NOTE: This video is not meant to convince you to buy a pro level recorder/mixer when you aren't making a living as a location sound mixer. Just an explanation for why full-time location sound mixers buy gear like this. In other words, for them, it makes perfect sense to spend $3300 on a recorder like this. For someone making RU-vid videos or short films for fun as a hobby, probably does not make sense.
Curtis Judd I’ve been making a living as a location mixer with an F8. So far it hasn’t been a problem. When would you say is a good time to upgrade? I don’t want to be caught with my pants down so to say.
@@huckwalton2307 I think a good time is when you have enough paid jobs to pay for the mixer without affecting your ability to pay for all of your other expenses. I don't advocate going into debt for this in 99.9% of cases. Best to start with the F8 like you and grow until the jobs pay for the gear.
Curtis Judd thank you. That’s kind of how I felt, but there are times when a client sends a curve ball your way. Appreciate the advice, and your fast response. You’re the best!
I’ve used the SoundDevices 302 for years. Best piece of equipment I ever purchased. It’s 10 years old, field tested in severe situations and worth every penny spent. I love it!
Excellent video Curtis. I may never need to actually own one of these, but I watched the video from start to finish just for educational value and understanding of what is looked for in a pro level recorder/mixer. Cheers, Joe
Yay, real gear! Seriously, you do such nice reviews. I love that you pointed out the real differences here, such as most of the signal can be "handled" before it hits digital world, and the quality of the device itself. Thanks for doing what you do.
Love your review. I've used both Zoom F8 and I own a Tascam dr-70d and while they are excellent on small indie tasks, they have some very serious problems when you are doing bigger gigs. Power is probably one of the biggest concerns and I've had critical situations in this respect. A Sounddevice is, just for that reason ALONE, a much more safe choice for any proffessional that cannot delay the wole set for more than a minute.
Excellent explanation, especially about the significance of analog limiting and filtering before the preamps. I've been looking at various SD mixer/recorders vs the Zooms (currently using a Tascam DR40 and the preamps on my SonyFS100) and this video will help me make my final choice. I just started using a Blackmagic Design ATEM Production Studio and Hyperdeck recorder, and the fan noise has been giving me fits in post production. I was about to move everything into another room and run 30' SDI cables, but that is very inconvenient on the road. If I can filter out the fan noise effectively before the preamps, that would save me a lot of time and improve the audio quality, too. That alone would justify a SD purchase if the Zoom F8 doesn't have a similar capability.
Thanks. The high pass filter may help a bit with fan noise, but will not totally eliminate that given that it is a broadband sound source. You'll still want to look at ways to separate the fan noise from the area you're miking. A sound or packing blanket between the set and position of the ATEM should help a fair bit. Best wishes!
I'm in process of buying now. I have a MixPre 6, which I like, especially the preamps. Are the 633 preamps the same as MP6 or are MP6 preamps better? I see you use a Anton Bauer Digital 90 battery in your bag. That's how I power my MP6- what bag are you using? I live in rural Massachusetts and there are no sound people in the area and film work is getting popular. I hope my sound gear investment pays off. I am also getting a Schoeps CMC641 Set. I can't afford to add a Schoeps shotgun, but my NGT3 should keep me going a year- or do you recommend a CMT 5U over the 641? Thanks- Leo
Hi Leo, the 633's preamps are better in my opinion. I use the Orca OR-30 bag: bhpho.to/2BfQ3Wh Your NTG3 should serve you fine. I'd rather have a CMC641 and NTG3 than just a CMIT5U but I do a lot of indoor shooting. Good luck!
If you are starting out or on a budget and you are wondering whether you should invest in something like this or mics. Choose mics, they make way more of a difference. The sound quality is up to par on lower end recorders like the Zoom H6 or F4 and F8. I know a lot of pros that work with very low end stuff, but they alway have great mics. Later when you have more money, invest in a Sound Devices recorder.
Good advice. I like to say, invest in the end of the signal chain first. Those are the parts that last the longest. That includes microphones for recording, near field monitors for post work, and lenses for cameras. Thanks!
Hi Curtis! First of all I want to say I'm very grateful for all of your videos and amazing work that you do for the community. RU-vid is blessed to have you. 🙏 I'm hoping you can shed some light on my situation for me. I've been recording with a Tascam DR60D MK1 and a Audio Technica 897 mic and also a Shure SM7B. There's a little bit of hiss with the 897, but I could still produce good audio that my audience enjoyed. The SM7B pushed my recorder to the limit (never used a cloud lifter) but I was still able to produce some good audio with some EQing. I'm now changing things up and I'm working/recording in a big open room with some reverb, so I bought the Sennheiser MKH50 to deal with the untreated room. Now here's where things gets interesting. The MKH50 produces super clean audio with the Tascam DR60D MK1. I also bought a Sound Devices 633 and when I compare the audio of the Tascam with the 633 using the MKH50 it's almost a coin flip. They both sound super good. However, when it comes to the SM7B the 633 is way better than the Tascam. My question for you is, are microphones more important than recorder/mixers and I should prioritize mics over recorder/mixers? Is there anything I'm doing wrong with the 633? Like maybe I'm only using $20 worth of the mixer which is netting me the same results as the Tascam? Your knowledge and expertise is greatly appreciated. Thank you. John
Everything in an audio signal chain impacts audio quality (at least up through the analogue to digital converters). In order of impact: 1) microphone (and position of mic, and characteristics of recording space) 2) preamp/recorder/mixer/audio interface 3) audio cables.
Great video Curtis! Thanks for the explanation! I create content on RU-vid and like to see what the next level brings to the table. I agree this might be extreme overkill for what I do but it was good to see why the price is so much higher. Thanks for the great work
+TechExamined Thanks for the feedback! I had serious reservations about even talking about a piece of gear like this but then realized, hey, everyone else probably also wants to know why these things are so pricey so why not talk about that?
