The best thing about this is that, at this point, you are trying to understand how is it that a machine is so convinced that it is really a human being, and some time later it is you the one that realizes that you are also a machine that believed being a human being.
@@felixaderBruh, how is it cheap? The game forces you to make those choices because thats the point of the fucking game. To question what you consider human or not, and whether or not you have the right to "shut down" or kill them especially when they themselves have no say in it regardless of how delusional they are
He died when he is working on some heat shield and then the copy of him activated inside a robot. That is what the female robot said when she killed herself : (
His last memory was of himself fixing a heat shield. He actually died because a UH was waiting in the vents and killed him, his body is just around the corner from the robot version of Carl, Amy ran into the storage room with the UH chasing her and she electrocuted it with the cut cable left lying next to the disabled UH.
He used one of those pilot seats to do the work to the heat shield. The WAU was also using the pilot seats (same as Catherine) to create these duplicates called "Mockingbirds." Carl still continued on after his work was done, to be killed later.
Wait, you're not supposed to leave him in perpetual agony? I played that level so wrong, I thought I have to either leave the power line dead or put him through hell to progress further.
@@BarelySentientBraincell There are two levers. The second one is in engine room. You go there by the corridor where Carl's body is and you go left. It also kills him but humanely (probably didn't feel any pain and got instantly turned off). But beware because using that lever opens the door below and allows Conscruct (the first enemy) to come there
@@BarelySentientBraincell The other way is to drain the power from the area, which drains Carl's Mockingbird of power, effectively shutting it down painlessly.
I really love this game, it brings up the difficult topic that you cannot avoid death and transfer your mind to a machine and create only a copy of your mind
Why not? Human consciousness is nothing but information stored in an organic computing device. There is the only problem with the continuity and that is easily fixable by erasing original information during the transfer. Control+x instead control+v, so to speak. The cruelty of SOMA lies in the fact that the human mind was never made to tackle such a concept and in the player character's case you don't have the luxury of "one-way transfer", forever stuck in your previous bodies as a copy.
@@jhr891no budy, it doesn’t work like that. If you copy something, deleting the original wont change anything, you are still copying mind, the only way i think transfer will work, is by slow merging with robotic components. Like install several ssd into your brain and begin remembering everything on them. This way you wont feel like being copied, because the copies are connected together, they are the same person, just with backup memory). just install some robotic eyes and stuff and remove the organic storage and then you should be transferred for real
@@vsochi234hat if we replace parts of the brain with artificial ones? Then you will probably lose your memory, but then this procedure must be performed for a large amount of time so that the old information is replaced
@@vsochi234 Didn't say you would like it. It would probably drive the person mad, but if the process was 100% without loss of data and new storage would be capable simulate human mind in its full capacity, it would be you and nothing else, even if person in question could disagree. Your status as the copy would be strictly a formality, specialy if original would be no more. What you suggesting is neither transfer nor unique. Human body goes through this process multiple times during its life, when exchanging it's molecules. I wouldn't call it transfer, just exchanging parts. Not to mention it sounds like tedious process switching for mechanical parts. When more efficient way would just to not to age through genetic engineering and keep shedding your molecules for eternity.
its also one of the most frustrating ways to look at the game. because i like many other people take that dilemma of is that robot sentient? is it alive? and just answer no its not. That tends to bring out the worst elements of the fandom when you tell them you think all the hemming and hawwing over the question of sentience and being alive comes down to a big old nope its just code. especially this scene right here and many others in the game cemented that feeling very early on. our dear friend Carl on the conveyer belt isn't alive its a machine playing an emulation of a human brain. it doesnt feel pain it cant its a robot. it cant see its actual body the claws and hands. hell its even talking about legs. Carls not screaming in pain carl is dead. a scan of his brain a photo of carl is recieving input that the brain then says oh thats painful but if you took away the machines eyesight and its ability to receive this imput you could cut off its arm and it would never know. hell you could probably then remove the blindfold or whatever and it would probably be unable to recognise the limb its missing. it fails the mirror test.
His dialogue changes after everytime you flip the switch again. After a few times he just sits there making sobbing noises and doesn't respond to Simon speaking to him. Not sure what happens if you do it again.
3:25 that's so fucking hilarious and sad at the same time Props to the voice actors Now that I think about it all of their games have amazing voice acting
what scares me, is the more i played, the more you find out about the humans final days its not even the monsters that scare me, but the fact that a lot of these monsters were born from people who couldn't understand they were machine now and no longer human like i spent most of the fucking game upset i couldn't help half of them
It's hard to find quality playthroughs of this game. This game is an experience to be savored, it rewards you for taking it slow and for exploring the environments, but unfortunately lots of people rush through it.
