Great video sir. I didn't expect the UHD65 to be this close to the Sony in detail even after reading other reviews. I love the UHD60 so I can imagine the UHD65 looks just as good with the exception of brightness.
Yes, it is amazing and exceeded our expectations. The Sony still has the advantage of deeper blacks, brighter output and slightly more accurate color but hey, it should, at 3 times the price. We have decided to do a UHD60 and UHD65 comparison as well, so we should have the 60 in the next few weeks.
@@blackie75 different DLP color wheel design affects the brightness figure. The 65 has an RGBRGB wheel rather than a RGBWRGBW so when you compare them you get a different result than you might imagine.
I think the reason why the Optoma uhd65 looks sharper detail at some point than the Sony is: Sony is a native 4k projector it has smaller pixel, but It needs to fit 3 RGB panels. No matter how precise it is, there are mechanical limitations. If you look at the alignment screen, no matter how completely centered, you can still see little bleeding of red or green. However, the Optoma uhd65 (1chip DLP projector) is projected on the same place without errors in all RGB. There is no bleeding of the color.
Both great projectors, no doubt, but I like the colours of the Optoma better then the Sony as seen from my briljant Laptop Screen in 1080p. But as you mention from time to time, it is worth using these projectors if your screensize is big enough, right? My screen size is about 63 x 83,4 inch. I think 1080p will look good enough... 4K would be overkill, I guess.
So for 4K projection it is really a matter of viewing distance not just the screen size. If you view your screen from 1.5 times the height to 2X the height you are a candidate for a 4K projector as even your HD will look better on a good 4K projector like either of these. If you are 3 to 5 times back then you are fine with HD.
Because there is no clear or bright segments in the color wheel it is very minimal, however, individual perception is very different for each individual and I would strongly suggest you see it for yourself. Take some material that has both bright and dark scenes so you can determine if it is acceptable to you. Most CEDIA dealers have access to or can get a demo for you to see.
Sounds like Optoma is offering a compelling value as usual!! But how is the Rainbow effect? I have an Optoma HD25e and it can be pretty bad at times (highly contrasting images).
All single DLP home theater projectors have some level of rainbow artifacts. The UHD65 uses an RGB/RGB color wheel which tend to decrease or reduce the artifacts to the point that most people cannot see them. Since this is different for each person and their sensitivity to it I would suggest an actual in-person test with the projector before you invest in one. That way you know exactly what to expect for you sensitivity to it.
The comparison was shot with the Canon EOS Cinema C300 in C log. We are still working on getting the right combination of shutter speeds and ISO to better capture what our eye sees. Also visit the high res stills taken with a Sony alpha still camera at www.tvspecialists.com/optoma-uhd65-projector-comparison-sony-vpl-vw365es/ will give you some additional insights.
Thank you !!! Y know the film in beginning is made with the excellent FDR AX100 Y have this caméra ..Dommage no zoom in this realy 4k film ..Sorry my bad english Y am french.
Not impressed by either projector to be honest. I have the hd151x, if download a hi res iss space pic, the picture comes out pin sharp, whites are white and blacks black. Your uhd65 pic looks like my old Infocus x1 would perform. What's with all the new projectors? For most true 1080 is more than enough, problem is we rarely see proper 1080. I can play back 4k videos and they are pin sharp. Now i am probably seeing true 1080 as it's downscaled to fit. Have now come to the conclusion it's better to just replace my bulbs every six months to maintain optimum performance...and save money.
I understand, it is very true that these videos do not do full justice to a good side by side in person. Since this video was made we have learned a lot more about the Optoma settings and the interaction they have with other settings. The new blog and video we are currently working on with the UHZ65 and Sony VPL-VW385ES and VPL-VW285ES will address these interactions and show before and after images. You are correct, the black levels we shot back then were not optimised or the best the Optomas can do.
Yes, and no, the UHD60 uses a different color wheel that is usually not as accurate as the RGB/RGB wheel used in the UHD65. It should be brighter, but with less color accuracy and saturation. It also has less contrast and no motion compensation. Just how much we hope to find out later this week as we do a UHD60 vs UHD65 side by side comparison. If you need the brightness for a larger screen size or with more ambient light it may be a great choice.
