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Sorcery TCG| Revealing Beta Allocation: Update & Discussion! 

Cardboard Guide
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Sorcery Contested Realm Beta set has a lot more demand than supply. As more local game stores see their allocation, outside of the Sorcery Innkeeper guarantee the community is left with the question: is this a "player set"?
In this video the Cardboard Guide dives into the fact, the backlash, and our take on the Beta allocation and wether or not the community understanding of the Sorcery Beta set is the same as the Sorcery team?
Please join in the conversation in the comment section, so we can have a constructive talk about the Beta print run and the possible need for more communication with the team.
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Cardboard Guide is your guide to Magic the Gathering, Flesh and Blood, Sorcery TCG and other TCGs. We love to engage with our community to feel free to leave a comment and we will be sure to get back to you.
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1 окт 2023

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Комментарии : 135   
@richarddefilippo3076
@richarddefilippo3076 10 месяцев назад
Great analysis as usual guys - I totally agree about better communication and widely available precon decks. I also love the idea of slow organic growth and actually having cards that are worth more than the paper they are printed in!!
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Thank you for taking the time to comment! 🙏🏻 I enjoy the aspect of slow(er) growth as it is really refreshing and feels like what they have said from the beginning, that Sorcery would be ideal as a second TCG, that you can easily pick up again after a break. I also think that having some card have value is completely fine, as long as it is balanced with accessible products for new players like the precons.
@zonimi
@zonimi 10 месяцев назад
My take: Eric mentioned that demand for Beta is higher than they could even physically print. So far from marketing and pushing the game, he needs to NOT increase demand right now. Plus he wants this to be collectable, so they aren't really interested in mass production. I think the mistake they made was making the Inkeeper store allocations too high. They could have cut that to 15 cases to allow for new stores to get more product. Inkeeper Allocations are going to make this regionally available with people not near a store stuck. Would have been nice to see non-Inkeeper stores be able to order up to 5 cases without allocation problems. Encourage new stores to join instead of turning them away. My wish list? Announce Revised as soon as Beta starts to sell out (a day after release?) and cut some of the Power cards from that print run. Announce a rotating Revised plan and make that the "unlimited" print run that is designed to print and ship in waves and be the Player's cards. Plus make the Revised set(s) different enough from Alpha and Beta to keep the limited initial sets valuable. I'm interested to see if Alpha and Beta will have differences beyond the @ symbol on the card.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I agree very much with your take. I think they are deliberately not marketing a lot right now, because they now that the demand is already higher than the supply. I also think you could argue the case that they needed to think more about the amount that was guaranteed to the Innkeepers. I applaud them for supporting the stores that supported them. However, I also think they made an initiative to sign on new stores -but perhaps without having product enough to supply them with. I also mentioned in the video I would love them to do something different with art or something like that for Revised, and perhaps also rotate out some of the cards. I think that announcing Revised would be good for stores, but they would have to be careful as Revised could be more than a year away.
@devinmychan9262
@devinmychan9262 10 месяцев назад
Love that dearhs door in the background. Great info, thanks to tou both.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Thanks for watching! We appreciate you taking the time to write a comment, the engagement means a lot for getting the video pushed. The Death's Door or River Styx is just a beautiful card. We own one of the exclusive prints that Elwira Pawlikowska made and sold via her Etsy shop and we just need to get it framed.
@chesterfieldthe3rd929
@chesterfieldthe3rd929 9 месяцев назад
Well Done!! Good Points as always 👏 Cant wait for Beta and beyond.....
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
Thank you, it will be interesting to see how it pans out. Watch out for out new video going up later today on some leaks and Easter eggs for Beta and Arthurian Legends. 🙌🏻
@The_Protagonist
@The_Protagonist 10 месяцев назад
You both knocked this out of the park and hit on all points. I was starting to type comments and then you covered it while I was typing it out. LOL. I had to change my comments many times. I personally like this approach. I prefer it to be more of a valuable product and like MTG even if it’s more of a rarity the majority of cards will still be rather inexpensive. But the premium hot cards will cost. And no matter what anyone thinks. These are pay to win games. I don’t expect a second print wave at all. I think they predetermined exactly how much they want out in the wild and they are going to hold to it. I also think many of the things EC has done are very intentional. It’s what they want to do and the community is making assumptions. The issue of providing too much communication is you push away potential buyers even if they aren’t who they are targeting. It’s something that I also would try to avoid. Additionally I don’t like generalized info. Either give us exacts or don’t say anything at all. A good example is the dust system. Oh this is the dust. This is how you get points. We will tell more later. Uhhhhhhhhh…. Saying too much can set expectations and then puts them on the hook to deliver. Where as not saying much, the community has to have discipline to not create expectations that the company never agreed to or presented. And there for they aren’t at fault. It’s a tricky thing to deal with. Again, love the video. Great job! 😁
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Thank you for the comment. 😉 It ended up being a bit of a longer video, but we really wanted to talk through a lot of different points. 🙏🏻 We are not expecting a second print wave either, I think printing and shipping is fairly expensive, and I think that this is a one and done. I agree with Erik and the team being deliberate and also having a plan for a slower and more careful growth, which actually sounds fine to me. Managing expectations has been a key focus for a while and I think that in the desire to share with us, we often end up in an awkward spot between too little or not enough information to go on. So they do need to think about the communication and I would love to see them do some more Q&A with the community and talk a bit about where they are at right now.
@rayserrato9519
@rayserrato9519 10 месяцев назад
Thanks for the breakdown!
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Thanks for taking the time to check out the video and leaving a comment. 🙌🏻
@JunkhouseEntertainment
@JunkhouseEntertainment 9 месяцев назад
Bought some boxes, opened them, played with friends and family. Love the game.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
Definitely, the game is a lot of fun and people gravitate towards it due to the grid and art.
