SPIRAL: Was Chris Rock's SAW Reboot Really That Bad? 

*COMMENT below what I should cover next!* Go to betterhelp.com/ryanhollinger for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help.

My sister said the dumbest decision in the movie is plugging in a unknown flash drive in the police computer

Picking a SAW movie as your jump into the "Look I'm a Serious Actor Now" phase of your life is a wild choice.

The concept of targeting crooked cops is good. But I don't think the movie did it justice tbh. It felt more like a Chris Rock vanity project than anything.

I’ve watched Ryan for years but the way he edits in his scrunched up face to cover the worst of the nsfw scenes gets me every time 😂

I still remember when Chris Rock hosted the Oscars the year Saw came out he asked normal people at a movie theater what their favorite movie of the year was. One guy said Saw. And Chris Rock seemed confused/intrigued by that answer. I was hyped because I agreed with the guy. (I was also like 13) I like to think the wheels have been spinning since then, and in that case... he got to make his movie and I think that's neat. I liked it for what it was and I was happy to feel like I was back in the world of those first few movies I loved so much.

I felt like this could have been a turning point for the series, but it wasn’t. The idea of a copycat cop killer going after dirty cops is a great idea, but execution (no pun intended) is everything. There is a good story here, but it just needed a few more drafts or a better pair of writers to bring it out. It probably didn’t help that the critics have NEVER liked Saw. If the day ever comes where the best Saw movie actually doubles as an amazing film in its own right, the critics will never recognize it.

I think the issue is with Chris Rock writing, we all expected something unique. And it turned out to be a totally ordinary totally average horror sequel

Session 9 please. One of the undisputed hidden gems when it comes to psychological horror.

The one thing I will give the Saw sequels credit for is continuing the stories of people like, Hoffman, Gordon etc throughout the film and not just replacing the cast each time.

It's perfectly fine for a Saw movie. The only thing that bugged me was how obvious the twist was. They needed to film the detective's 'death' similarly to the other victims. Hell, just write in that he killed a lookalike it's the Saw universe.

The closing line about the depth being as deep as the blood is fantastic. That would get an A+ for any essay.

I really like how the traps in spiral seem to be escapable on the surface but are really just killing machines that torture a person before their inevitable demise. The biggest problem with this film is that I'm pretty sure a sequel was intended to be made but it's never a guarantee that a sequel will happen so we just have a story with a bunch of unanswered questions and story threads that go nowhere.

I enjoyed it when I first watched, I've always enjoyed the franchise, I like them as fun movies. And I saw Spiral with two close friends, and I still like what it brings to the franchise, I just think it needs more updates moving forward

I actually liked it a lot. I like the hints it gives that schenk doesn't actually care about justice in the police system, rather revenge against those who had wronged him. I know the bit where zeke and schenk pour substances into an addicts wound is divisive and often called a plot hole but honestly I see it a key character moment for both. For all of the talk Schenk makes about police reform and stopping corrupt cops, he is willing to do the same actions against the addict. the only difference being that the addict had committed a crime, Schenk's father and the victims he cites did not. In a way it shows that Schenk doesn't actually care about all police brutality victims. he cares about the ones who hadn't committed a crime. A mentality that a lot of people discussing this issue has. Its always a talking point that X victim was actually a big bad criminal, with an underlying implication that they deserved it because of the crimes they committed in the past. Personally I think both Zeke and Schenk are very fascinating characters that are a bit limited by the writing and would love to see a new spiral that expands both.

While I haven't seen Spiral yet, I love what you said about The Batman. I loved the scene of him realizing how powerful hope can be, as well as fear.

A page out of the “book of Saw” and the downward spiral into chaos that happens from trauma and abuse (personal and institutional. That’s pretty much exactly how I interpreted it. None of the villains had a point and the fact that so many people interpret them as anti-heroes is a good bit of meta commentary, similar to how many people got the exact wrong message from Fight Club.

The Saw series has been in a downward spiral, but I liked your final connections to The Batman (2022).

