SPILLING THE TEA || The Poppy War RANT REVIEW || ivymuse 

I dunno. I'm not Asian but I consume a lot of Eastern media. And while they're much more open to writing tragic stories than the West, they usually don't have near the tonal whiplash The Poppy War has. TPW is two very different books smooshed together: A generic but mildly enjoyable school drama, and tragedy porn with no interesting, likable, or developed characters. I don't want to wave away its massive plot and character issues as "It's just cultural differences, honey!"

@@jessip8654 I absolutely understand that, and I only intended to point out cultural differences as an explanation for some issues, and why I personally find it worth reading. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I will say the school parts always had a sense of dread and foreboding to me? Depends on everyone's reading and interpretation.

I really appreciate that point about cultural trauma. My grandfather was born in the Philippines, and he was terrorized and tortured by the imperial Japanese army. It wasn’t healing for me to read this book - if anything, my experience made it more painful - but it means a lot to me that this story was told. I have not seen my grandfather’s story acknowledged in popular history or media.

*MILD SPOILERS* and this is gonna be tldr lol I agree wholeheartedly about Rin being a very VERY dislikable MC (especially now that the last book is out). I have never hated an MC so much before (not because of her writing or bad characterization, actually her characterization was so intentionally flawed that it made me appreciate Kuang's writing a lot more. Rin was never intended to be a good hero a la Harry Potter. She was meant to be flawed and intelligent but also dumb and temperamental because she's a misguided kid who was given immense destructive power after lots of trauma and there are so many ways that could go. And again, she's a kid not a 20-something who's mature beyond her years the way most YA protagonists are. She doesn't have moral or intellectual ascendancy.) And I don't remember where she said it, but in an interview Kuang said the publishers originally wanted TPW to be split into two books, but she insisted on it just being one. I wouldn't have enjoyed it if it was an academia book first, then a wartime book second because that would be such a weird change in tone within a series. As for the pacing, I don't mind it. It's not an academia book (which the OP probably expected). It's a grimdark fantasy book. And besides I don't think one book should be fenced in to just one "trope". The changes served the story. I didn't want each book to be one year in Sinegard. I didn't care for the petty school squabbles between the characters, or the info dumping from teachers beyond what was done. The abrupt change from school life to war time in both the plot itself AND the book's pacing was intentionally jarring. The students were in their little bubble of an elite difficult school, where everything is theory and no lives are truly lost when they make bad strategies. Then to have the enemy marching towards the SCHOOL itself...it's jarring and Rin and Kitay actually had a little moment of terrified nervousness right before the Federation came. She's a kid who went to the academy because she was looking for an escape (that she can afford), she didn't go to Sinegard to consciously become a participant in a war she never thought about. So naturally she'd panic about the sudden war she's thrust into without having completed her education or going through training. She never really had goals anyway. She was going through each phase in her life without a big picture because she didn't have that luxury before. I'd advise reading through the rest of the series to understand how Rin's theories in school get realized through the rest of the story, to varying effects. Kuang did a decent job at tying the 2nd and 3rd books with the events from the 1st book. And I don't think the second half was tragedy porn. If you read history books specific to a particular event exactly like the Rape of Nanking, you might consider it tragedy porn but it's just really how things went. Even my history books went into very gorey detail about Japanese occupation in the Philippines. Kuang wanted to get that message across. That wartime isn't just about generals and commanders poring over maps in a war room. It's about soldiers dying and civilians being tortured in ways you didn't think humans could think of doing to other humans. I also don't mind some characters getting pushed aside because IDK, maybe it's just me but it's like how I loved a lot of my teachers back in grade school but once I graduated to high school they're not in my life anymore, same with my classmates. I don't mind being introduced to some characters then have them not mentioned again because that's what minor characters are for. Not all characters with names and lines have to stick around. Besides, a lot of the characters return across the series in some way or another. Kuang said she wrote to get messages across, not mainly to tell a fictional story. So characters represent SOMETHING to either the MC or the reader, may it be a key person in history, or an idea. I can't get into examples because spoiler lol like she doesn't write to Tutor Feyrik or even Kesegi because she wanted to forget everything before Sinegard (new school new me lol). IDK maybe it's the OP's preference the way you get "gangs" like in Six of Crows or something, but I get the changes in cast of characters. It works for this. OP could read the second book to get more into the "second" cast of characters WHILE returning to some of the old ones. Also that whole insubordination and kind of falling in love with Altan while being assholes to each other is representative of how people can get into toxic relationships. Rin craves approval (whether that makes sense to us or not it doesn't matter because that's how Rin's mind works, approval gives her purpose and I'm sure some of us can relate to that to some degree), and when she doesn't get it from people she admires, she works her damn hardest to get it, she's addicted to approval. Falling in love with Altan is also Rin's way of understanding love. She never understood what love was because she was never shown it, so she THINKS what she feels for Altan is love. But really it's dependency the way a drug addict loves drugs they've become dependent on. Altan's anger and opinions became Rin's opinions because she never had her own other than thoughts of self-preservation by being so powerful no one can hurt her. Altan and her own experience under Shiro then switched her goals to those of vengeance, for what they did to Altan and now her and by extension Speer, and also because of everything she saw throughout the war. Her anger towards the Mugenese was building throughout the story I don't understand how "it was out of character for her". Rin isn't smart, let's get that out of the way lol she doesn't understand half of what they were studying, she's just good at memorizing and repeating sht like a parrot. She's okay at thinking on her feet and ruthless enough to be a good soldier but not a commander. She's a "the end justifies the means" kind of person and most of her goals are emotionally driven (anger, revenge, self-preservation) than well-thought out, because again, girl doesn't think long-term. She THINKS she does, but really...she doesn't. She's an impulsive lil sht. Everyone is entitled to their opinions though, I recognize that too. This series is one of my favorites of all time (perhaps even my ultimate favorite), but I acknowledge its faults too or how people would dislike it. This was Kuang's first ever story (she never wrote anything before this one) and I think it's pretty heckin good for someone this young who never planned on being a writer and never really practiced it. It was a great exploration of things we don't really see in books these days: a highly flawed anti-hero with little to no redeeming factor as a protagonist, emotional abuse/dependency, the realities of war time, vaguely romantic but also toxic relationships, male-female best friendship without an unrequited love trope, shamanism or magic where rules are unclear because you're reading from the perspective of the protagonist whose teachers taught her only bits and pieces because of their own motives, a slow descent into madness, drug addiction, etc.

