Speer Gold Dot 223 Gel Test: 55gr vs 62gr vs 75gr 

Oh, neat! I didn't know that. I was familiar with the 'flash' you sometimes get from a high velocity projectile when the TSC closes up was gasses 'dieseling' but it didn't occur to me that an instant of ignition could flash-burn the gel like that. Pretty cool.

That happens when i thrust my caulk in super hard and fast with all 9 inches of mass

Hindsights 20/20. I could've at least flipped the same block around, but live and learn.

I’d still use 55g for a whole setup no ?

It depends on target and situation. The 77 over penetrates. The 75 grain didn’t expand much more but it retained energy because of its mass but uneven expansion caused that specific bullet to deviate and tumble. Take FBI standards with a grain of salt, it is actually pretty arbitrary. Consider the thickness of a human, about 8-10 inches. So for home defense a 55 grain will cause more damage with less danger of over penetration. For hunting deer or boar the 77-75 is better.

you should try a good frangible round they explode in gel but people talk shit and i dont understand why

@@zachariafy4652 it’s because they don’t penetrate nearly deep enough. It’s not an ideal choice for self defense

How would 62 grain do in 1-7 twist 20 inch?

Try some vmax bullets.. i use that 60gr vmax in my 10.5inch ar, tested it on a hogs, its penetrate adequately and exploded the meat more than what the speer soft point did.

@@harisyoung4110 sounds good will try out

It's the super slo mo setting on my old Galaxy S9+. Definitely a nice use for an old phone.

If you mean testing the 223 loads with clothing, I doubt it would make a difference. Bonded soft point bullets shouldn't be bothered at all by clothing.

50 gr TSX absolutely drops any two legged target on the spot.

You bet

I had more luck finding it back in the pandemic when this was recorded then now. It's just completely dissappeared

@@TheKalkara131 Seriously!

Federal MSR is a very close stand in

Well, recoilgunworks revently restocked the 75 gr Gold Dots in the past several weeks. I ordered a box of 500 for myself earlier.

Safer for him and his knife. I expected him to break it on that last one.

How about 62 grain in 1-7 twist 20 inch

@@anthonymartinez3084 Should be fine.

I hand load with both the 62 and 75, they are both fantastic. The 75 grain bullets actually have a rather impressive BC for what they are and will reach out just as far as mk262. I shot some water jugs out at 450 with a 16 inch barrel with 1 in 8 twist. They still had enough energy to expand and blow the jugs up. That's impressive for a 5.56 in my opinion.

62 would be better. why choose 55

That could be a fun video. As soon as it gets in stock, i'll try to snap some up. That might be a while however, given the ronapocalypse.

@@jumpy5064 home defense round and the hydrostatic shock from light and fast

@@TheKalkara131 i havent been able to find it either. I was buying 4 boxes a month before corona

If you have a 1 : 8 twist you want the 75g

Those blocks are $80 a piece

Donate a block to him and i bet he’ll shoot it with whatev u want

@@deuce9624 they are very easy to boil down and reshape

Definitely looks interesting, I signed up to be notified when it comes in stock on a couple sites. Who knows, maybe in a few months it'll be available.

I have a couple videos on overpenetration. Check them out.

Geneva

@@beserkr3081 The US Military doesn't actually have to follow the Geneva convention on expanding bullets. They can and have used expanding rounds like Hornady TAP for Special Operations soldiers as it was highly effective. Ballistic understanding has changed over the last half century and expanding rounds are not inflicting unnecessary harm. They actually prevent pass throughs.

I've heard that too, just not sure how I could fix it. I don't have the ability to keep actual organic gel at the right temperature at the range.

While I'm no expert, I'd say probably the 55gr. It's going fastest, it's going to hit the target and expand quicker, and penetrate less.

If I can find some, I'd love to test it out. But it's not easy to find from what I've seen.

75gr Hornady BTHP is what you seek. It's awesome on deer.

They are quite rare these days

I think the barrel he used is a 1:7 twist. Speer recommends MV under 2800 fps for that. A little faster and the bullet should start coming apart before it hits the target. That would look cool on the gel, but probably wouldn't do much for putting food on the table. Anyway. You're dead right. I can't understand why so many bolt action varmint guns come in 1:9 and faster twists. There are like ten used Howas at my local cabela's right now. They want $450. I wouldn't pay half that.

I'll look for some. Thanks for the comment

I'm going to do a gel test of M193 and M855 at some point, but I don't see why it matters if they're made for hunting. They'll drop humans just fine too. The FBIs 223 load is a 62gr bonded soft point.

These gold dot cartridges were specifically designed for LEO applications as the highest priority. I'll agree that the vast majority of other soft point ammunition is designed with hunting as priority, the gold dot was specifically designed for bipedal "varmints". Still, it's a great cartridge for hunting.