Before I watch my short answer is it's complicated. As a fan I was looking forward to anything new with the Saw franchise. But this was worse than just a paint by numbers story. What killed it for me was the fact that the twist was not only predictable, but it doesn't really feel like its leading anywhere exciting. After the video: I'll admit that Zeke (though being kind of goofy) can actually be a good character given that he is compelled to uphold the law despite everything its cost him. And I love how you saw the common themes The Batman and Spiral have given that both villains seek to stop corruption in similar ways. Though I never thought to consider The Batman as better version of Spiral minus the excess of blood and gore.

The ending is one of the most suspend your disbelief ridiculous thing I've ever seen, the cops HAD to have been lobotomized to buy that whole set up

Come for the ‘Saw’ video essay, stay for the excellent analysis of ‘The Batman’

There’s no better way to start the week than with one of Ryan’s videos, thanks for the great video Ryan!

I feel the next Saw movie should be like a Paul Schrader script, something that delves into a character’s head who’s connected to the new Jigsaw game

Im honest, the "big twist" at the end, was one of the lamest "surprise, i was the bad guy the whole time" twists i've ever seen in a movie

Although the "twist" sucked. The only good twist was the first one. This film was really fun. Predictable but alot of fun. And I fully support Chris Rock going for more serious roles. I think he is perfect for it.

Too bad Chris Rock didn't act like this character when Will Smith pulled up on him he might had laid him out 😵😭

My biggest gripe with Jigsaw & Spiral was that they introduced new Saw characters into the universe, but there were so many from previous films whose fates were never revealed. Eric’s son from Saw II, Jeff’s daughter from Saw IV, the mother & son from the end of Saw VI, etc. What would have made for a much more interesting spinoff in the Saw universe would be to bring in those already established characters and let the fans know where they are now. Did some of them carry on Jigsaw’s legacy? Are others resentful towards John Kramer, who’s been dead for years, while people like Dr. Gordon are continuing the games? This franchise is 9 entries deep with another on the way, but there’s so much that could be done with characters who are already established.

Honestly I just watched it last night and kinda enjoyed it tbh just felt like there was meant to be slightly more to it and the killer was so obvious I assumed the twist would be he was helping angie untill she died (like I assumed she was dirty and was previously "reformed" through a jigsaw trap and was trying to reform the department by carrying on jigsaws legacy)

I liked it honestly, I enjoyed the voice of the killer being different, the traps were also pretty unique since this killer wasn't some genius architect and I think it's a good reboot.

As usual, great video, Ryan! I agree, there was definitely potential in Spiral to explore the hypocrisy of Kramer's legacy. Interesting that you picked up on the hybrid Rigg-Mathews connection, Rigg is why I thought Saw 4 was pretty cool. You could really tell Chris Rock went full tilt for this, regardless of how it ended up appearing.

I agree that this is one of the closest in tone to the original Saw's tone of a police thriller. I think it is better to have the series go into copycats using Jigsaw's image and legacy for their own twisted philosophy instead of adding on to the convoluted chain of John Kramer committing a murder that we just didn't know about. Like do we really need another story trying to milk Tobin Bell for movies that keep overcomplicating his story?

Killer: "Hello, Ryan. One of the 13 Ray-Con ear buds contains the code that releases the Spiral trap. You have a minute to..." Ryan: "HOYEVER." Killer: "Once again, well played."

I really hope that they continue the Book of Saw. Not Spiral, per say, but the Book of Saw because I really like the composition of Spiral and applying John Kramer as a cautionary tale or an inspiration. This was an interesting depiction of real life issues and I hope they have the censored trap on the blu ray.

I always thought Act 2 would have been interesting if Schenk is kidnapped and it's a race against the clock to save him. The trap is legit and damages Schenk's body, but Zeke manages to save him in the nick of time. Regardless, Schenk is left hospital ridden. That would make the reveal at the end better, since he really did seem like a red herring.

I have no idea - I gave up the franchise after Saw 3. By then the series had turned into misery-porn as far as I'm concerned. I get truly worried when fans tell me the sequels got worse after that.

Aside from 6, I think it's the one I enjoyed the most since the 4th up to Jigsaw.