Thanks for the video Curtis! I'm incredibly interested in getting more into production sound recording. My main focus has been in live sound and studio recording, although I've worked as an intern in post-houses in the past. I have a few questions about recorders and mixers. First, is there any advantage to using a dedicated recorder like the 702T rather than a recorder with a built in mixer like the 633? Is the 633 used in situations where there is no dedicated production sound mixer (ie the boom op is doing both jobs). And lastly, is having a mixer absolutely necessary? Couldn't I use something like a 702T and monitor a "master" output for both channels? Thanks again!
Hi Ragin, Good question. I think it depends on how much mixing vs just recording you'll be doing during the production and whether you have a dedicated mixer vs "guy that does all the sound" and how the mixer prefers to work. Some mixers prefer to work with a control surface at a cart and use one of the 7xx series recorders post mixing board. Others prefer an all-in-one solution to which you can also add a mixing surface if you wanted (6xx series mixer/recorders). I went for the 633 since I'm usually working as the one and only sound guy. I guess in the end, the 6xx series mixers seem to do everything the 7xx series recorders do plus provide controls a little better suited to mixing. I don't believe that Sound Devices have updated the 7xx series recorders in quite some time which speaks to their quality, but possibly also to the possibility that they will discontinue them at some point, considering the availability of the 6xx mixers.
Oh, Great... I bought the Zoom F8 because of your review, and now I have to throw it away... ABSOLUTELY KIDDING!!!! You did a great job at pointing out the F8's limitations and concerns - it's the most I, as a "prosumer" who has to sometimes use multiple mics beyond the 2 on camera mics, would want to spend. Nice review, but the SD 633 is way beyond what I could/would afford to use with my C100 MkII. If you're trying to support/encourage prosumers, maybe some additional material on making the best use of affordable gear? A fine line, I'm sure, between going for "cheap as possible" (which I am not), and good quality, usable gear... I DO like the F8, though, even with its limitations - WAY beyond what I've had before (H4n, or just using on-board mic inputs). Thanks for the helpful reviews! ;-)
+Lawrence Becker Haha! Thanks Lawrence. Yes, we don't intend to make this channel all about $3000 pieces of gear and higher, was just hoping to answer a question I've received several times: Why does Sound Devices charge SO MUCH for their recorders and mixers? My goal is to focus on developing the skills to make any gear produce the best possible results. Thanks again!
Hi, i have a question, i am new at sound recording, so my question is if i want other people like the director or the script supervisor to listen what i am listening when recording on set, what do i have to use. I have a tascam dr680 but i don't know how to send audio to another people without using a huge amplifier. I am sorry if my english is confusing i am from Argentina, i hope you can help me.
Great review! The Sound Devices 633 is no longer available. The new model appear to be the Sound Devices 833. It costs $4,770.00, so it is a VERY expensive sound recorder. I am curious, as far as musical sound recordings, does this recorder really record higher quality audio channels than say the Zoom F8n or the Zoom F6? Is there really $3500.00 difference in the quality of the sound recordings your get?
The Sound Devices 6xx and 8xx series recorders are purpose build for video and film production. You *could* use them for recording music, but that isn't their primary use case. And it isn't just about how the preamps sound. The 833, for example has a bunch of features and outputs that make it a good choice for working on film or video sets.
Ho Curtis, You've doen a lot of videos contrasting Prosumer vs Pro gear. Clearly the Scorpio, 833 and 633 are very high end pro gear. I'm confused about why Sound devices lists the Scorpio and 833 as a Recorder-Mixer, but lists the 633 as a Mixer with built in Recorder. Can you tell me what the difference is? they give no explanation or comparison. what is the actual difference between a Recorder-Mixer, and a Mixer with Built in Recorder? (EG: the 833 vs the 633.
I don't know for sure, but my sense is that back in the day when the 633 was first introduced, Sound Devices was famous for their 7xx series recorders which did not have as many mixing features. So they introduced the 6xx series as mixers with build-in recorders. In fact, the 664, I believe, only records a stereo mix, not the isolated channels in addition. The 8xx series are designed from the ground up as both isolated channel recorders and mixers in the fullest sense on both fronts.
Much more sophisticated routing, processing power to run add-on plugins for things like noise reduction, a new interface for an add-on wireless receiver slot system, 3 additional microphone inputs, and more. In-depth video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3C4CJmwXK2g.html
Hi Curtis, I'm a newbie and am wondering if there is a reason why a professional mixer/recorder would become obsolete after some time. Is it a situation of a one time investment, rather than periodic upgrades to prosumer recorders? It would seem to justify the price difference if it's a one-and-done purchase. Thanks in advance.
Possibly, but for most pros, they'll still need to upgrade periodically because they use these tools often. The tools get used and beat up and eventually need to be repaired and at some point, as new features become available in newer devices that will help them deliver the right quality product to their clients, they'll upgrade. But then again, if one has simple needs, then a Zoom H4n Pro may be all the recorder that person ever needs.
Nice review curtis. Curtis is it possible if you do a review with the sound devices mm1 couple together with a recorder like the zoom h6. It will be greatly appreciated.
Yes, but there's a pretty in-depth set of additional information. First, since the 633 only has three microphone preamps, you'll need to feed the G3 receivers into the line inputs. This requires an adapter cable. Then there are two types of noise. One is self-noise of the mics, wireless systems, preamps, and even line level inputs. The 633 is very quiet in terms of self noise, so it won't be a significant contributor to the overall noise floor. But the G3s will contribute a little. The boom mics will also contribute a little but not anything to worry about. Then there's the ambient noise that can build up when you have fours open mics. So to keep the ambient noise to a minimum, you either need to pull the fader back on the mics that are not in use at any given time during the shoot and then back up when they are being used. Or do a similar type of thing in post. But in short, the 633 has very, very clean preamps and line inputs so it would not be something to worry about on that front.
Hello sir I'm unable to record separate tracks while shooting with multiple mics they all come mixed in single file how to get them as different files for different Chanels. I hope you will read this thanx.
You'll need to arm each of the individual channels so that they are each recorded to an isolated track within the wav file. See the manual which you can download from Sound Devices for details.
