Sonic Origins - The Digital Foundry Tech Review - Good... But Should Have Been Great 

typical AAA execs who's surprised?

-lack of consistency Sega, Capcom, Square...there's a trend here.

"There was no reason to rush this out the door" - I have two words for you: Sonic's Birthday Sega wanted the game out by June 23, period. Stealth stated over on Twitter that he and his team knew the game wasn't finished and asked Sega for more time, but they said nope. He even asked them to patch the bugs and they stonewalled him. Eventually they may pull Headcannon back in the fix the issues, but who knows when (or if) that'll happen.

@@Konic_and_Snuckles that's entirely on SEGA . this collection could've been out on Sonic's 30th birthday and finished if they used their heads and started development earlier.

@@spvrda Oh, I know. And yet every media publisher pulls this last minute shit notwithstanding. Game publishers, anime publishers, film publishers, etc. That's why there's so many day one patches, OVAs, and director's cuts.

I understand there may be legal issues but there is no way I can personally play Sonic 3 with different music. That’s heresy.

Ice Cap 2 and the competition theme are the same as the prototype versions, so it seems like the official replacements are actually just from an even earlier prototype. The only original composition is the super theme which is why it uses the Sonic 4 instruments. That makes it even worse, they just didn't have the more polished versions for all the songs on hand, despite them being public :|

@@succojones I don't know if the replacements are from an earlier prototype or just the same production assets they used for S&KC, fact is that they are factually earlier drafts than in the prototype that was released. Possibly because the aforementioned "production assets" may have been the first conversion step from composer demo pitches, which got then changed up and polished in the game's internal sound engine (which means, Sonic Team kept making hotfixes as time went on, which were almost certainly not preserved properly because back then source/version control was wacky and unreliable), until November 1993 turned around. Proof of this is some tracks unused in the prototype like Sky Sanctuary, which presents some notation changes that are different from the final Sonic 3, but are found again in S&KC. Both in that case, and the one of Prototype VS S&KC/Origins, tracks from the former (i.e. not those featured in S&KC) are filled with flourishes and changes that make the music consistently catchier, compared to the the latter, which almost gives off a sort of incomplete canvas feel. In other words, SEGA don't have production assets dating from the prototype era, or they are not as easily found. They can't be assed of taking the prototype ones on the grounds of unprofessional behavior or some nonsense. There you have why Origins tracks sound objectively inferior. They are probably from an earlier version of the game than the leaked prototype, but weren't actually ripped off from a prototype per se.

For me, I can't play with those tracks. I just can't. And I was one who didn't think the music was going to be a big deal. But after watching this, I now realize how much Sonic's movement along with the music was such an important combination to the entire experience. The whole thing feels vastly different to me. I'm honestly shocked at how strong this feeling is. Maybe some people can overlook it, and they'll get to enjoy an updated game. I'm rather jealous but this is severely immersion breaking to me.

@@Konic_and_Snuckles man, why do fans always have to do what the devs won't?

That's the thing though. The developers don't even know if they will be allowed to fix the game. Sega is really a weird company with Western developers.

@@tomstonemale Japanese are all weird. I have been living there (Tokyo, from 2002 to 2014). The more the time passed, the less I understood them... So I gave up and went back to my Country.

It wil be a payd DLC called "Sonic Fixes".

@@tomstonemale That literally makes no sense. Why on earth would they not want them to fix their own game?

@@skins4thewin that's not what I said. Headcannon devs themselves said on twitter they offered and asked Sega for time to fix the game but weren't allowed. Even post-lunch, they don't know if they will be allowed to fix the game.

I wonder if Mario 64 was released that day to take attention away from the anniversary at the time

an "anniversary" release just reads better to investors than a random release day

Bump!

Bump!

Exactly! And are "small" things like the original music mod that keeps bringing me back to the PC and away from consoles

But we shouldn't have to rely on people at home to "fix" games that they didn't make or sell, nor should we have to mess around with mods. I'm more than capable of it, I've played around with very intricate mods. But that was mostly for fun. I just don't want to have to do that for FIXES on a product that I BOUGHT. That's like buying a movie on disc or something, only to find the image is washed out and the audio is muffled, so then someone could correct the image and audio and I have to download their version of it. - It's not exactly the same, but definitely about the same principle. - They should stop selling "fixer-uppers" like they're on the second-hand market or something.

Or don't buy half assed BS games again...

@@lusa3002 new from Sonic team: Sega FUCKING GIVES UP MAKE YOUR OWN SONIC GAMES IF ITS THAT EASY

They probably expect the community to do it. 😥

Who keeps giving them money? I have to know.

