It looks like an entire course on F8n Pro FOR FREE!!! ..Just done with the Pre-order. Gonna have it in a week I guess.... I will rewatch the entire video afterward. Thank you so Much!!
Thanks for clarifying the difference between the gain trim and fader. However, I'm confused as to when you would use the "main mix" (10:53 - "the fader is how much you are sending over to the main mix".) As a filmmaker recording dialogue, I need all the tracks to be separate so I can manipulate them by characters in post (I guess this is mixing). Would we ever use the "main mix" given to us by sound recordists? Upon further thought, I suppose if they are mixing, lowering and raising the fader with each character, I guess I'd have a usable mix - but it seems like a lot of work and I'm not sure soundies do that. Maybe a video on how soundies mix during film productions would be a good video subject. I'd love to see if they are constantly tuning the fader knobs and what the industry standard is as the ones I've hired set the gain trim and maybe occasionally touch the faders.
Depends on the production, but even if they default to the iso tracks in post, they can use a decent mix for dailies. And for shows that need quick turnaround, a good production mix is gold, even if post just cleans it up a touch.
Hey Curtis, What do you think about the lack of dual channel recording feature? What options are there to have a safety track? the 32 bit float is enough to compensate this function?
I was a little disappointed to learn that at feature wasn't available anymore. However with the ability to record to two SD cards and the 32 bit float I don't know if it's an issue. Having a basic understanding of setting gains really does help. But so far mostly everything I've thrown at it I've not had issues. I could see may be doing sound effects where you wouldn't want to overload a channel where that would be useful but I think the 32 bit float makes up for it.
With 2 C70 and the Zoom F8n PRO, how would you recommend timecode? I got tentacle on my cameras currently. I’m not sure if the Zoom could act as a master or if I should get a third Tentacle for the zoom?
Two main options: 1) F8n as master and jam sync each of the tentacles via cable to the F8n. 2) add another tentacle to you kit to feed timecode to the F8n. Wirelessly jam the tentacles.
Curtis I have a Mix Pre 6 1st Gen. It's currently up for sale on multiple platforms. I want to upgrade to the 2nd gen Mix Pre 6, but I see this Zoom F8n Pro....... What do you recommend I do? Most of my gigs I get, the Mix Pre suffices, but I would like to get into a higher input count mixer with more features than the 1st Gen Mix Pre. Thanks for any advice you have!!
It depends on the jobs you do, but the MixPre-10 II would be my first choice, and then the F8n Pro my second choice. But there are a LOT of considerations.
@@curtisjudd funny you say that. I ended up finding a GREAT deal on a used Mix Pre 10II! Just got it yesterday. It looks new and everything works! Thanks for the reply Sir!
Hey Curtis, thanks for putting this together! I always find your videos well produced and thoroughly informative. First a quick question for you- I noticed in one of your videos, it looks like you're using Neutrik EMC connectors. Have you noticed a difference with them? I'm thinking about making the plunge. A few thoughts/rambles about the video from an F6'er for anyone particularly bored: - Yes, the F6 also shows the trim post-AD in the schematic as well. I too was concerned about this at first. My best guess is that the dynamic range of the dual-AD converter architecture is so big that an adjustable-gain preamp in this price range wouldn't perform any better (and probably wouldn't support digital control). In my testing, the F6's preamps perform about as well as most entry-to-mid level integrated preamps, right on par for its price. (In any event, I'd always rather have digitally controlled preamps OR fixed/stepped-gain preamps over the nonsense that is analog-controlled preamps; I spent 30 minutes once putting white-out dots on my old H6's knobs where they ACTUALLY provided matched gain with a 1kHz drone feeding into them, the numbers were totally inaccurate) - Yes, it's possible to clip the F6 (same rated max input +4 dBu). As you noted in your F3 video, this is indeed entirely based on mic sensitivity; I only noticed it once when clapping directly into a Rode NTG5 (which has an insane sensitivity of -23.5 dB re 1V/pa // 66mV @ 94 dBu SPL @ 1kHz). Using a less sensitive mic (most "studio" condenser mics are a solid 10-15 dB less sensitive than that) or inserting an inline pad into the signal chain (or using the pad on your mic if present) will fix the issue. I believe you can in theory calculate your max SPL simply by inverting the sensitivity, adding it to 94 (94 dBu = 1V/Pa), then adding the max dBu input rating (in this case 4). So, with a NTG5, we have a max SPL of 94 + 24 + 4 = 122 dB SPL. With a more sane condenser microphone that is more like 132-138 dB SPL, which is approaching or surpassing the max SPL of the circuitry or even capsules of many mics