I watch a lot of your videos. I think you and your brother are a lot like me but a little more advanced. I will subscribe to your channel but there is one question about audio and 1 about the video DSLR vs Camcorder style shooting. 1st the audio. I do not have an audio person on staff. But it does seem there is quite a bit of low end added to RU-vid videos once uploaded. However, when you filter the low end out...You have to add it in. Any advice? I know do 2..right? You bothe said you were using the G3 lavs..But where were they pinned? I just bought a Sony FS7 with Kit and Metabones EF adapter. It works great for run and gun. And for those occasions when my customer does not want DSLR. However, it's ergonomics is awful! The XLR inputs are recessed and you have to purchase a mic cable with a short Ferrel or Barrel to get it to fit. How crazy! But I like the XDQ cards... Fast! I am telling you this because I watched the video of you and your brother in a hotel room on a remote location shoot. THanks again for your knowledge.Chat Conversation End Type a message...
Hi Donnie, I'm not sure I understand your question about bass. I am not aware that RU-vid adds bass unless perhaps one uses the "Audio enhancement" feature (which I do not use). The lavalier microphones were both taped to our chests under our shirts. Thanks for the info on the Sony FS-7. I recently bought the Blackmagic Design Ursa Mini Pro and am working to become familiar with it. Thanks!
Im using a canon t3i dslr and im wanting to record the dJ audio clear while im recording video when i do that now it sounds distorted on my camera is there a way to do thid with a wireless set up .great tutorial but i need your help on my set up.thanks
Are you taking a feed from the DJ mixing board? The main thing is you’ll need to match the output level to the input level on the camera so it doesn’t distort.
Try and review a Nagra Seven one day. I hear it’s a lovely machine. Besides that I just brought a used 633 on eBay thanks to your review, so thank you sir. I plan to record cooking videos for RU-vid haha, but I’m a bit of a recording nerd (collecting analog Nagras, mainly 😊)
Hi Kevin, I assume you mean optical digital in/outs? None of the Zoom F series or Sound Devices MixPre do. I think most have moved to AES digital now which can be sent via balanced microphone cables. The Sound Devices 6xx series mixer/recorders support AES42 in and out.
The 833 is the current generation Sound Devices mixer/recorder and most would consider it a better tool for production sound. But if you’re not building a career in production or location sound, the F8n Pro makes great recordings. It just doesn’t have some of the flexibility or the repairability that you’ll get with an 833.
Hi Chris! Keep up the good work! Just a couple of thoughts as a feedback, from a mildly experienced field recordist: the 6 series, and the 633 has the following issues wich bothers me: usb port right there: once you plug it in, its tricky to open the media door (you can actually take that door away though). INCREDIBLY low quality slate mic (thisone I dont get, just compare it to the f8, and you'll see what I mean). The menu itself for me is sometimes not that logical, it might be a personal preference. Lets swap to the 664, nighmare, can rout only ch1 and 6 prefader to the aux buses, i had it frozen several times, when using it with a cl12, and so on. Now, cl12 is also 3 times the price as a zoom f8 (not mentioning it's controll), and it has several ergonomical issues (position of the rec button, the turn know is not very discrete, etc). Also, how the fuck they imagines to power it through a micro usb is beyond my thinking.... Other advantages the zoom has for me is channel selection, is so clear to select a channel there for recording, I made the mistake of mixing in, but not recording channels by accident with the 664, where as the zoom makes it kind of impossible (this is both and advantege and disadvantage as well, but I would rather record useless channels (if I have to have a feedback channel, or something like that), than to forget to record an iso for a lav, because I forgot to arm it. I guess its only problem for the dumb.... Now I'm not saying, sound devices is bad, I undestand the analogue quality to be an issue (althoug on a production, almoust everything you put in an imput is already went through a limiter outside of the recorder, cause we all use wireless 99% of the time) and I belive that they spent a lot on being relyable in various conditions (although I heard zoom is doing pretty well on that as well), but I get so annoyed buy some of their issues (like the slate mic quality) in this price range. The 633 can have 6 inputs, but only 3 preamps, and it's probably more than 3 times more than an f8, which provides you with 8 inputs. And the f series knows more or less everything you need on a professional shoot. The 6 series is an old gem though, hard to compare, but in order to compete with zoom, they made the mixpre series, wich is another joke (still more expensive with fewer inputs, and having issues like recording only to one media!!! nighmare) Of course, if you have a big production, with more than 4 output needs, and a lot of inputs, your small zoom wont be enough, but that is again a completely different legue. You have a mixer console to add, you have metadata, you have TC, slate mic, an adroid app, can attache a keyboard.... We could point out a few things not very good (small knobs, or the quality of the dig. limiters), but considering they're practically for free, the zoom f8 is really covering your bases. And in my opinion zoom listens to what the customer wants much more than SD. They seem much more practical for me. And if you're a big dog, and have money, from what I heard, I would much more consider the zax system to buy, than putting together SD 688, or even the scorpio, with some lectros.... I dont know why I'm against SD so much, but I feel they're a bit outdated, and people cheerish them for the memories from 10-20 years ago. Now you have much better options. In my humble opinion....
@@curtisjudd Sure Curtis (sorry, I said Chris before, slip of a tongue!), I'm not saying Sound devices is not good at all. I'm only saying, the 6 and 7 series is a bit outdated, and that zoom brought a very strong thing in the game, and it also pushed SD to develop better. For the money, the zoom offers incredible staff, much more convincing to me, that SD-s. Obviously, I have higher expectations, for 5 times the price... What I mentioned, the zaxcom with all the featurer, that is again a different game, the integrity is incredible. Almost had the chance to work on that recently :D With these having said, I just bought a 744t, but it almost didnt cost me anything, so like that it's okay :D
Thanks Curtis for sharing your observations. I didn't understand the real differences between the Sound Devices 633 and consumers products before watching this video. When your living in on the line I don't think there is any doubt as to what unit you would choose.