I don’t know, I actually really enjoyed this movie. It was a nice break to have a Saw related movie that wasn’t all about the increasingly elaborate traps. I enjoyed this more than any of the later Saw movies, Chris Rock was a really pleasant surprise too.

I really enjoyed Spiral, but I'm also absolutely obsessed with the Saw movies and lore. I thought it was super fun to see a take on the same concept with new and mostly unrelated lore.

I think my biggest problem was it was so dull. They brought back the best of the directors and it's well made but Fincher they were not. Also, Rock is actively bad in it.

I think the concept was way better than the script could allow it to be. IF there is a sequel in the same universe where Zeke chases 's William while he goes Law Abiding Citizen on the town or another town throughout the cat and mouse chase with his same philosophy it could be a much more fun ride

Love your videos my guy. Your divulging of theme and analysis is always so interesting.

I liked Spiral. It didn't reinvent the wheel, but I liked watching it in theaters.

PLEASE reconsider the BetterHelp sponsorship - they do not treat the therapists on their platform very well at all, and they also don't really deal with any issues beyond "mild" even though their ads suggest they offer on-call support during panic attacks and other crises. Thank you 🙏

That clip of Somerset and Mills asleep on the couch is top tier always. Also, very clearly helped to illustrate the point! 💓

First 'hoyevver" drops at 0:42. We are blessed by His generosity.

I want more Saw films like this. Not necessarily with Chris Rock, but give me more stories about how the real Jigsaw influenced the world around him. Give me a movie about two different cuts of Jigsaw who have conflicting views of what his reasons/methods really were and they are in a battle to "save" a town this causing more escalation from both until things boil over. Give me a movie about a city coulcil of a small town with a perverted take on Jigsaw's methods that just use it as an excuse to kill those they don't like to make the town a "better" place (yes I know this is a exactly like Hot Fuzz but I still think it could be done differently enough to stand on it's own, maybe). Give me a film about a new teen in school (Bill) and he seems to be protective of the kids who get picked on, almost starting a fight his first day defending one of them(Tim), whom he them makes good friends with. The other kid is struggling to fit in also being new. The bullies start getting killed in really demented ways, almost like they are being tested. Bill, having had altercations with the bullies is the prime suspect but he denies doing it (even though some circumstantial evidence points to him) he states that he doesn't know if the other kid is worth standing up for with everything happening or if he should still do it to protect himself (I imagine the film with a lot of internal dialogue from him, being the POV character). Of course there will be red herrings to mix things up. Once everything falls into place and everyone "realizes" Tim is the killer WE find out that it was Bill all along, and he was playing Tim from the beginning. He then sets Tim up in a test that Tim is sure to fail, this making it look like suicide because he knew he had been "caught". All the internal dialogue will be reframed to him being unsure of Tim, and wary of what Tim is going to do, not because Tim was the killer, but because he needed Tim to do certain things for the plan to play out the way it did. He then mentions how Tim is not a good person, bringing up a small "bad thing" (a porn addiction or he smokes weed occasionally) that he uses to justify Tim taking responsibility for everything this showing how messed up he really is, while he already starts musing over who neesa to be punoshes next, looking at a teacher amd asking himswld if its too soon to start again.

Really enjoying this reminder that I love it when the Batman franchise dips its toes into horror. I'm also rather happy to see this return to the Saw franchise.

I love how we secretly also got a baby disection of the batman by Ryan at the back half of this video haha. Great Video man.

First time ever commenting on this channel even though I love it very much. As someone who enjoys the saw franchise entirely (my favourite is actually 7 even though it’s not the best, it just feels nostalgiac and fun), Spiral felt really fresh and new for the series and I really enjoyed it. It’s a nice return to practical effects and tension. Thank you for covering it!!

I personally love the Saw series (Saw 2 is my favourite), This film was also the first one I got to see in theaters, I honestly just thought it was boring and personally I think Boring is the worst thing a Saw movie can be. I thought the basic idea was good but the actual traps were uninspired and boring to watch, and the villian twist was so shockingly obvious that I would have preferred if we the audience just knew from the begining.