We're now in the middle of our UHD60 comparison with the UHD65 to be published nest week or so. I can tell you the 60 is brighter than the 65 but only if you sacrifice color accuracy. There are some very interesting discoveries we found however, stay tuned. The UHD60 is not in the league of the Sony VPLV-W365ES, however as far as brightness, color and contrast. Calibrated or uncalibrated the Sony is still significantly brighter. (except the greenish "bright" mode of the 60.
Something else. The Sony is the "native 4k projector". Not sure what Optoma means by "true 4k" (e-shift tech again?). How much does it matter actually if the projector is "native 4k"? Will it mean the Sony will in the end give the better picture quality? Or does it have nothing to do with whether one is "native 4k"?
This is an excellent question about 4K! Native 4K has a resolution of 4096x2160. There is no content, except for some video game menus that are produced at this resolution. All content is mastered in 4K Ultra High Definition (UHD) which has a resolution of 3804x2160. This keeps the contents aspect ratio the same as consumer TVs 16x9 or 1.77:1. This is what most people call True 4K. Even though it’s not even 4K. This is different from an eShift of any kind. An eShift is taking a 1080p signal and faking 4K. It only displays the actual 1080p pixels, but shifts where those pixels are aiming, doing it so fast the human eye can’t tell that the pixels are shifting. It’s based off the same principle as persistence of vision. In the case of LCD projectors with eShift it results in 4 million pixels on the screen. Whether you have a Native 4K projector or a True 4K projector, they will both only display the UHD resolution which is 8.3 million pixels, since that’s 99% of the content that you’ll be displaying. Both projectors (the Sony and the Optoma) produce outstanding images, though, their resolutions will not change the resolution of a 4K signal. If you want a 4K UHD Blu-ray on the Sony, then on the Optoma, you’ll get the 3840x2160 resolution with both. Now it comes down to personal preference on which projector you think looks better, the black levels, HDR, color reproduction, etc. I hope this answers your question. If you have any other questions, please let us know.
Actually the Optoma uses a system better than e-shift as it already has 4 million pixels before it even starts its computer mirror reflecting shenanigans.
Thank you for the video! Under my subjective view though, the Sony has a clear yellow tint that makes the image look less natural than the Optoma. Is this related to the individual calibration of the Sony not being very accurate?
Yes, this first comparison with the Sony was uncalibrated as we thought many in the price range of the UHD65 would not do a full calibration. The Sony out of the box is a little warmer to the eye. To the camera however it does show more than our eyes tell us. If they are both calibrated the tint differences would be gone or almost invisible to the eye.
Wy do you you use the term "true" 4K when taking about the Optoma? - it uses a pixel shifting technique called eXpanded Pixel Resolution (XPR) to create a 4K image and is not true 4k.
Actually it should be true 4K UHD as "true 4K is actually 4,096 X 2160 and only Sony and JVC are curently doing that resolution. DLP 4K UHD projectors can and do deliver over 8 million pixels to the screen where other types of shift like Epson only deliver 4 million according to Epson's litereature and spokes people for Epson.
Thank you for a great set of videos. I found the comparisons to be very informative. I would like to offer a small, hopefully constructive criticism in your presentation. You have the units brand and model typed out over each screen, yet you spent a great deal of time telling us which unit was which as each test or change in scene started. I found it distracting and more so with each video as I watched all four in one sitting. Other than that I found your videos to be informative and they helped me decide the UHD65 will be my next projector.
Great review. For anamorphic lens users like myself, it would be appreciated if you can mention if the projector being reviewed has power lens shift or not. Thank you.
Good point, as you probably found out the Optoma does not have a powered lens or lens memory. It does however have the necessary internal processing for an anamorphic lens.
The uhd65 seems to be good step up from the uhd60. Why does it have so much Input lag.... I would have bought one at around 50ms. What is better at this Point the uhd60 or the uhd51, with ist improved Colour Wheel?
The input lag of the UHD51A is around 68ms depending on the color mode you’re in. The UHD60 has a range of input lag from 63ms to 56ms depending on if Dynamic Black is on or off. So the UHD60 is a bit faster.
The screen used for the comparison is a Stewart StudioTek 130 reference series. The differences at larger sizes would be even more apparent to the eye. For high res closeups visit our blog at tvspecialists.com/blog. The Optoma UHD60 does not have the color, contrast, or motion processing so we did not test at this level.