Thanks Gary. I was curious about the differences for a long time as well. This weekend I was the location mixer for a short film and found the 633 made my job a fair bit easier.
Yes I caught up with your comments on the Saturday job. Bit of an adventure filming in the bathroom. My wife hates those scenes in movies. It's a man thing she says.
Judd thank u for the video. its en-lighting. could you please share a video or document link which demonstrates how to set 633 with Arri alexa studio camera with timecode sync for video and audio.thank you
Holy buckets... and I thought the F8 was a bunch. I was thinking of upgrading to the F8, I currently have the TASCAM DR-70D for video work. I might have to rent one of these to give it a try sometime. Great vid, as always, Curtis!
I think I'm still gonna be on the DR-70D for a little while, if I'm upgrading things I think i'll be putting it elsewhere for now - it sure is fun to dream though!
Hey, Thanks for making videos covering prosumer/professional equipment as well as the consumer stuff. Seeing the differences in the devices is incredibly interesting. Would you mind doing a video covering how to set up sound recording equipment and what types of settings we should look to change? I recently needed to purchase a recorder (ended up with the DR-60Dmkii) for some videos I will be shooting and would love a professionals opinions on what settings should be (or at least an explanation of what the settings accomplish even if they shouldn't be changed from stock).
+John Coffey Yes, in fact we just covered this last week in our Sound for Video session associated with my sound course which you can watch here for free: plus.google.com/b/113032879696266987155/events/cjjes5ocd5gs833meuda2ae0dng And we'll cover this again here in the future.
I have a DR-60 D and the Dr_60Mk3.....(also 3 H1's).i have a Rode Blimp/boom along with the NTG-2 and the Rode stereo mic. Watching your ,(imho) well done videos is giving me the courage to 'get out there' and see if i could help someone with sound for film/video.Heck .....i'm not even that far from Woodstock NY, where there is the Film Board. I like doing filming as well ......but ,i feel encouraged ,as this might be a way to get my feet in the proverbial door.(?)
The 633.For those who may be disheartened by the price of this great piece of kit, there is a less expensive option by Sound Devices, at a price of around £800, the Mix Pre D. It offers fantastic low noise preamps, line out to your camera, tape return to allow you to monitor the audio your camera is hearing, XLR outputs with sorted sound to connect to a Zoom/Tascam/etc for backup or dual capture. Also, 2 pro level XLRs in and out, 80 and 120htz limiters at the front of the process. Its compact and built like a tank. Its versatility is best exploited with cameras supporting Mic input and headphone input. Like the awesome GH4.
Superb videos! Love the Sound Devices gear but way over the top for my needs. I needed something mainly that could capture line level stuff and sounded very good. In the end I went for a DR-100 mkIII and mostly happy with it.
Sound Devices just did some magic... they added full MixAssist and Dugan Automix to the latest firmware release v4.50 for the 633! This is a big surprise because prior queries about auto mixing in the 633 were rebuffed with 'can't be done, not enough processor in the 633 for that'. I have the new firmware and auto mixing works really well. This upgrade is no charge as usual even though it adds a previously unavailable highly valuable feature worth hundreds of dollars if not thousands if purchased separately as an outboard unit.
This is a very good and useful review Curtis. We bought a Zoom F8 for wildlife recording. I like its functionallity but I'm not that happy with the sound that I think is quite harsh. Especially insects and brighter birds are not sounding as pleasant as I would like. Our plan is to probably upgrade 633.
Hi Curtis, As a sound recordist and teacher working with pro gear I watched this video with great interest. I also enjoy the clear way you express yourself without repetition. I have to say you absolutely nailed all the reasons why pros are prepared to pay more for reliability, longevity and quality in a product. The SD633 and its siblings are outstanding products for professionals. It's not only the product, its the spares and servicing and quick response from the support when you have a question or an issue. We run 8 of them and after two years of student abuse are confident we made a good choice. Other fine recording equipment is available of course and YMMV.
Thanks Cameron. I appreciate the feedback and the confirmation of your experience. Now that I'm 18 months in, I have no regrets spending the money for the 633. Its a great, solid, reliable tool and helps me get the creative work done in the timeframe that clients demand.
Well when I heard about the F8 I did say dude if this thing isn't hissy like the H recorders, here's the 788 for average Joe like me. Yeah dude I like I've been saying on some of your other vids am just an average Joe but dude I'd love a sound devices recorder. I heard the 44-T and dam that thing's epic. Saddly the most afordible Sound Devices thing is the USB Pre 2. It's only kinda sad cause it ties you to a PC. Though there's a way apparently to get it to work with IOS. Which would be just so super epic.
MrHamit64 I have used my MixPre-D with my iPhone 6 several times for interviews with a boom on the talent and chan 2 for the interviewer. Analog out to Canon 5D. USB out to iPhone via Apple camera USB adapter. Rode Rec for recording software. Works great. Put iPhone in Airplane mode to keep quiet.
Hi Curtis i am a big fan of your videos and i am in need of a little help, I am using the sound devices 633 mixer with the AVX Sennheiser wireless radio mic system. I just wanted to know when i connect the transmitter to the XLR slot on the SD 633 what do i set the input to? Mic or Line? Im really confused as i have been told radio mics are usually automatically line level? Also if you could help me by explaining to me what the FADER nob does and how its meant to be used. I'm just starting out and the advice would be greatly appreciated. Warmest regards Tristram
Hi Tristram, the AVX's output produces a microphone level signal so you'll want to set the input to MIC. The fader is for adjusting levels of each of the inputs for stereo mixes. If you have multiple mics, and one person is doing most of the talking, you may want to pull the fader down on the person that is not speaking so that your overall recording is cleaner. I hope that makes sense. Best wishes!
