color, and Colin was told that Shilpa knew the shape, I probably would’ve been able to deduce the answer better. It wasn’t until I watched through the second step of the solution that I realized they both knew that they had a different piece of information. This would’ve made solving it so much easier.
I also misunderstood that phrase. I thought it was meant to clarify that common knowledge dictates the names of the shapes and colors in the puzzle. I just assumed, they have to know about each other's knowledge for the puzzle to make sense :D
@@BenBike Same. In my head. How can they know where the prize is if the other only knows the color but not the shape while the other person know the shape but not the color. There are 2 pairs if identical colors and 1 unique color. Same with the shape, 2 identical pairs of shapes and 1 unique shape.
This one is fairly intuitive. When they're both silent after the first question. we know it's not yellow or a square. and when they're both silent after the second question, we know that another iteration is required. and since the green triangle is 2 iterations from both the yellow object and the square object then that must be the answer
You should really clarify that they both are told what information the other has. Otherwise, to solve this you need to make the assumption that Shilpa has been informed that Colin knows the shape, and that Colin has been informed that Shilpa knows the colour (you state that they have been privately told, which could easily mean that they haven't been told what the other knows)
@@Headless_Hessian initial setup is the whole setup in this instance, there is no additional setup beyond the initial setup... in fact it was redundant to refer to the setup as the initial setup. "And the setup is common knowledge." is how they should've said it.
I went through the entire process in my head in about 10 seconds, while having tea and a Choco Pie, without even realising the logic of what I was doing. It was just: "OK, it clearly can't be these two". I only had to think about it at the last step, when the two triangles and a circle were left. And even then I only did it after arriving at the obviously correct answer during the initial 10 seconds, just to double-check myself and ask: "But why?". Funny thing is, even after double-checking myself I still couldn't lay out the entire logical chain. That's heuristical thinking/Kahneman's System 1 for you.
@@oddities-whatnot The relevance is that System 1 is highly efficient and works in the background, so that you can be slurping tea and chomping on a Choco Pie while solving these kinds of problems, whereas you can't do that with System 2, because it's highly inefficient. But you'll have to use that system if you're looking for the logical chain answer. Or you could use a computer, which was made to be a much better System 2 than us humans ^_^
The trick to wining at clue is to ask yes or no questions with OR conditions -- does the person have glasses OR is bald? If no, you can eliminate more. If yes, you can eliminate more.
This would have made more sense to me, if instead of remaining silent after the first two rounds they said "not yet". Because I didn't interpret the silence as a no.
@@sean-mo9gf No, they are not, assuming you would give one answer and lock that in. Imagine one of them WOULD'VE known first round (i. e. Colin was told "yellow" or Shilpa was told "square"). Shilpa cannot answer "no" until she knows Colin's answer. Because if Colin's answer is "Yes", then she can deduce that color alone can identify the object, so she knows it's the yellow circle as well. So her definitive answer depends on Colin's answer - if it is "yes", then her answer is "yes" as well. If his answer is "no", then her answer is "no" as well. Colin has the same problem - he doesn't know either what answer to lock in for this round, until he knows if Shilpa says Yes or No. So both their answers are dependent on the other person to answer first. This is a deadlock, and both cannot answer first. This of course only makes sense if you can only say "yes" or "no", and your first answer is also immediately considered your final answer for this round and has to be correct to win the prize.
@@subhajit1128 Colin knows the color. Shilpa can deduce that the color is not yellow from Colin's silence during the first instance of "Do you know," because if Colin WAS told yellow he'd immediately have an answer.
@@subhajit1128 Exactly! The initial conditions are totally confusing. I got it that one only knows the shapes and the other one - only colors. But no, they know both. It's only the shape or the color of "the object" what was told privately. And this "object" is actually "the prize". I don't know, maybe it's me not being native English speaker, but from my point the conditions are formulated ridiculously unclear.
@@valentinap2432 Shilpa is told the shape, Conor is told the color, and they deduce information about what the other person was told based on their respective responses to a third party asking "Do you know where the thing is?"
This problem does not work at all. What is the justification for claiming that silence means the same as "No"? Silence could mean "Yes, but I am not telling." or "No, but I am not telling." or even something else.
@@urfinjuice1437 That's why Both Shilpa and Colin are said to be perfect logicians, and there is no indication that they are antagonistic towards each other. The basis of this problem is what is known as "Common Knowledge", meaning that you gain knowledge from knowing what others with different information know. If both Shilpa and Colins refuse to speak on the grounds of competition (which were not established) then logically they would never say anything since they gain no new information (and it would benefit their competitor) and thus cannot solve the puzzle.