anyway. You can do the same calculation with the MixPre-II family or any other AD converter/interface/general audio hardware on the market. (in any event, it is much better than the dreadful H3VR which seems to clip somewhere around 110-120 dB SPL!) - Probably the +4 dBu max input sensitivity is part of why the F-series is more power efficient; voltage and current are the limiting factor in max I/O levels generally. - Personally, I see the 32-bit Float argument more as one of workflow. It's the same as shooting RAW photos or video in a Log gamut: you use 32-bit float when you know you have time to go home, process your audio in digital form, and tweak it to perfection as needed, OR in situations where you are dealing with uncontrollable, changing, or unfamiliar situations and need room to adjust in post; no limiter, no effects, no processing; everything is done at home later with carefully-tweaked plugins/processors of your choosing. 24/16-bit of course makes more sense for a live situation; throw on a limiter/compressor, HP, whatever you need and bus it out to your streaming setup or whatnot. - On that note, I've always seen Zoom's F-series as slightly conflicted. It tries to be both a live mixer and a portable recorder. I spent a good 15 minutes 're-programming' my F6 to cut out all the crud I don't need/use for my workflow and I assume everyone else does the same. I get why some companies go for the 'programs'/'apps' approach with their devices. - Someone wondered if Zoom would make a bigger recorder... they do, it's called the L-20/L-20R, which can take/record 16 mics. The preamps I believe are the same as in the H-series though, and the gain controls are analog pots not digitally-controlled. Definitely looks/feels like a step backwards, but good luck finding 16 channels of mic pres and a recorder for $800 anywhere else. - Any interference you noticed is most likely the dynamic mics you were using. Dynamics and ribbons are both much more sensitive to EMI compared to condensers since they have to have transformers in them, especially when you start goofing around with them in very low-noise, high-gain situations. I once (accidentally) measured the distance of lighting strikes when recording (indoors) during a storm with a ribbon mic into the F6: each strike would generate a small audible click via the transformer, then a time later the actual sound of the strike would reach the ribbon motor. Fun experiment to try and replicate at home! - Lastly, I'd just like to note that you might get more statistically significant noise ratings on preamps if you use a less sensitive mic like dynamics or passive ribbons, or a 'fake' microphone (a 150-ohm resistor wired across the relevant pins). Most condensers' noise floors exceed that of most preamps, thanks to their higher sensitivity. Dynamics on the other hand have noise floors limited only by the impedance of their capsule, which is absurdly low (in the vicinity of -130 dBu or better), but their low sensitivity puts that point below the noise floor of most preamps. Long story short, dynamics will be much noisier with bad preamps than good ones, while a good, sensitive condenser, even a very low-noise one, will very, very rarely 'push' the noise floor of the preamp and thus should in theory perform well regardless of preamp quality. RaneNote 148, "Selecting Mic Preamps" is a good overview of this with some great charts. P.S. I purchased my F6 a few years ago after watching your video and a long history with H-series recorders; it's one heck of an awesome little box even with the menu driving. I've used it on everything from dialogue to full orchestras, no joke. I can indeed set it up in seconds, press record, go manage cameras (or even perform) for 2 hours, then come back and press stop, and it works without an issue. Way less pain and suffering than dragging out a laptop and rack of audio gear when I only need 6 mics for something anyway, and the audio quality is perfectly serviceable even for professional work. Thanks again for your great videos!
Hi.. I will tell you the set up that i has it and i need your help.. So thier is a sound come from the stage and analog mixer and my f8 zoom recorder so how i can get the perfect set up to connect the audio from the analog mixer to my f8 zoom recorder and take it out to the cameras? I hope you help me and answer my question.. Thanks
If I want to send two shotguns and two dji lavs to my f8n pro then output an auto mix to my camera’s xlr port, can I automatically sync the auto mix from the f8n pro with my camera? Or will I still need to do that in post since the lavs have a delay?
Just want to give a heads up on the new ZOOM F8N Pro. We loved our F8N and immediately picked the the new Pro with 32bit float and it is great EXCEPT for one HORRIFIC file destroying bug. If you use the bluetooth control to change the bit depth from 24 to 32bit or back to 24bit the recordings will be just noise, even though it sounds good in the headphones and appears to be working correctly. Probably a minor software bug but until fixed i would avoid using the bluethooth app altogether.
