Sound for Video Session: Headphone and Output Routing Demo - Zoom F8 Recorder

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On your audio recorder, what is headphone routing? What about output routing? And why would you want to change it? In this session, we cover the purposes of routing and show a couple of examples of routing for specific production situations. We demonstrate this on the Zoom F8, but the same principles apply on the Sound Devices MixPre series of recorders as well as the professional level recorders from Sound Devices, Zaxcom, and others.
Please consider my sound for film classes available over at school.learnlightandsound.com
Gear and links discussed/used to record this episode:
Zoom F8
Amazon: amzn.to/2ImLJff
B&H: bhpho.to/2rsxWKr
Zoom F4
Amazon: amzn.to/2jAtu81
B&H: bhpho.to/2Aplb5d
Sound Devices MixPre-3
DVeStore: www.dvestore.com/sound-devices-mixpre-3-mix-pre-3-portable-audio-recorder/#aid=6242
Sound Devices MixPre-6
DVeStore: www.dvestore.com/sound-devices-mixpre-6-mix-pre-6-portable-audio-recorder/#aid=6242
Sound Devices MixPre-10T
DVeStore: www.dvestore.com/sound-devices-mixpre-10t-10-input-recorder-with-built-in-timecode/#aid=6242
Sanken COS-11D (used to record my voice in this session)
B&H: bhpho.to/2Biex11
Sennheiser G3 Wireless Microphone System (you will need to buy the right frequency block for your region - call B&H if you need help)
B&H: bhpho.to/2Bif3w2
Sound Devices 633 Mixer/Recorder
DVeStore: www.dvestore.com/guy-says-gear-reviews/audio/audio-recorders-mixers/sound-devices-633-six-input-compact-mixer-with-10-track-recorder/#aid=6242
Copyright 2018 by Curtis Judd
Music - MzA by Cary Judd, used with permission
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.

Опубликовано:

6 май 2018

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Комментарии : 115

@AnthonySherritt 6 лет назад

This was terrific. exactly what I needed. Thank you!

@curtisjudd 6 лет назад

Thanks Anthony! 👍

@theabirus Год назад

Thanks a lot! I've been looking for this video for quite some time! Super useful!

@TheUnMarketingGroup 6 лет назад

Ha, just when you think you know it all, Curtis teaches you something new. Love the configuration for sending scratch and boom to the boom op!

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 6 лет назад

Thanks Norm!

@GeneWaddle 6 лет назад

I like that I can come here and continue to learn about these things. Even if I don't need it right now, I might sometime and it's always good to learn.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 6 лет назад

Thanks Gene.

@remektekmedia6641 6 лет назад

Great value as always. I would also mention that you can quickly navigate between the top and bottom rows by pushing in the selector and turning while pushed in. This is just a fast way to move up/down without needing to go all around horizontally. Tiny point, I know, but I find it helpful and thought some others might like to know about it too. Incidentally, the push-turn applies to any Zoom menu where it has vertical selection choices. I liked Curtis's explanation and recommendations on which mode to send to which output. Thanks Curtis for making these tutorials.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 6 лет назад

Thanks, handy tip!

@juliandarley 6 лет назад

thanks for this, it was very helpful. i had previously taken one look at all those tiny little routing boxes and decided not to bother with them, but now i can see that they are quite easy to use (if a bit fiddly) and potentially very useful.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 6 лет назад

Glad it helped Julian, thanks for the feedback!

@AGproductions87 2 года назад

Best one yet!

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 2 года назад

Thanks.

@film-manufaktur 5 лет назад

Thank you for this very informative Video, Curtis. I get some ideas to create a better workflow with my beloved F8.

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

👍🏻Thanks and best wishes!

@northcoaststudios Год назад

I just got an F4 and have spent the last few days trying to figure out how to listen in the headphones to the recordings I made. At 4:15 in this video you made it obvious by pointing out the L and R settings as default. WA-LA! After 15 hours of looking at and trying so many things, as well as watching a number of videos, this specific video of yours fixed my problem for me. I was almost ready to think I had got a dud. Thank you, as always. Yes, I know the video is 4 years old, but this video is exactly what I needed today. ;)

@curtisjudd Год назад

Glad it helped and happy recording!