So sad how most people saw videos of this game before every playing it. I had no idea what the game was like before I got sucked in to the best science-fiction story ever told.
the pilot seat was basically how he controlled the UH, and it order to use the UH, he basically uses the pilot seat that ''wires'' his brain to the UH, while getting his brain scanned, so his brain scan was supposedly collected by the WAU (chun talked about this later in the game how WAU stole brain scans), and once he died, his brain scan was transferred to the knocked down UH. and he thinks hes human cause carl's brain is tricking him into thinking he looks human, possibly due to the fact that he is used to seeing himself as a human, and waking up to being a hunk of metal would've created such high stress levels that he could either die or go insane from it, but some notion of him not being human could've removed the lies his brain was telling him, and hed see himself as a robot, and not as human. this kind of thing happened right after simon entered comm center and the roof collapsed in on him as he was wondering how he was still breathing and talking normally underwater, then his vision changed from his casual clothing to looking like a diving suit with WAU growths on it.
I know I'm probably late, but I think you had to either drain power from his room or the engine room. Draining from the engine room opens the door where the construct enemy is. Draining power from robot carl's room leaves him there, screaming in pain
@@lewisjones284 I wish I knew that when I played SOMA for the first time, I left him there to sit in perpetual agony without realizing that wasn't the only option ^^;
yeah exactly, as Andres said, why would they know that? the existence of the mockingbirds was even a mystery for the Pathos II staff and those who knew them didn't quite understood them as we do later on the game, hell, not even Catherine is well aware of it, she actually sees most of them as simplistic minds when in reality, they're on huge denial, ergo, they can't fully express coherent ideas due their brains trying to ignore the fact that they're not human anymore and also, it's also explored later on the game that they still feel as human and see themselves as human ina weird messed up way so they don't die or go crazy due the intense amounts of stress
Upsilon was full of "strange voices and screams from corrupted minds stuck in bodies they couldn’t cope with." Imagine the "psychological agony of constantly hearing people you knew in pain. You just had to keep telling yourself it wasn’t real. It wasn’t them. It’s just robots..." Quotes are from Soma Case Files "Beast like any other"
@@lowiq224 There is a switch in the room , also there is the generator room down the corridor, if we activate it , that will kill him too I think. Or maybe we need to do both to kill him, but in this game pretty much every single person in Pathos 2 that can talk, can be killed.
I can imagine Carl’s reaction if there was an option to grab a mirror or something like that. If there was a mirror on hand with me and I had a conversation just like this, I would definitely put a mirror in front of him to show him what he truly was.
What I always found to be a major plot hole is if the WAU is an AI, why couldn't it cyberneticize humans in a way to allow for them to be able to tolerate the surface conditions considering it had access to biological data.
The problem is that it doesn’t think like humans. It possesses a very alien mind to begin with, and by the time any of its experiments were anywhere close to something we’d find acceptable (Simon), it has long since killed the humans to stop them from trying to shut it down. It lacks an understanding of “quality of life” its focus is on preserving human life, not realizing that almost all humans would be driven insane by its methods or at least wish to die instead.
4 years later and I would say that WAU is essentially a self-learning AI. It was trying to "preserve humanity" by doing seemingly random acts and seeing how that turned out. Most of those attempts were a horrible mess, but they you have Simon. He walks, he looks humanoid, he is sane and intelligent. WAU was getting better at it. Given enough time, resources, and material, WAU could likely end up creating a cybernetic humanoid consistently. That should've been the goal of the scientists once the comet was noticed. But likely everyone still thought about trying to avoid the disaster rather than looking for what can be done to preserve anything about humanity. Maybe they could equip PATHOS II to survive and operate after the disaster, exploring cybernetics with AI help, but it's still very far-fetched. Chances were very slim
@@blacksapphire3168 WAU didn't start copying human minds until sometime after the comet hit and they didn't consider copying everyone into a simulation until they saw the WAU copy people into machines.
Just came here to say that I *HATE* how unclear they made how you're supposed to progress here. I love a challenge, but leaving this poor guy screaming in pain because I thought it was the *only* way to continue really messed me up.
You chose to flip that switch instead of exploring the whole area and seeing if there was another way to progress. You only have yourself to blame for it. Besides, if it's any consolation, that wasn't the real Carl Semken anyways. It was a copy of his brain that got scanned by the WAU when he was operating the UH. When Carl was killed(you can find his body not far from where his mockingbird is), the scan of his brain was uploaded to a mockingbird by the WAU. That's why he only remembered working with the UH. That was all the WAU had to put into the machine.
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 1. Don't be a dick about it. First playthroughs usually have folks be cautious or relying on what they can see. If they can not fully tell what is and is not a option, they will go with the least resistance. 2nd. It by all means is Carl, this was the point the game was making.
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639How would you feel if you were a brainscan copy thinking and feeling inside of a robot? Would you not feel bad about somebody ending your existence?
