Sonic Mania Retrospective 

hey mark brown, thas me

28:50, oh wow, I always play Sonic alone, and I don't think I'd seen the new transition as Tails by himself yet, so I had no idea about that homage to the OVA!

Listening to his boundless optimism at the end while watching Stealth's kickstarter faceplant and his sad video about how little he ended up getting paid for mania, 2 years out with no formal announcement for a Mania follow-up... once again SEGA is throwing away a good thing for seemingly no reason.

I remember playing this the day it came out, and thinking, "Oh man, this game's pretty good!" And then I got to the Mean Bean Machine/Puyo Puyo boss and I laughed to myself and thought "Screw that, this is the BEST GAME EVER!"

"SEGA would be insane NOT to make a sequel" And that's why it won't happen.

Yess, your Sonic retrospectives introduced me to your channel, so have been looking forwards to the mania retrospective for some time now!

35:49 "Forces destroyed a lot of the goodwill I had built up over the years." You still had goodwill for Sonic after Lost World and Boom?

my brain functions much more in the mario style, but for those that prefer the sonic format, i'm happy that mania exists.

"characters with unique abilities like shadow" God, could you imagine Shadow in the classic style? He would somehow look more and less edgy, like he's trying even harder. It'd be so great.

This is a wonderful retrospective. I wish I had more to say on it, but I don't. Great job KingK.

I loved the mean bean machine part. It's madness to demand games be tailored to the whims of speedrunners

>SEGA >making the right decision pick one and only one

Great analysis; one of Mania's greatest strengths has been trimming the fat with slow paced waiting sections and making the sense of flow organic. In regards to forward thinking design this game is rife with, I think the additions via the Plus DLC demonstrated two major things. First that Sonic games can still mix it up in terms of character abilities without changing the gameplay style or seeming out of place. Sonic Advance did some interesting stuff with Amy and Cream, but the former felt awkward at points and latter broke the game's difficulty a lot. Ray and Mighty not only feel completely natural in 2D Sonic levels, they're also balanced in design. Mighty can't chain speed like Sonic or explore like the others, but he's ideal against enemies and hazards. Ray requires precise use and is nerfed underwater, yet is to the air what Sonic is on land. Secondly, the Encore Mode has introduced a great layer of strategy to the series. While a lot of the player thinking in Sonic titles before have involved devising methods to reach paths or ideas on how to beat bosses, the characters as lives system now creates an inventive to really consider how you go about a stage. Do you use Ray to keep your pace in the level, or Knuckles as a meat shield in case tough sections might catch you by surprise? For a series that's unfairly lambasted as being speeding left to right through levels, its a concept that rewards decision making and smart selection from the player's proverbial toolbox.

I didn't think encore mode was supposed to be set after Forces. My immediate assumption when I played the DLC was that it was supposed to be an alternate story about what happened to Sonic after the Super Sonic fight, where Mania Adventures was the actual post Forces story. I've never looked for any statement made by the creative team, but that was just my interpretation. Also, I'm so glad you talked about this game. This was a fantastic video

I love listening to your videos while I grade papers. Intelligent. Soothing. Plus I don't really have time to game with 3 young kids. While I dont always have well deserved fun I appreciate the thought and effort put forth in your content. Cheers.

"Sega would be crazy not to make a sequel." Sadly I read an article this week that sounds like Sega pretty much fired the studio who created Sonica Mania over creative differences over Sonic Mania 2.

While I love Sonic, grew up with Sonic, enjoyed and replayed the 2D games and mildly enjoyed the Adventure games - I fear Sonic, unlike Mario has trouble when breaking away from its roots. If all we want from Sonic is a 2D platformer, then Mania certainly is great. Just when Sonic moves to things like RPG's, Party Games and Fighters is when it falls flat. I hope they can see about trying the RPG's again - a Paper Mario esque Sonic game would be cool, but I probably shouldn't hold my breathe lol. Either way, great review as always - analyzing the game and not only highlighting its highs but criticizing its lows. Keep up the good work King!

Im really glad they added Mighty. He was my favourite member of Chaotix back in the day and just got forgotten about.

Well before I watch the video since I somehow managed to catch this just as it came out, I just wanted to say that you are a big inspiration to me as not just a youtuber but also as a gamer and writer in general, your retrospectives are something that I always genuinely look forward to and I always feel like I've come to understand the game you're talking about on a much deeper level and makes me stop and ponder upon other games I enjoy or don't enjoy and why that is. Anyway, thank you for being an awesome writer and making so many awesome and well-thought videos. Don't stop anytime soon man!