@lystic9392
@lystic9392 9 месяцев назад
That is the most important for the game. ^_^ If it's fun, it will stand much stronger.
@teb5479
@teb5479 10 месяцев назад
Ive almost completed my alpha play set and have 6 boxes of beta pre-ordered. I think only one print run is exactly what needs to happen. Its ok for the game to grow slow, thinking back to the 90's this is exactly how magic released. Never even heard of the game until after Revised released and look how well it did.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I also think that slow growth is a good way to go, especially because there is an option to play (for free) digitally on TTS and the Alpha singles are already available and affordable out there, so I think it is easier to get into the game then people assume off the bat. So exciting about your Alpha set being close to complete, what cards are you missing? We are also very close to being finished, and our last three cards are on the way to us in the mail. ;) Thanks for checking out the video and taking the time to leave a comment!
@teb5479
@teb5479 10 месяцев назад
I have all the elites, exceptional and ordinary. Missing about 30 of the unique cards including the stone and cores. I missed the kick starter so i'm buying everything off ebay 🤕. Trying to buy slowly so that my wife does not murder me... @@CardboardGuide
@d.b.s.6381
@d.b.s.6381 10 месяцев назад
I pre-ordered a booster box and two pre con boxes of beta a year ago(it seems). So I'm happy if they don't print anymore. I think they should do the revised edition that you mentioned so that cards can get into the hands of people who want them at an affordable price. But keep the beta print collectible, please!😁
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I think that Beta will be a smaller print run as the company seems to be going for a slower growth and also that they were genuinely surprised by the demand. Print runs are notoriously difficult, and no less so with the first set release after a Kickstarter.
@dragon8310
@dragon8310 9 месяцев назад
More of the same. People who got in for the Beta want everyone else to be shut out so their cardboard is worth something. So people just finding out about it will have to pay even more exorbitant prices for anything collectible. What a pathetic group. I backed Sorcery on Kickstarter, but the pompous, elitist, condescending community is the reason I'm out.
@DudleyNivorous
@DudleyNivorous 10 месяцев назад
I agree with you that the communication needs to be better. Nobody is sure how available Beta will be. We get conflicting info. Some stores complain they got allocated harshly. Partners seem to have almost an endless supply. Is the balance between getting product to partners vs getting product to new stores right? Mess up with allocations and many of those places will not be interested in the future. You only get one chance to make a first impression, which is what Beta is. Apha was the teaser. Seems to me that many of those who backed are also going in heavily on Beta, which means the same people are getting much of the product, and thus the game can't grow enough. I don't like to see collectibility be a main thing for Beta, especially since many buyers already have collectibility with the Alpha they already have. The game is small now, print runs are not going to be that big relative to the potential player base no matter what they do, assuming high demand that we think we see is real. Beta will be reasonably collectible no matter what. If I can't steer friends to places where they can pick up Beta, they will simply give up, Sorcery will become old news, and I will not have people near me who want to play. If I end up with a lot of Beta but no way to play except maybe online, which I haven't tried and don't really want to do, the game will be a major disappointment to me. It will be too long before AL comes out for those who miss out on Beta to stick around waiting on Sorcery to become available to them. One set a year is ok but that one set needs to be widely available and stay widely available. If not, the hype dies, stores move on, and all the collectors can collect yet another dead game. I mean if Beta comes out and what little is available is gone quickly what happens next? Can't just be wait for AL.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Hi there! Thanks for commenting on the video, and apologies for the late reply. I think you make a lot of strong points, I agree that the Beta is the first impression for a lot of the LGS', and not being able to get product is definitely a feel bad, but I think the company was caught off guard by the demand. I also think you are absolutely correct that a lot, if not most, backers loved the Alpha product som much, that they have preordered Beta. I don't think collectability should be the main things for Beta, but the team striving to strike a balance between accessibility and collectibility is something I think is wise. If push comes to shove, you can always add another print run or follow up sooner than anticipated with a Revised set, whereas you can't remove boxes from the market or change the perception that "they are going stale on the shelves". I think Beta will be available, but I also think we need to factor in that most of the Alpha singles are cheap and easy to get, so if you want to dive in, a lot of people could actually do that now, and with TCGPlayer anyone who is interested will have very easy access. If you ever decide to play on TTS, b´just as a supplement to real cardboard, feel free to join our server and look for games.
@MrWizard65
@MrWizard65 10 месяцев назад
This is a realy pivotal moment for the game. Many people have been waiting in the wings for Beta given Alpha prices were too high. Knowing the next set would likely not be out for another year, it's extremely important that affordable collecting and playing be available. Printing the crap out of the precons should have been priority #1. Get people hooked on game play and art and at that point some elevated cost for boxes wouldn't be terrible. They need to fix this or future of the game is literally at stake here.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I agree about the precons, but to be fair, we don't know from all the distribution and stores yet. Louie's store seemed to have gotten a good deal of precons and they are really the way to go for a new player, and then you can always upgrade from there. Also even though boxes are extremely fun to open, buying singles is always the best option and Alpha singles are for the most part already very cheap, and Beta will most likely be even cheaper.