Curtis, as always you get spot-on info packed into your videos. Please let me make a comment about the common reference to 'stereo mix' in a field device. I see this all the time in descriptions of field mixers and recorders and it makes sense that everyone would refer to a stereo mix on a field recorder because typically there are two mix busses 'L' and 'R'. And there are typically two (or more) mix bus outputs called 'L' and 'R'. You send you mics to bus L or R, like send the boom to L and lavs to R for example. Calling the mix busses L and R is from a tradition that came largely from the first two channel tape recorders from Nagra having a Left and Right recording track and even the model name had a S in it for Stereo. but with the Nagra and subsequent recorders from DAT to modern file based digital recorders the two mix busses are called L and R. You and I know that all field mixing for film and commercial work is MONO not STEREO. So my contention is that it can be confusing to call the mix busses L and R. I tell my film students that this L and R nomenclature is an anachronism and to simply think of L and R as bus 1 and bus 2 and stop thinking about a stereo mix as there is almost never a stereo mix. You can mix any of your inputs to bus 1 or 2, or even all inputs to only one bus. It is normal to send a single output channel to a camera, or a Comtek monitoring system, or to a video village, or to a PA system. Or maybe you send one mix to camera and a different mix to the village, so it's nice to have two mix busses for this purpose. But none of those audio destinations are stereo. Now sure when I record ambience or SFX then that is a true stereo recording. This is a very wordy diatribe I realize but somebody had to say it :)
Thank you Allen! Yes, I agree, it is a problematic term we use far too often, especially in the context of dialogue recording for narrative work. Sounds like a worthy topic for a future episode and I like how you put it: Think of them as bus 1 and 2. I noticed on a new audio interface which I'm reviewing that the meters actually show Ch1 and Ch2 which the camera records as channels on a two-channel track. (I almost said stereo track!)
It just seems like it's a little bit more basier when I upload my RU-vid videos. But I think I figured out how to compensate that. Great job on your tutorials you were a big help to me. Also check out the Sony FS five it is the little brother of the FS seven. But the black magic is also an awesome camera. Providing you use it great lens!
really nice overview and im no pro either and own H6 which is good for my sample recording purposes. But i always have interest in those other on The Mt of the Olympus-devices, priced 10X higher. Ty
I own one myself and it's an amazing piece of kit, I also own a sound devices 788t which was doin most of the jobs the 633 is now doing. The 788 was too big to bring on smaller jobs so I got the 633 which is perfect when you are recording one or two people, it has a lot of the same features as the 788 which I keep for dramas and movies. When the 633 is pared with an orca bag and harness it is a beautiful thing...well except the rain cover with the orca bag is a bit lame.
I love coming back to visit this presentation. A reminder of who this is for. Paid for your trade. Your client deserves the best you can dependably deliver. Also the electronics are just a dream. I am sure fully regulated fully complementary stages. A chassis for great isolation and vibration. I could imagine this even as a High End Audiophile source component. This screams Nagra. My benchmark of quality. Swiss perfection. I remember and love the Nagra 3 and 4 series reel to reels. On location at the Rain Forest or the heat of the Desert and more Nagra is the one. I like to think Sound Devices does at least some of this. The toy by Zoom uses so so OP Amps, and so on and built to a cost. Made for many vs. the Sound Devices made for the Professional few. Or aspiring Audiophile like me. I can dream can't I?
The 633 is my second favorite recorder. I love working with any of the Sound Devises recorders especially the 664. I used the 702T all weekend on a brutal shoot. Great video glad to see you expanding the range of information on your channel. I think people will like to see this evan if they cant afford it.
+DIYCameraGuy Thanks! I'd like to work with a 664 at some point as well. And this 700 series are pretty great as long as you don't have to do a lot of mixing.
Love your videos. Very detailed and complete. I have used a friends Sound Devices 722 a few times and it was sweet. But I do love my Zoom H6 and it's good enough for the work I do. *TOPIC SUGGESTIONS* 1. What is a "slate mic"? I think I know but would like a more professional answer. 2. I'd like to know more about the advantages of the high-end wireless equipment like Lectrosonic and Maxon. (Some of the Maxon transmitters record the audio locally so you can collect it later if there's an RF dropout. Anybody use that?) 3. *SLATE WORKFLOW:*Back ten years ago when I was shooting and editing a show with two cameras (with scratch audio) and separate sound, I changed up the slate process to make post syncing easier. I had the slate person slap the sticks first, then read the slate info. This way I could take the three files, two video plus separate sound, and cut everything before the slate clap. That made it easy to drag them onto the timeline and they'd all be in sync. Then I could still read and/or hear the verbal slate after the clap. That seems like a much better way to slate than the traditional clap after audible slate. What are your thoughts on this?
Excellent, thank you! My friends and I make RU-vid videos together and are continually finding that there are extant technical solutions to each new problem that arises. So this and your other videos answer many of the questions about why we’d want a particular feature or not, and they’re great education for us, thanks again.
Do you have any video on using the mixer in terms of recording levels. I'm used to a dbfs meter and am not sure where my levels should fall of where I start to clip. And how to manipulate the thresholds. Thank soooo much
By default, the limiters engage at +16dBu. I usually aim for peaks at or just above 0dBu, but it depends on what you're recording. If it is scripted dialogue with no laughing or shouting, you can certainly push beyond 0dBu, maybe to +12. Just depends. Practice, practice, practice and keep in mind that you have great limiters in place so you're not likely to mess anything up too badly.
@@curtisjudd thanks so much! 🙏 certainly helpful. Probably wasn't the best that my first go with it the talent would go from a low whisper to full on screaming haha levels all over the place. Thanks so much. Looking to get some lectrosonics next but not sure which model because there are so many so ill definitely be checking out your videos on that.
Hi Curtis, this is a great channel, thanks for all the hard work and useful information. Do you have any videos which cover recording very quiet audio?
Finally I get why all this ancient looking devices are still the best they are. What would you say the main differences between this one and the mix pre ones are? Great content as everything in your channel!!
Routing, more outputs, balanced outputs, bigger screen, better ergonomics for mixing, dual recording cards, and lots of additional nuances. Though keep in mind that the 6xx series is no longer in production. Now Sound Devices sells their 8xx series: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3C4CJmwXK2g.html
hey curtis i am long time fan i need help i want to record a video of an object and give it an effect like a slow motion movement of it while it sits on a table i have seen you do it on some of your videos how do you do it?