Flying Battery Zone in Sonic Mania is a massive improvement over its Sonic 3 & Knuckles counterpart.

Great analysis and yes Titanic Monarch is the best final level in Sonic history imo, I'll take this to my grave until a final level surpasses its quality. Sonic Mania managed to have me question if it was my favorite surpassing even 3&K, but as much as I can say that maybe objectively Mania could be the best out of the classics, my nostalgia and 3&K's originality is too strong for me not to consider it my fav.

I was wondering why this is now my favorite "Classic" Sonic game. It's VERY consistent. Sonic 1-3 as much as I like them have obnoxious flaws that prevent me from goign back to them as much as I'd like.

I blame the weird story in the shoehorned Forces tie in

I do agree with a fair bit of your points, especially how there are too many classic stages and, at times, the phantom ruby seems like a copout. The Heavy Gunner boss battle is too long and the Sky Chase reference didn't need to be there. I also wish there were 14 special stages and a return of the hyper forms. Hyper forms were my favorite from the classic era. The only nitpick I have of your retrospective is that Mighty isn't a Sonic recolor. A lot of people think this but it is incorrect. Mighty was actually one of the original designs for Sonic. The designs were an armadillo, a rabbit (which later became Cream), a dog, a hedgehog (which was chosen as the final design), and also at the time for mascots the design that finally became Eggman was in there as well. The armadillo later became Mighty for the Japanese only arcade game Sega Sonic the Hedgehog alongside Ray the flying squirrel, and then Mighty was also used in the 32X title Knuckles Chaotix. That was the last instance of Mighty in a game until Mania. Ray had not been seen in a game since Sega Sonic. Anyway, great video as always and I have really enjoyed your Classic Sonic Retrospectives. Have a good day.

I'm sad to see that you aren't more popular than you currently are, the efforts that you put in your videos is so painfully obvious that it makes me sad. You deserve better.

As a hobbiest game maker and life fan of Sonic, videos like this are indispensable! Thanks heaps for putting the time to make such a well structured video with such good actual analysis. So many reviews as so superficial. Fingers crossed Sega pull all their fingers out and let the creative team make that sequel you talked about. It’s a mouth watering proposition! Thanks again!

The Hard-Boiled Heavies actually somewhat disobey Eggman as early as Green Hill Zone. During the level transition at the end, you can see Eggman arguing with them while they act up. Yes, it could use a bit more emphasis across the game, but it _is_ shown that they don't really obey him well from the moment they are turned into what they are by the Phantom Ruby. So while it's not very fleshed out, it _is_ there.

Man I really appreciated the break down you did as to WHY sonic games work. I personally have never had an easy time getting in to them because I thought it lacked rhythm. I might give it another shot now that you've explained how it's about adapting to huge maps and exploring.

I’m so happy that you pronounce Studiopolis and Hydrocity properly

Can't wait for the biggest criticism of this video to be the way you pronounced Hydro City Zone. Good stuff though, I agreed with basically everything you said? Just hoping we get a truly original sequel that isn't rushed out the door like Mania, and even Mania Plus were.

Just wanted to give a shout out for your on point retrospective. As someone who grew up with original Sega Genesis Sonic games, I love what Sonic Mania was able to accomplish with regards to mixing nostalgia with progressive ideas.

Man King K, I love how objective your videos, you're real fair about it. Great video as always

I hope that if you someday get to the Sonic Adventure games that you really go all out with the praise of the soundtrack for SA2. It is CRIMINALLY underappreciated for having, what I believe, to be one of the best overall soundtracks I've ever heard in a game. Of all the songs, all but two are things I can just listen to at any time and enjoy them.

This is by far the best sonic game Also, some of the complaints you have about this game are really knit picky Like come on are you seriously complaining about a classic sonic games storyline? In my humble opinion, this is the closest sonic has ever been to being nearly perfect

Yo that ray speed running portion was so fucking nasty the movement was insane

I think your videos and video game analysis are some of the best on RU-vid! Keep it up man!

You made an interesting comparison, to the other classics. It was honestly refreshing, good job on the video!

It's nice to see someone actually recognize what Sonic games are trying accomplish instead of just saying "this game has cheap hits and the level design is bad."

Your sonic videos is why I subscribed thank you I’ve been watch one every morning over breakfast :)

*Hears Bill Nye the Science guy cussing* Well......my childhood just died again.