@eccboy7
@eccboy7 10 месяцев назад
Great insight from you both as always. I think I mostly agree with your main points, but i think much like MTG, beta will be a limited collectable run which may be followed by a larger 'revised' release. Perhaps as well a revised set will introduce some new cards to prevent certain alpha/beta cards from being reprinted.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
We think it will be limited as well, but not to exclude people, but rather to find a balance between getting new players in and making sure the game is collectible. I also think it very likely that a Revised release will feature new art, exclude certain cards from reprint, or have another very visible difference to make them different from Alpha/Beta. Did you back the Kickstarter, or are you starting with Beta? Thank for the kind comment and checking out the video! 😉
@eccboy7
@eccboy7 10 месяцев назад
Hi guys, and no problem at all! It's great work you do supporting games that aren't MTG, Pokémon etc (I'm a huge MTG fan don't get me wrong, but I'm concerned that it's perched on a bit of precipice now). I agree that they are likely trying to find that sweet spot between availability and collectability, which is really difficult especially for a new TCG. I also think revised will definitely include new art etc. I missed the Kickstarter (heard about the game for the first time when I was on holiday with my wife in northern Greece 🌞) but quicky found some videos on it from Hain and really fell in love my the art and board game style. Ive got a very modest alpha collection and some sealed alpha pre cons but I've pre-ordered 6 boxes of beta so far. Would like more of course, but I need to strike that balance between what I will open and what I may keep aside....UK prices aren't cheap haha 😅😅
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
We really appreciate it, @eccboy7 A big part of us doing RU-vid videos is the interaction with the viewers and the community in our Discord. We have tested out a few games and covered them here on the channel. Besides MTG, we have really gotten into Sorcery and the community is so kind and welcoming. We are also very excited for a new TCG x Wargame, called Grimpath! Happy to hear you still managed to get some cards even though you missed the Kickstarter. We are also on for six boxes of Beta, as this will hopefully be the set we get to play with actual cardboard! 😉 And like, we are in Denmark and prices are fairly high.
@eccboy7
@eccboy7 10 месяцев назад
Cheers guys, and yeah it's great to know other games get attention rather than there being a complete monopoly on TCGs...which tbf MTG aren't far off having these days. 6 boxes as well! Sounds a plan to me! Not tempted by a few extra at all? 😁 Not heard of that game you mentioned...not sure I can afford collecting any more than two TCGs...I thought collecting magic was too much!! Look forward to seeing your next sorcery video. Seeing you play some games would be good since I'm still yet to find any players local to me. Its still very new here and my LGSs are yet to stock to my knowledge. I also wouldn't have guessed you were both Danish! I'm ashamed to say I thought possibly South African. I'm sorry! But then again I've been told I sound french when I'm from the north of England 🤣🤣
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
@@eccboy7 Exactly, but I do feel like MTG has be a part of pushing people out and getting them into other games. The frustration over the current leadership at WotC and Hasbro and some of the epic failures like Magic 30th, the release pace, the gazillion variants, just to name a few issues. We are totally tempted to get more, but we have zero open preorders left in locally or EU, but if there are available boxes at prerelease, we will probably be more than tempted! 😆 Grimpath is a Kickstarter game, that will launch first thing in 2024, but it is coming to TTS later this month! The game looks like a lot of fun, great art, and a cool crossover between wargaming, TCG, and a dash of roleplaying. Jens had played a game with a friend on TTS at @Sorcery Gambler’s Club YT channel. And more play videos are definitely something we would love to do. We will be releasing a video on all the Sorcery Avatars this weekend! Ha, ha, accents are a funny thing, and a bit hard to pinpoint at times. 😄
@Bronson-_-
@Bronson-_- 10 месяцев назад
Good discussion. So if boxes are 50k and not enough, what do you think the print run should be to enable players to get cards they need? Just curius, great chat, cheers!
@bjpoli6526
@bjpoli6526 10 месяцев назад
Only decks should bé available in a very large amount
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I think it depends on the goal. If you want quick growth, but at the risk of overprinting, you print a ton (especially if you have the financial ability to sit on some of it and slowly release it). If you want to strike a balance and minimize overprinting, and especially with a first post Kickstarter product, where you don’t know the real demand, you print carefully. I don’t know if there is a “perfect” number, but I think boxes could be printed in the 50-60K region and then they could have gone all in on printing precons and playmats. I do think the precons and playmats should be widely available to pickup, and then people who love the game can easily get singles to upgrade the decks.
@silverwolf6866
@silverwolf6866 10 месяцев назад
Players can currently get even alpha card singles cheap, right now. I have no clue what this whining is about. It does not make any logical sense at all.
@sorcerygamblersclub
@sorcerygamblersclub 10 месяцев назад
I asked the lgs about their allocation and they said they have no indication of a shortage and are still taking pre orders as we speak. So it sounds like prince distro in Canada is healthy, at least from my 1 small source haha. Awesome recap! Edit: I agree about the precons, if they are going to overprint anything it's those!
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I am happy to hear it. I will be going down to my local LGS tomorrow and talking about the Beta allocation as they were the only Danish Innkeeper and I hope they know more and can say something about the allocation for Scandinavia/Europe. ;) Yes, hopefully the precons will be more plentiful than what the current situations indicates. Thanks for checking out the video! I can't wait to see your video with the three packs!
@LL-rn2xp
@LL-rn2xp 10 месяцев назад
Great points on the LGS's. I love this game, but I will critique when needed. Per website -retailer section: "As a retailer, you'll have everything you need to support a thriving local community of Sorcerers." "Sorcery: Contested Realm - Beta Edition launches with a Social Play Store Kit for “Brick and Mortar” stores around the world, containing the following exclusive items." They may need to edit those lines lol. So "new" brick and mortar stores or stores that distro doesn't deem worthy of getting allocation will miss out? So what's the point of signing up store locations on your website. Why not give stores that signed up some kind of allocation. And are innkeepers going to get guaranteed allocations forever?
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Thanks for checking out the video and taking the time to leave a comment. I think they timed their Store referral program and Social Store Kits at a bad time. Ideally they should have either waited for a launch with a product that was more plentifully printed or made some exception or guarantees to stores that signed up by a certain date (they might have done so, I just don’t have any knowledge of it). I completely agreed that this was a bit of a misstep on their part, but I also think there were legitimately taken by surprise by the demand. I hope that they will think about some of the points, I am quite sure that they already are, and how to improve upon them before the next set.