Someone wake me up when they fix the filtering!

the jetzons - hard times

I don't really care, I'll use the anti aliasing anyways. I would have preferred scan lines but the anti aliasing is an acceptable substitute. And before you jump on me I'll tell you why I prefer the antialising: because I grew up playing videogames on regular consumer TVs, you don't see the individual pixels on an average 14 CRT, and than god you don't because they look awful. Pixel hipsters are strange people: we always strive to get the best picture possible, yet they want to see classic games in their worst light.

@@souljastation5463 You don't care? Well, we neither, pal 😉

I always love seeing old ads included as bonus material. Shame Origins didn't include much of that

I actually emulated Jam last month in prep for Origins, only to find that annoying input lag. I can emulate well enough that I have next to zero latency when it comes to raw Genesis roms, and other Saturn games played perfectly fine on the inputs with Retroarch and Kronos, but Jam just inherently had that awkward delay that I didn't even finish Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 1 before giving up on those versions.

I loved Sonic Jam, and I hope the Sonic World eventually gets released in an update with maybe Knuckles Chaotix (even if emulated) to the game list. I hope we see updates.

Not to mention that the Sonic Gem versions will drop some frames from time to time. They are less smooth than the original versions. Furthermore, as they use CDDA audio, the music transition and loops lag a little.

@@alexsilva28 Jam had way much more content than Origins which frankly feels like a scam.

This is the sole reason I won't be getting it. I mean, the egregious DLC and glitches are bad enough, but ripping the original superb music out of Sonic 3 is an absolute killer for me. The replacement tracks are absolute garbage. Totally disappointed. :(

The original OSTs are great but they had to remove a couple tracks for copyright issues possibly with MJ. Those few removals is certainly no deal breaker for me although ice cap zone 2 will be missed.

Asking the right questions.

I experienced a glitch back in the day that allowed Tails to keep spawning past the point he was supposed too. S3&K. It was useful during those later boss fights.

Don't quote me on this, but I think Tails just automatically respawns once Sonic gets far enough away from him. It feels like in Origins this "threshold" on the distance so to speak is a lot longer than it should be.

Yes it unfortunately happens even with a player is controlling him. Every now and again you can hear the Tails death sound and he will respawn but if Sonic is trucking along you’ll definitely finish the level before that happens.

Did Sega release an older beta build instead of the final version? I don't see how this even happens.

@@3lH4ck3rC0mf0r7 no, they got the correct build, but made changes to it

@@3lH4ck3rC0mf0r7 No, according to Simon Thomley Sega did not use an earlier build of their work for the final release. From what I got from his Twitter thread it sounds like the whole process was a rushed job for some reason.

I would pay money for just the product headcanon produced. Seriously.

@@CaptViewtiful98 What's with game corporations and rushing everything these days...

Fr Imma keep playing mania

Doom's issue was that it got plague by DRM, this collection had an immensive list of bugs and glitches that unless you are casual player it will bother you in a way.

I bought the switch ports of Doom and Doom 2 early so I know what you mean. they were completely crappy at first but now they're amazing ports worthy of being on my switch

@@VOAN They had other big issues like wrong aspect ratio and music speed but are now perfect ports with many mods available too.

@@ramonandrajo6348 - Piracy is like finding a questionable disc in a dirty alley and just shoving it into your computer.

@@michaelmonstar4276 tell me you dont know what piracy is without telling me

Amen

*Brad Buxer tracks

@@amarokorama tomayto, tomahto.

For $20 bucks I'm glad I didn't get those. The ones we got are superior.

Yeah

Sega just doesn't give a shit. They haven't given a shit since they left the console industry. Now they give even less of a shit.

@@RawPower867 Pretty accurate, at least when it comes to listening to the fans.

The developers are fully aware of the bugs and were upset they weren't allowed to iron them out before releasing it. Sega forced their hands.

The lack of a CRT filter to me was shocking. How anyone looks at art made for scanlines, without scanlines, and thinks it's fine is beyond me.

@@retropulse03 totally agree!

@@retropulse03 Not to nitpick here, but a "scanline filter" is not the same thing as photon gun actually shooting those to the inside of the tube display. The art/graphics of old games accounts for THAT, the process and speed by which the display works. It's not just "show lines over graphics and problem solved" like a filter. It apparently helps a little, but not the same thing. John explained this in one of the DF Direct Weekly videos.

@@Karls_Clips you got a source for that? Not doubting you, just if there is some article or interview I'd be interested.

sms?

@@Voltricity435 Sega Master System

@@GASQBDUV ah

The game is $40

53 buck in cdn

@@bman2k4 60cad if you want the full game

@@callumdointhings5 WOW. Hard pass I WILL stay with sega genesis collection on pc

From what I've seen mods should be able to fix the issues, but honestly 1/2/cd are already fan-ported to the PC via the decompliations of the retro-engine ports, and Sonic 3 AIR, while not the same, is just as good.

