SPOTTING THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CPTSD VS BORDERLINE PD (BPD PARENT VS CPTSD ADULT CHILD) 

My entire family is on this spectrum somewhere. Ppl who grew up in a stable loving home are soooooooo lucky, wow, I can't even imagine

I was misdiagnosed with BPD before I was finally diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder and CPTSD. I found this extremely helpful in identifying the differences, thank you

I feel like I have both. I fear relationships, feel inherently bad, but also have self-sabatoging behaviors and can lash out at others and then deeply regret it.

49. Male. College educated. Had a career for over 2 decades (that I despised from the start). BPD Mother who denies having any mental illness still at age 73 and still with both of her sons having become estranged from her. Passive father who died 20 years ago in his 50s. (I believe due to chronic stress. BPD mom was emotionally cruel to all of us.) Socially isolated in early childhood. Zero friendships or trusting relationships for the first over 30 years of my life. Currently married and with my husband for 16 years but he is the last person in my life. Family has either died or been estranged due to Mom's BPD. Developed a terrible habit of dating chat in the 1990s that never let up that I finally revealed to someone (my husband) this morning in a nighttime fit of shame on my part - so my marriage may be ending soon. No friends. I literally don't know what to do. I have lost everything because of the childhood trauma and, unfortunately, didn't work out all of this until these past few unemployed years. I feel like I am mostly c-PTSD but I also feel like I have some of the unique BPD traits as well - such as self-harming behaviors (like infidelity - like denying myself things - self-isolation as a form of self-punishment...). I appear normal to the casual observer but that goes away quickly since I never had an opportunity to develop social skills. Heck, it was only a few days ago that I learned that oversharing personal information is a bad social skill. To me it was always just being open about myself. Sadly, no one tells you when you mess up socially - they just avoid you because they assumed you learned social skills when everyone else did - as a kid. I never had a time of happiness. I hated myself before I could even talk and was PETRIFIED of strangers by the time I finally met another kid that wasn't a family member at 4 years old. I tried therapy/psychiatry and was met with accusations that I was lying about my condition. Dealt with doctors who don't believe me because I am too well spoken and educated. My world has been slowly decaying since birth - but the decay has accelerated lately and I fear soon becoming homeless since my mental health has made me too scared to work for fear of losing my temper at the first sign of maltreatment or abuse at work (which might be perceived and not even real). This video did a GREAT job clarifying these two conditions - BPD and c-PTSD. It bothers me that while I think I am more on the c-PTSD side of things, I also have many BPD-unique characteristics. HOW IN THE HECK AM I EVER GOING TO SURVIVE THIS WITHOUT MONEY OR SOCIAL SUPPORT? -- I both hate myself (c-PTSD) AND fear abandonment (BPD). I would not wish the hell of an entire life of this on anyone. If there really is a physical Hell, my life is WORSE - just a chronic, life-long, slow drip of one trauma-trigger after another, day after day, decade after decade....all due to to the ways in which my growing young brain misinterpreted my emotionally crazy mother. Unaware of the cause. Miserable. ALWAYS. I don't think I have gone more than 2 days EVER without severe depression and chronic anxiety. Forever I have felt like I am in a glass box with my VERY LOUD inner critic (who drowns out any actual real world sounds), while the world goes on just outside of my reach. I want to belong but never know how to make that happen. So I run...or freeze if I can't run.

Okay so I've watched a million videos about this, trying to differentiate between those two and you Dr. Kim has said some brilliant things I've never heard before. After seeing too many psychologists and psychiatrists on youtube, you are the one that really put all things in order. So thank you very much, this video was so so helpful!

At 64 i am so grateful that I have survived this long. I started seeking help by 15. I am so confused about the amount of diagnosis I have been given. Very little knowledge 50 years ago about Trauma. I have so much Therapy Trauma on top of having BPD AND CPTSD. Thank goodness that I have an ability to expand and somehow intuitively knew that I wasn’t what I was programmed to believe. In my early stages of understanding, I was very suicidal with addictions. In 23 years of alcohol recovery I have progressed significantly. I am now able to sit alone and stay present and not avoid my emotions and can be more of an Observer and can comfort my reactivity with tenderness for Self.

I hope in my lifetime the terrible stigma surrounding BPD is wiped out! CPTSD and BPD seem very similar. Every one deserves to heal with both diagnosis.

Just on the topic of knowing who you are with CPTSD vs borderline: in some cases the parents' splitting occurs with the same person. So while one moment you are bad and horrible and awful, the next (when you're somehow meeting their needs) you are angelic, perfect, the ideal child - but you know that love is conditional and won't last. This can definitely create uncertainty for the child around their sense of self, so while shame is the dominant factor, for children of borderlines CPTSD can certainly involve some identity disturbance too. Thanks for making these videos, they're really good any very informative.

I am a survivor of repetitive violent Traumas. Most of it came from a BPD Birth Mother. The time to heal is now. I will not let my CPTSD prevent me from having peace and tranquility in any department in my life today. Therapy is a good thing.

