Spotify changed it loudness algorithm... What should you do? Support me by becoming a Patron: / whiteseastudio Check the studio here: whiteseastudio... Follow me on Twitter @whiteseastudio
My Mastering engineer and I always aim for a target of -13 LUFS. The reason being that it is easier for streaming services to to simply turn the volume down. When your track is submitted to them too quietly , then they will raise the volume by applying some kind of limiting. This is when your music could suffer as this could change the dynamics , colour and even the sound of you mix. In my experience , as long as your mix is in the ball park of -11 to -14 LUFS, then the results will be pleasing. Hope this helps :-)
As independent music artists, we now have the opportunity to create musical mixes with dynamics and air, and music lovers will be grateful. A lot of music from commercial artists still sound too overcompressed, and in a few years, they will need to remix their tracks.
I have only one song in Spotify and it has a snare+tom hit in the beginning which clearly gets an awful compression by Spotify. So there isn't just volume adjusting at least in this case.
It is still 4 db louder than ReplayGain standard. Spotify hasn't discovered a preamp slider, which would enable customers to lower the gain to a reasonable -18 Lufs if they listen to existing pre-loudness music, have decent speakers, or typically use software volume anyway, without provoking internet drama. The company could still preset the value, call it a standard and 99% of people would accept the default. Surprised how many people consider or try listening to music with VideoLAN player, which is a linuxy video player and used to do funny things to audio speed to ensure video sync, and has no functions for loudness/tags/dsp plugins. The host could dress as an elven archer prince. :D
If I listen to music and I think it needs to be louder, I turn it up. Louder tracks sound disappointing when compared to quiet ones played back at the same volume.
So are artists sending different files to different platforms? Say like, if I put a free track on Soundcloud, that track could be -6LU, so that when someone downloads it, and plays it (ie; USB cdj), it will stand up to others? BUT if I were to upload that same track to spotify, would I want to export another file and set my master to -14LU? i just did some file comparing with Youlean, and all of the tracks I buy off beatport are around -6 to -3 LU. yet the same tunes are all on spotify and dont sound compressed.
It's not how loud your mix is but how you make it loud. Someone with experience can make a mix sound louder at -14 LUFS than someone without experience.
When it comes on listening to music online, people preffer to have playlists, and is annoying to change the volume every time a new song starts. Besides loudness, this is another good reason for loudness normalization: No more loudness wars? Audiophiles/Engineers are happy. I don't need to change the volume anymore? Anyone listening to music in the platform is happy.
I want to know how to use Spotify on max volume, like my ordinary player is the best for me but when I play spotify all the songs are like 2 times volumed down. How to fix that? Thanks in advance!
Nice thoughts, I agree with your strategy but my friend, allow me to disagree... -6, -7 LUFS is not a such good advice. Lets be a little bit more civilised at -9, -8 the most! :) Anyway, congrats once again for your nice spirit and videos.
Or... Do what Ian Shepard does. Find the loudest part of the song and master it to a short term loudness level of -9. This usually comes close to -14 Integrated, makes for a more dynamic song and... works better than using just the integrated number as that doesn't always represent what is happening in some sections of the song.
It is really great video ! -14 LUFS okay but what do you think about dynamic range differences between - 7 LUFS & -14 LUFS ? (btw I agree with the strategy to send producers at least - 8 LUFS, if there is no normalization usage)
Possible stupid question from a newbie. If I'm mastering to -14 and then setting up -8 for sending out tracks, Can I just limit to this new amount or should I remaster from scratch? ie when using Ozone 8
The change happened mid May. The only change that Spotify did was to stop adding 3 dB of input gain into Replay Gain. We can say it's -14 LUFS ... but it's only an approximation. Replay Gain does not use LUFS as a measuring unit.. and how it (the normalisation) plays out on Spotify is slightly more complicated than so that we can count on only the "integrated overall loudness" number. siggidori.wixsite.com/skonrokk-studios/single-post/2017/05/19/Spotify-has-changed-its-loudness-normalisation-playback-target-level
This is no secret. That's what I am saying. They ARE using Replay Gain to control the loudness and they DID stop pushing the + 3 dB into it in mid May. When I notices the change then that's exactly what I thought had happened and a friend of mine that has been in contact with some of the developers at Spotify contacted them about it and confirmed that it was exactly that that they did.
hi,i want to know how to set the levels on songs on the spotify?i play them on break with my band .and one song is one level next one might be louder i have to run back.can you tell me how or can you?
what about the dynamic range, some of my tracks have different LU readings, what does that mean I should do? I want my EP to be level matched properly.