I don't have an 11.5" so I'm hesitant to say. Pretty sure that's the length Andrew uses at the chopping block, you can look for his videos on his channel. Either on the chopping block or ar15com

Im not positive but i think the 75gr was developed specifically for SBR’s

Well, if the projectile over penetrates enough you get a complete passthrough; that means not all of the energy was dumped into the target and just went to waste. Depending on what happens the VAST majority of the energy might go into the wall behind your target and not the target. And even if the round stops within the target, there's something to be said for the speed of the energy dump. If someone gently touches their fist to your face and gradually pushes, they can easily impart the same energy as a punch. Same energy, but one didn't even leave a mark and one broke your jaw. A round that stops in 12 inches dumped its energy 50% faster than a round that stops in 18. Admittedly, although technically all that stuff is true and seems significant I really don't know if it matters. As far as stopping a threat is concerned, that threat won't immediately know the difference if the round ripped all the way through or stopped inside him. It's relevant when they get medical attention and for their recovery, but for stopping or not stopping a threat bearing down on you? Getting shot by a rifle is getting shot by a rifle. And, I don't know the stats for one-stop shots for rifles; but if there's no real statistical difference between the chance to one-shot stop a threat with a .22 rimfire revolver and a 44 magnum Desert Eagle (.22, 9mm, 10mm, 45mm, .38, .357 magnum, .44 magnum have been shown to require statistically the same numbers of shots to stop a threat - ranging from about one and a half to two, so basically two straight across before they drop.) then I doubt variation within the same caliber would matter much at all. But whether or not it matters it's still fun to research gun stuff =)

They use the same testing for rifles.

@@angry_zergling Good post, dude. You seem like another “the more you learn the less you realize you know” person. Big respect ... we are too few in this Tier One Expert Because I Read 3 Articles paradigm. Good info in your post that also reflects what I’ve heard/read/experienced, including the caveats of uncertainty.

@@angry_zergling If the projectile passes all the way through you also get (at least) two holes which in a hunting scenario is definitely a good thing. Which to your point about 1 stop shots the reason the FBI focused on penetration is because if you blast a big hole in someone's lungs that is absolutely lethal, but they might be able to shoot and kill the good guy; so they focus on destroying central nervous system because that's basically instant. The other difference between pistol and rifle is effective range. Sometimes you have a weird thing happen where close to the muzzle you have so much velocity the bullet doesn't penetrate much due to rapid expansion, then the maximum penetration occurs at some middle distance, then the penetration starts to taper with impact velocity. To me it seems fine to say sure at 5 yds it over penetrates but out at 600m you get adequate penetration and to judge rifle vs. pistol differently because of that. So yea, recoil isn't the only issue. I would say worrying about bullet over penetration after hitting a fleshy target in a cqb situation is a bit silly because if you watch many self defense or police shootings you see a LOT of misses; you can't rely on hitting center of mass of a moving dangerous target to protect anyone behind them. That's why in my opinion the 18" rule of thumb is more about pistols than rifles. But again, I'm just some guy; what do I know.

Probably 1:7, I don't remember. Pretty sure this is an old barrel I replaced

1:7 I believe

I'm not sure, I don't have a 10.5". I'd say check out thechoppingblock or ar15.com tests on gold dot. Andrew uses a 10.5 in most of his tests, so he'd be able to give you a better idea.

62 grain xm556sbct3 or 64 grain ra556b

Honestly, I don't because as long as it's 1:7, 1:8, or 1:9 I don't care that much more. I know that faster is better for heavier loads, but the twist rate shouldn't affect terminal performance at 5 yards

1:9 can get by stabilizing a 75 grain bullet and 1:7 can get by stabilizing a 55 grain bullet those are far from optimal. Wobble can be pretty quick when a 1:7 is over stabilizing a 55 grain round and while it may have little or even no impact on the results, why not just mention what it is? It has a greater importance than who made the barrel and yet that was mentioned in the video

Not sure if I'd call 2750 weak, but I'd be willing to test them side by side if your serious about sending a couple. Email me, TheKalkara131@gmail.com

@@TheKalkara131 yep I'll send you some, I have about 750

@@TheKalkara131 email sent, your rifle chamber 556?

@@mblake0420 Yes

@@TheKalkara131 sent

Negative. Energy is relative to weight, speed, and distance.

Bare gel is part of the real fbi test, but really nothing of what I'm doing is actual fbi specs. These are mostly just for fun, with some usable info gleaned. I am planning on doing some testing in the future, a lot closer to the actual FBI barrier test.

I shoot deer with them every year out to 200 yards, drop like a sack of taters

Can’t say much for deer, but the Internet is full of video evidence of big ‘ol hogs and wild pigs being dropped quick with the 75gr gold dots. It has a higher BC i believe as well, when properly stabilized with the right twist rate

I have harvested a deer using the 75 grain Speer Gold Dot. I prefer neck or head shots when possible. It will drive through the opposite side if no bone is hit through the vitals. I have seen deer run about 300 yards from a vital hit from a rifle and bow. A good blood trail is necessary and this is why the heavier 75 grain is the better choice for deer.