@@curtisjudd Fantastic Zoom support figured out how to save the files in Audition and all is good. Just don't change the bit depth with the Bluetooth app until firmware update.
I actually came back here to find out whether that has been fixed. I don't believe I have updated yet. I wanted to know the exact circumstance that caused it.
In case I do a live stream for a client, is it recommended to send the main out/sub to the Atem and then pick the ATEM as the audio source in Vmix? Or connect the Zoom F8n pro and select that one as the audio input for Vmix?
Hi James, "better" is super subjective and depends on the type of recording or streaming you're looking to do. But there are a LOT of simpler USB Audio interfaces on the market. Focusrite, MOTU, and others make straight forward interfaces which microphone/line inputs and none of the fancy processing that the Apollo interfaces do.
Thanks for your overview. I guess you are working on Zoom F8n Pro review. If you could cover exact internal signal flow. This digital gain worries me. Does the lack of analog gain (it was analog on F8n based on block diagram) could affect tonality? I heard that thanks to the 32-bit float limiters sound cleaner, but I don't use it and I really need clean soft portions of recording.
It very much appears to be post-fader level that you're adjusting when you change the "trim" setting in 32-bit float mode. It didn't seem particularly noisy in our samples as the noise floor stayed at pretty much the same level regardless of trim setting.
40:35 the 2A requirement is a maximum peak usage. So as long as the battery can supply at least 1A+ it should be fine unless you're using all features and inputs. I have not had any issue using a USB battery bank with a 12V 1.5 amp output and USB-C QC trigger cable + 5.5mm to Hirose connector, apart from it drawing so little power that the battery shuts off... Planning to add some RGB? lighting (to make it go faster of course) to offset minimum load. From some loose testing it draws about 300mA at idle or slightly under that which seems to be the cut off for my battery pack. I will also note that the stock power adapters 2A.
Thanks for the video and all the great and valuable information. Little question: would the recorder be able to generate timecode to a Bmpcc directly or you need to go through a timecode sync device like the tentacle?
@@curtisjudd oh yes that’s not good if it slowly drift! Than I guess I’m bound to buy 3 tentacles! I was trying to be smart of save a little money.. Thank you again for answering my question. Very appreciated.
@Curtis Judd Audio : Hello. Thank you again for this very interesting F8nPRO Q&A livestream. 😃 I just watched your review of the F3 where you say that the battery door does not seem durable. How is the battery door of the F8nPRO? Is it plastic or metal ? Does it Seem durable ? Thank you.
1:00:30 - More important hiring a producer. I would choose that over any tool or gadget any day. Yes to that. At some point the business warrants the step up, because YT channels can be a "going concern", a thing, not just a sidelight or hobby. Two thumbs up on that, to keep the shows, pre-recorded or livestreamed going.
I have been confused by the concept of using the advanced limiters with 32-bit recording, but now that I’ve read the manual, and discovered that the max input signal on channels 1-8 is “only” +4 dBFS, then you don’t have anything like unlimited headroom above 0 dBFS to process anyway. You still have to gain stage enough to keep the input signal reliably below +4, so why not keep the signal on the meters (so to say) where you can actually see what’s happening. This provides headroom for the underlying circuitry, and you still have 32-bit detail to work with on the low amplitude end. However, if you have a fussy ear, or a fussy client, and probably both, you still have to optimize loudness for the mic capsule at the beginning of the signal chain. Under-drive or over-drive the capsule, and even with 32-bit recovery, the basic tone of the signal could easily end up requiring loads of post-processing to sound acceptable. So in the end, 32-bit set-and-forget is more myth than truth. When short handed it may give you something in terms of a recording, rather than nothing, but a non-optimized recording on the day of the shoot will have to be paid for in hours at the DAW during post. I myself would rather get it as right as possible in the bag on the day of the recording, and spend less time at the desk after the fact.
One clarification: The max input is +4dBu (not dBFS). That can amount to a lot more headroom than +4dBFS and depends on the sensitivity of the microphone. But overall, I agree that set it and forget it is not and should not really be the preferred approach.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the clarification. I misread the spec since it says (at 0 dBFS) in parentheses right after the +4 dBu. So what’s the rough equivalency between dBu and dBFS?