@freddiealonsonido 6 лет назад

This was really useful, thanks again.

@curtisjudd 6 лет назад

Thanks Freddie.

@usernamenotvisibIe 5 лет назад

AWESOME CURTIS, just purchased the F4, and it's the same. I was lost and you've guided me as always!

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

Glad it helped! Happy recording!

@usernamenotvisibIe 5 лет назад

Curtis Judd Off topic but relevant to your previous videos: I'm looking for a pair of sub-$400 (total) lavaliers for film dialogue. This is to complement a boom using RODE NTG-3 (outdoor) and AUDIX SCX-1-HC (indoor). I have followed your reviews and testing of the following lavalier setups but I do not have a reference point as to compare the ZOOM H1/Giant Squid to the Zoom F1 and Tascam DR-10L...with included lavaliers. Which of the following 3 is the better setup? For independent film dialogue. A) 2 Zoom H1n field recorders plus 2 Giant Squid lavaliers. B) 2 Zoom F1 field recorders with included lavaliers. C) 2 Tascam DR-10L field recorders plus included lavaliers. Are there better options than what I'm considering at this price point? Thank you for your time and guidance.

@usernamenotvisibIe 5 лет назад

Also, may you comment on the relative noise levels (preamp quality) between the H1 and and the other two? E.g. if I have to crank the gain for a quiet or distant source, will one of these provide noticeably cleaner audio than the other?

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

Hi Javier, I have not done a formal head to head comparison of these and in the case of the F1, I didn't have the included lavalier mic to test as B&H lent me the F1 kit with the shotgun microphone attachment. However, I can say this: The microphone included with the DR-10L was not my favorite and added a substantial amount of noise in my tests. I'd be inclined to start with the F1 with the included microphone and see whether you are pleased with the results. If not, you can always add a better microphone later. To realize a substantial difference from the included microphone, you will likely need to spend at least $100 per mic, perhaps for one of the Oscar Tech lavaliers. I hope that helps.

@ikereed6847 6 лет назад

Nice tips. I haven't given much thought to routing as far as splitting the mix between R and L channels that way in headphones, It makes great sense to exploit that option.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 6 лет назад

Thanks Ike. Happy mixing!

@nolashtheartist 3 года назад

Thank you fo this vid! I accidentally pressed some buttons and messed up my routing. You helped me understand these things :)

@curtisjudd 3 года назад

You're welcome. Happy recording!

@eastern05 6 лет назад

Hey you did it. Thanks buddy!

@curtisjudd 6 лет назад

You bet! 🔈

@ravipillaisikkim 10 месяцев назад

Thank you Curt, your video is so helpful to understand technicalities of sound and the recorder. I watch your videos from Gangtok, Sikkim, India close to China. keep up the good work.

@curtisjudd 10 месяцев назад

Thanks Ravi. Happy recording!

@ravipillaisikkim 10 месяцев назад

letting you know i am watching your sennheiser mke 600 review. great video. you are so helpful. thanks a ton bro. @@curtisjudd

@smalltalk.productions9977 5 лет назад

as someone new to their zoom f4 (with my only previous experience being the tascam DR60D) there really is a learning curve! you vids are helpful in understanding the options available. since i'm often sending the audio back to a dslr/mirrosless camera (panasonic gh/g series or canon) i will probably need to use the sub out to send the mix track back to the camera. right? thank you for the effort and the sharing. i am an appreciative subscriber. thumbs up.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 5 лет назад

Thanks!

@aarontrobinsonshorts 4 года назад

Thanks for this overview. Anyone know how to toggle between headphone routing settings 1-10 outside the menu???

@curtisjudd 4 года назад

Hi Aaron. Are you asking for shortcuts to switch between headphone presets or quickly get to the configuration page for each headphone preset?