@TheRememdium
@TheRememdium 10 месяцев назад
I think they do right by the game integrity itself as a medium between collecting and playing the game. I believe beta needs to function to stabilize and maintain the value of alpha. The worst thing they can do is to overprint. If they decide on a revised set, that is a decision I can stand behind. The downside with this is the delayed enjoyment of widespread physical gameplay, it would however be more of a problem if all this was happening during the 90s, as there were no digital ways of enjoying the game at the same time. That is a luxury we do have. (There's something magical about holding the cards physically in your hands though, and looking over to the other side of the table and laughing (crying) at your friends.) And for collectability beyond just alpha, I think it's very important to build further value and reason for Sorcery's current and future fans. I am one of those, I followed the Sorcery Alpha Kickstarter from day 3 without being able to fund it because of my budget at the time. I might add that there will 100% be more gameplay happening after beta releases, although it will be at a slower pace than some people would like. But all in all, it's a happy medium I think. As always, both of you are crushing it with these videos. Keep it up!
@dragon8310
@dragon8310 9 месяцев назад
Revised? Are they just milking the magic nostalgia for all they can? Revised was unique to magic since they "revised" cards (mechanics, strength, text, placement). Printing a 3rd print of the exact same cards and calling it revised is so incredibly pandering. You all seem to be eating it up, though.
@TheRememdium
@TheRememdium 9 месяцев назад
@@dragon8310 I don't think anyone has confirmed anything of the sort, but it's not uncommon that TCGs do this. I personally don't want to see it happening. I want the game to get going with Arthurian Legends next and an entirely new edition after that, but we are just thinking loudly here, only the creators can truly answer it. This isn't some wikipedia, it's a commentary field on a video of some facts and some speculation, the sooner you understand that, the better. And yeah, maybe we are eating it all up, just not in the way you think though. Lastly, if they were to do a revised edition, do you think they'd just do it for nothing? Don't you think that if they did that without actually changing anything, it would go unnoticed? A bit confused by your comment, but maybe that was the purpose of it?
@chesterfieldthe3rd929
@chesterfieldthe3rd929 9 месяцев назад
​@dragon8310 LOL You are behind my friend, now think of this......a game you love MTG......make a game that makes you feel like the game you love but with your own spin and learn from the past and do things right for the future........take pointers about the past and do it better........I could go on and on. You need to expand your mind.
@TheRememdium
@TheRememdium 9 месяцев назад
@@chesterfieldthe3rd929 I think you need to elaborate and reflect over your own words. I understand you don't find Sorcery interesting, that's fine. But with what I grasp of your wording so far, you look at Sorcery as some kind of clone of MTG. It's not in my eyes, although it has similarities like every TCG has. So maybe you need to look to the future and not in the past? I don't think we'll get anywhere with this, let's just say we agree to disagree. :)
@chesterfieldthe3rd929
@chesterfieldthe3rd929 9 месяцев назад
@TheRememdium I freaking love the game and the art is better than anything that has ever been put on cardboard besides maybe alpha mtg. Whatever your spouting is nonsense and it needs to ✋️ ...😆👍👌👏😂
@urbano999
@urbano999 10 месяцев назад
When I ordered Beta (seems a year ago hahaha) I only pre-ordered 3 booster boxes because I thought it would be a bigger print run and I just wanted some boxes to open. I am an alpha pledger (I pledged and already have a single alpha booster box and a single alpha precon deck box) and when I saw how collectible and expensive the alpha product was getting I just decided to store the alpha boxes sealed in an acrylic case for forever and just wait for beta for the joy of opening packs and perhaps playing. Seeing this tight allocation data I am thinking I will ALSO keep the Beta product sealed hahahaha, and just wait for revised in some 12 months or so. I am sorry...I just love owning desirable stuff! (I am also sealed box collector of MTG and FAB).
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I would say if you have three booster boxes of Beta coming, I would really recommend opening at least one. The box opening experience is a lot of fun! The art is even better in person, the foils are north rare and spectacular, and experiencing the product is worth it. 😉 We will be saving a Beta box also, but we will be playing and drafting loads with the other boxes! 😍
@asaffin1
@asaffin1 9 месяцев назад
An interesting thing to consider is that prices for Beta boxes on eBay have already slumped down to $140 from the $150 MSRP. So that tells me there isn't enough demand in pre-orders and stores are trying to ensure their allocations sell out.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
Thanks for checking out the video. I think that is a possibility. I also think that most stores got boxes very affordably, so a lot of them just want to sell them quickly and get money on the box, because there finally is a product they can sell with a profit.
@aggilex5417
@aggilex5417 9 месяцев назад
I pretty sure there will be more print runs or they even have a larger print run without releasing the product. The balance between collectibility and availability depends on the demand which is to this day unknown. While sizing the initial release well is important, the only really viable strategy is to continuously release more product after the initial based on observed (and correspondingly updated estimates of) demand. In that light, if I were them, I'd rather err in the direction of (slight) shortage in the initial run. Personally, I think simply communicating that there will be print on demand will also make sure that prices are kept a little more in check, annihilating the bets on limited runs and the incentive to just hoard product as an investment.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
I think they seemed to be taken a bit by surprise of the demand, but they might have printed extra and, as you say, have the ability and financial means to hold it back until/if necessary. 😉
@Shishkebarbarian
@Shishkebarbarian 10 месяцев назад
This isn't bad news. The age old rule of thumb of anything you build demand for, is you make one less than you know you can sell. Sorcery as a brand, a business and us as collectors want the collectability to hold strong. Even if that means we can't get the 50 boxes we wanted and have to settle for 30 (just throwing numbers out there. I wanted a case and I'm pretty sure i'm gettign 5-6 boxes). Flooding the market to drown out demand isn't a great idea. people will hold higher value and appreciation for something that isn't found in a bargain bin. the aura of exclusivity along with the premium feel of the product is much healthier. The game is fun and it will spread, i'm sure the precons will be available as their collectability in beta is extremely limited. I'm glad to see Erik be cautious and not fall into the same trap that FaB and MetaZoo did.