Dude, Thanks Very informative video!!!! In the case when someone download a song from spotify or from itunes?Then it will super quiet when compared with other songs right?
Good question, I think as long as it doesn't leave the platform it isn't a problem. So I don't think it's a big problem, since almost nobody does take the content out of the platform.
hey dude! i'm currently releasing my ep independently on Soundcloud and Bandcamp (both don't have loudness normalization). I already notice that on SC and bandcamp, my music is WAAAAAY to soft compared to the rest (it's around the -11lufs/-14lufs) and i also plan to distribute it on spotify etc soon and send it to labels etc.... I could make louder versions for SC and BC but that would mean that i have to make new ISRC codes right? and also if i do that, there's no certainty if the loudness would be comparable with that on spotify and deezer etc... What would you advice; 1. leave the settings as they are for all platforms 2. leave settings for platforms with loudness normalization but -9lufs for SC and BC and demo's 3. go down to around -9lufs for all platforms please help me!!
Hey! I would most certainly make 2 versions, a loud and a soft one and use the right one on the right platform. I've just asked someone that has got more knowledge about ISRC codes, he was already performing this trick with 2 different versions. You can use the same ISRC code as long as it is the same song and the file has got the exact same length.
Hey dude awesome! thanks for the advice. Just one more thing though? I also checked out this site (productionadvice.co.uk/spotify-loudness-formula) and i think in my case i also have too big of a difference in PSR and PLR (actually to much dynamics for loudness to work). So in the future when releasing music in the same way as mentioned in my previous post. Will it be better to make a more balanced master so i can use it on all platforms? Or would it still be wise to use different version for different platforms as they all have different specs... Oh en de groetjes uit nederland ;) goeie channel! (verder misschien tips for een broke muzikant/engineer om gratis plugins te gebruiken maybe??)
I'm having the same issue. what i was worrying about is that what would happen if someone downloads from bandcamp or soundcloud . will it be super quiet compared to other songs?
Wow! -6 -7 LUFS. A great way to make your Masters sound absolutely Nasty! All the best modern reference tracks I have ever come across (in my opinion) sit between, -10 & -14 LUFS
Before I was aware of this topic, I had one album that was mastered in a standard way, and I remember feeling like something was missing when I listened back. For me making music louder gets rid of all the loudness because the louder parts no longer can hit you in the same way. Having more space for dynamics allows more tension to be created, much in the same dissonance can produce a feeling of tension.
Great point! But when you say -6/7 LUFS for labels or AR listening...do you mean only when sending them direct files? Or do you mean also when uploading to Spotify? In theory, would it be best to upload with a -14LUFS target and share direct files that are -7LUFS?
White Sea Studio so I have a couple questions for you, since you seem like you're grasping this loudness shift far more than I am. 1) I have 2 songs I am mastering. Song A is mastered at -13.2 LUFS and has a min PSR of 8 Song B has a LUFS of -13.5 and a PSR of 8, but it far quieter than song A. How is this possible? As they both have a PLR of 12 and a PSR of 8...and their integrated LUFS are fairly similar. 2) if a song has a MIN PSR value that is low, but there is not a lot of compression or limiting on master bus, how do I fix the mix/master so that the MIN PSR will increase its value, becoming more dynamic? 3) With the LUFS standard of spotify being -14 now if song A and B both have an integrated LUFS value at -14, and Song A clips the limiter when appropriate, but Song B never gets within .5 db of limiter ceiling, will this affect playback on Spotify? I guess I'm short, I am asking if True Peak volume even matters anymore when Spotify (or any streaming platform) is normalizing your song. I understand that dynamics is HUGE now, and that we should aim for a particular LUFS, but do we still want to be using the potential max of limiter? I love your channel, and I know I asked a lot! I've just been searching for answers to these questions all week :(
Does this mean it's good to have 2 final mix versions? One (-14 LUFS) for online/download purposes, and one for live purposes (maximum loudness). Would love a tutorial on good plugins ( yeah I know you're no big fan) to use on analyzing the amount of LUFS on your mix.