I'm Asian, can't confirm this. The plot points were just convenient to push along the failed narrative where nothing really happens. But look. we need Rin to be bad at war now, ok she's bad. Look, we need Rin to pass a test, ok she's learns the best kung-fu in a few weeks and puts Rocky to shame. It's laziness.

Totally agree with this

You prolly dont give a shit but if you are stoned like me atm you can watch pretty much all of the latest series on InstaFlixxer. Have been watching with my girlfriend for the last few days =)

@Jasper Augustus yup, I have been using InstaFlixxer for since december myself :D

There's almost always a reasoning WHY an author made a decision unless they are just writing random words. doesn't make it a good decision

except the author doesn't write that into the story; about how sudden it is and where everything is heading, etc. Rin is just suddenly there, and basically does nothing (besides her early burst of flame). and Now we're supposed to believe she's from Speer, why?, because some of the commanders were like "you're just like Altan." Kuang kind-of force feeds us during the second half of the book and i don't feel like it was earned at all. BTW, i did actually enjoy chapter 21 with the massacre aftermath, so i do enjoy the brutality of the war depicted, it just felt like Rin was a vessle for us to see this, rather than her actually being a part of it.

she's the type of a reader who needs to be spoon-fed

The novel doesn't add anything to our understanding of that history. You kinda just note it mentally like, oh yeah Wudang Mountains are real. .......so what? Feels like another popular but awful novel Ready Player One, where we keep a checklist of allusions but forget the fact that we read for creativity and originality. Renaming things and people from real historical events is hardly creative writing.

Same with me. And for me personally I found the disappearing of the characters more realistic than if they stayed. They were never trained to stay together after graduating and it showed how war changes everything of the environment around you - from atmosphere to the people around you.