Hi Curtis, Great review on the 633, thanks for doing these. Question; How easy/involved (read; quickly) is using inputs 4-6 on this device? I'm considering getting one for these as my primary recorder, and like the fact that it can handle 6 discreet inputs. Any thoughts you can share? Lastly, does this record mp3's as a secondary file? Thanks.
Thanks Chip! Inputs 4-6 are line level inputs (sorry, you may already have known that, but just wanted to confirm). They're easy to set up by simply toggling the channel switch to the right, then setting the gain with the left menu encoder. Yes, you can record MP3 to one or both cards (CF or SD). Typically one would record wav to CF, MP3 to SD. Good luck!
Your videos are very much appreciated!!! Thank you! I'm looking to purchase Sound Devices 702 Portable, High-Resolution Audio Recorder and cannot find any video reviews on it. I thought the community (and my self) would appreciate having a review from someone like you. Thanks again for your work.
Hi David, thanks! The 700 series recorders are very, very good in terms of audio quality, durability, flexibility, etc. I don't quite have the funds to buy one, nor the need for one now that I have the 633, but if an opportunity arises to borrow one I'll happily do a review. I have used the 744T and loved it. I think the main question is whether the 702 would provide everything you need. Unless you buy the T version, you won't have a timecode clock. Do you need that? Also, you need just two inputs? Those are the main questions. I haven't heard many people say, "Gosh, I don't really like my Sound Devices 7xx recorder..." Tons of pros are happily using them. The most derogatory I've really heard is, "I prefer XYZ recorders" filling in XYZ with Zaxcom or Aaton or Nagra, etc. Best wishes!
Love those popout gain controls, That's something I would use on any mixer. Just nice how they lock in place, so they can't be easily bumped. USB keyboard, another awesome feature.
I would love to do that and will as soon as time allows. Until then, I have general courses on audio for film at school.learnlightandsound.com and a specific episode on setup basics for the 633 here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_nZ7R9QD7VI.html
I just stumbled across your reviews, Curtis.Truly wonderful presentations - clear, concise,dry but with a touch of warmth. Perfect for this rookie looking to start a career in sound at 54 yrs of age ;)
Great video! I love what I call your 'professional series' of videos. Information on what real professionals use and why. The analog limiters really show their value in the test. If I were doing work where that might be an issue, it would be a huge value. I also wondered: why don't more manufacturers offer a USB port to plug in a keyboard to enter in metadata? But let's even take it up a notch: from my brief research, these devices don't offer WiFi/Bluetooth. Do that and have a built-in web server to easier edit metadata and maybe even to organize files. I mean, $200 computer printers have been doing this for decades. I don't really consider something like this 'expensive'. If someone is getting the volume of work and is upping their production values, then the cost of something like this should be in their budget and production rate. I'm catching up on your videos. I'm confident with this information, I'll be much better prepared when I need to up my audio/video game!
Hi Ricardo, thanks! Sound Devices makes a USB dongle that allows you to connect to their iOS/Android app called Wingman via Bluetooth (added after I made this video). The app allows metadata entry and much larger meters.
Once again, great video, Curtis! The F8 does a lot of things very well, but I'll definitely want to upgrade to the 633, when I got the money. I think the F8 is a good initiative to the 633, the menu system is quite similar. Cheers
They don't make the 633 any longer. You'd want to look at the 833 and this video describes when it would make sense to upgrade to an 833: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3C4CJmwXK2g.html
depending how my work goes, probably 6 months down the lane I need devices such as this one, but watching your videos are really helping me A LOT gathering information not only on devices itself but the perfect use in different situations. Thanks Curtis for very informative videos (Y)
Very nice. If only they made panel style mixers. I'd love to have that quality in an analog utility mixer, but of course few will pay that much when Chinese-made toy versions work "almost" as well.
@@curtisjudd yeah, I saw the control surface, and it looks like a peach. I was thinking all-in-one, not a control surface for another box, and I don't need any recording capability for my own purposes. I started off as a FOH mixer back when the great analog touring consoles were being made. I would love to have that kind of build quality in a smaller form factor. I'm strictly TV and mostly retired; I have one gig where I use a small mixer to combine wireless packs for streaming, and even then I have rental gear supplied. I bring my own stuff only as a backup. This would be for home, something better than a mass produced mixer, but not as costly (or large) as an API or Neve. Gotta love the real P&G faders!
@@StringerNews1 Ah, I see. The type of gear you mention sound like a dream, and unfortunately for me, still a dream. But hopefully some day I'll have the opportunity to use a very nice, but reasonably sized analogue mixer. :)
@@curtisjudd the small studio models with 5-figure price tags are just a dream for me, and an extravagance for occasional use. Honestly, 4 figures for only occasional use is an extravagance in my mind, but if I got more audio work I'd look to Sound Devices right away. I shouldn't complain that my video skills are more in demand, I suppose! Thanks for your help!
+Jeff Lennan 3 mic/line inputs + 3 line inputs which is enough for many productions (e.g., a boom + 5 wireless). Yes it costs a lot, but as noted, lots of features that the pros need to get jobs. Most of the additional features enable the pros to get a good take on the first take. That's very important for films with budgets because every additional take costs money.
Hi Lisardo, the SD302 and Zoom F8 would be a great combination and a potential alternative to the SD633 if you're ok with the additional cables and bulk. The combination would be a bit heavier than the two separate devices and a little more fiddly since you'll have to operate two devices but there are lots of people who do that and get great results. Good way to save yourself around $1000 USD. As for the Tascam, this is one of Tascam's older devices (firewire connection, to illustrate). I have not used it personally, but if I were looking at a higher end Tascam at this point, I'd look at the HS-P82, though that runs about $2400 USD which is not far from the SD 633 in price and probably more than the SD302+Zoom F8 combination. And the HS-P82 is quite big and heavy, not the best choice for a bag mixer. I hope that helps and best wishes!