@@williamschwarer2463 Thank you for your answer. It is not logical though. There is not reason to claim that Shilpa and Colin do not answer because they are antagonitic or competitive. They just do not answer. Noone knows the reason. As a result, noone except each one for themselves can know what they know. So "Common Knowledge" does not help. It is just a flaw in the puzzle. It is not properly thought through.
I will say, I had no idea how to approach this at all, so I waited for you to start explaining the answer. But as soon as you started listing out the information given I knew what had happened. I need to remember that sometimes just listing the facts can help you solve a problem.
I'm so amazed at both Shilpa and Colin who, in total silence, managed to use a process of deduction without communicating with one another. I bow to them both.
well think of it like this, they are told that each other has another piece of information. which means they can start ruling out the likelihood that the other person would have been given a clue that was basically a direct answer. So then start by eliminating what is not a direct answer. i.e. yellow and square. this leaves green triangle as the only thing remaining with a pair for both color and shape.
Much hangs on the interpretation of “Silence”. Silence is not that same as “No”, it is a refusal to answer a question and leaves the other parties without any further information. An unambiguous “No” actually gives the information required to solve the puzzle.
@@joshuazatarain7967 I think yes, for the most part. My thought process was sort of "Well, I don't know what it is, so is there anything that it can't be?" and "okay, then what's the significance of it being 3 times?"
This is such a simple problem as long as you understand what it’s asking of you. I misunderstood the setup, thinking that Colin only knew the colors and shilpa only knew the shapes, but they in fact both knew the colors and shapes of all five, but each was told info on what the prize was.
I think you guys misunderstand the problem. The problem isn't simple at all. Colin did only know the correct color and Shilpa only knew the correct shape. It doesn't make sense to say that Colin knew the colors of all objects. I can also tell you that it's extremely hard to do this in your head for anyone because of how our brain works. Our brain can only handle 3-4 short-term facts at once. And, given that there are so many different pieces of information here, it's really hard to figure this problem out instantaneously. You'll need at least several minutes to think it over and over again until the short-term details become strengthened into long-term memory.
@@morninglift1253 no, they both know the shape and color of all of the objects, one just knows the color of the prize while the other knows the shape. It’s impossible to solve otherwise, since neither person would be able to rule anything out
I am 58 and never learned anything like this. But after watching, listening and seeing how this was solved. It made sense and I understand the logic. Thanks for teaching me something new.
I was able to get this puzzle correct on the first try; however, this puzzle makes the assumption that Shilpa was told that they told Colin color, and Colin was told that they told Shilpa shape. If one didn't know what the other was told, this puzzle would not be solvable.
The video says “Shilpa knows the shape” and “Colin knows the color”, then says “the initial setup is common knowledge.” So yes, it would not work if they didn’t know that-but the puzzle states at the outset that they did.
@@celts3760 The wording is vague, but Bart is correct: it’s common knowledge that Shilpa knows the shape and Colin knows the color. The information that was communicated privately is *exactly which* shape Shilpa was told and *exactly which* color Colin was told.
@@notanetdeck5264 "Shilpa and Colin are mathematicians who use perfect logical reasoning, and the initial setup is common knowledge." For a "given" to be valid in perfect logical reasoning, it has has to be explicit and clear; not some vague implicit assumption. No where in the video do they explicitly state that Colin knows that Shilpa was told shape and Shilpa knows that Colin was told color. The initial setup could be nothing more than them knowing the shapes and colors used. That alone is not enough for people who use "perfect logical reasoning" to know that the other was told. If you can, provide a time stamp where it is explicitly stated that one knows that the other was told, but I couldn't find one!
You forgot to mention the fact that Shilpa and Colin can both hear/see each other, that is a HUGE determining factor when they base their next answer off of the others response.
Exactly. I was figuring out it couldn't be the yellow cirlcle or the square, otherwise on the first try either of them would have found the object. But I assumed they were figuring out the problem together by talking.
How else is this supposed to work? Magic? Obviously they have to be able to observe each others reactions, otherwise the "Yes" at the third stage wouldn't make any sense.
Use the principle of uniqueness/certainty : First, 1 Yellow, 1 square. The silence (=uncertain, = non-unique) ruled out the yellow and the square. Next, 1 circle, 1 blue. The silence (= uncertain, = non-unique) ruled out the circle and the blue. So, only the green triangle left.
I graduated Oxford last May. I landed my first post-graduate job interview two weeks later. Things seemed to go well and at the end of the interview I asked, "Do I supply my own green, blue and yellow geometric shapes...or does the company supply those?"