@redsoda 5 лет назад

Hi Curtis! Great video. Can you help me please? I have 4 XLR mics and 3 line inputs (2 guitars and a keyboard). I can either hear all the XLR microphones in the headphones, or a single line input at a time (only when I click the PFL for that line). What am I doing wrong please? I didn't have this problem before upgrading to firmware version 5 on my Zoom F8.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 5 лет назад

Hi Red Soda, you'll want to check the routing setup for your headphone preset to make sure you're sending all of the inputs to the headphones.

@IvanGonzalez-nt8ez 6 лет назад

Curtis, just a tip, you can move the cursor up an down instead of left and right by keeping the scroll pushed and then you rotate.

@curtisjudd 6 лет назад

Thanks Iván.

@andyagoro3815 Год назад

What might be wrong when sound is Abit low on EDIT(adobe premier pro 2022) but while I do my recordings on location and hearing my playbacks it sounds okay..

@joshua3113 6 лет назад

Nice video.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 6 лет назад

Thanks.

@TheFilmmakingChannel 4 года назад

Can you connect audio monitors to the zoom f8n when it’s working as an audio interface?

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 4 года назад

Yes, it has balanced outputs (TA3 connectors) and a 3.5mm unbalanced output.

@sigridlee3743 6 лет назад

This was very helpful. The first time I used the Zoom F-4 I got confused, and got the sound only in the left channel of the headphones and almost panicked. Then I saw I had used the wrong "triangles" in the routing window. This reminds me of a question I had: If I am recording just two channels, let's say in a "live" chamber music situation, is there any reason to make (or not) input 1 and 2 L/R stereo? Will I get the same effect using two mono channels each panned hard L and R? Are there sound quality advantages to one or the other? I guess the advantage could be that even if I am listening pre-fader, I will automatically have a stereo sound, and they get armed as a pair. Otherwise, I would have to pan them, and arm each one. I don't have to send the signal anywhere except for the headphones I am listening through. Thanks so much for all these videos.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 6 лет назад

Hi Sigrid, for recording a chamber group, yes, most make stereo recordings (which of course also involves very careful placement of the microphones as well).

@reidandersen2340 3 года назад

Great Video as always Curtis! I was recently prepping for a shoot and noticed that the headphone routing only abides by the settings when using an external power source or the 12V DC In power cable. When I was setting the routing using just AA's, I was unable to get stereo separation from the multiple input sources. Is this a set function of the f8n? Thanks!

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 3 года назад

Hi Reid, not that I've noticed, but I almost always power it with and external battery. Probably best to confirm with ZOOM support. Best wishes!

@stephenmolloy4244 5 лет назад

Great video again. Quick question. Is there a way I can monitor exactly what is being recorded to camera? That is, just if I want to check that nothing has gone wrong on their end. I use the old reliable SQN a lot and that has a switch you can use too toggle between the mixer and the return feeds.

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

Hi Stephen, unfortunately, the F8 and F8n do not have a dedicated camera return input so you'd have to monitor from the camera itself. The F4 does have a camera return, strangely. On the F8, you could feed the audio back into one of the F8's XLR inputs if you have one free and then set up a headphone preset that only includes that one input.

@stephenmolloy4244 5 лет назад

Ah interesting! Thank you for the info!

@epontius 5 лет назад

With the F8n set to dual recording, say for example tracks 1 and 2, are doubled to D1 and D2 (tracks 5 and 6), it seems to send both the track and it's double to the main mix. This makes it somewhat difficult to record isolated tracks and the dual tracks and send a l/r mix to a camera. There is no option in the main out routing to not send the dual tracks to the main mix. I can send just track 1 and 2 to the main out, but this makes monitoring using the meters difficult. What am I missing?

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

Do you still have the L or R mix selected in the output routing? Sounds like you'll want to disable those and make sure that channel 5 & 6 are also de-selected.

@joelwilliams9636 Год назад

How would I create a l and r mix and iso track for the boom and do a similar thing for the lavs when it comes to editing?

@curtisjudd Год назад

In the recording menu, if you select L+R + Isos poly, you'll get a LR mix plus isos for every input.