@CrosswaIk
@CrosswaIk 10 месяцев назад
That doesn't apply to games that need to build a playerbase
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I think that the team stating that they they are trying very hard to balance getting new players into the game, and also thinking of the collectability and existing players, is encouraging to hear, and I think it fits with their slower release pace and focus on handcrafted art, that set some limitation on how fast they can produce sets. I think that TCGPlayer will also be a game changer, a lot of us in the community, know where to find precons, and singles, but TCGPlayer will product available to the broader public at an entirely different scale. Thanks for checking out the video and commenting, we appreciate it! ;)
@Shishkebarbarian
@Shishkebarbarian 10 месяцев назад
@@CrosswaIk it applies to all T/CCGs. As long as cards are selling out everything is good. With time the collector and player markets find a balance as long as the company remains solvent (ie, keeps selling out). Or not, like Pokemon and fab, more people collect than play
@Nooneaskedforthis
@Nooneaskedforthis 10 месяцев назад
Creating demand through scarcity is the way.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Thank you for commenting and checking out the video. 😉 I think the demand was brought on by a lot of people wanting to get into the game and a lot of Alpha/Kickstarter backers, such as ourselves, that enjoyed the game so much we wanted more. I don’t know about scarcity there was an extremely long open preorder with guaranteed delivery from Team Covenant, so everyone had the opportunity to get boxes. I think the scarcity comes from more interest than initially projected by the company and we still don’t know if there will be more waves or they decide to print more of some of the items.
@shado7418
@shado7418 10 месяцев назад
Seeing Alpha and Beta as lower prints and the having the Revised, would be like the Unlimited for FAB. I'm OK with this, I pre-ordered a Case of Beta, but I am looking forward to buying a Revised.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Thank you for checking out the video and leaving a comment. I think that the smaller print are a result of the company wanting to grow more slowly and legitimately being surprised by the demand. I hope we see Revised with some alterations and maybe new art for some of the cards.
@ianc6691
@ianc6691 10 месяцев назад
Lots of big uk stores still taking pre orders well below rrp some as low as £111, I got in early so already lost around £30 per box, you win some you lose some I guess.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Wow, I wonder if this is because UK just got more allocation across the board, because you can’t pick up even a singles box in Denmark right now. The preorders closed a good while ago and the last boxes even got an extra markup, because of demand.
@leptonsoup337
@leptonsoup337 10 месяцев назад
I preordered two cases through Team Covenant... and I was hoping that I could score another 2-3 cases after release. It looks like I´m going to end up with more Alpha than Beta! WTF?! I hope we get a second print run... if we don´t this isn´t going to end well.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Luckily Team Covenant seems to have a guaranteed supply and we don't have the full picture from all stores and distributors, but it matches what Simon said "demand far outstrips supply" in the recent video update he did. It seems like a lot of people that backed the Kickstarter also wanted multiple boxes/cases of Beta and with new people coming into the game, there was a lot more demand than they had anticipated.
@The_Protagonist
@The_Protagonist 10 месяцев назад
What do you mean “isn’t going to end well”? What if this is the companies objective? What if they are trying to keep it more limited? Not trying to argue just asking. Because we genuinely don’t know what EC goals are.
@Shishkebarbarian
@Shishkebarbarian 10 месяцев назад
nah this is good news. it keeps the game in demand, keeps collectability high and is great for keeping Sorcery on the discussion block. We're not yet sure if Arthurian Legends is coming 1yr after Beta or 1yr after Alpha so a 6 month spread is possible and healthy. If more Beta product comes to market i hope it will be in the forms of Precons or if draft boxes then it won't go to those that preorder but to new players and fans. The order limit for customers after preorders are fulfilled should be 1 box.
@joesullivan9750
@joesullivan9750 9 месяцев назад
LGS getting the volume of cases are not going to be able to use all of that product locally. It's going to work out for players looking for singles when the store owners crack those packs.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
I think that is interesting. I feel pretty sure that there will be enough affordable singles available for everybody to buy cards and build decks. 🙌🏻
@eldadoverdethegreendice6893
@eldadoverdethegreendice6893 6 месяцев назад
As a shop owner I must say Sorcery has been a very difficult product. I find it a great game but 2-4 people have taken every single booster I ordered and now I cannot order more. That means there is no way of having a growing community and that I cannot recommend people to play Sorcery. If the direction is to do no more print runs of Beta then I will have to step out of the train in this station as it is going to be impossible to manage it for a non trading card game store like mine. Also I am finding something interesting in the meaning of the words, as "collectible" does not mean the exact same thing in english and in spanish and that could have led to some missconceptions. If something is collectible in english that means that there is some value in it, but the value in this case is driven by scarcity. Which goes directly in the opposite direction of what collectable means in spanish were yes, there can be some scarcity, but it should be possible for the majority of the people to get one of each of the pieces that make the collection. Should I have known this impossibility of providing people with product I would have never brought Sorcery to my store. And I can consider myself a huge fan of the art, the gameplay, but it is just frustrating.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 6 месяцев назад
Hi there, I am sorry to hear it has been difficult. However, I believe it is really important to remember that Sorcery had very little to go on, when they decided to print Beta. It is the first retail set, and it is a brand new game, so I think giving it a shot, especially since it clearly was very popular, was a good decision. Right now, getting some bulk from people who bought the boxes, so you can build some pauper decks or cracking a precon, so people can learn the game might be a way to start? Future releases will hopefully be more aware of the demand, but to be fair the game became incredibly popular between the time they ordered the print run and when it released, so the team behind Sorcery had no real idea how much demand there would be at the time when Beta released. I think the future set, Arthurian legends, will be amazing, and I think it would be worth it to be a part of it, and hopefully Europe will get more boxes this time. ;)
@eldadoverdethegreendice6893
@eldadoverdethegreendice6893 6 месяцев назад
@@CardboardGuide Yep it is obvious that the snowball has got bigger than anyone expected in the last couple of months. I would say since september-october. But in that time I had allready preordered the items for the store so it's been like an scalation, I must admit that should I know the reception of the game I would have preordered more. Also I did get the promo cards for the booster packs but no social play kit. A revised edition is certainly a necessity in my opinion to make the player base grow and thus those valuable cards mantain their value or it will just be art dealers buying eachother pieces so the prices don't drop down. All in all a Revised edition would be great but a reprint of Beta would be even better. Meanwhile I have opened a precon deck pack so I can show the game to the community but I am cautious because I don't like getting people hyped with something they cannot purchase. And lastly the communication issue is really a problem. I have been searching just for an e-mail address to contact the company directly, or a form to fill with questions, and it has been impossible. No way of contacting them. I have tried via facebook and an e-mail address that appears but no answer....
