This video (was uploaded 10 years ago) has the best way to explain about feedback problems. I love the funny pictures and the hilarious way to teach the amateur like me! Thanks Jonas!
This is a fantastic tutorial. I used this to explain to someone how to fix their problems and they now get it perfectly. Thanks for creating this. VERY USEFUL.
Fantastic explanation, Jonas. Your tutorial was obviously intended for those of us who don't call ourselves "sound engineers". It is very helpful to me. Thank you!
SUPERB presentation - All meat, no fat - a GREAT roundup of core concepts! (Bonus points for being so young and delivering such polish - that was a corporate board-room quality presentation) Thanks!
Good, vid. A simple math method to spot the most likely feedback freqs: divide the speed of sound by the distance between the mic and the nearest monitor. Most often, in a open space, it's around 1.8khz.
1.8 kHz would indicate a very short distance according to your formula, about 0.6 feet (speed of sound is 1100 feet per second, divided by 0.6 feet gives 1800 Hz). I'm just trying to understand how the formula works. A monitor that is 10 feet away would resonate at 110 Hz (1100/10 = 110)? But in an open space, the distance is somehow shorter (less than one foot)? I wasn't able to find this formula elsewhere. Thanks.
Great presentation: very informative, concise, and yet pretty thorough! Thank you for taking the time to prepare this video. I didn't realize that the cardiod field expanded/condensed in direct proportion to the gain. Also, the tips to fighting feedback were insightful. I can't wait to implement the info at our church. Thanks a lot, Jonas!
Wow! There was more info packed into this vid than any other vid about this stuff that I have watched in the last 6 months! It was so clear that I didn't need to rewind to "get it." Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)
Very nice presentation. I've never really had feedback issues. I mute unused mics and cut the lows on the vocals. I love the panic as someone drops ALL the faders on the desk when they hear feedback though.
Thank you very much! This video was extremely helpful! I am a mobile dj for small bars, so naturally my speakers are close to my booth. I have been getting unwanted feedback from the mic and speakers and I didn't know what to do. This cleared up everything for me. I'm glad i don't have to go out and buy new mics or speakers now, or some gigantic mix board, just to fight feedback. THANK YOU THANK THANK YOU 1000 THANK YOUS!
"Feedback, It's very unpleasant" - Yes, it is! Thank you for demonstrating that! My neighbours really appreciate it. You could present the example at lower volume; a warning, perhaps!? I'm surprised you weren't more judicious considering the work you put in. A good video all the same
Thanks dude. I'm using nylon string guitar,harmonizer,zoom A3 w feedback suppressor. I was aimims speakers at mic. This and the room created mega problems at practice. Now I know what to do..... THANX
A nice clear video, thanks Jonas. I am retired and as a former pro guitarist thyis business was always done for us so in effect apart from one or two things its fresh info. Well Done.
Lol, can this guy make all the videos about live sound on RU-vid please, like give him a monopoly on it, he deserves it for this superb video, I learned a great deal and I've been gigging in tight spaces all my life, always battled with feedback even now after like 15 years of doing it. The video taught me a lot and I'm going to try theses things at my next gig. Because tonight I had this massive runaway rumble during one of the songs , I'm not sure weather is was the microphone or the guitar but it was so bad a actually had to stop the song and turn the mixer down, luckily it was towards the end of the song and I pretty much got away with it with a sympathetic o you fu×ed it up clap, lol.
O ye, I forgot to say, I was standing right at the back of the room as well with my back against the wall, that didn't occur to me something I learnedin your video, because I'm an idiot, who can't be arsed practicing with his full pa at home, but i should realy, but you cant make nosie as my house, so have to learn on the job, which in this instance isn't a very good place to learn because you're under pressure 😀
There is no mention, but I think a short delay will works also. By using the short delay is synonymous with extending the distance between the microphone and the monitor speaker.
Thanks, good tutorial. Last week I experimented with my Bose S1 Pro which I use with a Shure SM58. I found that IF I TURNED THE BASS WAY UP, THE FEEDBACK GOT SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE. Most people on stage only have access to Treble, Mid and Bass; (the S1 Pro only has bass and treble) so I guess they have to fiddle around and find out which frequencies are making feedback worse.
I looked and didn't see anymore vids from you like this one. I'm shocked! You are a fantastic instructor! You should really make more, more, more! Please:)
FYI: most analog 1/3 octave EQs have octave-wide filters centered every 1/3 octave. So, you're not cutting or boosting only 4 notes, you're cutting/boosting up to 12 notes. If you cut a graphic at 1k, it will affect down to 500 Hz and up to 2k. Some digital EQs allow you to set how wide the filter is, but most start with a default of an octave wide. Depends on the hardware/software.