People in these comments are saying that the protagonist belives he is human just the same, even though he is in a robot body. But thats not really comparable since clark here 'somehow' sees his whole body. So you cant relly make an apples to apples comparison since clark is clearly on a deeper level of delusion. Also simon is in a much more advanced and human looking body, making it easy to forgive him believing he is in a human body.
No. One of the biggest plot points in SOMA is that the WAU is uploading brain scans into robots. These robots believe that they are human, and see their bodies as human. Simon himself starts out the game believing he is human until he finds out that he's just a reanimated corpse in a diving suit.
@@Mothbean which is a big flaw of the game, how can a memory copy been put into a robot that complete not match to human body yet still think they are human? Simon is in a reanimated corpse, so the illusion could work, but carl? he doesn't even have fingers
Anthony J I'd assume that from his point of view he's lying face-down with his left arm reaching out, and having his legs and other arm seriously injured (considering his robot body doesn't have them)
@@itsuk1_1 They can't comprehend, or refuse to do so. It's a perfect brain scan, so much so that they still believe they're human, although the question the game posits is what really makes up a person. If it's just your brain, then Carl's current state is just as human as anyone else.
Yes, you can unlock another room from the computer, there is another lever in this one, use it just like the one next to Carl, it wont hurt him but it will release the robot you just escaped from in the room, avoid it and you’ll get to progress without hurting Carl. I did it, it was scary but great !
Because you can't eat a cake and have it too. The uploaded version is not you, it's the copy that can exist alongside you. The only way to really "transfer" your mind is a brain transplant, assuming it would ever be possible.
One of the _central_ dilemmas of the game is that you can't upload your own consciousness, only copy it into a separate entity. Did you just not actually play the game?
@@thosemerc3113 Id rather a copy of me continue to live rather than nothing. Plus if it's a PERFECT copy, or even just a GOOD copy, then it IS me, I am nothing more than a brain in a meat suit, I could also be a brain in a metal suit.
@@Squeaky245 It's better a copy of me live than nothing at all. It's not that hard of a dilemma. Hell, i'd clone myself a billion times and re-populate the earth with just clones of me in robot bodies. Why not? How is that worse than letting humanity go extinct entirely? What's so bad about a copy?
Not only does this point in the game make you question your humanity (or whats left of it really, and if it wasn't obvious enough) but it also the fact that he mentions "The fuck is that shit on you? Did you go through a sewage unit recently or something?" Spoiler below; It also makes me realize that near the end, when we find the last living human, and if we choose to let her die or live, it doesn't truely matter depending on your choices, because if you kill her and then not deactivate the WOU or whatever its acronym is. You then essentially doom her to another death or life worse than death, depending. As the machine will do everything to bring her back to life, even if it means putting all manner of stuff in her or making her unable to move. While these iterations are broken or altogether useless or even hostile sometimes. There is that chance, however, when you kill her and leave the machine AI alive that she eventually is brought back and tries to help you and you her through what is essentially a life of all out hell and basically immortality.
It didn't seem like the wau could regenerate dead people's consciousness (there are lots of corpses around and the files mention that the monsters were living when they got altered by the wau). But all of the 'simon' copies required a corpse to work, so more likely the wau would have used her body + some electronics/ structure gel to host another person's consciousness.
i don't like any character except catherine. Like wtf is wrong with carl? and Simon? all those who gets their mind copy into the machine, they are so emotional, like that submarine guy. They just scream, and shouting. Is this what a high level researcher of the most expensive under ocean base performs?you can smell how weak of their personality is through the screen. Honestly if i found out i become the undead machine i'd celebrate a year.
You like Catherine, no? You know what's weird abut her, too? Everything suggest that she was calm and very quiet person, pretty much your typical introvert, when she was human - then why she seems so enthusiastic and talkative all of a sudden? I think that consciousness transfer creates a good copy, but most of the time when not properly integrated and put into limiting cortexes and machine bodies, they are just mere shadows of their former selves, crooked in one way or another.
But it's talked about when on the zepline that it's likely that if Simon kept thinking too hard about the fact he's a robot he would go insane. Simon is emotional because he lost everything. Carl is mad because he's confused and Simon isn't any help. Cath I feel is the most likable but also the most hypocritical. She gets Simon to kill a robot and just shrugs it off because it's just a robot even though that's all she and Simon are.
@@hypertension2963 He will go insane is because he took the "he is a robot" thing too serious and too hard. Cath is just :"okay i'm a robot now, what's wrong with that?". I agree that Simon doesn't give any help to Carl to realize what's going on, and when video game character controlled by you are being limited their action like that it makes me angry. And i don't think Cath is anywhere near hypocritic, those robots went total crazy, even they are living human that are going crazy, if there are only two of the remain robots there, i don't mind they killed a human that went insane and get the parts to make their job done.
