Having a pair of "Red", I find the review quite accurate. The color in real life is nicer, richer and less brilliant as it appears in the video, probably from having the lighting focused on the sub.
I believe you are correct about the speakers creating too much low bass when used with subs. I have my KEF R11 ports plugged to reduce a 35hz bump in my room. Even just one port open causes a problem.
A lot of rooms have a bump there but the r11 meta exaggerate it because they are leaner on the upper bass so have to place them to try and embolden that which can exaggerate the low end too. That’s where the sub helps as I explained in the video
Thank you Bob and the team at Neat Acoustics for my one off Elite Classic speakers in you guessed I Flame Red they sound and look Fantastic even complement my RED Project Extension 10 maybe REL are catching up jumping on the band wagon
There is a lot to it, obviously acoustically treated room helps for starters, then a very expensive professional microphone around £1500 - recorded 32bit float, but then I do some post processing to clean the sound up even more, a tiny bit of eq and thats it - thanks for noticing and commenting
Awsome review, as usual, thanks Terry ! I wish you could show the high level connection on the amp side as well. I guess your Gryphon integrated would be interesting to see from the back side.
Believe Nemon has done the comparison. REL is much better in SQ “fast bass” and believe output is more than SVS micro too. SVS sound signature usually has little more fullness on the bottom end but could not say that for sure about the micro.
@@Pok-001 Thanks! I know people generally love the SVS app with all the controls. That was the differentiating factor IMO, but if SQ is that much better, I'm leaning REL. I'll check out his comparison.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem i mean a high pass, so that all bass duties under your high pass frequency is sent to the sub and anything above goes to the speakers.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem its always about personal preference and the system you are using at the end of the day. I found using an active high-pass had a much more seamless integration in my system with my speakers, but I can completely appreciate that you found the opposite worked better.
Yeah the text book approach says apply a crossover and have the subwoofer play just beneath the speaker, but that in practice means you have two separate bass sources that rely on being perfectly time aligned otherwise its never going to sound right and you having nothing to judge that from. With the double bass approach you have the benefit of more bass sources in the room which is undeniable as an advantage, you also have to get the time alignment right but you only have to match what you can already hear so its much easier to get it right. Then when you look at how human hearing works based on equal loudness you need loads of bass in the room to sound properly balanced and with less bass sources in play its much harder to get that right, even with good DSP. On paper double bass doesn't make sense but in practice it really does. I have done so many system calibrations now and they always sound better with double bass going on for music. Probably for movies too but I havent done it much for movies.
Note : the woofer is a steel stamped basket frame, I have done tests and the basket does make a difference , not night and day ,but can be heard. Still a good sub.
Hello, thanks for the great review. How did the pair of T9x compare to the pair of S510 you reviewed in 2022? Were the T9x noticeably lacking in your room? Or was the difference more a matter of degree? REL support has suggested a S510 for my speakers, but it's not in my budget right now. Thanks.
Excellent review. However I rarely hear RELs compared to other brands. Are they really untouchable in the subwoofer market? I bought a Dynaudio 9S subwoofer for half the price of these REL's it has the same power, Dynaudio's patented magnesium-silicate cone and hits a lower frequency than these REL's can. It also does not sound slow to my ears and integrates perfectly with my Dynaudio standmounts.
I had the T9i red edition. It was nice in every way, especially with the Rossa Corsa red paint,in all honesty no T9x is worth almost £1600. I have a Rel S812 and a Rel Carbon special.....and I don't see any comparison with the T9x red edition
I'm saving up to get a REL S/812. But since it's getting a little old now do you think a new version of the series S is coming and should I hold off buying one? I would like the see REL make the series S look more like the their Reference subs, that look dope.