This is the earliest source. siggidori.wixsite.com/skonrokk-studios/single-post/2017/05/19/Spotify-has-changed-its-loudness-normalisation-playback-target-level
I use the ebu loudnessnorm of -23 or 0 LU for television. And listening to networks in your and my country (yes took me 5 seconds to rekognize your accent) I have to say its not really working. You stiil have massive loudnessdifferences between movies or programs and commercials.Either there is no supervision or the timeslots measured are too wide.
RU-vid is still around -13 LUFS. And since there may be other stuff that play some role in the final loudness (e.g. momentary loudness etc) that we don't know about (no one has released any tech info on how exactly they normalize), my recommendation is to go with -12 LUFS / -1 TP masters and you covered from all sides.
-6 Lufs is the max just befor the sound gets shitty... but i pesronaly would stick to -10LUFs... becausr Whet spotify turns it Down to -14- it will still sound great
I second the -9 for a USB stick or an mp3 email, i.e. any file(non streaming, volume normalized)... Adoption of the -14LUFS does need to be top-down...however, at the top level, mastering guys have the AD/DA conversion to give u that pleasant clipping that retains the dynamics.... getting you into that -11 to -9 LUFS, and seemingly retaining all the dynamics, and warmth that people using little red Focusrite units can achieve only at -14 LUFS, even with the best plug-ins... Why would they ever relinquish that power that they wield in tho$e boxe$? I don't see it happening anytime soon with the big mastering guys...Na, artists will have to realize that they can master things themselves if they keep it at -12/-14 lufs....and forgo the mastering dudes. maybe it can come from the people who break in with this knowledge and continue to master their own stuff as they become more well known. In my personal opinion, Hip Hop and R&B stand to gain the most from this new loudness algorithm, as they benefit more from a greater dynamic range. Pop music will probably get its makeover once it cannot compete with what will come from the Hip Hop genre adjusting to this algorythm, as the big guys begin to borrow from the young producers with well balanced, dynamic tracks with movement. It will be the general public who changes it all, with their plays-- essentially voting for music that is mastered in this way. Its already started, with J Cole winning the Dynamic Range Day Award this year, with a #1 hit at -11LUFS. productionadvice.co.uk/j-cole-wins-with-dynamics/
I find this true, but there is another thing, you can pretty muchdestroy a good mix with a bad mastering, it's strongly advice NOT TO master you own work even as a mixing engineer. You pay the guy to do your mastering because he listen to music all day long and certainly specialized in one style, knowing how it a has to sound, what kind of loudness you need and so on. Artist just don't have the skill, the hardware, the monitoring or even the room to do mastering, but everyone can throw a limiter on a master, that's not mastering at all.
I've read in several places on not trying to compete on loudness because of how various streaming services normalize volume. Yet I've some tracks on Spotify and when I hear them as part of a mixed playlist they are way quieter than other songs in the same genre. Dramatically so. I've been listening through the Web player, if that makes a difference. My task now is to figure out ow to get them to loudness-match on Spotify while not crushing the dynamics. If my tracks are getting normalized by Spotify, any ideas why that results in them sounding quiet low-volume>
open.spotify.com/track/3enIRqiRXKgxGV1xFSmS4K More broadly, I'm curious if there are mixes that will always tend to sound quite, perhaps because of too much low-end energy, or an absence of certain frequencies. (And, if so, how to correct to this while still keeping the character of the music.)
i don't think anyone should care for loudness. when people listen to my album and it's not loud enough they should turn up the volume. i mean don't you know that feeling when you wanna listen to music by a friend who makes really loud music and the first thing you gotta do is turning down the volume? i don't think that feels good. i immediately feel like the music is not pleasant enough to stay loud when i have to do that. on the other hand there is music that can be very loud and pumpy and still sound good, and this music should not be forced to get quieter by some stupid ass listening programm