@larryvaughn5843 4 года назад

What is the U1, U2, U3 and U4 setting for? It isn't mentioned in the manual, and apparently was added in a firmware update or other software add-in. It shows up when I rotate the know further clockwise, after the S2 box. Possibly has something to do with the available control surface...

@curtisjudd 4 года назад

Hi Larry, these allow you to record audio from your computer via one of the 4 USB streams when in audio interface mode.

@leebyrd723 4 года назад

Is there any way to adjust the stereo-width and level of a pair recorded as separate Mid and Side channels during playback with the MS>LR circuit engaged? I cannot seem to engage MS post-fader. The only way I can get F8 to engage the M/S decoder and convert to L/R is to route those channels pre-fader.. yet then there is no control over level or panning (stereo width). Engaging MS in headphone routing automatically switches the pair to pre-fader.

@curtisjudd 4 года назад

Hi Lee, I haven't done any M/S recording with the F8 so I'm not sure. Probably best to contact Zoom support. Best wishes.

@toby8462 4 года назад

If I have 5 audio tracks I want to send to all 4 cameras (a mixed track), what do you suggest is the best option, do I select all of the outputs 1 through 5 or both LR? ie. Both Left and Right channels to one output as opposed to two ?

@curtisjudd 4 года назад

I'd just send the LR mix. And the rest totally depends on the production. Ask the post team what they want/need. If I were the post team, I'd just want a LR mix. And unless you are panning anything, even just mono L mix would be fine.

@Balegarul 4 года назад

do you know if you could use the zoom f8 internal mic (the one from the bottom right corner of the recorder) as "a local mic" as you mentioned at 10:08?

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 4 года назад

Yes, it is a slate microphone. Not sure whether you can record it to a track - it is routed to all tracks when you engage it.

@Balegarul 4 года назад

@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions but then does it get recorded onto all tracks if its engaged during recording?

@leiphf 4 года назад

will the Post-Fader settings actually record to the SD-Card? Or are all the Post-Fader settings only essential for output to the camera (for example)

@curtisjudd 4 года назад

Postfader affects what is sent to the L+R mix and if you have the L+R mix enabled, it will be recorded post fader. However, the isolation input channels will NOT have the fader levels applied to their tracks on the recording. You get the best of both worlds.

@kaylyjane232 3 года назад

Hey Curtis! Can you send two separate main outputs? One to camera (LR mix), and the other to director (boom)

@curtisjudd 3 года назад

Yes - the F8 and F8n support output routing so you can decide which channels/mix to send to each individual output.

@kaylyjane232 3 года назад

Thank you! I just couldn’t tell if you could set both main outputs ( 1 and 2) from the video. Such a helpful demonstration.

@lauddp1150 5 лет назад

Very noob question, but how I do connect this to my camera? I know I'm supposed to use the main out, but what cord would I need and do I have to fiddle with the settings in my camera afterwards?

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

I think this video may help - demonstration of how to do this with the Zoom F4: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DypXXzPhxF8.html The F8 is similar but a few of the screens are slightly different. I also have a paid course on the F8 over at school.learnlightandsound.com if you're interested. Good luck!

@eugenekiliwa4396 5 лет назад

Thank you so much Sir, perfect

@ahriik 6 лет назад

I haven't used the F8 as extensively so forgive me if I'm incorrectly thinking about this. Is normal to just listen to all the tracks prefader? Does that not allow you to listen to any adjustments you make during a recording with the faders, for the isolated tracks? I can understand if for example you are listing to the mixtrack postfader, you are making adjustments for the mix that will be handed off to post for a quick turnaround. Nearly everything I work on though, we are going into the iso tracks for the mix. Is it normal for the iso tracks to be minimally adjusted during recording then, and just have a proper gain set at the beginning of recording? What if a track gets too loud during recording, and you don't have limiters to catch it? Sorry for the long question. The proper philosophy and usage of prefader and postfader listening has continued to elude me for a while.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 6 лет назад

Hi ahriik, faders only affect the stereo mix, they don’t change what is recorded to iso channels. So yes, if you’re mostly just using the isos in post mixing, then monitoring the pre fader iso channels makes sense. And yes, ideally gain is set up at the start and is not adjusted during recording of a clip, but you have to do what you have to do if things get louder than expected. I would not think of the usage of pre vs post fader as proper or not proper, but what is most useful to you as the mixer and what other members of the production need. Good luck!