Just as important, if not more so to reducing feedback is mic technique. Keeping the mic very close to the source allows you to keep the input gain down which will reduce the chance of getting feedback. I had a retirement home client that was experiencing feedback in their dining hall. It didn't help that the speakers were in the ceiling. I trained the staff to hold the cardioid mic level with the ground and almost touching their mouth. I turned the gain down on the mixer and the problem disappeared.
That's great info! Most hardware EQ's have a fairly wide Q (width), and they do effect more than just the fundamental 4 notes... sometimes dramatically so. Thanks! Jonas
Excellent video man, very informative. Just as a side note, compressors don't make quiet sounds loud, they only do that in the sense that you are using makeup gain. And after you have set the levels of the compressor, I don't think you would ring out a room with your band still playing. Compressors can be troublesome with feedback, but more than likely would be when you have to go back to it and adjust the settings after you have rung out the room. Still though, great video.
Wow, thanks! I thought he was poorly cast as Spiderman, but I appreciate the compliment! I'm glad you benefitted from the video. Good luck and God bless!
You already mentioned it's not an all-inclusive tutorial, but I think people who are watching this can be helped a lot with a practical approach. So I have decided to give this a try - at least in the way I should do it. Please comment! In the right order: 1. When you set up the sound system in a new room with unknown acoustics, first "beep out" the feedback frequencies. Put a reference microphone on a stand on the stage, and crank it up carefully over the PA until you can hear some feedback. Search the frequency and suppress it. Now push it further and you will probably notice another frequency will give you feedback. Repeat until you're done. (B.tw. the reference mic is not some fancy microphone, just use one you need for vocals and put it on the spot they're going to use it) 2. Do the same with EQ-ing your monitors. 3. Let (for example) a vocalist sing and try to figure out at what main frequency his or her voice acts. When you have a parametric EQ: boost the mid heavily and go sweeping until you hear where the most amplification is. Compare the voice with and without amplifying it to give it a natural sound. You might turn the gain a bit down now - don't exegerate. Now, take the rest out. It will prevent "bleeding" and thus feedback. Bleeding happens when a microphone picks up sound from other sources which are in the direct vicinity. You can not prevent it, but you can reduce it - also by good placing of the mics to other sources and eventually shifting the phase. Be careful though not to take too much out, because you will end up listening to a singer singing in a tin can.... Of course you can do this with everything you mic, not just vocals. That's about it for now :). Have a good gig!
My philosophy is the same as yours... I shoot for 0 db on the LED's and go from there. It is OK for the meters to jump past that - in the sense that if it spikes once or twice, it's unlikely to cause any permanent damage to your gear. I still try to avoid it, better safe than sorry. Live sound is an unpredictable field, it helps to know the rules and then be ready to break them if the situation calls for it (especially with human vocalists... the most unpredictable!). Hope this helps!
Jonas you're very good at replying to comments , I used to habe a friend called Jonas , he was a nice guy. Also my cousins surname is Anderson, my uncle tels me it is of Swedish origin. So ye, love your name too, was Jonas I'm the bible or something, lol, don't get me started on that, I've been listening to the audio book version, did like 3 books, got bored. 😅
thanks a lot.... I've actually got a couple cued up and haven't gotten around to narrating and uploading them yet. I'm out of school for the summer, and they're now on my "to-do" list. Thanks again! jonas
are the speakers movable? I think one main thing he missed, is very important in basic PA setup, is speaker placement. and I see people mess this up all the time. there should be a shear line, where the speakers fire away into the crowd, and the microphone should never be in front of them. People want to stick the speakers at the back of the stage for aesthetics, but they wind up firing direct into the mic. make sure your mic doesn't pass the invisible line directly between the speakers.
Wireless mics give you fits. A performer does a hair flip and the wireless mic is 2" from the monitor followed by a high pitched feedback squeal. A performer runs around the stage with a wireless then goes out into the audience in front of the FOH speakers and you get squeal. The sound person gets the blame but in truth it was caused by the performer. You set a gate in the mic and the performer gets mad because they can't scream into the PA. The performer decided to whisper and nothing comes out because the noise gate is closed. Lol. You can teach all you want but the real learning comes with experience.
1. Pre-amp gain does not change the "size" of the polar pattern. This is a common mis- representation. 2. GEQ is for tone shaping. PEQ is for "surgical" adjustments. 3. FBX units are not a cure-all and when you understand how they work you won't need them. 4. Never, NEVER use compression in monitors. The best way to decrease the chance of feedback is to use learn how to position, aim and process your PA speaker system. Anything else will be in the realm of surgical dressing for what should have been preventable wounds.