@jamescruz5637
@jamescruz5637 9 месяцев назад
Beta seems to be around 100k+
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
I hope not, since that would be a very large first print run for any game, and it doesn’t fit the messaging from the company. We will see, still excited for Beta and even more so for Arthurian Legends! 🙌🏻
@jamescruz5637
@jamescruz5637 9 месяцев назад
@@CardboardGuide Its more of an educated guess but seeing how many boxes some stores have in stock is crazy. 80 to 100 boxes. Also, if the print run is small then you have another problem of waiting 6+ months for more. That was a huge problem this year. I don't think Erik wants that happening again as I don't see 3rd/Revised coming out till March or April. Better get as much Beta as you can lol.
@silverwolf6866
@silverwolf6866 10 месяцев назад
Printing less is ALWAYS better for a collectable game than printing more. I have no idea why this is even a question debated all the time. We have endless real world examples where overprinting has damaged or destroyed brands. There is not a single example of a brand going down due to the demand being too high and supply low. It just does not make any sense. Just because we have some people loudly crying about prices does not change reality. People who want even alpha cards will get them. Singles are cheap.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
I agree that printing less is in general a lot better for collectibility, and also that you can always print additional cards, waves, and sets, whereas printing too much can't be undone. The Alpha singles are out there and affordably, so if you are a player wanting to play the game you can do so already now and it will only be more affordable when Beta comes around and TCGPlayer will provide sellers and buyers an even easier way to do so.
@EspritFidget
@EspritFidget 10 месяцев назад
I 100% agree with them on collectability of the product. What I don't like is the way they are handling that aspect. On one hand people are litteraly buying the product by the case on Team Convenant or with Alpha Investment. On the other hand, LGS allocation may be so scarce as to threaten even the little 1-3 boxes buyers' preorders. If collectability is a big concern of EC, why not limiting the number of boxes people can buy ? And why not releasing product by waves to avoid scalpers ?
@Shishkebarbarian
@Shishkebarbarian 10 месяцев назад
literally no one is buying cases from Alpha Investment. He hasn't sold a single one and announced a month ago that the patreon sales will be limited to 2-3 boxes per package. Covenant and Alpha Investments are also internet sales so that helps propagate the product to more locations than sending a few cases to every LGS that wants them due to how LGS concentrations are the country are spread. Furthermore, Covenant hasn't confirmed any shipments or order yet. it is possible (even likely) that they will not be able to fulfill all pre-orders since they were taken before allocation was announced by Erik. I do agree that stores should begin to limit amount of boxes someone can buy. this will most certainly happen closer to release / post release after allocations and shipments are clearer to stores. Lastly, it is important to note how LGS allocations work. They do not get boxes from Eril but from their distributer. if the store has a great relationship with their Distributer (ie, spends 10s of thousands per week/month), they will get a much larger allocation than a little shop that only makes little occasional orders and all of a sudden want 10 cases of sorcery because they know they can flip each one for profit... thats not how the business works.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I think a few missteps where made when it comes to LGS’. They had a referral program and encouraged LGS’ to sign up, but it seems like they should have waited to a set with more availability. I think Rudy has stated a couple of times that he only has enough product for a small percentage of his patreons and he is selling like a couple of boxes per Sorcery kit.
@SPECHTRE
@SPECHTRE 9 месяцев назад
I knew I should have ordered sooner. Now I can't find them for sale.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
Hi there, there should still be some available on release date, November 10th, even if a lot of the preorders are closed. May I ask where you are located, to better see if I know any options closer to you that are still open?
@SPECHTRE
@SPECHTRE 9 месяцев назад
@@CardboardGuide I would shop from Portland Oregon or Seattle Washington typically.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
Did you check the store locator on SorceryTCG.com to see if you have a store close to you that is still taking preorders?
@SPECHTRE
@SPECHTRE 9 месяцев назад
No I'm am idiot and searched distribution only. Thanks.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
@@SPECHTRE I have asked in a couple of Sorcery Discord groups, and hopefully someone knows a store near you. I will get back to you. 😉
@FrankBirtwistle
@FrankBirtwistle 10 месяцев назад
I could have sworn that revised was always the plan for mass market. Maybe I misread that but it was a long time ago.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Hi there @FrankBirtwistle Even before the Kickstarter closed there had been talk of Revised for quite some time. I think that most likely Revised was already on the table back then, because the plan might have been for Alpha and Beta to be smaller print runs, and then slowly grow the game, and then Revised would be the more "mass market" or larger scale product. However, that still remains to be seen, what we do know is Beta seems to be a small(er) print run then many people within the community had thought, but hopefully it will still bring new players into the market, and we don't know the data from all stores or distributors yet. How do you feel about the situation with Beta, if it turns out to be a smaller print run, would you want the to push Revised out sooner rather than later? Thanks for checking out the video and taking the time to comment.