How much better are the Sony blacks. I can not see any difference in the video. In calibrated output on the udh65 would I notice the black level in a back to back blind test. Not side by side but just watching a short film on both. I have a budget of about 3,000 and Wang 4k within the next year. Any other suggestions other than the uhd65. How does the Sony compare to a modern led TV black level contrast. My Samsung 4k TV is very nice.
The difference is only really detectable on an almost completely black image. If the image has any light at all (like the stars) the contrast of the Optoma makes the light areas of the image brighter so it looks amazing compared to either the 365ES or the Epson LS10500. If you know what to look for yes, you could tell the A difference in the blacks if you had scenes like the lantern one we demoed if you know what to look for, otherwise most people would not if they are both set up properly. In a controlled lighting situation with a good screen ( not even a grey or "black" screen the Sony or Optoma UHD65 would approach what you are used to in a good high end LCD TV in terms of perceived contrast and color, but it is the difference between seeing a movie in a good theater and watching a movie on a flat panel. The flat panel is good but it's just not the same impact and certainly not the same detail that you see on a Optoma or Sony 4K projector at a viewing distance of 1.5 to 2 times the screen height.
My understanding is the UHD-65 will work best at around 105". That is a joke! The companies making these projectors have to remember all the things we have to do to have a decent picture. We have to have a 5.1 home theater and a decent screen to look at. Black out shades, longer more expensive cables. Watch out it has a laser there goes another $3,000. You guys get with the program give us native 4k and a bright 150" screen with good contrast at a decebt price then I have a look see.
I understand, but it is all relative. The Sony new 4K laser is $25,000, JVC 4K laser is $35,000! Absolutely not in the same class but the little Optama UHZ65 at $4,499 is the best value for money under $5K currently. Also, if you want to trade off a little color accuracy the UHD65 can do a 120" in the Vivid mode with decent results.
What is the optimal screen size for a dedicated home theater room. I currently have a 92" screen but Would love to go to 120".....what's the trade off? Thanks...great review!
By reducing the Sony's brightness, you are also enhancing the blacks, would this be correct Ted? I'd like to see them side by side again with the Sony in its high bright mode, and still see if the blacks are still just as good...
Yes that would be correct. Unfortunately we probably won't be doing many more home theater projector comparisons on RU-vid - as the majority of our business is commercial, government, industrial systems and generally those projectors are quite different than home theater projectors. But, if you'd like to see those projectors side by side - we'd recommend finding an authorized dealer of those and find a place that can show you in person (as it still beats any online review or pictures as it's hard to accurately capture with a camera without changing exposure but we did our best!). We can still do these comparisons in-house and in-person, and we do sell them, but we're refocusing our online presence (as Home theater stuff was really only about 10% of our business).
Love this. Thank you very much. Is there any projector at the optoma price range with the same quality picture that ALSO offers 3d? My budget is 3k and I really want the optoma but no 3d!
Thank you for this wonderful review. I am thinking of doing a 150'' screen, and my budget is max $3000. Would you still recommend UHD65 for 150" or a 1080p projector around UHD65's budget?
May be too dim in reference mode, may need either vivid or brighter solution. Next week we'll do side by side with UHD60 and see what the compromises are.
i would like to know that whether the serial no. printed on the projector and the one shows on the system information in settings is the same or not.Two days ago i bought one uhd 65 and it shows QU65811AAAAAC0020 on the projector back side and in settings itsQ78V7120801.Pls reply .
At 7 minutes you can see the American flag on the arm of the Astronaut as clear as day and yet it's just a mess on the Optoma, the clarity and the Whites are so much better with the Sony, faster movement blurs marginally with the Optoma as noted on faces as they turn. for the money the Optoma is ok, but comparing it to a projector like this Sony is unfair, i just want the Sony as its so much better but the cost is too high, comparing with projectors nearer the cost of the Optoma would be more helpful in my opinion.
Yes, we agree the Sony is absolutely the better projector, however, the Optoma, especially for the price is amazing and earned our respect on several fronts. Keep in mind for this video the "Pure Motion" frame interpolation was turned off. You may want to see the UHD60 vs UHD65 video to see what effect thic acan have. The UHZ65 coming up may be a more serious competitor in at least a few areas.