@ahriik 6 лет назад

Thanks for this reply. At the time of my question, I was using a Tascam DR-701D as my primary recorder (which only allows for gain/trim settings, no fader options). I've since upgraded to a Zoom F4 in the past couple of weeks, and this video and explanation regarding pre/post fader monitoring makes much more sense!

@curtisjudd 6 лет назад

Thanks ahriik, glad it makes more sense! Also, congrats on your new recorder!

@benperrin4898 5 лет назад

Hi Curtis. Love your videos. I've been binging on them lately. I just got the f4 and I'm wanting to record audio from a boomed mic into the recorder plus I want to use the sub out to record to the camera as well as it has 3.5mm jacks. I had track 1 armed and sent out to the sub out and even when I turned down the trim knob all the way to it's lowest (10) the level going to the camera was still slightly too high. So my question is, in this scenario would I have been better using post-fade so then I could use the faders to control the output? The second question is there is an option to have the outputs be line level or mic level. Which one should I choose? I understand that the input is a mic but I wasn't sure whether or not the camera input should be mic level. I'm guessing that it should? Sorry for the long winded question and thanks so much for all your advice!!

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

Hi Ben, Most cameras with 3.5mm inputs are microphone inputs so you'll want to use the mic level setting for the sub 1/2 output. Then you'll want to adjust the input level on the camera down. Which camera are you using? I've found that some have very hot inputs like the Panasonic GH series so that can be a bit of a challenge. In those cases, I would use the fader to adjust the output level and send the post fader out, not the gain trim because you'll want the gain trim to control the level recorded to the F4. I hope that makes sense and good luck!

@benperrin4898 5 лет назад

Thanks so much Curtis! I changed the output level to mic instead of line and it now seems to be working perfectly. I am using the Sony A7R II on which I have set the mic level to be the lowest step before turning off. I am finding that the Sony's record much cleaner audio compared to the Canon DSLRs when going straight in from an external preamp. I had a job on Saturday so it was fantastic to have everything working perfectly for that. Thanks again for your help. I know the answer is obvious when you explain it but for a noob sometimes things are a little harder to realise until you go through the experience of using it.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 5 лет назад

Glad it worked out Ben!

@partynostop-channel2817 2 года назад

Is it possible to choose to record in pre fader or post fader? Thanks

@curtisjudd 2 года назад

Well, the iso tracks are pre fader and the mix tracks are post fader. Not sure whether you can record the isos post fader...

@pwoblem 5 лет назад

Hello! Very interesting! Thanks Curtis! One question: When talking about the SUB OUT you mention "Thats where i'm typically send audio wirelessly to the rest of the crew". What are you using to wirelessly transfer the audio to the rest of the crew? And is it possible to send the audio directly to the camera with some sort of transmitter/reciever?

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

Yes, comteks are usually used to send a wireless feed to the crew: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-V_C7wSfNIaM.html When you send audio to camera wirelessly, this is usually called a "wireless hop". Here's one way to do it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_c64B9s0eCA.html

@AlbertoSueri 5 лет назад

Question: when using the f8 as audio interface, how can you turn the volume up and down for the main out speakers? Thanks

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 5 лет назад

Hi Alberto, on the second screen, there is an output level you can adjust.

@AlbertoSueri 5 лет назад

@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions Hi, thanks. So there's not a quicker way to do that, ie a knob. In that case buying an external volume controller is a must. Thanks

@curtisjudd 5 лет назад

@@AlbertoSueri If you leave it on the second screen, the main menu knob is your volume control. But I agree, not ideal and you may wish to add an external controller.