Pretty well, though there are differences. The 701D is really quite good! I'm not sure whether you've already seen this but I talk about this a bit in my DR-701D review: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bl0DnLRkFDE.html
+Curtis Judd yes I've actually seen that same video after searching RU-vid for more information and was pleasantly surprised to see it was one of your well made productions! I have a query and was wondering if you'd be able to answer. I would like to know is there a way to record to an external recorder, while recording internally using a Sony a6300 without the screen on the camera turning off? Also I am having difficulties with making the Tascam DR-701D HDMI output stream video to the external recorder, which is a BlackMagic Design Video Assist 4K. Any advice, suggestion or comment will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Hi again, I'm not sure about the Sony a6300 and its screen while recording externally. My experience with other cameras is that this is a limitation of the camera rather than of the external recorder. Generally, the camera's processor is the limiting factor on how many things it can do simultaneously (e.g., stream 4k out the HDMI port + do all of the processing necessary to display on the camera's screen in addition to encode the incoming signal to the selected codec. I'm also not sure whether the 701D's HDMI port is able to pass through 4K. When I had the review unit, it would not pass through a 4K signal from my Panasonic GH4. I don't know whether that's something which could be changed in a firmware update or whether it is a hardware limitation. Tascam support should be able to answer that. Sorry that I couldn't help more. :(
Great review! I'm trilled that I found someone who is so much into getting the best quality from their sound and video and I have a question! I want to start doing a podcast and some product reviews and I'm not sure what would be the best setup. I have a small budget and I was thinking of going with one of the following options: 1. First setup - Aputure A. lav (used with my S6 android phone) - Sony ICD-PX333 - Sony a57 ( I already own it) - Softbox kit or 2 light lamps ? (not sure what would bring more value/quality to my video) 2. Second setup - MXL 990 - Pop filter - Behringer 302USB ( I already own it) - arm/holder - Softbox kit or 2 light lamps ? (not sure what would bring more value/quality to my video) If you could leave some feedback I would highly appreciate it. Thank you!
+Valentin Fischer Thanks Valentin! I think you'll probably get richer audio with your second option. One thing to consider is that condenser microphones will tend to pick up reverberation in rooms quite a lot. So if you are going to go with the MXL, you may find the best results by finding a room that doesn't have a lot a reverb, or hanging blankets in front of any hard flat surfaces (also putting them on the floor if you have a hard floor) will greatly improve the sound. As for light, you'll get far fewer shadows with a softbox so that would generally be my first choice. Best wishes!
Analog limiter and accurate clock sure are features I would like. For productions where continuous runtime is less than an hour you can usually work around the clock drift issues. My instinct says I want this device, but that doesn't really make sense for my no budget productions :)
+Curtis Judd exactly. It surprises me that it is expensive but well... Maybe one can buy an external XLR-XLR analog limiter to a decent price? Also do you know how professional cameras like eg C300 do limiting, are they real analog limiters or more like the Zoom F8 digital limiter?
+randomgeocacher Definitely - outboard gear is an option, at least in studio. And there are some great options out there for reasonable prices. A little tough to take out into the field, but still... My understanding is that the limiters, if they have them in the cameras, are generally digital. Most pro cameras are generally expected to get a feed from a mixer like the 633 where all the potential problems can be managed before they hit the camera mic/line inputs.
By far the most thorough resource I've found on RU-vid. Most reviews on pro location sound gear seems to come from recent film grads that recycle each others content - it's exhausting.
Meah, the 633 is the more professionally oriented mixer/recorder. I don’t think it makes sense to think that one is better than the other. They fill different niches. The 10T has 8 XLR microphone/line inputs. The 633 has 3 mic/line inputs and 3 line inputs. But it has a variety of other features which make it a better tool for work on film sets.
Thanks Curtis. A general compliment for your videos is that the are paced and edited very nicely. At first I was thinking 16min! but after it was over, I was amazed at how quickly the time passed. Of course others have already commented of the superb content and I have to agree. Even if I never touch a Sound Devices recorder, I hsve a new appreciation. Thanks forbthis and your other videos.
I watched this video when you first published it and I just watched it again to validate my Sound Devices purchase - now I'm off to re-watch your other knowledge filled videos. Thank you for posting these!What is the best microphone for corporate interviews (featuring only the interviewer and interviewee)?
Congrats on the new recorder. Good luck recording some great sound! Here are a few comparisons of various mics I use indoors: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-q-b_1gOYOEQ.html And two others: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iLOp-_oIzeg.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RYWD5wI6B9k.html
Thank you for the reply and a very prompt one at that! I will watch all those videos and thank you again!!! If you're ever in Houston, TX I will buy you a beer.
Great and highly educational video as always, thanks! You're slowly convincing me to upgrade from my H5 but I can't because I have to be portable as a one-man band so it has to live on the camera :) I'll invest in a nice microphone first.
Another brilliant revue, Curtis .... you really have a great knack for combining the technical with the creative in an entertaining manner ... I actually enjoy listening to your reviews as well as learning a ton from them. Also, to my ears (listening on my JBL Studio monitors) this recording combination (AT4053b and SD633) is the best you've ever sounded ... guess it's all about the analog limiter and pre-amps ... as ever, you get what you pay for. We're both off to NAB in few days time ... would love to hear your views on any VR or 360º spherical mike systems you come across whilst you're roaming around - I'll be sending back immersive 360º reports on VR related matters: www.provideocoalition.com/nab-2016-thoughts-vr-hype-stream-reality-presence/ I'm in the process of trying to master the settings for my Zoom H6 with Sennheisser AVX hand-held mike and Lav combination .... as you well know, Audio is 50% of Video in movie productions ... kinda thinking that with trade show interviews it's more like 80% of the production quality ... have you got any of your excellent tutorials you could point me to which would help in that situation? Keep up the great work and all the best with developing your Sound Mixer business ... hope to run into you at NAB and do a 360º interview with you :-) Cheers, Neil
+VRabbitHole Media Thanks Neil! I will definitely keep a lookout for VR/360 mic systems. Would love to meet up in Vegas if only for a few minutes. I have had so little exposure to VR so far and I'd like to a better understanding from you. Will you be there Tuesday or Wednesday to meet up? (also, good article, your point is salient).