While I do like how classic Sonic's stories are very simple in his games, I do kind of wish everything flowed from level to level like in S3&K. The phantom ruby just seemed like such a lazy, dues ex machina plot device. Like instead of having a new gem that can do basically everything, why not have Robotnik create some sort of machine? Just anything other than, "this gem allows me to teleport, travel through time, create amalgamations, and it's a source of great power." Also, I feel as though if Forces never actually happened, then the good ending for the Mania could have been an interesting little teaser to say that classic Sonic's games aren't over. Almost like a message from the devs saying that there's likely to be a sequel but oh well. Great video though. The Boost vs. Adventure video is what got me into this channel and I'm really liking this content so keep it up!

A few more characters, with fleshed out abilities, would be nice; but can we please leave Shadow the Edgehog firmly in the modern games? If we had to put a modern character in the classic series, I would so much rather have Blaze, as I think she has far more potential for unique gameplay than the literal Sonic clone.

I love Sky Chase, I think it's one of the best levels of Classic Sonic, but well, I'm someone who has Marble Zone as his favorite, so... yeah XD

Great job ! This is my favourite sonic game and whenever I pick it up it takes a while to be put down again.

22:06 If you have super sonic, you just hold right. That's it.

My gosh! Ray will always be the best character in Sonic mania.

Mirage saloon act 1 was a great reference to skychase. It has its own awesome music, and I love it. How can you like the appearance of the death egg robot? In it's debut, it was a climactic final boss with great music that was an incredible challenge to beat, because you had to hit it like 16 times and you didn't have any rings. Now it's been reduced to a level one boss, on part with the god damn wrecking ball, and it's super easy to beat now.

i'm gonna praise one aspect of the final boss that was thankfully implemented in the plus update via code that makes hyper sonic obsolete: in egg reverie, you can take off and fly freely as super sonic. this was later added as a code in mania plus. you effectively can snap the difficulty over the knee with the ability to fly freely in your super forms. and for ten rings you can rocket to ludicrous speeds. the only limiter being, of course, ring count. with this ability, no virtually no path is blocked to you. with hyper sonic you still needed to platform. it feels like this code was an apology from the devs for not being able to add in the hyper forms. so they instead added the option to make the base super forms far more broken than hyper forms could ever be.

The running section is there to make the boss doable if you mess up a couple times

Looking at that ending cutscenes again, I just saw that little moment where the Chaos Emeralds surround the Phantom Ruby. Looking at that, I think that originally, the PR was planned to be the Master Emerald.

I agree. Mario is a lot of fun on the first play though, but it's better to give the game a year long break before replaying. Sonic makes me want to play it again as soon as I have finished the game. -Even if this leads to awkward game mechanics like the barrel from Sonic 3.- Hydro city is not pronounced like that.

I tend to find the best game design comes from making something that's easy to clear and then tweaking it and mixing in other elements to make it difficult. Take something like Halo. No one enemy is hard to beat. It's when you start putting them in certain combinations and spreading them into certain positions that the player has to start thinking about what they need to do. Another good example is like Shovel Knight. The game on a purely combat level is never super complicated. But adding in enemies or moving platforms forces the player to pay closer attention or it could very easily go very poorly for them.

*This is the part of the video where I thank people who GIVE ME MONEY.*

As how much i love Sonic CD, i agree with you. Awesome video!

Not anything huge, but a good level transition from Green Hill to Chemecal plant could have been as followed: After completing act two, whoever you chose runs to the shore of the siland or just a more open bit of greenhill, with chemical plant off in the distance of the ocean, with eggman flying away to it (i mean chemical plant zone is something he built, so makes sense why he's go there for whatever reason), then you hop into the Tornado and Tails/sonic Flies you there- tails if you have sonic, or sonic if you have any of the other characters. Not too sure with the other levels though

Yeah was thinking Ray would be the equivalent of Milla from Freedom Planet, tricky to play at first but could just break levels if used properly

Okay why do people complain about a classic sonic being in modern sonic games and then say they want Shadow, a MODERN exclusive character in sonic mania?

Am I the only one who thinks Ray’s flying animation looks like flying Cape Mario’s Animation (from Mario world) a little.