That is a great question. It turns out the color temperature on the camera we used was way more sensitive that what our eyes could see. To the eye, in person, they looked very very close even with out professional technician calibration. Each time we did a camera white balance either the Sony would look green or the Optoma would look pink. Fortunately if you look at skin tone images that was more indicative of what the slight differences were. We were more interested in the detail and resolution of this new DLP chip but in our next comparison of the UHD65 vs the UHD60 we will start this week we will do both an out of the box and a calibrated white blance as well as we hopr to shoot with a more accurate 4K professional camera.
I was going to buy the new Sony until I read you can't get full RGB at 4k... Still sub-sampling at 4:2:0 and only 10 bit. No support for HDMI 2.1. I game on my projector and the variable/120fps refresh rate available with 2.1 has me holding off a new purchase. Basically, it's G-Sync through HDMI.
What was the 4K Blu-ray you used? I don’t recognise it. If it was one of the many that are just 2k upscales then this comparison, at least the sharpness part anyway, may be useless. If it’s one of the native 4k films then I think the Optima was amazing. I think the fact that a good percentage of 4K Blu-rays are 2k upscales could be a good argument for buying the Optoma.
All of the motion footage was native 4KUHD from a server with the exception of the very last scenes which were 4K Bluray from Ghostbusters, you may also want to see the high res stills at www.tvspecialists.com/optoma-uhd65-projector-comparison-sony-vpl-vw365es/ as well.
One of the purposes of the comparison was to see how they did out-of-the-box with just basic selection of the manufactures best color settings, usually called reference or cinema. In this case the Optoma was slightly on the red side while the Sony was slightly on the green side. The camera we used, however was far more sensitive to color temperature than our eyes. Even though we could see the difference it was not as extreme as it would be to the camera. To see a different cameras view of some of these same images taken at the same, time visit tvspecialists.com/blog and compare the pluge bars and the skin tones as they more closely match what are eyes saw in person. Also if you go to 11:35 in the video you'll see the skin tone comparison which shows the differences as well. Later this week we will be doing a UHD65 vs UHD60 both calibrated and uncalibrated so we will be using a different camera as well.
awesome thank you so much! I keep hearing as well that these dont have any keystone correction which is confusing me as to how one could correctly set it up in a room? Also if you can cover that as well, because thats one main thing holding me back from my purchase.
So keystone should always be avoided if at all possible. As soon as you adjust keystone even one increment the whole image must be processed through a scaling engine which then takes you out of native resolution. The Optoma UHD65 avoids this by using a vertical lens shift. As long as you are within a few inches of the top or bottom of the screen you should be good. (depends on screen size and throw distance) It will not work if you need to be in the center of the screen. (not enough shift)
Looking at the specs of the Xbox One, It outputs 4K (3840x2160) at 60hz HDR at a 10 bit color rate of 4:2:2. The max Gbps it would be sending is just over 13 Gbps. As long a your HDMI cable is rated for 18 Gbps will be able to handle the signal. You don't need to get a 27 Gbps cable unless the devise can send a 10 bit color rate of 4:4:4. Even that is only sending 22 Gbps. The 5m Monster HDMI is around $200.00. You can get a 5m HDMI cable rated for 18 Gbps for around $85.00. The Cables that we carry and have had no problems with are Binary. They're 4K rated at 18 Gbps. I hope that answers your question.
We hope to but getting a demo has been difficult. We are a professional Vivitek dealer so getting the consumer product is actually delayed as the consumer group get them first. I did see the Vivitek at CEDIA a few weeks ago and it did look good. Not sure if it will equal the UHD65 but it should come close.
200" is definitely pushing either of these projectors if you want good 4K HDR. We would recommend either the UHZ65 or the Sony VPLVW885ES. Both are laser based and will easily do a 200" screen.
Actually is is quite different that the electronic e shift that JVC and the 4K enhancement that Epson uses. Both those techniques are based on the very large pixels of 1080p panels. The TI DLP projectors like the Optoma use a much higher resolution chip and an "optical actuator" so they have been clasified as "true 4K UHD" resolution both by the CTA and by multiple reviewers as well as we have done side by side with 4096 4K projectors, the fine detail is there and in many cases even looks more detailed than some "true 4K" projectors. It does deliver 8.3 million pixels to the screen. I would suggest doing a side by side with another "true 4K" projector as those who have seen both side by side as the real proof is in the seeing it for yourself.