@FrankBirtwistle
@FrankBirtwistle 10 месяцев назад
@@CardboardGuide You can't blame them for being cautious - both in terms of protecting the value of the Alpha run and also not ending up with warehouses full of revised if things were to go awry. The people who really want to play the game rather than having FOMO will be patient...I agree the starter deck set should be reprinted thick and fast though.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I agree fully. You need an entry level product that gives affordable and easy access into the game, like the precons. From there you have enough Sites to actually play the game and you can upgrade it with singles, as we are already seeing Alpha singles at fair prices. I also think it is better to print slowly, and then go from there, as overprinting, as we have seen, can be very bad for a game. Either way, the company is treading a very difficult balance between making sure Alpha collectors don't see their cards plummet and at the same time growing the game and adding new players.
@The_Protagonist
@The_Protagonist 10 месяцев назад
I’ve never gotten the sense that they are looking at mass market. It’s always seemed like they are trying to make the best SCR they can, keep the quality of the product high and extremely collectible.
@2fluent
@2fluent 10 месяцев назад
Tell the new kids to pay up too. 😂
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Or tell the new kids that this game is unlike a lot of the others out there. ;) Alpha singles are already pretty affordable, and presumably Beta will be even accessible, and the slower growth hopefully also means that the team are thinking about the balance between accessibility and collectability, and no matter how the print run ended up, they are in an impossible situation, where someone will always end up being frustrated or disappointed.
@rom623ownsu
@rom623ownsu 6 месяцев назад
what are they talking about?! there are heaps of boxes still for sale in australia... dont print anymore.. if players want cards the singles are cheap as chips
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 6 месяцев назад
Thanks for checking out the video. This was about 3 months ago and things keeps changing and evolving. We don’t think they should print anymore boxes, Beta seems to be really good where it is and we would prefer to see them to focus on Arthurian Legends. 😉
@DecksandDraughts
@DecksandDraughts 10 месяцев назад
2:05 "Collectors will be hurt because all the value just went out of the game." This will forever be Sorcery's biggest problem. This will forever be the community's biggest problem. That's not collecting. That's investing. If you're only interested in "collecting value," which has been the problem since the start and Curiosa keeps leaning on it, that's an investible collectable, which will skew how joy is found in the product. It already has with Alpha, as the price spikes got the masses to cry "but this was for collectors, not players!" And now with Beta, what, they're saying the same now? This was supposed to be their reasoning as to why Alpha "is allowed to be as expensive as it is." Just ugh. Just...just ugh. I keep listening and there's more things I want to hit, but I covered my frustrations multiple times in a ton of different places including the community, and with the team directly, and it's clear that there is just no desire to develop a comprehensive vision, just copy exactly what Magic did (which always makes the "not trying to be the next MTG" argument funny as they literally do everything in their playbook that was done to help evolve and fine tune the product, not manipulate their market...but you do you, boo...). Thankfully, there will be plenty of aggressive...fans? Investors? "Collectors..." Yeah, "Collectors..." to ensure no matter what spaghetti Erik's Curiosa throws at the wall, all the right noodles are going to stick. Praise be, Erik's Curiosa. Praise be.
@DecksandDraughts
@DecksandDraughts 10 месяцев назад
3:01 - "Old days it was more about collecting." Ummm? Hmmm. I love ya'll, I do...but this just is not close to true. Magic, Pokemon, and Yugioh were all "trading card games," only Pokemon focusing on "collecting" proper as it was their entire brand already. Not even Decipher's Star Wars CCG follows this as the first "C" stood for Customizable. There barely were resources to track collections, the internet was just becoming a thing, and even then, few people gave two craps about "investible" value.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
I owe you a longer response, but Jens is in Athens and I am alone home with three kids, so just to let you know that I have seen the comment and want to reply. ❤️
@DecksandDraughts
@DecksandDraughts 10 месяцев назад
@@CardboardGuide Stuck home with Buffy right now, I 100% feel your pain :-) Looking forward to it, but know this video came off as uncharacteristically apologist on your part, so that's a lens I'm looking through. And you already know my feelings on Sorcery :-)
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
@@DecksandDraughts I think we wanted to provide some information, talk about our take and then add some point of critique, like we would have wanted to see a plentiful supply of precons and playmats to get people started.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
@@DecksandDraughts it might have come off like that, but in reality we also wanted say that a lot of the frustrations we are hearing right now, comes from people assuming a lot of things (us included). So another criticism is that Sorcery need to provide us with a more clear vision of how they see their product and the vision for the future. Again communication and managing expectations seems to be something they need to look at.
@hadesbox
@hadesbox 10 месяцев назад
Players cant enjoy the game if they dont have cards in their hands
@bjpoli6526
@bjpoli6526 10 месяцев назад
Révised will bé hère for that...
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
My counter would be that a lot of the Alpha cards are already very affordable and Beta will make them even more so. You can by from a couple of game stores and some great Facebook/Discord groups. When Beta releases and Sorcery is also on TCGPlayer, I think most players will be able to get the singles they want.
@savannahlion3081
@savannahlion3081 10 месяцев назад
Allocation means scarecety means prices will rise and that is not good for a starting game... 🤘🦁🤘
@savannahlion3081
@savannahlion3081 10 месяцев назад
Nice Hair Style Sofie ! 👌 💇🏼
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
We will have to see as more data comes in if this is the full picture. There has been a lot of discussion around the fact that maybe some of the smaller stores with less buying history with their distro might have gotten more severely cut, and as far as we know, we only have information from one distributor in the US.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 10 месяцев назад
Thank you, I try to wear it up because usually it wrecks havoc on the green screen overlay. :D
@The_Protagonist
@The_Protagonist 10 месяцев назад
Unless that’s the objective to keep it more collectable and more of a high value premium product…..