Of course, Rin will make logical and rational decisions sitting in a classroom. She's in a safe environment, there are no real stakes and her decisions will not lead to the death of thousands. War is different. You don't have time to rethink your choices. If you're right then good. If you're wrong, then it's your fault. Rin had no experience in command before either. It's not like she spent a couple of years under a general gaining experience, no. She was just thrust into war like thousands of others and had to trust her instincts and she did the best she could. And guess what she broke down under the pressure. I'm sorry if she's not perfect and doesn't always do the right thing. Also, when does she even make major decisions in the second half of the first book. All she does is follow Altan. Now you can ask, "Why does she always follow Altan, why is she so obsessed with him?" Well, that question has a very very long answer that I'd rather not get into right now. And also, Rin goes on a corruption arc. She's never meant to make the right decisions. She's hot-headed, reckless, and impulsive, but she still makes an extremely compelling character which is one of the reasons why "The Poppy War" is loved by so many.

The book never says she's a skilled strategist. She's good, but not amazing. Kitay is the true strategist of the series. The series actually explicitly says she's a good fighter, not a good commander.

The book does a complete 180 and undergoes a major tonal shift. I recommend reading the entire book before calling it cliche, though I admit the first part does have quite a few tropes.

@@blith7021 you are right. I always feel guilty judging too soon. It is just there are so many good books waiting for me, calling to me... Mcguire, Abercrombie , Sanderson etc. So I choose to abandon a book paling on me. Maybe I am wrong but I can live with it. I appreciate your comment a lot.

@@arlenelewis1908 Yeah, no worries! The book isn't for everyone and props to you for prioritizing books you actually enjoy.

Hello! I'm 3 months late to replying to you but just in case you're still stressing, I wanted to tell you that people being there, and then not, was something I really liked in the Poppy War. I did miss some of them and hoped that they would show up again later but to me it was very reflective of real life. People come and go and that's quite alright :) PS. I hope your writing is going well!

glad you had a bit of a better time with it ;) on your spoilery questions: a) i think i remember thinking that it'll turn out he's not actually dead, but i can't recall the specifics :P i honestly believe he'll come back for a love triangle^^ b) that was so incredibly irritating, it made no sense whatsoever -.-

I completely emphasize with your opinion, despite actually really enjoying this book. Nezha's fate is actually elaborated on in the second book, from the sudden way he died it was set up to be resolved in the sequel. I agree that she didn't have a good reason to love Altan, but I think Kuang knew this and it was purposely built to be more of a twisted obsession and infatuation rather than have him become an actual love interest. Rin is obviously a deeply flawed character and I think that after everything that has happened to her, it's not surprising that she would latch onto someone like Altan.

currently reading made it through part 1, i don't find it to be that dark, (it its dark, do not get me wrong), but when i think of grimdark, i think of a..certain Japanese graphic novel.

It doesn't matter what the author's "intent" was. If it doesn't come across in the book itself without her having to explicitly state it then it's not that well done imho. And if she'd written the whole book in the style of the second part... then I probably wouldn't haven even made it to the end.

@you serious? Of course I didn't mean "it shouldn't have been set in an Asian setting", I meant that for me that setting didn't play a big enough role and didn't influence the story enough to differentiate it from the million other fantasy stories taking place in more European inspired fantasy worlds. The story as she had written it in my opinion could have been set anywhere. I'd love more fantasy stories in Asian inspired settings, but they also have to be well written ✌️

@you serious? I'm very much aware that non-white authors often have to justify their existence in the space and I'd never ever want to contribute to that. In this case my criticism is not of the setting or the "Asianness" of the book, but rather that I felt the author didn't utilize her setting fully (which I would criticize in any book by any author). Additionally, this is a very minor concern I probably wouldn't even have mentioned in my review had the rest of it been well done. In that respect, I don't think it's fair to sum up an hour long critique of a book as simply coming to the conclusion "it isn't written well", when I made an effort to go into a lot of detail and provide concrete examples of why the book disappointed me. I would also strongly disagree that I only ask well written books from Asian or non-white authors. I am always very critical of the books I read regardless of the colour of the author's skin or their ethnicity. On my channel I have A LOT of rant reviews on books written by white authors that I thought were terrible. It's always obviously just my personal opinion but I can confidently state that I only judge books on their content and nothing else. In addition I am personally very invested in particular in Japanese culture, have lived there for a year and have been learning the language for years. Of course this doesn't automatically preclude me from potential prejudices but I would argue it shows that I am in fact very interested in the culture and history of Asian countries (specifically Japan) and that I have no underlying problem with something following "Asian conventions" (which I would argue aren't even a thing because Asian cultures are very diverse and dissimilar anyway).

