The system is geared towards letting Kobe take a high percentage shot. That's the point. In basketball you want your superstar taking a high percentage shot.
@@seveneleve7-11 so is 44.7% horrible or what? t-mac,AI,vince carter all have lower percentages. Are you gonna be consistent and say they are horrible players? Only nerds cling to stats because they cant understand anything from watching the games.
Best offense until Kerr decided to combine phil's triangle and pop's motion offense. Warriors player movement is based on the principle of the triangle which gives them tons of opportunity and they swing the ball the spurs way. The knicks was too bad because Melo is a ball stopper and basketball IQ is not on MJ or Kobe level. Phil thought that Melo would thrive in that offense as he is a good post up and ISO type player. Defense either play him 1 on 1 in the pinch post or double him which will allow teammates to get some cookies. Unfortunately triangle offense is a complex read and react type of offense and Melo just could not get the right reads and so is his teammates but it's mostly Melo's fault as he goes ISO every time he gets the ball in that pinch post. Works for MJ and Kobe as these dudes has high basketball IQ with good supporting cast. Triangle is pretty much one of the main reason why Mj and Kobe was so good as it forces the defense to play them 1 on 1 (as long as they have the right pieces around them). If defense decided to go 1on1 they're just gonna score most of the time and if they double then that means they're leaving a shooter or they will give up back door cuts. Melo was just not good enough paired with some really bad teammates who was not smart enough to understand the principle of the triangle.
Mostly pops. The problem with the triangle is. Its easy to mess up. Thats why you need A+ type player to pull off. In the motion offense you just need fast guards and big men who could shoot mid range
Melo was also really lazy and didn't bother to do the little details that Kobe and MJ did(like actually cutting to their spots instead standing around letting the defense load up)
@@adey402 Kawhi as the main point of the triangle definitely can, he has a great midrange game The problem is, who's going to be your Scottie Pippen or Draymond Green when running this?
Get your IQ up dont just look at the stat sheet and assume we ran the triangle correctly. We was standing around like burgers waiting for my guy Melo to ISO
Knicks were to stupid to run that system smh, however Phil was headed in the right direction to get players who could run it by the draft & small FA players, then he got fired. Knicks now play middle school ball with no system and a clueless coach lol.
It's the players, look how the Knicks have been playing and on my Jr. High basketball team we run the triangle and our offense isn't that good but our defense and fast break points always keep us in the game.
@@mjtrace8391 only when you have multiple shooters. Triangle offense sucks because you just tightly mark the capable shooters. Warriors mainly known for their screens.
TAMA GOTCHI sucks is a strong word, it was used by 11 championship teams. 15’ of spacing i don’t consider to be tight spacing. It also places the less capable shooters closer to the rim vice a 4-1. You’re are correct Kerr uses screens; he successfully combined the motion offense with the triangle greatly due to Jerry West’s visionary player choices.
That's right! Tex is the master. Whenever the ball would stick or the spacing was bad Tex would instruct Phil or the other coaches and players how to fix it.
In fact, Kobe was known to be a "ball-stopper" when Lakers ran this offense. It was one of many reasons why Shaq hated Kobe during his early years. Source : "Showboat : The life of Kobe Bryant // Roland Lazenby"
@@frank1251 actually kobe averaged 5 assists which doesn't make him magic but he's not a nut, and kobe hit his shots, the source of their turmoil was kobe's focus in work and what was best for the lakers winning, while shaq was out partying and getting chunky
Densest no Chikara yeah I agree, kobe had a real nice fg%, but still, Phil Jackson pointed that Kobe was a ball stopper in offense because he always thought he deserved the ball more than the others. Lakers at one point had a signal that meant "do not pass the ball to kobe"
Right now the NBA has 3 triangle offense coaches that I ever seen today are Steve Kerr from Golden State/San Francisco Warriors since Tex winter's friends are Bill Sharman, Al Attles and Alex Hannum used to coached the best players in the 60s before Jordan and Kobe era, after that for the second one is Alvin Gentry from New Orleans Pelicans and Luke Walton from Los Angeles lakers.