@savannahlion3081
@savannahlion3081 10 месяцев назад
@@The_Protagonist In my opinion, these kind of games (like Magic also) depend on play...only collecting would be too much of a niche... but the collectors AND Investors are also a big part of the "system" . 🤓
@dragon8310
@dragon8310 9 месяцев назад
Why this is a terrible investment: 1. This is a niche game which will never go mainstream due to releasing one set per year and being encouraged to be played at the kitchen table and not LGS. This is not for children and it's only being traded around by middle aged white guys wanting to feel special. They're hoping down the road there's another sucker who will buy their box at a higher price, but the higher the price, the lower liquidity and the harder to sell. When the game dies, they'll be sitting on thousands upon thousands of dollars of cardboard. 2. There are endless TCGs now, all fighting for the hobby budget. Few will leave every other hobby and only focus on Sorcery. If investors are buying up releases, like what is happening with Beta, and immediately raising secondary prices, when Sorcery finally prints adequate amounts of boxes they will fall flat. 3. This will never be as successful as Magic, not even close. Magic was the first of its kind and the gameplay is the best there is. Pokemon was backed by Nintendo and is universally loved. Sorcery has maybe a few thousand fans of which only a few hundred are die hard. 4. Where's the growth going to come from? Are new players, collectors and investors going to magically appear? This had coverage during the Kickstarter, coverage from Rudy and has many RU-vid videos. Yet you have just over 2500 fans, most who never contribute, on the biggest Facebook group. 5. Rarity and scarcity from magic and Pokemon came from people not treating them like investments. Magic and Pokemon cards were torn, scratched, burned, and thrown away which increased the value of the cards still around. Sorcery cards and boxes are being treated like Faberge eggs from the start. All scarcity is artificial. Sorcery told you what was valuable out of the gate, they didn't let the community discover and decide what was the best. I'm keeping my Alpha boxes on the shelf to remind me what a community of greedy people who only care about the financials of cardboard can do to a good idea.
@CardboardGuide
@CardboardGuide 9 месяцев назад
1. Well, first of all, I don't think we ever mentioned investing in the game at all. We talked about access to product, how to play and buy singles, and then about the communication from the company. However, what the company has been abundantly clear on is they are making a casual game that isn't necessarily meant to a be players first game, but rather the cool and fun game you can always play. I think that there are a lot of players who enjoy the gameplay and art, have you played the game yet? 2. Yes, there are a lot of TCGs, but if you look at this game, unlike a lot of the other new TCGs, it isn't trying to capture super competitive players (even though the game can be played competitively), but again aiming for a kitchen table game feel. I think the demand has shown that for now they are able to attract new players. I don't think "investors are buying up releases", sure there will be some and flippers too, but we are getting a lot of new people in the Discord groups at the moment. Everyone I know who bought Alpha, also bought Beta boxes and precons to play with friends and some to collect the Beta set as well. 3. The Sorcery team never claimed to be 'the next Magic killer', they have always talked about being a second game and we honestly don't know anything about what the playerbase will look like, the first release isn't even out yet, and it is to soon to judge the success or demise of the game. 4. The growth is already happening as I see it. People are coming into the game every day, growth doesn't need to be 'to the moon' or happen overnight. More and more people will find out about the game in their LGS and when it launches on TCGPlayer. Right now, the company haven't focused on marketing, because there was already more demand than supply, but they have the means to market more aggressively when and if they see the need to. 5. I see a ton of people playing with the Alpha cards (we will be brewing some pauper decks with our bulk this very day), and even more people will be playing with Beta. I think Sorcery did the opposite with the Curio cards, than what you are stating, and left the mystery for people to discover themselves. I haven't seen any official comments from the team about card value, however I have seen a lot of players talking about what cards are really good, and a lot of value is deriving from the cards being extremely playable, just like with any other card game, where desirable cards can become valuable. TLDR: It is early days, the first retail set doesn't release for another 3+ weeks, and we see a lot of people playing the game and stores hosting drafts and constructed events. I also think portraying the community as greedy is unjust. The people in the community are for the most part kind and generous with their time, advice, helping new players with cards, and giving away cards to help people complete sets and build decks.
@TheSchemingSkeleton
@TheSchemingSkeleton 10 месяцев назад
Beta should straight up not be a product that focuses on the collectible side. It should focus on the players. Regardless of what the company is saying. This game will be dead in a year if they try to make each new set or wave a "collectible". This is the main reason I stayed away from this game, it's so much less a "Game" and more a "Investment collectible". This isn't 2020 anymore Erik, wake up.
@Shishkebarbarian
@Shishkebarbarian 10 месяцев назад
every new set and wave will be collectable. that was the goal from the beginning. If you are interested you will secure your purchase during pre-order period at or below MSRP. Once it hits shelves and the aftermarket rallies around resale values no one needs people jumping onto the bandwagon to make free tendies. the game is a ton of fun and the cards are very collectable and awesome to look through in a binder. no one misses your absence and the community is in love with the product. it's ok if it's not for you.
@TheSchemingSkeleton
@TheSchemingSkeleton 10 месяцев назад
@@Shishkebarbarian it isn't a game if people cannot get the cards to play the game because each set is a "collectible" or investment" product.
@Shishkebarbarian
@Shishkebarbarian 10 месяцев назад
@@TheSchemingSkeleton some people can get it. Some can't. Like everything in life.
@TheSchemingSkeleton
@TheSchemingSkeleton 10 месяцев назад
@@Shishkebarbarian this could be one of the most ridiculous responses I have ever read. If they want their brand-new TCG to survive more people need to be able to get the cards to play. We are not talking about a special edition a collector's edition etc like magic the Gathering does we are talking about just physical cards to be able to play the game that is meant to be played since it is a game...
@Shishkebarbarian
@Shishkebarbarian 10 месяцев назад
@@TheSchemingSkeleton you're just butthurt. If you look past your absolutism, it's not hard to understand that a slow and consistent demand curve which reflects playerbase is more healthy than flooding the market as a knee jerk reaction to demand-hype spikes. Just look at what happened to the FaB market in 2021-2022. Sorcery is better off ramping up slowly. Like I said, it's ok if not everyone can get it and those that really want can simply pre-order, even to this moment
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