Good question, that would depend on your screen type and lighting conditions. If you are in a completely dark theater environment and on a typical white 1.0 gain screen then we would recommend a max of about 105" or possibly a 110". If you want to do a 120" and are OK with the "Vivid" mode (most people like the extra brightness) a 120" is a stretch but may be do-able at a slight sacrifice of color accuracy.
Excellent review. My budget calls for the UHD65 or UHD60. But my screen will be 180" diagonal 2.35:1. Owner's manual for UHD65 saying that I'd need to place projector 18' away from screen for 16:9. Think projector can handle 18' for 180" on 2.35.1?
We recommend up to 105" in the reference color mode for the 65, however, you can use vivid but it would still be pushing it at 180" and you would have a trade off in color. You may need to go to the 60 and then we'll know in a few weeks when we test it how well it does at the larger sizes.
It will depend on your ambient light levels, your screen gain, and the quality of color you feel comfortable with. In a dark room with a 1.0 gain screen in the reference mode we would suggest no larger than 105" if you want to have a reasonable hope of getting some HDR range. If on the other hand you are OK with good but not its best color and minimal HDR capability then the vivid mode would allow an image of 120" or even 130" that would be fine except for HDR effectiveness if your screen gain is 1.0.
I'm running a 1080p Optoma at 125 inches. I could probably do 150 if I had a raised ceiling of 9 foot vs the standard 7 foot I've got now. In total darkness with blackout curtains or at night it's awesome.
Because there is a newer Sony projector out (and additional newer projectors), we will not be re-shooting this video. All of our videos since this one have been recorded in 4K. If you're interested in looking at the high-res stills taken while filming of this video, please check out our blog post linked to in our description.
I would agree with you, in fact I did see today that Sony is starting to lower their price on the 285ES by about $500. I think they will have to introduce a much lower price projector to really stay competitive even though they do have lens memory, 3D and much better out of the box color calibration.
One of the purposes of the comparison was to see how they did out-of-the-box with just basic selection of the manufactures best color settings, usually called reference or cinema. In this case the Optoma was slightly on the red side while the Sony was slightly on the green side. The camera we used, however was far more sensitive to color temperature than our eyes. Even though we could see the difference it was not as extreme as it would be to the camera. To see a different cameras view of some of these same images taken at the same, time visit tvspecialists.com/blog and compare the pluge bars and the skin tones as they more closely match what are eyes saw in person. Also if you go to 11:35 in the video you'll see the skin tone comparison which shows the differences as well. Later this week we will be doing a UHD65 vs UHD60 both calibrated and uncalibrated so we will be using a different camera as well.
Yes, I understand, it is not for everyone. If you are needing 3D or a serious gamer, the UHD 65 may not bethe best choice. We were just excited to see it can compete with the expensive alternatives in terms of detail and sharpness.
I hoped 3D would get rolling but it's being abandoned by mainstream movies and even the gaming companies. Maybe the 9th generation systems (PS5, Xbox ?) will have enough power. But honestly I bet VR is the next big thing the 9th gen consoles will do, much better than the tech demo level stuff with PSVR / Rift / Vive going on now.
More likely the Sony VPLVW385ES first. The 285ES is essentially a 365ES with a few minor improvements. Since it is in the same price range as the UHZ65 and is only lamp based unless you need the 3D or low latency of the Sony 285ES most will choose the UHZ65 laser at a little less cost or move up to the 385ES which should show even higher contrast. Stay tunned, we should know soon.
You failed, if the standard setting are out then what's the point in testing them, what you should have done is had both set up professionally and then see what difference there is and how accurate the colors black and whites are and so on. If you dont see its full potential what's the point after all, you would not view the image if the image was blurred, the first thing you would do is adjust the lens to get a sharp image. as for the two images i do see the Sony is far better and i am not a Sony fan more like JVC, i was hoping the Optoma was as good or better than the Sony. Disappointed.
Actually our purpose was two fold, one to see if this new DLP chip was really comparable to a true 4K projector and two to see if the UHD65 looked better in detail and resolution than the 4K shift technique. It is passed the test on both counts. Color and contrast with manufacture out of the box settings were just a bonus and has no affect on what we were really after. We would always recommend calibration and there will be many (and already are) on line calibration tests. So yes, you are correct we did not see its full potential in terms of color in these tests, just out of box typical results.