The puzzle itself was pretty simple, but the "Do you know now" control part of it was rather ambiguous. If they were both equally fast at processing the logic, that part would be redundant. If they were not, there would be no way for them to know if the other's silence is an indication of choice or simply the fact that they didn't finish the "stage" yet, which is what the explanation and the question itself assumes. Maybe if the puzzle added something like "They were both given 10 seconds before I ask for an answer... and so on" would make it more clear. I hope they're not seriously using this to filter out applicants.
I mean instead of staying silent they could just have responded "no" which indicates they're finished accessing and have decided that they don't know. The problem is that the first to answer gives the second more information so instead, they remain silent and we're asked to assume if they needed more time they would have said so lol
Good one! With 69.5 Sun circuits... I can easily say, that those who've came out of Oxford know only what they are told. And MYD, had proven it by the use of those two words ''Tell & Told'' to total ad nausea. ''I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run. Education consists mainly in what we have unlearned. In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards.'' ~ Sam Adams
After reading the comments I think it’s appropriate to leave this here. The only way they both would know, after the host asks the third time, is if they both knew the other had known the missing piece of information. All the necessary clues have been given. “Colin/Shape have been privately told” just tells us they were told the adjective of the prize. This does not mean that the other person would not know what kind of info the first person was given
@@TheRealSimeon I know my mental limits. One big limit for me is my working memory, I can't hold enough information in my head. Also I don't have the greatest IQ, it's around average. IQ tests actually are correct, even if people don't want to admit it. You notice the step where you can't process the pattern anymore.
This channel made me smarter genuinely. I've been watching these since 3-4 yrs and now I almost solve all of the questions quickly without watching the solution. Thank You Presh Talwalker.
The blue □ and the yellow ◯ are unique in shape or color. So they are eliminated in the first round. Then the blue △ and the green ◯ become unique and eliminated in the 2nd round. Now, only the green △ is left.
Why though? We cant assume what silence means. Maybe one knew what it was and didnt say. And while we only knew they were silent, we dont know if they used non verbal communication either. Riddle relies on making assumptions.
@@phalcon23 It was said they use perfect logical reasoning. So they're basically like "computer code". They are silent because they both knew the other won't have the solution yet. That's part of the puzzle. And when they knew, they told so, as that's what they have to due to the perfect logical reasoning. Also, non verbal communication is communication too.
@@gargaduk well as someone who writes computer code, that is not perfectly logical. If you ask a yes or no question, you expect to get an answer back, never silence.
@@phalcon23 Not really. The question is "Do either of you know where the prize is". Logically, they don't know what the *other* one knows. So they can't say either yes or no. Therefore, silence.
@@gargaduk well they cant lie, so if one person knows it, they would say yes, and the other one could also then say yes as well. you could also add 3rd opttion "unknonwn, or not sure" logic doesn't have to be binary.
I mean...if he's asking them both at the same time, this becomes ten times easier. "Do you know now?" Shilpa: "Well, what color is it?" Collin: " Green. What shape?" S: "Triangle." Both: "Yeah, we know." Solved The puzzle never specified that the participants couldn't ask each other for further information XD
I didn't pause the video to try to solve it, but after I watched the video I don't think I would've got it anyways. But I need to watch more videosof this guy so I can learn this kind of rational thinking! :)
For those who are stumped ur going off based on assumptions of how the two answers should overlap. U can cross out answers based on the information the two ppl are given, e.g the lone blue square and yellow circle stick out and you’re going to continue to weed out the choices until you get to a point where the choices can match up for both ppl asked the question.
I followed backwards reasoning to attempt to get a solution to this. From the get-go, I knew that if either knew it was a unique shape, that the shape would be first, so that left three options. However, my brain got wrapped around one person knowing what the other doesn't and etc. so instead I had to make an educated guess. Since I knew that uniqueness would be a factor, I choose the least unique, the Green Triangle, since it neither had a unique shape nor a unique color, nor share such with a unique shape or color. This meant that they both had to arrive at the answer at the same time.
I can see why you made that your educated guess, but you could have known 100% from when both of them were unsure still and there was two greens and two triangles. That mean it had to be set green, and had to be a triangle. You shouldn't really need an educated guess but your thinking is amazing too.
@@unifiedmongoose7915 blue is unique color there when there is only 2 triangle and 1 green circle. their answer won't arrive at the same time if it was the unique color or shape when there is only 2 triangle and 1 green circle left
A lot of quiz/puzzle channels just pander for clicks. People not smart enough to realise that solving a mildly difficult puzzle (this was quite easy in my opinion) doesn’t make them a genius, get validation for their delusion of being incredibly smarter than everyone else
Mandatory condition: both have to answer at the same time. Else, Colin knows with the second asking where the prize is. Since Shilpa is silent, he knows it cannot be the green circle. His options left are two triangles and since he knows the color he can say yes. Brenda will never know being stuck with two choices…
Not true, on the second ask, Colin or Shilpa alone could have known the answer independently. Of course after saying the knew the answer, the other would then also know.