When I was growing up and first getting into horror, it was during that little "torture porn" era. In fact I actually don't like supernatural horror at all. As such I have some pretty strange choices when it comes to the whole horror comfort food concept you've brought up before. Saw 1 and 2 for example. So every time a new Saw comes out, I feel like I have to see it, despite how soulless the franchise became. Given the retrospective of seeing them all, I'd say the two biggest mistakes all the sequels make is this, number 1, the ever growing over emphasis and over complexity of the traps. Number 2, the fact that a "unpredictable" twist at the end became obligatory. This is because it's essentially what made the first so legendary, but attempting to reproduce that everytime made the whole series a mess. I mean, at this point, half of any entry in the franchise is flash backs cause they killed jigsaw off way too early to keep making them. Lol

Funny thing is the skin with the partner's tattoo I sniffed out as a fake because of the paint that was found in the box. I don't think it was intentional but I definitely said "Oh, the paint. This tattoo must be a fake."

I didn't finish reading the title and got excited someone was finally showing som love to the movie based on the Junji Ito story

This film was a really pleasant surprise for me; I wouldn’t call it “the best Saw film”, but I think it competes with the original for “best film in the Saw franchise”, if you get the distinction. Not perfect at all, but charmingly flawed.

I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. The traps were great, but it was Chris Rock that was the best part. Plus, this makes two Leathal Weapon actors in the SAW universe.

Love your content bro, thank you

I liked this movie, the villain was underwhelming but the flow was subtle and fitting for a copycat killer and it seemed like a cop drama.

Glad to see plenty of comments calling out betterhelp

damn ryan. i love how you can take a movie i had lots of problems with and point out al the best things about it in a reasonable way. i honestly think this film would have turned out a lot better of the main character wasn’t played by chris rock. i hate to say that but he just wasn’t capable of carrying this role. but otherwise it looks great visually and definitely has a lot of good points in it, and i always love the traps!

Love your work my dude.

I always respected Spiral for trying to do something new with the series instead of just repeating Saw 2 for the nth time (I love the whole series but I could not tell you the difference between Saw 4, 5, and 6) I'm still holding out hope for a Spiral 2, I'd really love to see what they do with Zeke and William going forward.

I genuinely love the original Saw and honestly I really loved Spiral. I’d probably put it as my second or third favorite in the franchise.

I get the impression that Spiral stuck to surface level on some of its points so that a sequel could be made

Great Video, would love to see a full video on The Batman!

I really liked it, but it felt like it suffered from edits. Whether they came from studio notes, rating chasing, test audiences or any of the other silly reason a film goes under the knife, Spiral felt like someone came in and just took heaping spoonfuls of narrative from it.

Great analysis as always, although I stopped watching the ‘Saw’ movies after the second failed to recapture the magic of the first. Not a modern horror, but I’d love to see you cover an older classic, ‘The Legend of Hell House’.

It's another solid guilty pleasure for the SAW canon that is somewhat tainted by the fact that the ingredients were there for something legitimately great. I've described the movie's shortcomings as basically Rock's ambition rubbing up against the constraints of Darren Lynn Bousman's storytelling capabilities

I was dealing with the effects of a double shot depresso, Hoyever, I realized there was a new Ryan Hollinger video to get me through the day.

As a huge saw fan this movie was everything I wanted after Jigsaw. The return to the editing and color grading of the original movies made me really happy.

This was my first movie in theatres post lockdown and I did enjoy it. I thought the twist however was kinda dumb

Another great video Ryan ! But how is the eye ? Guessing dodgeball ?

Came here for the Spiral review, got a very much appreciated Batman review! I really liked Batman and seeing you say your opinions on it for a few minutes was such a pleasant surprise.