@you serious? Like I said, I never asked anything of this book I don't ask of other books as well. Unless you watched every single one of my reviews and can tell that there's a noticable difference in how I review the books, you can't really make that claim. Plus, I'm not really sure why you're now acting as if I was defending the atrocities committed by Japan in the second world war? And as if I don't know basic history? lol My critique was never with the setting itself, I didn't want this book to be set in Europe or anywhere you're implying, I just wanted a more fleshed out world that couldn't possibly be anywhere else because it was so distinctive (doesn't mean I wanted a stereotypical Chinese world, I just wanted a detailed one unqiue to this book). World building is very important to me, in any book, and I critique it when it's not as in depth as I would want it. As you said, you haven't read the book and so really there's no point to this discussion. You don't know me but come to all these conclusions about me and my motivations. You say you don't put me in the same category as the white dudes in Thailand but then act as if that's what I'm doing by mocking that I was "on vacation in Japan" when I said I lived there for a year. I included this because I thought you needed more context since you were making all these allegations about me having a problem with the book's "Asianness". I don't think that that's conducive to a productive and respectful conversation. Up to this point I've really enjoyed talking to you and hearing your opinion but this seems to have run its course, so have a good day.

@you serious? I'm not backtracking, I'm clarifying because you still don't seem to understand me. If you think it's a vague critique, fine, but maybe consider that I read this book and filmed this review two years ago and can't remember every detail anymore. Read the book, then come back to discuss the merits of a review. And I don't know what your vacations are like but I don't typically stay a year and go to University during mine. So peace.

hahaha true :P maybe I should start making my reviews into an 8 part series, it seems to be the latest hype ;)

Yeah. Pick a book series that isn't by C Clare or Sarah J Maas that you don't like & fine-tooth-comb every detail, at times quoting copiously from the text. Every negative comment is delivered like Harry using the basilisk fang to stab Tom Riddle's diary: with force & venom. OK it might be wiser to tone it down a bit. Flair & panache might be in order. You like rants. Paeans to your various fav series just don't give you the same adrenaline rush. Imagine how many vids you could make if you didn't like Robin Hobb's 16 volume series? You could talk your way thru 2019. :-)

that doesn't make it better. If you read a book in English language and then the author changes it something like Spanish just because its intentional doesn't make it good

@@ninjablack4347 I was talking about like how as a compliment she said it felt like the book changed in the middle and I’m saying I think it’s supposed to because her life changed at that point

@@juderudd1711 and probably her complaint was it didn't make sense because of the writing.

Yeah, if you don't like military, you definitely won't like the rest of the series. It only doubles down on the military side of the story. I'm curious, tho. What fantasy elements were you expecting?

This is the problem i see with a lot of booktubers; they love the book but don't judge it by its flaws. Its ok to love something that has flaws but you can't ignore the problems with pacing, characterization and info dumps

PREACH. I agree with everything you said haha it definitely seems like the author didn't know what it was that she actually wanted to write about!

FYI, did a little google search. You can make Saltpeter explosive by adding sugar to make a "poor man's gunpowder". Just so you know.

Or maybe I just didn't enjoy a book you liked. Get over it 😉

@@ivymuse all entitled to our own opinions, just caught me off guard with what seemed like vitriol. To each their own, cheers.

Speer is closest to Taiwan but only barely. Ankhiluun is analogous to Hong Kong. Also Korea was under Japanese occupation during the Second Sino-Japanese War which is the War that the Third Poppy War is based on. And lastly Japan and Korea are considered southeast asian.

@@EpikStorm101 Damn this was a long time ago - I was quite cringe then. I see your point about WW2, but Japan and Korea are part of East Asia, not SE.

It’s not, but the Japanese army did also terrorize parts of Southeast Asia. My family was very impacted by events similar to those described in this book. So I don’t think she was thinking of that when she said Southeast Asia, but I do think the book is also based on events that happened in Southeast Asia.

Aw, I actually liked this book :( but to each their own ig