Killed six hogs in the last year and a half. Shot four at ranges of 100, 175, and 200 yards using .223 75gr OTM with a 14.5". The two largest, roughly 150lbs, shot at 175 and 200 yards never took a step. The smallest one shot at 100 yards crawled under a bar wire fence and died in the brush. Fifth hog shot with 55gr M193, roughly 150 pounds at 80 yards, dead right there. Sixth hog roughly 150-200lbs, shot with Hornady .308, ran roughly 75-100 yards before bleeding out.

Yes, that's the most desirable effect when using fmj type cartridges like M193. This kind of limits yourself when using that type of cartridge because the shorter the barrel is the shorter your distance gets for the desired effect. The great thing about the Speer Gold Dot bullet is that it's designed to give proper expansion from a MUCH wider margin of velocity. The 62g & 75g is also going to be WAY more accurate than the M193 from 50 yards all the way out to 800.

@@TerminalM193 this brings up another issue... cost. Speer Gold Dot is at the $1 per round and at that price point i'd go with 308 all day, every day. if i want a rifle with a 14" or less barrel i'll just go with a pistol caliber. now if i'm working for a Police Dept. or Government agency then the taxpayer will be paying and i will not care. finally, i do not see any self defense situation where i'm shooting out past 50 yards and not needing a really good attorney.

@@ericmartin2470 This is why it's wise to carry firearms insurance these days.... It's become one of the necessary evils sadly. Personally, I use the factory loaded Speer in 223 strictly for home defense and keep around 4-5 mags of the stuff. I live on a ranch with just over 200 acres and tons of wide open space so that 50+ yard defensive shot certainly leans more in my favor. I also realize that my situation is an extremely small percentage compared to the rest of people that practice their 2A rights. If you ever get into reloading then the Speer Gold Dot is the best BSP bullet on the market, "in my opinion". The bullets themselves can be found for some great deals in both 223/556 & 308. I love taking the 62g & 75g bullets and loading them as 556 pressures and push the envelope of velocity as safely possible. These are also the most accurate softpoints I've loaded as well. They've done amazing work on large feral hogs & coyotes and took my first whitetail earlier this year with the 75g @ just a few yards past 100.

Before the gel test, I did keep 75gr loaded up in my HD rifle, however after seeing how they perform I decided to switch to 62.

do the denim test, you'll switch back.😉

All I can say is the people at the FBI who came up with that standard are smarter than me with more money to throw at testing. If they decided that a bullet should penetrate that far, and they're betting people's lives on it, then I'm assuming there's a reason. The only difference in rifles vs pistols, in this context as I see it, is they have more energy. Fact is energy dump can't be relied upon to stop a threat. Will it stop some, maybe even most threats? Sure, but there are times where the threat, due to various factors, may not feel anything. Ergo, I personally don't want to rely upon the added energy of a rifle round to stop a threat. Penetration, destruction of major vital organs and blood loss is the what I'm looking for. The issue I've always had with test setups like that is you can't do multiple tests and guarantee the same response. You may hit a bone head on, you may hit it as a sharp angle, may miss it entirely, etc. You'd have to shoot more to get more of an average, given the extra factors in that testing setup.

Bad guys don't always pose for the best shot. They have to be able to penetrate arms, heavy clothes and stuff too.

The FBI recommendation for penetration depth is based off an average of data that showed most shot coming in from odd angles, often hitting arms and extremities, before striking the torso. There’s lots of good info out there as to the “why” you are questioning

It’s because gel isn’t a human, they calibrated it to be 12-18 equaling effective penetration to stop a person, and factors in bone and all that. It’s not that people are 12-18 inches and react the same as a gel block

May be one of the dumbest and most ignorant comments I’ve ever read.

Point blank range is any distance where you can hit your target without compensating for bullet drop. My 308 has a max point blank range of almost 300 yards when aiming to hit an 8” target. I realize that you meant very close range, but that isn’t the whole meaning of point blank. I agree about the short ARs. Seems silly to take a high velocity rifle cartridge and cut off it’s balls with a tiny barrel. Anyone who uses one of those indoors against an intruder will be blind and deaf after the first shot.

…no they won’t. There is an uncountable amount of people making entry with SBRs that aren’t blind and deaf. I know from experience. Please refrain from giving bad advice.

@@dcskating08 "May be one of the dumbest and most ignorant comments I’ve ever read." If you have something useful to say then say it, I'm a long range shooter and my upclose game is quit inpressive also, and have shot every infantry weapon in the USMC arsenal. It's amazing how people like you gather enough balls to insult someone when there's no chance of a physical altercation. Time to grow some hair boy, and become a man!

I don’t intend on teaching you CQB ballistics on a RU-vid comment. No one cares about your experience. I can assure you I have more of the real deal. I don’t need to dick measure with you online. Point blank range absolutely matters with a rifle. No one with any knowledge prefers to clear a house with a fucking pistol or 20” rifle.

Just Incase anyone doesn’t wanna waste 20 minutes the day