I truly enjoyed it. The characters were the best in any of the previous films, since we learend about Jigsaw/John Kramer. It also got me more excited for the potential future of the franchise, after being burned out on a 4 film arc about Detective Hoffman, retconning and rewriting the past to accommodate the present, and a declining quality due to the repetitive nature with nothing new added. There were many things that worked for it, mainly the fact it shows that John Kramer's legacy has indeed lived on, and can live on within the world of Saw, without constantly needing to inject him into the story. We know his history, there is nothing that needs to be added, or shown that would give any revelation we cannot already perceive. Shnek using Jigsaw's methods is very smart, when you consider that Kramer was the only known suspect, and the others were discovered too late (Hoffman), never known about (Dr. Gordon and his crew), got away with it as far as we know, (Logan), or dead (Amanda). Shnek is both an interesting blend of Kramer's philosphy where a choice is to be given, and the other's skewed view where the game has to he rigged. This attitude Kramer had, is what allowed him to get away with it and go as long as he had. But with Tapp catching up to him twice, he knew his time was running thin, and was only slowed by his cancer. The rest, Amanda to Shnek, failed and were discovered because of either their narcissistic take on Kramer's M.O (Amanda, Logan, Shnek) or ego and hubris (Hoffman). It shows that there can never be another Jigsaw, whereas legacy films like Scream, show that (regardless of personal feelings we have on the writing or characters) another Ghostface will be as impactful as the original, but never surpassing. Giving the film a more procedural structure, mirrors the first film's attempt and splicing in a detective story into a horror story about what freedom's price is and if you can pay it or show that you are truly weak, and accept your fate. The first 4 Saw films presented a question: Who is this person and how are they getting away with this? Holy shit, he is nearly beaten to death and the cops are after him, how is this going to end? With Jigsaw dead, and Amanda dead, but Matthews seemingly free, what is next? Holy shit, Hoffman is the new heir, how will he get away with this? Each question built the drive and want for a continuation. With Saw V, the question became: Wow! Hoffman was discovered but got away with it, and killed the only one who knew, how is he going to get away with it again? And then that question was asked in a different manner with the next entry. And then answered withing the supposed final installment, but that felt more like a repeating the process of Saw V, but with Hoffman found out about. Yes the question it asked was, "Who will be the new Jigsaw?" But with the quality and interest of the series waining, it felt it did not matter and that we would not get one. With Jigsaw, we were asked a new question, that felt as if the answer was already given to us; How many times are we just going to get a new Jigsaw heir, that deviates from Kramer's teachings? Spiral, asked an entirely new question; Shnek is definitely being hunted down by Zeke and the rest of the force, his face is known and will most likely be caught up to by end of day... but how many other people in the world, who never met or worked with, or were tutored by John Kramer, are influenced to dispatch justice out, when the system does not? And that is why, The Book of Saw, is such an amazing subtitle and concept. John Kramer's work as Jigsaw has been taken note of by everyone, for better or worse. His followers praise him and hold his legacy in regards of doing what needed to be, while not participating themselves (Eleanor from Jigsaw). His imitators (Shnek), showing the public that there are people out there willing to carry on the Jigsaw killings and use the moniker, should be striking fear into the guilty and corrupt, that they could be next. In this universe, living in a post-Jigsaw world, is very similar to the way that young women who dreamed of moving to Los Angeles, to become the next Hollywood bombshell, were both dissuaded and encouraged to attempt after the murder of Elizabeth Short, who would later be dubbed The Black Dahlia. I personally hope that they continue with this anthology style of storytelling for the Saw franchise moving forward. One off stories, that are continuing the legacy of John Kramer.

Are we cool with Better Help sponsorships now despite the fact they don’t offer actual therapists and there’s no guarantee you’re going to get their ‘better’ help..?

As soon as William asked to borrow Rocks cell phone i instantly called him out as the killer there and then. I hope SAW X will show more mystery IF it isn't a prequel to the other saw movies...

That Batman connection you made was just surreal and also on point!

Funny how you bring up the Batman (even though I didn't care for the recent one, so underwealming) I always felt like the Saw films were essentially Batman movies without Batman, just Batman rogues 1. Cops are either crooked or inept 2. City is dingy and crourrupt to the core 3. Jigsaw is like a combo of Riddler (traps and mindgames), Professor Pyg (the pig mask and surgical tools) and Ventriloquist (The Billy Doll)

I almost prefer your opinion to my own. Great video as always. Thank you, Ryan!

I had no plans to catch this one, but now I’m gonna.