doesnt matter if its repetitive, it forces defenders to switch up on defense which automatically creates space for the shooter, its pretty effective no matter what. they stopped using it because they lost some key pieces like odom and fisher
The Triangle Offense is basically a formation that will allow a seamless switch between a 2 man pick & roll on the weakside of the floor, _(weakside is the two man side without the ball)_ over to a 3 man pick & roll on the strong side of the floor _(strongside is the 3 man side with the ball)_ or at the top of the key. _(top of the key is the top center spot of the 3 point line)_ The strong side will also be based on which side (left or right post/elbow ) that the person in the center position slides. Now while one of those pick and rolls is happening there will always be an additional screen and switch by 2 the off ball players furthest away from that pick and roll action in the name of not only creating space on the floor but also in the name of the triangle being able to be reset in the event the ball handler in the pick and roll fails to score. The ball handler that starts the triangle sequence can either shoot if they are open and can make the shot, or they can pass to one of their four teammates to start one of the 4 options that trigger either the 2 man or 3 man pick & roll sequence. As this video shows the person in the wing position that has the ball is he ball handler that starts everything. The 4 Options are as follows,... *Option 1, the ball goes to the center position. This is a primarily 3 man pick & roll sequence* The strongside wing and corner players cut across the floor to roll by the center who got the pass. The strongside corner man runs baseline to the weakside corner. The strongside wing cuts to the free throw line. Either roll man will get the ball if the center can't get his shot off so that they can try to score. Meanwhile the player at the top of the key and the weakside wingman do a screen and switch. The the top key player moves to what will now become the strongside wing and the weakside wing moves to the opposite wing turning that side into the weakside. The initial strong side wing who rolled to the free throw line can now slide back to the top of the key if the triangle needs to be reset with the strongside(the 3 man side). *Option 2, the ball goes to the top of the key position. This is primarily a 2 man pick & roll sequence* The strongside wing and corner players perform the screen and switch to change spots. Meanwhile the weakside wing goes pick and roll with the top of the key player. The center remains in the post in the event the 3rd man option is needed. *Option 3, the ball goes to the weakside wing position. This is basically option 2 but starting with the weakside wing* The strongside wing and corner players perform the screen and switch to change spots same as option 2. Meanwhile the weakside wing goes pick and roll with the top of the key player. Once again, the center remains in the post in the event the 3rd man option is needed. *Option 4, the ball goes to the strongside corner position. This is a primarily a 3 man pick & roll sequence* The center screens for the strongside wing who will move to the center position. They will then do a screen and switch with the strongside corner who will move up to the strongside wing. Meanwhile the weakside wing will now screen and switch with the player that moved into the original center spot as the player at the top of the key remains in place in the event that the ball handler needs to kick out to them for a 3 point shot as the triangle is automatically reset per these movements.
They forgot to add in a very important variable into that equation: Kobe Bryant. The variable "Kobe Bryant" can break off from the triangle offense, and shoot at any spot on the floor he wishes, and by drawing double teams everytime he catches the ball, he opens up even more shot opportunities for other players. Without kobe, we would have 340 shot opportunities, with kobe, times that by 100.
They didn't get rid of it because of the players. The got rid of it because Mike Brown was not going to use it. He said it when he first got hired that the Triangle offense would no longer be in effect. Had nothing to do because Odom and Fisher left.
That's why the triangle was so successful; players are constantly moving, constantly moving. It's not like the offense nowadays where there's a lot of iso plays.
A question I've always been interested in is: can a volume assists point guard flourish in the triangle?? It doesn't have to be limited to just how Phil Jackson ran it, for I know that in his system, the pure point guard was obsolete in favor of spot up shooting point guards. But can u manipulate it in such a way that w/ the right personnel around them, a John Stockton, Chris Paul, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Steve Nash, Kevin Johnson, Rajon Rondo, Russell Westbrook, so on and so forth, can still rack up their own individual sexy double digit assists averages, while making the triangle flow?? Can u tweak it in such a way as to limit the # of hockey assists after the point guard's pass, like a run a pick-&-roll heavy version of the triangle, similar to how Mike Shanahan ran a run-heavy version of the West Coast Offense once he got to Denver?? The other four positions on the floor would still have all of their compliment of the pass and shoot options of course, with the exception being to have to shoot if in scoring position off the point guard's pass, for to not lower his/her assists figures, while the point guard has to pass no matter what the second there's an assist opportunity, and cannot shoot if there's any place to pass it to without a likely turnover.