Then get on and test it once its set up correctly, and let us know if it's the bee's knees, then i want to know if it's better than the new JVC units, as i think the JVC dla rs520 with E-shift is as good as the 4k vpl-vw Sony 320ES. UK models, thanks.
I understand, I wish it were that easy. The UHD65 is not the "bee's knees" it does not even have lens shift or lens memory, but it is the best 4K UHD projector we have seen in the under $5k price range. Pixel shift or 4 million pixels on screen simply cannot equal the detail and resolution of 8 million pixels with a 4K source. Color and contrast are not the equal of the JVC or Sony but it still competes very well in a side by side.
The UHD65 can do 2:35.1 aspect ratio but only as a main screen with manual adjustment of the lens for 16:9. In other words it does not have lens memory or vertical resizing built in.
We absolutely agree. All reviews after this one were done in 4K. We have been shooting with the Canon C-300 Mk II. We are currently working on one in 4K with the new Sony VPLVW385ES and the UHZ65 which is proving very interesting. It will of course be in 4K and with and without calibration so out of the box performance can be seen as well. Thanks for watching and hopefully the 4K will prove to be more useful for you.
Very well done! What gain was the screen and how would these comparisons be at full image size? Anything to add in regards to motion resolution between these projectors? Do you have any intentions of doing a piece comparing the UHD65 and the UHD60? Great work!!!
The screen used for the comparison is a Stewart StudioTek 130 reference series. The differences at larger sizes would be even more apparent to the eye. For high res closeups visit our blog at tvspecialists.com/blog. The Optoma UHD60 does not have the color, contrast, or motion processing so we did not test at this level.
We did not, the Optoma has what they call "pure motion" and has multiple levels. From what I have seen it actually does a very good job with 24p content. (one of the key differences between the UHD60 and the UHD65) In this comparison we we mainly focused on the image quality in terms of color, contrast and detail. Next time we'll make sure it is in one of the pure motion settings for the comparison.
The Sony is very accurate and it comes that way out of the box. The Optoma can also be calibrated to be very good, but as we discovered over many of these comparisons, it is very difficult to make any final decisions on color accuracy over the web as the cameras tend to over emphasize the very slight difference in color temperature even after calibration. Calibration can be used to bring within usually 15 or 20 degrees but dead on through all levels of brightness is not realistic for current projectors or displays as the adjustments are not that accurate. So if one projector is at say 6490 and the other is at 6515 the camera actually picks up what even your eye does not. Even then some we have found prefer one while another prefers the other as when they are that close it can come down to your personal preferences.Since the 365ES is discontinued we suggest you visit the new VPL-VW385ES blag at www.tvspecialists.com/vplvw385es-vs-uhz65-projector-comparison-1/ I would also agree with you in this case the UHD65 does not quite have the color capability of the Sony, however for the price the Optoma is truly a breakthrough.
Actually is is quite different that the electronic e shift that JVC and the 4K enhancement that Epson uses. both those techniques are based on the very large pixels of 1080p panels. The TI DLP projectors like the Optoma use a much higher resolution chip and an "optical actuator" so they have been clasified as "true 4K UHD" resolution both by the CTA and by multiple reviewers as well as we have done side by side with 4096 4K projectors, the fine detail is there and in many cases even looks more detailed than some "true 4K" projectors. It does deliver 8.3 million pixels to the screen.
It has an actual resolution of 2716 x 1528 and over 4 million mirrors and uses switching to achieve a ‘4K image.’ It looks to be an excellent projector for the money but it’s misleading to say it’s ‘ true 4k’ ... it’s not
Until you see a 1 pixel test signal generator on it and also compare to a Native 4k at 4096 projector with the same generator it will be difficult to understand. It has surprised even the most experienced reviewers. Please also see what others, after we did our evaluation are saying about the Optoma detail and sharpness in respected reviews like Projector Central and Widescreen review as released at CEDIA 2017 in San Diego.
I understand what you are saying, however it is 8.3 million individually addressable pixels and the CTA does consider it "true 4K UHD" resolution, also see www.projectorcentral.com/4k-dlp-projectors.htm for another technical view on the TI 4K chips. Soon we'll compare to the new, just announced Sony's and we'll see how it compares including single pixel 4K test patterns and computer graphic images.