@@curtisjudd So what’s the point of using the advanced limiter in the F8n Pro at the same time as running the recorder in 32-bit bit float? In this Zoom system, the limiter comes after the A/D, so it’s not like you have a chance to attenuate the signal at the input so as to stay below +4 dBu at mic level. If your source pins the dBu meter, it’s too late to fix. Where with a MixPre II you might have a chance with the analog limiters to save the recording. So I’m thinking with the Zoom, I’m better off forgetting the limiter and leaving myself all the headroom available. At the same time, is there a quality external analog limiter I might consider adding to the kit for sound effects work? Not that I would want to lug around an 8 input/output box to cover every channel, but a one or two input external analog limiter might come in handy once in a while. I see that Sound Devices makes single channel preamps that might do the job, a lot of money, but maybe worth it for high dynamics situations.
When it comes to the impact of Zoom versus Sound Devices on job prospects, a similar scenario unfolded with the Steadicam brand in Los Angeles for many years. Before its acquisition by Tiffen, Steadicam equipment had garnered a rather dubious reputation. Additionally, Steadicam was, and remains, an "All In One Box" solution, whereas higher-tier brands offered a more modular approach, allowing operators to assemble top-of-the-line gear tailored to their specific requirements and budget.
35:55 if the fader is set to zero DB it shouldn't be boosting or cutting so if you needed to turn down the output by X amount it would be simple subtraction from the mix output. I'm assuming this is the way the master fader works on the zoom I will have to double check that. Also curious about that slate mic feature so I've done a lot of reading in the manual. I think they went post fader so it could be used as a sanity check as in it bypasses most settings so you should be getting an output to Test almost no matter what. Edit: I just checked it defaults to zero DB. Which means if it was 4DB too high on the output device I could bring the fader down by that much to balance the level to a setpoint.
No, I haven't. Will take a look at that as part of the review. But I would not expect stellar results since the F8n Pro is primarily a field recorder and secondarily an audio interface.
@@curtisjudd Thank you very much for the reply. I would think something like the Sound Devices MixPre series would have similar latency performance then as they are both class compliant?
@@asterox101 Well, they can operate in class compliant or multitrack modes, both of them. I don't use either of them much as audio interfaces so up to this point, I haven't done a lot of testing on that front.
I saw a Live comment that asked if anybody bought one: yes I was about to get one when I noticed they were discontinued on the manufacturer site, after an email I decided to hold off a few weeks for the release I have a two digit serial number. I was really frustrated after recording something and having it come out distorted as the input was too loud for the iPod voice recorder I was using. I've only done some basic tests with my F8n pro, I want to get out and do some binaural and sound effects recordings.
were you using Bluetooth control? we noticed if you change the bit depth from 24 to 32 or back to 24 using Bluetooth all the files will be ruined even though it seems to be working fine.
@@SkyCoreLLC no I did not go that far. I did test the app but I had not recorded anything at that point. it's so new it hasn't been out of the house more than once and then it didn't come out of the car. I did hear that mentioned in the video and I was a bit concerned my unit however did come with version 1.02 so I wonder if that includes some fixes?
@@curtisjudd unfortunately there is no gain control on the iPod adapter i used, I did have it in line level mode. The Behringer mixer I was connected to was slightly preset up and I didn't want to mess with it. For that shoot we were going to have a primary camera and I was going to assist with everything else instead I ended up running the entire three camera shoot for my friend. So the iPod was a last minute just in case we have audio issues, as a signal was going from a wireless mic to the mixer and into the camera.
The F8n Pro is certainly LESS EXPENSIVE. But if you're thinking of the purchase in terms of an investment, note a couple of things: Zoom products are less repairable (Zoom does not have repair services - just warranty and replacement if you're still in the warranty period and if you didn't damage the product yourself), and the resale value on Zoom recorders is generally lower than on Sound Devices recorders. So yes they are more affordable, but they have some downsides.
It's true. But hey, I didn't write it or direct it, so I make no claims to how good or bad it is. I just think it sounds pretty good and I'm proud of it for my first feature film. And I've been emailing Curtis for a few years now so I feel like I need to share my small sound victories with him! I have two more movies coming out that I mixed last year, so maybe one of those will be a critical success.
Hi.. I will tell you the set up that i has it and i need your help.. So thier is a sound come from the stage and analog mixer and my f8 zoom recorder so how i can get the perfect set up to connect the audio from the analog mixer to my f8 zoom recorder and take it out to the cameras? I hope you help me and answer my question.. Thanks
Hi.. I will tell you the set up that i has it and i need your help.. So their is a sound come from the stage and analog mixer and my f8 zoom recorder so how i can get the perfect set up to connect the audio from the analog mixer to my f8 zoom recorder and take it out to the cameras? I hope you help me and answer my question.. Thanks