Another great video!

this is more of a comedy than anything. Watched this the other night and laughed every time Chris Rock delivered a line. It was so strangely offputting.

Q:Was Chris Rock's SAW Reboot Really That Bad? A: yes it was

Loved the video, sounds like the movie is about what I expected it to be. Curious as to your full opinion on the batman (assuming that you didn't say it all here), cause I looked at it very differently than you did, but I think it was hard to overcome my expectations of a Batman film and character so I think I focused a lot more on different things.

It definitely was fun to have this be the first movie i saw in theaters in months. And a double feature with this and Tom and Jerry

A horror movie with a dodge ball player as protagonist.

I liked it quite a bit. I had hoped we'd get a sequel to this one.

Fun fact, SAW franchise wouldn't exist without Mad Max, (SPOILERS COMING), in first MM movie, at the end where Max caughts the one of the killers who killed his wife and child, Max handcuffes killer to the car that's leaking gasoline, Max gives killer a special saw that can cut the handcuffes, but it takes too long to cut it, so, much more easier and FASTER way to get himself free, killer needs to cut off his leg. This was referenced in first SAW movie, where first trap was similiar like how it was in Mad Max.

It was just a small comparison to the beginning, but I was surprised to hear the comparison to Garth meranghi's darkplace since I just learned about it and watched it all over this past weekend. Need more movies and shows with it's charm!

Could you do tourist trap 1979?

I never laughed so hard watching a horror movie as much as I laughed at this one. This was a dark comedy not a horror movie.

"spiral" and "how to not get your a$s beat by the police " is pretty funny how the black celebrities changed how they talk to thier community about responsibility as the serious take is a parody and the parody is serious.

Jigsaw's philosophy attracted messed up and evil people because his philosophy was messed up and evil. Drives me nuts when people try and paint him as an anti hero. He's straight up a villain. The Emperor and Darth Vader thought they were helping the galaxy in Star Wars too lol

I have never supported you financially, so I know that my opinion on this doesn't (and one could argue shouldn't) hold as much weight. Still, BetterHelp is a TERRIBLE and unethical company. It is not hard to find a significant amount of information on how they are not to be trusted, particularly in a field that is already so rife with abuse. There is a lot to discuss about creators' obligation to research the brands they accept money from. I'm not going to pretend I don't have a price, especially if I might be in a position where saying no has a severe consequence. I say all this to suggest that if you are someone who has struggled with mental health issues in the past, as you say you are (which there is no shame in, and I commend you sincerely for normalizing it here in your video) that you discontinue taking money from them. I wish you the best of luck with your channel and that it will continue to grow.

I actually like that the new killer wasnt a psycho path... just a regular person. It proves anyone can be pushed to the limit if pushed a certain way. I know it can be a concicered a bad message but the realism of the film is what i like.

i actually loved this movie prolly my 3rd favorite in the franchise. i actually really hope they give him the sequel

Every year one of my best friends birthdays fell on Halloween, and generally that's when the new saw movies would come out. So for part of his festivities our whole group went to see saw for years... into highschool. He died of an overdose after we graduated. I miss you man, I wish we all coulda seen this saw together. 😔

Honestly, never understood the thought process behind this movie's conception. They literally made a Saw spin-off, 4 years after a failed "reboot" that starred both Chris Rock and Samuel L Jackson. That's something I'd joke about with my friends.

hey man, happy to see this vid from you, but PLEASE look into how awful betterhelp actually are. youtubers rly need to stop taking sponsorships from them, it's just irresponsible

I was lucky enough to see the first Saw in theaters. I remember when the song started it had you on the edge of your seat.

Chris Rock has that weird scowl of a look on his face. It's a kind of weird look he has, almost don't look like him. Bizarre as he's a comedian and done comedy his whole career, then "BOOM!", he's a cop in a serious horror movie as the main character. He really did show that he had range and can act in any movie he likes. Yes this was the tamest of any of the saw movies. But it was pretty good. It had much more money behind it, and more star power. The first kill was the best. And they did alright with carrying on the series , and in the end was completely obvious who the killer was. That's what really sucked about the movie