I love how they are both asked multiple times, and multiple times they are both silent. Then after the third attempt they both shout yes! having logically reasoned and eliminated the unnecessary information. Now I can finally understand a video I watched many months ago, where two artificial intelligences were having a conversation with each other, and eventually it boiled down to them both saying the words "I" and "You" repeatedly as if they were saying random stuff, but both fully understanding the other.
The fallacy of this contrived scenario is that silence is neither a denial nor a confirmation. It is a non-response. The presumption that silence has a consistent and shared meaning is outside of the bounds of logic. It is more of a canard than a puzzle.
I love these purely logic problems that have nothing to do with math. They were my favourite problems during my logic courses in my undergrad because I more often than not got them correct unlike the higher level math problems haha.
Unfortunately you are *not* getting this right. You ASSUME a lot of things, the video makes the same mistake though. E.g. you assume: - Both persons see/hear each others reactions - it is not said they can do - both persons are not allowed to lie - it is not said they can't do and most important: - "silence" is the same as saying "no" - it is not said it is, and in REAL LIFE it usually isn't! (there are even more, these 3 only to illustrate how sloppy the test actually is) Only with this additional assumptions your solution (and of course the one in the video) is correct.
@@Slazlo-Brovnik not necessarily. Yes, although not said directly you have to go by percentage and psychological theory. EX: chances are people (group) would choose a particular color vs a random color. Also assuming on that concept, if you take a closer look the percentile of green and triangle to come up is alot higher. Which can be seen after second assumption. Although you do make some good points in your logic.
@@TheBlackWOLFofDeath1 Basically you are adding information based on (valid) assumptions - not information which is in the test … thus OUTSIDE Information. That is something you usually do not do in mathematics and logic. But let's assume you are right. Then e.g. the fact remains, that most people would probably just answer the question with "no" instead of being silent it they do not know. So IF we permit outside information such as psychological theory, then the test still does not work. So either we ONLY take the information which is given in the wording of the test - then it does not work, as there are some important things we ASSUME but do not know (e.g. do they need to answer correctly?). OR we accept that assumptions are okay to aid the phrasing of the test, but then an assumption most people would do ist that silence is something different from answering with no ... and the test again does not work. Deadlock. The test just does not work as presented in the Video.
Simplest way to solve it is by simplifying it and seeing how an answer would be reached by either person. For example, for Colin to know it, he would need to be told a shape that is unique to make it certain. Same for Shilpa, who would need a shape that is unique for it to be certain. Using this, each time we can use this rule to remove the tiles that are unique in shape or colour down to the last one.
Interesting puzzle! I only recently studied the rational speech act which is about pragmatic communication, and I noticed almost instantly that the same reasoning applies here.
got it, but it was explained pretty ambiguously. i made the assumption that they knew the other was told the shape/color (otherwise it would have been impossible). but in the video you said they're told privately - should probably make clear that though they don't know *what* shape/color the other is told, they know *that* the other is told what shape/color it is.
It says the initial setup is common knowledge. So both know that they were told the shape and color privately. I missed that part of the video and waited for the shapes to move around or something.
@@olebergst.5828 Indeed, not only reading but perhaps hearing as well. I chose the square one because it hides a present the best and it's the largest one out of all the shapes. I didn't understand the problem either until he showed it in a list. I'm doomed am i? 😬
After the third time they remembered that they are within shouting distance of each other and that they have all the answers or the host would not ask that question. Cooperation is a very powerful tool!
Great video! I love solving logic puzzles and this video definitely challenged me. The variety of puzzles kept it interesting and I appreciated the clear explanations of the solutions. Can't wait to try these out with my friends!
My thought process: After the Host asks the first time and neither know where it is the blue square (because then Shilpa would have know since it's the only square) and yellow circle (because then Colin would have known since it's the only yellow shape) can be eliminated. After the Host asks the second time and neither know the green circle (because of Shilpa, same reasoning) and blue triangle (Colin, same reasoning) can be eliminated. Ergo the answer must be the green triangle. Edit: Yey, I was right :D :)
Yeah, I figured it out within a few seconds of thinking about each stage. That's not always the case though, especially in the puzzles that do a good job of putting the forest in front of the trees and throwing you off the scent. Those are the ones that make me slap my head when I miss them.