Yeah me too Will defo wait for a sale

I'm exactly the same!!! I'm avoiding this because of it !! No original music no buy .RIP Michael Jackson.

same, the music is what makes these games timeless. Sega should just pay the asking price OR gives us music DLC for like $5 if they don't want to front the bill.

@@dreamxhollow Just paying it might not be an option since music studios are very protective of their music or their perceived value. They may not see the difference between a 90s rerelease or the newest Grand Theft Auto and want to charge either company the same price for their music. Which Sega isn't gonna go overboard paying for music for a few stages without charging us $60 for this collection.

@@arizona24joe I wouldn't mind paying thr pricetag if it was all high quality. These games are worth it imo.

@@arizona24joe Problem is Sega never properly paid for the music in the first place. Quotes from two members of the 'MJ music team': “I believe that there is a lawsuit going on or about to go on,” Cirocco Jones told one Sonic fan in a 2014 email exchange about his work on the game. “Sega owes a lot of people money from the Sonic stuff.” “You can contact my lawyer,” Bobby Brooks, another Sonic 3 contributor, wrote to the same fans. “Why would I just give info to a stranger while im [sic] in the middle of some legal shit.” Meanwhile Sega been weird, even having Billie Jean playing in a Sonic video on their official Tik Tok just the other day. Sonic co-creator Yuji Naka was disappointed at the lack of the 'MJ team' tunes and surprised at the Tik Tok video. He wants the original music,

Couldn’t he carry Sonic in 2?

@@mitchjames9350 I don’t think tails could even fly in the original sonic 2

@@mitchjames9350 Nope. In fact tails can't even fly in-game in the original Sonic 2.

@@yourself1210 He'd fly back on-screen, but yeah you couldn't make him fly. Never made any sense to me.

no one is talking about it because you could have Tails carry you in the mobile versions of both Sonic 1 and 2 so this isn't some revolutionary new feature they introduced just for this collection.

Here's the funny thing. Those WERE the original tracks. There's a prototype dated many months before release, and sure enough, it used the PC tracks. The Michael Jackson came along and composed some new tracks, which is what you hear in the Genesis version.

The 2011 PC port of Sonic CD used just 80kbps(!) Ogg Vorbis, so you're probably just hearing more of the same. :( (Not sure why they so desperately need the entire soundtrack to fit into ~25 MB. It's not like anyone would complain if each game was 25 or even 75 MB bigger.)

@@3dmarth Ogg vorbis has higher quality at lower bitrates but most devs usually use variable bitrate to save space and keep quality.

@@Epsilonsama Sorry, I should have been more specific: it's _nominally_ 80kbps, and most of these tracks average out between 75-85. Vorbis does hold up well at lower bitrates, but I think anything under 128 is still pushing it (especially when there's easily room for 256kbps or more). Opus is supposed to be a fair bit more efficient, and even it starts to sound just a bit rough as it approaches 64kbps.

It’s not retro

Also, "key"

I scrolled way too long to find this comment. Thank you.

Hard times, eh?

@@claridagio I see what you did there!

No matter how hard I try to like the new songs in the last couple of Sonic 3 levels, it just doesn't sound right, I'd love for them to restore the originals

@@rolandwillemse4202proto or mj

Yes, Sonic Team mismanages EVERYTHING!

No comparison. That's why I love his and Alex's analysis, as opposed to the rest of the team. That and the charisma.

@@arthurcuesta6041 What about those two are charismatic?!?? Out of curiosity…

Richard has much more experience and can notice what everyone else Is missing, but Is the boss and does not expose himself, Is more into technology than games these days, but he Is the best of the crew. John is improved a lot since the old days, i followed DF since the First video... Alex Is very good but too centered on limited game generes, he Is the PC master race gaming ray tracing guy. The other guy Is a very talented reviewer Who eat all the staff the other dont want to deal, and oliver the new guy Is a TV Expert as far as i know

@@Mr.Honest247 Don't know, maybe the passion they have about what they do. Tom and Richard are very monotone.

I’d die for a modern 32 bit style 3D sonic.

A new generation will never get to enjoy one of the most delightful chip-tunes of old school Sonic, what a shame.

it's a deal breaker for me too!. unless they fix it with a patch, I'll skip this. I still have the cartridges so I can still play the original with the real music.

@@pelgervampireduck just play sonic 3 air thats better than the genesis version and the origins version

I really wish I had discovered those before dropping 45 dollars on this unpolished stink :). That’s what I get for not thinking about the series much though and stupidly buying a shiny new release. Highly recommend those fan made pc ports to anyone. Work better, sound better, run better.