Have you tried BK subwoofers , much the same connections as rel , im using 2 of their double gems for front left / right , just the high level cable , very well built subwoofers, but much kinder on the pocket 😁
Hi pursuit perfect system is bluesound node power or bluesound streamet better that sonos in quality sound to run a sonos one gen 2 and gen 3 sub or the connect amp yesterday was the first time hearing sonos one at my dentist office and what'd going on with the protest in UK just saw it on RU-vid thanks
I watched ur videos for a long time I saw when u did the demo of the klipsch rp600m ii I never in person heard any klipsch nor dali only with headphones on RU-vid but I can tell the difference would dali rubicon 2 sound more open and image better than klipsch
Hello Terry - There seem to be so many different approaches to setting up a sub (REL or other brands) it becomes confusing to me as a consumer to decide what to do. Would you be able to compare your preferred set up, vs that done by the REL person. From what I have seen REL say stick it in the corner and dont overdo the crossover freq setting, whereas you have a different approach
There are different ways you can setup a subwoofer depending on what your goal is and how well you know your room. If you want the most output rom a subwoofer you put in the corner as you get the most room gain, so the most bass but that will also generally trigger the more extreme bass room modes as well. If you just want the deepest bass out of the sub then in the corner might make sense but that to me is a waste for music If I was thinking more for home cinema, applying dsp and time delay then in the corner can work great, with when you have none of that I prefer making the subwoofer more of an extension to the speaker as I know that spot works really well in my room. I know that from measuring it loads and trying everything you can think of over the years. Like I said in the video I setup subwoofers different to other people not to be different but because I think its the better approach for the whole sound.
@PursuitPerfectSystem thanks Terry. I fully agree on not going for the corner placement for music. Not sure why REL push hard on that point in their setup advice. Greetings from France 🇫🇷
Time alignment - so am I correct in stating that you timelined the subwoofers to the main speakers without the use of any DSP, and with only the phase control function of the Subwoofer itself (as well as subwoofer placement) ?
It’s obviously not the same as using a delay control of a digital bass management system. But I have spent many hours doing that for calibrations so have a pretty good ear for getting bass to sound where I want it. I think it’s more about getting the subs to click in the room with each other but some movement can help I find getting the bass timing to balance left to right and support the mids and highs better
@@PursuitPerfectSystemThat said, you have only addressed Phase alignment and not Time alignment. You may want to be more clear about the fact that you have not at all addressed Time alignment other than the physical movement of the Subwoofers in support of achieving the best Phase alignment, room interaction, and blending to the mains for which you have running full range. Without addressing Time alignment there is most certainly a Fattening of the bass (for which many folks actually prefer), although how much so depends on the combined Acoustical and Electrical delay of the Subwoofer to the mains within your given setup. REL subwoofers being known to keep the electrical delay to a minimum, however still some exist, as well as physical placement of the Subwoofer(s), for which you often keep very close to the Mains (due to you often NOT addressing Time alignment differences), which does help to minimize timing differences, but certainly does not eliminate them (i.e. does not achieve Time alignment in of itself). As you might have guessed already, I prefer Subwoofer to Mains Time aligned and to minimize any Fattening (as I like to describe it) of the Bass.
What is time alignment - its delay and delay controls in a digital bass management would be the equivalent of distance so that is the same as moving the subwoofer physically. REL has a 8ms give or take delay in its high level filter so having the sub slightly in front of the speakers make sense but I didnt set that by 8ms into a distance which you could calculate, I did it by ear because that is taking into account the psychoacoustic effect of my room. Did I use any measurement tools to do this no, but I have used them a lot over the years and could never get a satisfying result psycho-acoustically with them either so these days I do it by ear. The best solution I have used is Dirac Bass control but it tends the put the bass behind the mids and highs, I prefer it to be slightly in front for the reasons I describe in the video. Its not about making the bass thicker, its about making the bass support the whole sound better
@@PursuitPerfectSystemAgree, RELs keep things at a minimum (8 ms or 9 ft) plus your ever so slight forward positionimg of the Subs, which still leaves 8.5 ft of delay. As I said, it seems to me that most folks don't at all mind 12 ft (or less) of delay. I on the other hand having setup countless systems in my 40+ years have come to realize that I prefer to keep things at a max of 4 ms. Although with the available equipment at our dismay now a days, I am able to hit (for all intents and purposes) 100% Time alignment (no doubt the room comes into play).