+Curtis Judd There's a small VR/AR Pavilion in the North Hall ... I'll be interviewing a bunch of companies there on Tuesday 19th ... depending on which end of LVCC you're coming from you could either stop by there first or a bit later in the day ... let me know if you can make it ... I'll be the grey haired geezer with a VR rig and AVX mike causing trouble. Re growing your mixing business ... there's going to be a growth area in VR/360 live event streaming for things like music concerts and sports events (to say nothing of post-production 360 sound design) ... so keep you ears open for any audio tech related to VR live events. Hope to meet you in NAB ... make sure you wear your most comfortable shoes :-( Cheers.
+VRabbitHole Media Great, I'll look for you there. Funny you should mention shoes, I learned that lesson last year. This year I just bought a new pair for the days at the exhibit halls. We'll see how Nike fairs. ;-)
Nice video :) Soumd devices has to be lower a bit (500 -800) then they can sell a lot more. Most of pro consumer never ever will buy field recorder on that price. So if the price can be dropped a bit, then more selling will come to the picture. For most of Us,this recorders from Sound Devices are just a dream.
+BMR Studio Yes, I agree that this is out of reach for most of us. I think we'll see Zoom fill the niche for enthusiasts as Sound Devices very clearly serves the professional market so I don't expect to see their prices drop. It is a fair business strategy. And Zoom is coming on strong with some very impressive recorders, particularly the F8. I'd expect Zoom to win the between $1000 and $2000 USD market before Sound Devices does.
So if yyou are a bussinessman... the worst income equal: high development cost, narrow target market, low production volume, long productlife, expensive product. My right? We will see soon the Zoom or Tascam (both company has a great developer team, with great history on recording) fill up this gap between consumer, proconsumer, professional level of recorders on a good price. But, if You think on the pro consumers (indy film makers, pro youtubers, web ENG, small advert producers, fashion etc) they got already a quality level, what is almost unreachable 10 years ago. This devices have a big development in the last 5 years, regarding sample rate, storage capacity, sound quality, features, size, weight, etc. Now the timecode is on the table. Zoom and Tascam already did a one step forward. Couple of years, and we will get all features from them. And there is more players on the market. Roland, Sony.... I hope we will see real competitor products. BTW, I still respect and want Sound Devices recorder :) but not for this price. And I think I'am not alone.
Hello Curtis I love your videos, I'm struggling between saving for an 633 or start buying better equipment right now... For example, Do you think is worth buying an used 744t for around $1500? another option would be to buy a Zoom F4... I'm a little overwhelmed of the many posts there are online... I don't know what to do! :) I'm a beginner sound recordist, mosly field sound for films. Thanks in advance.
Hi Manuel. A couple of questions I hope will help: Do you need to mix multiple microphones in a single take to create a mix that can be handed over directly for post production where they will not have time to fiddle with isolated microphone channels? Or will the films you be working on expect a stereo mix for dailies? Are you working for pay or passion projects? These are the big questions you need to consider when trying to decide between the 7 series recorders like the 744T and the 6 series mixers like the 633. If stereo mixes are not critical and you're working mostly on passion projects where a stereo mix in the recorder is not critical, then a 744T is a brilliant device which will probably serve you very well. I hope that helps!
Thank you very much! It's mostly for passion and indie projects. I know I will need a mixer soon if I want to work in bigger productions and get paid for it. For now I will have the SD 744T and the SD MM-1 for my boom. Next step probably invest in a better shotgun mic (AT4053b) or some wireless systems. It's hard and expensive to start in this world... but thanks to you it's much easier, you are the best!
I've owned my SD 633 for well over a year. Use it every day for professional work. Nice review. My only complaint with the 633 is that its internal TC loses accuracy over a day or so. Example: I set mine to Time Of Day with the Atomic Clock. I have to set this daily as the 633 goes forward at least 20 seconds a day. I find this unacceptable in such a high end mixer/recorder. I use my 633 as the Master Clock to sync all my Video Recorders at the beginning of each shoot. Everything stays "In-Sync" for the day. But, just wish I didn't have to keep resetting the 633 to the correct time each day. My $100 Watch is more accurate than the 633 when it comes to keeping exact time. Have you experienced this? Thanks, Michael O
+Michael Orcutt Hi Michael, I haven't used the timecode beyond just a few simple tests, but I am surprised to hear that you've experienced 20 seconds of drift in a 24 hour period. Are you sure it is the 633 and not the other devices? If so, it sounds like you may want to contact SoundDevices. The time code oscillator should not drift that much. As a matter of practice, most productions sync at the start of the day. So that is not unusual to have to do that (to prevent any of the devices from drifting too far off).
+Curtis Judd Also, in the 633 Manual it states that it holds precise TC Two Hours after Power Down. Then goes into a less precise mode. Which is something I wish I could Turn Off. As, I use this Mixer/Recorder daily. My 633 is the Master. And i Jam TC to my other sources. This works well until two hours after Power Off. I can't imagine it uses that much battery. I have Two L-Series batteries connected to the base of the 633. I can go days off these before they are depleted. Thanks for the reply Curtis.
Hi Michael, the film school I work for has 15 x 633s. We sync them with BETSO syncboxes to Alexas and other cameras. Rushes are synced and viewed in house. We don't have any sync issues. The Ambient TC boards in the SD products are as good as you can get. I suggest you review your workflow, or get the device serviced as there should absolutely not be any problem. All the devices should be set up each morning and re-jammed without fail.
+Yootjoob Thanks! Ah the Nagra recorders. They're still making two channel recorders last I heard. Sort of old school but I am told that their preamps are still pretty amazing.