Probably not. For a volume assists point guard, you'd be better running the Showtime offense that Magic ran. Where he has 3 major options. Usually in this order. 1. Do basic assists so that a wide-open player can score. 2. Initiate hockey assists, so that a wide-open player can score. 3. Score the ball himself.
@@x-man9473 That clears it up for me much. And you probably wanna surround a point guard in the Showtime offense w/ athletic wings + spot up shooters?? And then the Lakers were yet harder to defend, because they also had Kareem at center, who didn't need to crowd the paint to be effective, which would've clogged penetration lanes for Magic. In the half court, maybe I'd be okay mix in some triangle concepts for the hockey assists.
it's like tiki taka in football. it's the best way to unlock the tough defences but it's successful only by world class teams with world class passers like Barca and bayern
This offense was destoyed and exposed by the Dallas Mavericks during 2011 playoffs. Now the teams should beat the new kinds of basketball play executed by GSW the improved small ball of Steve Kerr
The spacing and scoring opportunities are good, however some of the cuts (top pass cut to corner) doesn't threaten the rim to score. I think legitimate basket cuts would make the offense better
More like Tex Winters system really but yeah Phil Jackson implemented it with the Bulls even though he didnt come up with it and he had Tex Winter as his assistant coach for that span too
youre right tex winter provided the system and Jackson the coaching thats why it worked so well hes the fucking zen master nobody is better at controlling big egos and winning championships than Phil Jackson
actually there are triangle combinations that can open the paint, making it easier to attack the basket. since the triangle has wide spaces that require fast ball movement, defenders have to move closer to the ball handler to double team, while the other 3 are moving around, positioning for a pass, 1 player is cutting. you can refer to this video with this title: Lakers running triangle offense in NBA Finals 2010
Just because teams know the triangle offense doesn't mean they can stop it. Teams knew about the triangle offense a lot time ago and it still won 11 championships. Even if its repetitive, it gives the offense so many options and the defense have a hard time trying to switch back and forth the entire time. Its repetitive but when its working, its unstoppable.
Partially correct, Kobe just know's a different triangle. Phil's triangle is demonstrated above. Kobe's triangle is 1 person on each side of the basket and 1 in front of the basket to rebound his shot.
I liken the triangle offense to the "run and shoot" that Kevin Gilbride developed. It's overly complex, and it doesn't work anymore. It relies on long twos, and at the distance they're shooting players might as well take a three. The triangle offense is a SHAM. For years it was pass the ball to Jordan / Kobe, and stand around and watch him.
RobotShlomo This is nonsense. Of course any system still requires talent to succeed. However just remember that neither Kobe nor MJ won a title outside of the Triangle and Phil Jackson!!! It's only those who don't really know ISH about basketball who make dumb comments about the Triangle. Go back and check the Offensive Efficiency rankings of Phil's teams verses the Golden State Warriors who won the title this year. Phil's offenses were just as efficient. It's not all about the 3 point shot.
And Phil Jackson didn't win a title the year Jordan went to "play baseball". Or does everyone forget that without Jordan, the Knicks were the Eastern Conference Champions in 1994? It's easy to win when you have Babe Ruth on your team.
PlatinumONTV Is it really not that comparable? I would assume their Offensive Efficiency would be a lot higher, considering that it involves both the Triangle and Motion Weak.