@Libsenth 2 года назад

You mention here that sometimes they use the audio sent to the camera to do a cut, and then the audio-person needs to sync up later after the cut. How would this be done if you get one finished video-file? Or am I missing something? Thanks!

@curtisjudd 2 года назад

Post editors sometimes use vocalign for this, but normally, they'd get an OMF or AIFF file which can then be imported into a digital audio workstation app with all of the original clips.

@Libsenth 2 года назад

@@curtisjudd Thanks. Wouldn't this then only be the audio from the camera? I don't see how the post-audio guy would easily do this.

@curtisjudd 2 года назад

@@Libsenth That's a tough thing to answer in a RU-vid comment. It is a very big topic to cover film post workflows. But for the films I've worked on, Editorial had the production sound clips and synced the production sound to picture, then did the edit, then sent the OMF/AIFF to the post sound team for mixing.

@wildlyundivided 4 года назад

Hi Curtis, Couple questions... 1. The headphone output has at least two settings. How do you make settings 1 active vs. settings 2? Do you enter into the menu, then make it active somehow and exit the menu? 2. W.R.T. main out routing...How are you wireless sending audio? You have a transmitter connected via 1/8" (for example) to the recorder, and the wireless receiver has a headphone input? Do I have that right? One transmitter can transmit to many receivers tuned to the same freq, since the transmitter is just broadcasting? Thanks, Sean

@curtisjudd 4 года назад

Hi Sean, 1) You hold down the stop button and press the channel 7 button which takes you directly to the routing screen. From there you press the fast forward or reverse buttons to change which headphone preset you'd like to use. 2) For headphones for the director, producers, and others, I use a comtek like this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-V_C7wSfNIaM.html

@wildlyundivided 4 года назад

Thanks, Curtis! Very helpful.

@trancepriest 4 года назад

Say if Track 8 was used as a mic input for communicating with Boom Operator. Is there a way to not record Track 8?

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 4 года назад

Reduce the fader for track 8 to its lowest setting and adjust the headphone routing to include track 8. Track 8 will still be recorded but you can drop it in post and it will not be in the stereo mix.

@curtisjudd 2 года назад

@@tripdrip4174 👍

@aleksandraszczyrek3051 4 года назад

I have a question friends: In my f4 zoom, I wanted to send a sub out to the camera, the camera caught -20db signal from my zoom, but did not catch any sounds from my channel 1. Where was the pole. Why could it be like this?

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 4 года назад

Hmm...not sure. Might need to check the routing for the sub out and made sure it includes the left and right mix.

@aleksandraszczyrek3051 4 года назад

@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions I marked only 1 channel as a prefade, can it work?

@curtisjudd 4 года назад

@@aleksandraszczyrek3051 It can work. But it seems nothing is actually coming in on that channel? Hard to tell without more details. Might be helpful to contact Zoom support to help work through the details. Best wishes!

@videoboxstudios 3 года назад

Great video - thank you. Question - Is the Zoom F4 in USB mode - can it record also to the SD card in parallel? didn't find this answer yet.

@LearnLightAndSoundSessions 3 года назад

Yes it can.

@videobox2452 3 года назад

In what settings. When i turn the aif on. The usb interface is disable. My goal is to record both to the sd cards and in parallel through the usb into the tricaster. Couldnt figure it out. Thank you for your help

@curtisjudd 3 года назад

@@videobox2452 First make sure you have the latest firmware installed on the F4. Then in the USB menu, you'll select the option titled, "AIF with Rec" which is the mode where you can record with the F4 and use it as a USB interface at the same time.

@curtisjudd 3 года назад

@@videobox2452 Also, if you're interested, I have a full course on the ZOOM F4 over at school.learnlightandsound.com

@videobox2452 3 года назад

I purchased your course a week after i purchased the Zoom F4 last year. Great course to dive into the Zoom F4. When I turn On the Aif with Rec. I cant go into the Audio Interface at all. I do have firmware 3.00. Emailed to Zoom - they didnt reply. Maybe there is something I'm missing with all the different options 😀