Really nice vid and perfect lecture. :-) I may commit that churches are really strong school and exam for this kind of issues. I totally agree with your hints but except one (naturally) ^^ In my humble opinion Gates are illusive and trappy helpers against feedback, at least under multi-mic conditions. As long as the gate(s) is/are closed, all is fine. Open mic (at least opened gate) by speaker, singer, instrument or anything else, if forcing feedback, will raise the overall volume at the venue to volumes that will open the other gates too! So... once opened, all that channels will provide additional level to the feedback loop. This is true not only for the same frequencies as the already upcoming feedback freq, but for all others too. Caused by (at least) the same ground noise (whatever characteristics) every open mic spends into the chain. Even critical when each of that mics has been safe under feedback level, but the sum may step over the feedback threshold! For years i've seen astonished FOH engineers in such situations, where a single feedback comes slightly up, and with each tens of a seconds it's getting more and more worse due to the further opening of gated mics on the same stage. So - even in old churches (like we have in g'old europe *haha*) - doing faders by hand in critical sections (talk, interview, panel and board discussion, theater play or whatever) is still the best feedback control by lowering all mics by hand that are not needed at the moment. Just doing -8 dB or less per channel will save ears. Even if feedback occurs on one channel it can't raise the faders on channels closeby. :-D Many greets from Germany! :-)
To clarify this: The post above just and only relates to the term "using gates against feedback". - in reality i'm great fan of gates and (smart driven) compressors. Gates keep the mix clean and straight! **thumbsup**
Timo Heinrich do they have mutes on the channels? You can shut those mics off you don't need, or just any effects while they're talking, too, on the returns.
I agree. It's the least effective thing a person can do... like turning the car off after accidentally grinding the gears. Muting the unused mics is a great way to reduce the overall noise floor, and most vocalists don't have voices that go down to 80-100hz, so dropping the lows is another great way to manage your live mics. thanks for watching!
Great video! Can you explain how each slider is 4 notes on a piano? An 88 key piano starts at roughly 26 Hz and goes up to 4.2 KHz. So to EQ a piano with a 31 band EQ would you only use 25 Hz up to 4KHz? This would give you 23 (or 22) bands you could use for the piano. 88 divide by 22 = 4. Thank you!
there are a couple of in-line things called "feedback eliminators" made by Behringer or Sabine. I would recommend trying one and see if it works for your situation. I haven't used any feedback busting software yet. In a single mic situation, spend a little time with a feedback eliminator. Also, don't discount mic placement (closer to the mouth or throat) and speaker placement (try to point them away or at an angle). You might also want to check out the mic pattern. I have a mic vid that may help
Some sound guys try to really max the gain level right at the edge of clipping , You can get away with this depending on you gear's over all capacity however I alway give myself a little gap just before clipping by allowing the meter to ride slightly into the yellow zone. If I hear any distortion in the speakers then I will back down on the gain. and try going up at the fader instead 0db is the safest though.
for some musicians to put there mike stand at a distance maybe 80 cm or 120cm would be much better than put it on the wedge try to show them the gain in term of quality,for me it`is more a question of EGO than earing,try also toput only one wedge with 2 12" bass speakers it`2 times more efficient than 2 wedges where is really a hasard if you find the right angle and distance.and if you do that don`forget that our brain listen sounds after our left ear,wich means you have to work in stereo and put a delay(sorry it`s something like 3 or 5 milliseconds ,i don`T remember.........iknow when you are the leader of a band you think you are riddicoulus wiith nonly one wedge.explain to the other musicians thath`s better for every body excpt if they play on differrent placres on stage.And the last thing ask to the keyboard player if he absolutely need to have 2 di boxes to send the same sound on lft and right! GOOD NEXT SHOWS!
that's what I always thought, but....my good friend got a job running sound with the biggest p.a. company in our hometown. He had been working for months before I came to check him out and when I looked at the board the peak lights were blinking all over the place!! When I asked about that he told me that's fine as long as there are not on constantly. Honestly, I think it depends on the board and you just have to read the manual because my Mackie board says it's a no-no.
Brian Warner stupid question: when you have a serious problem, what do you do?? HTH can you tell what channel it's on if half the board's goimg nuts??? Doh! lol.
This is what I deal with all the time in church. I handle all sound and play the piano as well (no one to do it plus I'm inexperienced) so I have the singers constantly telling me to turn this person's mic up or someone else's mic up and there is a whole lot of feedback going on. I would love to improve so I won't have to deal with that problem anymore
That's the whole reason I did this. I worked at a music store and was constantly heading from churches about feedback issues. Good luck! I hope this video helped.
In my opinion it's not a matter of turning up everything all the time. You get a sort of battle of volumes then... you can also think of leaving some information out on certain monitor channels, like instruments a singer doesn't need to sing properly. Or just start all over at lower overall volume. When you have multiple singers you could also try shift the phase of some mics. Most panels do have a button for this next to the gain.