The triangle really isn't all that complex. Players hate it cause of the whole read and react to the defense, moving without the ball stuff.. it eliminates the PG.. running through the post. All the players that have struggled in the triangle are selfish, iso players.. 2 that comes into mind are Glen Rice and Gary Payton, even Kobe in his younger years Of course I'm kinda bias because i'm pro post play.. it's a great offense to run especially for post players,
It also helps when there is nothing that stops the NBA from fixing games because they are legally allowed to do it...and this is because of the fact that the NBA is a single business...rather than franchised like people think...this is why they have luxury taxes and require teams to pay that are over the rate small market teams can afford because they make way less money than big market teams...this is the same reason the NFL can legally fix games also...it's classified as entertainment and the only requirement that must be fulfilled is they provide a "basketball game"...or "football game" for the NFL for those who pay money to watch... because the refs are also employees of the leagues...they can never be charged with bribary for fixing the outcome of games...like any employee of a corporation they must do what they are told or they can be terminated from employment...the NFL has already admitted that games have been fixed ...they claim only 3 have been fixed but there is definitely proof of more than that....as for the NBA Tim Donaghy (might have spelled his name wrong) was given a federal sentence because he gave information to others( who then gave it to organized crime members who bet tons of money) that then bet money because of that information...it was a federal crime because the crime was carried out in multiple states...pro sports are no different than fake reality tv ... anyone who believes that it's real is an idiot... the NFL was started as entertainment for illegal gamblers and all of the owners of nfl teams when it started have ties to illegal gambling... Giants are included
considering offensively they've been putting up similar if not better numbers it's not really the offensive system so much as the lazy defense and no transition off or def..
I think it's more the players, because it doesn't matter if you execute it perfectly, if your player doesn't have a good middle range shot , they will fail even if they are wide open!!
People say GSW with KD > early 2000 Lakers. Outside Kobe and Shaq, Lakers has no answer for GSW's 3rd, 4th, and 5th best player. I wonder if the Triangle can overwhelm GSW defense tho.
Well that's why the players have to practice. Knicks have the entire off season to adjust to the system. Hopefully it just becomes second nature to them in time for the season.
Isaiah Quidilla Almost one year later and your prediction on the Knicks is almost completely wrong. Not your fault though, the triangle is very hard to master.
If you've got super cerebral players it's actually perfect because they can play chess with the defense. I'm more of a football guy, but I can tell by seeing this that it takes smart players to put themselves in position to shoot from wide open. Less smash mouth, makes life easy when executed well.
Steve nash wont be running much of this...Mike Brown only uses the triangle sometimes. very sparingly. But i agree, steve just being there increases the chance of them winning.
It's interesting that they use Jason Caponi as the standard. He has average speed and would be the mean in a standard population. Players like Kobe an Jordan are at the lower end of that distribution curve. So, It's the players that make the triangle work and Jackson knew that. I like to see Jackson take his triangle down to phoenix and see if works lol....suspect not
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the closest thing the Triangle Offense has to an "Achilles' heel" is a 2-3 zone. I remember when Phoenix's zone gave the Lakers fits during the 2010 Conference Finals. Still, in the words of Coach Nick at BBallBreakdown, it's "the best offense ever invented."
Requires a quality big man who plays defense on both weak and strong sides to clog up the low post, while not getting 3-second violations. Easier said than done. Amare was underrated. He also had to score 42 and 21 to win two games. So, play exceptional low post defense and be an offensive machine.
You think I did not know that before I clicked on this and commented? Tex Winter created the triangle Phil Jackson modified and developed it and made it a multiple title winning formula. Hence the reason why he is a genius. Why do you and many other people feel the compulsive urge to be the teacher of everybody on youtube? I know who Tex winter is and I know that he created the triangle. DAMN.
I guess the triangle offense wasnt used much during 2005-06 season when Kobe averaged like 35 point per game. And the second highest scoring player on the team averaged 14
His defense wasn't awful. The Lakers just didn't have any good defenders outside of Dwight. MWP even took a giant step back defensively. Steve Nash/Chris Duhon got destroyed on a nightly basis, Kobe was too lazy to guard non-superstars, and Pau Gasol was always a bad defender. While D'Antoni is a horrible defensive coach, the guy didn't exactly have a plethora of good defenders to coach. The Lakers were still ranked 14th (average) in opponents FG%.