I have the dali Oberon 7 and i bought a rel ht1003MKII. What should i set the crossover at? When i get the sub tomorrow i want to get my speakers a lot less close to the wall. Now i have them close to the wall for bass, but i want to benefit from breathing space. What crossover should u recommend? Or just keeping the speakers Close to the wall? ( sorry for such a long question)
Also can klipsch new speakers produce sound and spaciousness like pearl acoustics sibelius and qualio iq when I hears these with proper headphones on RU-vid they are awesome and this RU-vid guy proper cushty was saying that he returned his rel t9x
Don’t base speaker buying decisions on RU-vid sound demo videos. Listen for yourself. Also some people don’t know how to setup subwoofers or don’t have a lot of experience with sound in general and can still have a RU-vid channel
@@PursuitPerfectSystemthanks for responding. I have Dynaudio Heritage specials which are very fast paired with one Rel T7x. I have my eyes on s510 as they appear to be a faster sub that match better but my room is 13 x 16 feet. If I they come out with something similar than I may peruse them unless you have thoughts on the matter. Ty
Strange comment this one, if the basket was light but the driver was heavy the whole driver would still feel heavy. Also no one ever handles the driver so marketing something no one is ever going to see is not marketing
The basket material (cast or stamped) has nothing to do with the lightness and speed of the cone. It's self explanatory a lighter cone is going to move quicker and stop and start better without having to use excessive magnetic power to achieve superior stop and start
Always enjoy your logical take. They should make other colors. Green, Deep maroon or B&W blue or even black. This color combo makes me think communist or UFW.
or.... you could spend about 1/3rd of the money on SVS subs instead, which have built in EQ, room boundary compensation and full remote control via bluetooth. in 2024 REL subs are hugely over priced and under performing. I mean the t9x has a -6db point of 27hz, it barely even deserves the name "subwoofer". That realistically means its -3db point is above 30hz, and you're lucky if its flat down to the mid 30's. meanwhile for less than half the money, you can get an SVS SB1000 Pro, which has a -3db point of 20hz, full remote control, a 12" driver and a smaller footprint. REL need to wake up and smell what they're selling, because it's not high performing, feature filled subwoofers thats for sure.
Yes all those points are true but they are not the reason you buy the rel. There is no dsp in rel subwoofers hence the difference in the specs, pretty sure there is a lot in SVS subs so it’s a different audible outcome as a result. I like SVS products and subs but they are not as fast as rel subs in the main so sound thicker and more throbby. The SVS speakers are the same I have the titans here so know this very well. Specs don’t tell you everything in audio and neither do measurements.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem this whole “rel sounds fast thing” is a myth that probably needs to die. There’s no impulse measurements to suggest they create a leading edge bass note any quicker than lower priced competition. The sb1000 is a sealed box, and uses no DSP to achieve its standard specifications. You know this as the pre dsp version of the sb1000 had the same capabilities. I’m sure they’re lovely in terms of build, but a t9x simply doesn’t cut the subwoofer mustard for the money. If a sub can’t hit near enough 20hz, it’s not a sub.
A 12inch sealed subwoofer in small enclosure is very unlikely to give you bass to 20Hz, I have done some design with big high end 15" and 18" PA drivers so have some idea. I am pretty sure they are applying some eq in the amplifier to "manage" the performance of the subwoofer to achieve this result. I have lived with both SVS and REL subwoofers and have calibrated many systems with both so saying REL's sound faster is true. SVS can be more throbby and impactful but not as fast and well defined - pick your poison situation.
You could place them there for more output but I know this room a little better and know that is not ideal for how I want things to be and sound and on camera too