SEGA of Japan: "What should we do? That little side project that was made to promote Sonic Forces was more successful than any other Sonic game we've made!" "Should we hire the Mania team to make another game?" "And let America show us up? Don't be ridiculous." "Let's ditch Modern Sonic and just center all of our games around Classic Sonic. Clearly, that's the reason Mania did so well, because it had Classic Sonic!" "Yes, of course! Oh, and let's bring back Mighty and Ray too. They were popular in Plus." "You want someone other than Sonic to be playable?" "Pfft! No! I just want them to stand there and cheer on Sonic in the background, like everyone else."

It's a great game, but I felt some levels relied way too heavy on its unique gimmicks, which I didn't feel were always integrated too well with the overall level. The bosses, while more intricate and difficult than almost anything from the original games, felt.. off somehow. Other than that, it's a really solid game and a fantastic homage to the classics.

Only people who played Sonic and Knuckles would know why he is jumping at 27:03 when there is no need to 😁

The idea that Mario levels don't have layers that grow deeper with multiplayer play-through or lack the ability for player expressions is so, surface level, it encourages player expression not through "i want a different direction this time" but by layering elements that play off one another and can be interacted with in a lot of ways, a single course in Mario maybe have fewer elements then a Sonic one, but each is far more interactive: let's look at 2-3 from Super Mario Brothers 3. I choose SMB3 because it's both well regard by almost everyone and in terms of its level design. It's also not one of the Mario games often described as "exploratory" and this level in particular is pretty straightforward, housing only one secret area. Here's the level: www.nesmaps.com/maps/SuperMarioBrothers3/SuperMarioBros3Map2-3.html The first section is patrolled by fire snakes and Koopa Troopas and three pits separating each the pyramids. The easiest way to handle this section is to run right past it, this section that makes up a good half of the level is almost all about messing about. At the top of each of pyramid are two "?" blocks, but they blocked on the bottom by brick blocks. This means a player that enters the course powered up is rewarded with easy prizes. But the first two set of blocks are arranged to be able to broken with a Koopa Troopa Shells easily. The first and last one-way block pyramids give power up so with good play even if you start the course as regular Mario you can power all the way up to Raccoon Mario. In between the two is a Starman, which could easily tempt a player to grab it and run right past the second Super leaf block losing out on the chance to power up. I could keep going on about this one section, but lets move on. The Second section is patrolled by Brick Goombas and some more Koopa Troopas. Once more the easiest way to handle this section is to run right through it, up the first brick block pyramid, across the wooden blocks and down the second brick block pyramid, and again you'd be missing out. The simple fact that they're a bunch of Brick blocks here means a player can just mess around destroying them with a raccoon tail or using the Koopa Troopas here, possible discovering the hidden 1-Up well doing so. Of course the real prize is getting to the hidden platforms in the sky. You can reach them form flying, or by uncovering invisible blocks. If flying your more likely to uncover the higher, more hidden of the platforms which holds a P-switch turns all the brick blocks into coins easily giving you access to the 1-up and tons of coins. Finally we have the half of a Brick block pyramid blocking a pipe to the exit area. Once more we have a few Koopa Troopas patrolling the area, and this time making use of their shells is mandatory. Well most of this course engaging with way enemies, level element and Mario's actions can all play off one another has been optional now you HAVE to engage with how shells brick blocks and coin blocks interact. It's sort of mandatory playing about to end the course, no real challenge, just a brief bit of watching the game do some pinball with its elements. You do get one final option before the leave though, a 10-coin block rests in the area the Koopa shell will end up bouncing back and forth, giving the option to test your reaction skills to get closer to another life. And that means this whole level is both about stright ahead obstacle course AND all about exploring and getting treasure from pyramids! Oh boy,I, didn't really cover everything you could say about that course, an early not super special or hard one that you can race through in under 30 seconds. All hiding a mini playground of platforming. Lord the level design in SMB3 is great.

Sonic 2’s difficulty is fine, CD’s levels don’t lack substance, and 3’s aren’t linear.

I have to say, your sarcastic voice sounds very similar to your regular voice. I like it though honestly, it's pretty cool.

"You're allowed to pick from chameleon different paths in chameleon different ways"

A review of one modern game is not a "retrospective." It's just a review.

KingK upload :eyes:

I think I didn't mind Heavy Gunner just because of how visually stimulating it was, the auto scroller with the tornado 1 didn't bother me since it was so short, and I think the Sonic Mania adventures are meant to be a retelling of the encore mode separate from the gameplay

Fuck I have never been interested in sonic, and especially classic sonic. But seeing that Ray speedrun, i think i get it now

This is my first Sonic game and I found this game really hard sometimes, especially the bosses and the crushing parts. That boss in Metallic Madness was a nightmare.I'm currently stuck on Titanic Monarch, if i get a Gme Over, I have to do everything all over again which can take up to 20 minutes. I just find it tedious and I haven't tried it in days. There is a crushing part halfway through the level which always gets me :(

Playing this right now!