Sega are their own worst enemy. They should hand the rights to Sonic over and stop dragging the character through the mud.

Thats fair, but Sonic Team has definitely not done themselves any favors over the last few years. Other Sega published series don't have the problems that Sonic Teams games do, heck even other Sonic games don't (Sonic Racing made by Sumo Digital, Sonic Mania made by Whitehead). I could be wrong of course, but it really feels like the studio is just not good at organizing and hitting deadlines for the ideas they want to develop compared to other studios. Sonic Origins isn't a hard game to make, there's definitely two sides to that story

sources?

@@kupokinzyt the developer's tweets @HCStealth

They changed it because of collision issues which were not a thing on retro engine. I imagine the change couldn't have been easy to swallow, especially since Yuji Naka likes boasting about it.

If the price tag doesn't work for you, and you're on pc (likely since you're on df) just pirate it

@@zaidlacksalastname4905 There's one problem. Denuvo.

Ultimate is better than the original IMHO.

@@paulbell3682 Well, your opinion is wrong.

@@pikachu896 The originality is shining through your reply.

That’s kind of what I’m getting too! I just want to play the fucking game, I don’t give a fuck that a line on Sonic’s face is blurry during a cutscene!

@@Ludwig1970 I have the game bro. If the music changes don’t bother you, buy it. Worst comes to worst you’ll encounter a minor bug here or there. Nothing gamebreaking. And I have the steam version, which is supposedly the worst one…runs fine

@@TheJmack90 Yeah I’m not sentimental about the music. These game reviewers are becoming wine tasters! All of the good things he said about this game far outweigh the bad.

@@Ludwig1970 Because people like to focus on the negative more than the positive. In this case it’s getting out of hand. Like I get the criticisms, and there are more definitive modded versions, but on its own it isn’t close to being bad. Go for it!

Yeah even Sonic Mania runs at 60fps on Switch.

The menu barely runs even on Xbox Series X, it freezes for 10-20 seconds every time you go to it and occasionally throws a hard crash just for fun too

Bad engine? seems pretty shite.

@@sssembler it’s not that it’s a bad engine. Sonic unleashed, generation, I believe sonic lost world, and forces all used the hedgehog engine. Sonic forces basically ran at a locked 60fps on PS4 and Xbox one. I think this is just lacking proper optimization

@@crestofhonor2349 shouldn’t even need optimization for a game like this the ps5 and series x should be benching a 100 of these games at 8k 60 easily

Yeah that’s what I’m hoping too. Hope there are more patches coming.

It's based on the song "Hard Times" by The Jetzons. So we can at least enjoy that.

Only 3 levels, all the rest have the original tracks. Personally it could've been worse. They removed most of the songs I don't care much for

@@lolcat You won't understand unless you're a fan of Sonic 3. The soundtrack in that game is part of the experience.

@@lolcat Still a deal breaker for me. Three levels without orginal music is three too many.

Now, I for one actually prefer the Prototype tracks over the Release tracks, and I would have been satisfied if they rendered out the Prototype tracks using the Genesis soundchip, like those used in Sonic 3 Angel Island Remastered. But instead they used awful recreations that somehow sound _worse_ than the original PC port.

@@juicemanvon9859 Played through Sonic 3 multiple times on the Genesis. The original soundtrack is absolutely not necessary for the experience, only a *good* soundtrack is. People can want the original, people can prefer the original, but the rest of the game 100% stands on its own without it.

With horrible input lag don’t forget about that

@@Lnblackberry48 yeah with horrible input lag

Thats false advertising because the game only runs at 60fps.

Just buy the Sega Megadrive/ Genesis Collection for PS3/360. It has all the Sonic games as they were all original tracks in Sonic 3 also.

They said there might not be a patch to fix the issues from the original developer as sega hasn’t told them to fix

I don't think it's a matter of being a purist, it's more about the principle of we should get a good product... especially when we're paying good money for it.

@@WllKiedSnake Thanks, but I already have the original cartridges of the Mega Drive versions. I can always play those if I want.

@@SilentShurikenSS Sure, I get it. It's still a decent product all things considered.

But headcannon did develop the ports? Sonic Team just made the frontend. The issue was that SEGA higher ups didn't let them get the extra time they needed. A problem which has been detrimental to every other sonic anniversary game and one SEGA will definitely not fix. 06 and many others were ruined due to SEGA's rushing.

Sonic Team is still SO jealous of the Mania developers! I was impressed with Whitehead's 2011 Sonic CD port, and his Mania is the LAST great 2D Sonic game.

On Sonic 3 Sega has no say or choice as far as the Music goes