Thank you lol I have a small jam room in my basement and I could never hear the vocals because if I turned them up bam feedback! I turned down the eq and like magic it worked! see I'm not a sound man lol
Hey Mahcsm, in my experience, once you find the feedback, using a sweepable EQ from your board (if it has one) or an outboard EQ is the most effective way of getting rid of it. The XTI's are wonderful amps, but real-time feedback isn't really one of their strong points. I hope this helps! Jonas
the video was done with the built in mic on my computer. those mics are typically not known for high fidelity :) I hope it didn't take too much away from the content of the information.
@Ryanincambonia 1) make sure you are not "cupping" the mic- this will almost always cause feedback 2) make sure your mic trim is not too hot....put your channel into "solo" and shout "HEY!" ..the mixers meters will show your level- if it is going into the red or close, turn the trim for your mic DOWN. 3) your speaker/amp combo may just be too modest. get a more powerful system. And tell your band to turn down! 4) if none of this helps, get in-ear monitors :)
It wasn't mentioned, but you forgot the problem with using crappy gear. I don't get feedback much, but the OLD JBL monitors are WAY less tinny, so less feedback, warmer sound. You can get all the bass and drums in without needing subs most of the time. Reverb units can be problematic without a compressor first. I've also NEVER been able to get a headset to work right at my house, and neither could my Columbia professor. It was Sennheiser, too. Could also turn down from the trim at the top, NOT from the fader, because the signal runs top down.
It’s not the mic doing it for me. Trying to find out why I’m getting feed back. The mike doesn’t give me feed back. I wonder if the speakers is to close together. I’m getting it when my PC goes into the mixer only. And only at high volumes
thanks it helped understand alot but my problrm is not while speaking its as soon as i turn the pa system on or the channels for my condenser mics, we used it before not a problem now bigger room and diffrent cables and as soon as i turn it on its an instant loud mid tone the gain has to be turned way low but then i run into very little pick up any sugestions..
Thank you for this. We've been getting feedback in a small size room setting lately. We have no sound person, in this setting, so the band is responsible for adjusting the sound. I noticed it occurs when I hit low notes on the bass. But it seems like it is related to what the mics are picking up from the low bass notes. Now I realize that the EQ for the mics is probably adjusted heavy on the bass side (which is totally not needed). We also have a speaker placement problem, but we are not allowed to adjust the speakers at this point (It is a single speaker and sub behind the band). So I have a quick question about trim. (Being not a sound guy, I am a little foggy about what this is)... Basically, you are saying that trim expands the "balloon" around the mic, so it picks up sound from farther away? So should we be setting the trim to the bare minimum that the singer needs to be heard? What is the standard advice on this? Thank you so much for the video. It was most helpful.
Thank you for this video...question for you. I'm new to working the soundboard and we've experience the low sweeling (woooowooo) type feedback, not the high pitched one like in this video. What's the cause of this type of feedback?
compression does not make anything louder. compressors squish/compress the opposing sound. another words it allows one sound to duck under another to allow those frequencies to be more present in the mix. example... when the kick drum hits, you want your bass to kind of quiet down to give the kick more presence. The kick does not become louder, It is still at the same Db.
Great info! Thank you! I'm experiencing feedback issues with my New DPA 4099g mic, I'm going straight to my AER amp using a mic cable to the mic channel, I also was hoping to use my Fishman EQ pedal using a mic to 1/4" cable (stereo type) and also the same going out to the regular guitar input on my amp, which in this case gives me more options with EQ, but for some reason I'm not getting any signal using these cables, I have a feeling that I maybe using the wrong type of cables. My EQ pedal is also phantom powered and can be used as a DI. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Mehdi
Toquelibre curious about something, you didn't buy speaker cable, did you? It's fatter than unbalanced guitar cables. Unbalanced cables (for guitars/bass) has one stripe on the plug. Balances cables, used for keyboards and electronic drums, have two stripes. I seem to recall grabbing the speaker cable for guitars. THAT made a HORRIBLE sound as you describe. This is why you turn your trim (the knob at the top) down before you do anything! Don't do that at the faders, the sliders at the bottom, because the signal runs from the top of the mixer down, time your feedback loop will get notably louder.
The video is a great packed lesson against feedback. Apart from the definition of feedback (I find it a bit simplistic and questionable) For me it is interesting your video because I work WITH feedback.
I loved the video, but what is it that you did exactly to help you with the feedback. I am in the same boat... I do everything I can with Speaker Placement and I love my setup,, would hate to add unnecessary equipment. Did you get an EQ, Feedback Suppressor?? My CrownXTIs have DSP/EQ, but hard to use in real time to eliminate feedback... Thx
Wish you would of covered board channel eq. Pre and post eq. How board channel eq affects the monitors with most analog mixing boards and digital you can change pre and post via built in adjustments. However all n all good.
you lost me right out of the gate with the feedback! A warning would have been smart. The level was so low I had turned it up in my ear buds..........ouch!!