I like the sky chase

Thanks KingK, very cool.

Hot Take: Sonic Mania Adventures is canon, Encore mode...is NOT.

No Heart Attack 💔 A Happy Heart

I wished there was Ice Cap Zone. I just don't know if possible with original Mega Drive song though. Or well... At least a redemption of Marble Garden Zone.

In addition to the Mean Bean Machine boss, Mirage Saloon Act 1 is my biggest complaint. Sky Chase always felt like filler. It was a cool gimmick the first time I played it but after that, it was just a break of pace between Metropolis and Wing Fortress. Wish it was possible to just replace Act 1 with the Encore version. Apparantly someone has designed a mod to do it but they don't want to release it.

I believe the Bonus stages were also partially inspired by _Sonic R_

I didn't realize Sonic games had context. You say Mania's is worse, but honestly, the first 3 games just don't have it enough to matter to a player. :P Mania fixes that.

10/10 best evar

Forces was better than colors but worse than generations so yeah it's definitely not an amazing game but it is showing that Sega is still improving even if it is in small ways I loved the writing for sonic in forces and how they're atleast trying to be darker instead of the stupid plot and one liners in colors and lost world the future looks even brighter for classic sonic and it seems like somebody finally changed the bad batteries in modern Sonics future because It's finally not going dark every couple seconds. Anyways great review and I'm excited for the future of Sonic I can rest assured that modern and classic sonic both have bright futures.

Haven’t been able to play this masterpiece yet.

This is a great remaining of the classic sonic games but man aren't all these stages just confusing its just not a good sense of what direction you're suppose to go in

KingK are you going to make a series of Retrospectives for the Pokemon series ?

Sonic’s biggest problem is the stupidity of Sega.

KingK you rule and all but in the case of Hyper Sonic Iisuka said they won't bring it back because of the fact that it makes Sonic look more and more like Dragon Ball. I know fans don't care if it is or not because Hyper Sonic is cool but you should know it will probably won't return.

Noooo I love the mean bean machine boss

Hey i like the heavy gunner boss fight!

KingK love your videos as always! Will you continue the Kingdom Hearts Series?

I think my main issue with Sonic games is that the visual design is so messy. It's oftentimes impossible for me to, at a glance, separate the middleground - platforms you can stand on - from the foreground and background; everything just blends together into a dizzying vortex of colors. This creates a frustrating trial and error approach, which has always been hard for me to move past. It's chaotic and feels very displeasing to the eye, and it honestly makes me tired to look at let alone play. That said, the game *looks* fun to play when people are speed-running it. :/

31:59 "The tracks you once loved are remastered beautifully by Tee Lopes." Sorry, but as someone who's into music production, I can't help but point out how wrong that is. Remastering is a very specific process in the music industry. Tee Lopes didn't do anything to the masters of the original tracks. He created brand new arrangements based on the original compositions, expanding upon the ideas brought to the studio by the original composers. It's also not remixing, for anyone else who mentions that.

Now they should do the same but with the 8bit games.

Bill had me on my ass 😂

Um... encore mode has new, harder special stages. Also, that's not how you pronounce Hydrocity.

Oh, thank GOD. You know how to say Hydrocity right.

Happy early Christmas to me

The miniseries is utterly amazing, and yes this is my third comment

22:05 Love you, but this is VERY Sonic. I think this is the 2D version of Sonic Vs. Shadow in SA2 (or Generations) and I find all 3 to be very essential Sonic moments despite the repetitive nature. They’re bosses so them being in a loop makes sense. Hey, if you get around to SA2 and apply these complaints to Sonic vs. Shadow, that’s fair. Difference in opinion, I suppose, but apart from the 4 loops being excessive, I have 0 complaints.

The only major complains i have with the game is the lack of camera panning where you run and lack of new levels. You could think they would add camera panning after so many years of complains but no. I also was not a fan of the reused content from past games. When not even 1/3 of the game have original levels its a shame even thought not a single one is the exact copy of past games. On the plus side it was the first time i really enjoyed going back after finishing the game that much. Previous games had tendencies of switching between good and bad level design where this one seems to maintain the same level of quality. There is no filler content and i don't think of a particularly bad level. Ah and also the music of this game... Damn thats good !

great