Thank you for posting . I had a therapist who identified me as CPTSD when I was worried I whats BPD like my mom. It was a huge step forward for me . It’s all about providing templates .

CPTSD is bad… i got screwed up pretty bad in the military for not turning a blind eye to heinous crimes… combat is easy… but having my life destroyed for doing the right thing… it’s been ten years and i’m still really messed up, and its really hard.

this is literally me and my mum, i have cptsd and havent made any new friends in a long damn time as this has come to light and have left all relationships I felt unsafe in, which has left me friendless, bc with two unstable parents and no safe adults anywhere had meant I only knew how to make relationships with toxic people, ughh i hope i can find it in myself to leave my comfort zone because i LOVE talking to people and being social. thank u sm!

I'm in the process of disentangling my identity from my BPD mother. The biggest difference I see between us is, the vindictive behavior and when I get triggered I apologize when I come back to myself. My mother says things like "I'm sorry you're angry".

Thank you for this, I recently lost my dad this year and it opened my eyes a lot to the unworkability that this disorder brings to the home…I cannot feel anything but compassion and sadness, for myself, and especially for family members who are in the fog of my mother…how I reject and abhor everything that could have happened to her to make her this way…I know she doesn’t ‘exist’ only a figment of my imagination, but she is my birth mom and it’s so hard to see her in a clinical way but it is the only way, at least at this time in my life; that I can detach myself from her…oh mom how o wish I was there to protect you….I’m sorry I could not fix you and ..I’m happier without you I’m so sorry mom…. :(

Thank you for these videos Dr. Sage. I love how you manage not to make BPD parents into evil perpetrators and how you give suffering CPTSD children the validation to move forward with self-healing activities despite the triggering of guilt. That was the biggest obstacle for me. I had to figure out how to not feel guilty about taking steps to improve my own mental health which of course included no longer allowing myself to be party to the crazy-making tendencies of my parents. But after I took the first step, it got easier.

Psychiatrist said BPD but I went to a psychologist at the same time and she said PTSD, 2 kinds of anxiety, severe depression and panic. He changed his diagnoses to hers. I recommend seeing both at the same time so you dont get the wrong diagnoses.

I have CPTSD and this has been one of the most helpful videos I’ve seen on the subject. Well done!

That was really brilliant and empathic. You made the differences of BPD and CPTSD, causes, symptoms and treatment very clear. I was wrongly diagnosed with BPD back in the early nineties, but it turns out I have CPTSD, have been diagnosed and am being treated for it (with EMDR which is incredibly effective). Your video has made it even clearer what I have been dealing with, and yes, it's never too late to start the healing journey (I am 61). One thing I would suggest is to slow down; it's quite deep and emotive stuff to take in, and I found my self having to stop and go back (mild dissociation perhaps??). 'Love', both for one's self and for others that have been in and shaped your life, is so much to do with understanding, exceptance and compassion.

Thank you for this comparison. I've been diagnosed with a few things for a long time, including CPTSD. But the last few years I've been working on understanding clinical narcissism and autism while not quite understanding what BPD is. You clarified essential points for me. I kinda wanted to give my mom a seemingly "lesser" degree of evil, but as far as I've ever been able to tell she doesn't worry about abandonment. She's just a vulnerable narcissist who was raised by a covert/self-righteous narcissist (who was also daily in my life), in a chain of various iterations through the maternal line. Not that it was the plan, but I was being trained to be a narcissist as well until in my tweens I developed friendships with healthy people who liked me and coached me when I needed to unlearn things. I'm grateful for the people who rescued me on time. I'm 54 and still discovering notions I harbor that come from that childhood environment.

I feel like part of the safety also comes from the absence of the parent. For example I had such an unstable and shaken foundation that I would avoid school and not go, and this snowballed to where I would have patterns of avoidance and deception at school. I would love test days not because I liked taking tests or did well, but because there were no threats from the teacher to ask me questions I didn't know the answer to (I didn't go to school or do my homework and when I was at school I wasn't ever paying attention, but doodling). I loved test days because it was quiet and I could just fill in the bubbles and make up the answers and hand in the test. It is amazing I actually even graduated high school because I didn't even understand basic concepts like studying or self discipline and basically winged everything. I thought I was stupid when in reality my life was literally chaos. That I got a bad grade didn't matter because there was no consequences at home. So a lot of the safety and scanning for threats was from the absence of my parents, where I would cope with situations I was thrown in but didn't have the tools to handle.

Thank you so much. My mom has BPD and I worry I do, but the CPTSD definitions fit me much more accurately. Going to try and find a therapist!

Thank you for this! Recently made myself get a new therapist and she's leaning towards me having tendencies of both BPD & CPTSD from childhood trauma and this... Really helped me understand why she's thinking along those lines. :) I truthfully didn't even know CPTSD existed so this is super helpful.

Thank you, Dr. Sage, for this video. I have been on a healing journey over two years after an event that triggered CPTSD. It was severe enough for me to do a deep dive into why my nervous system was so affected by what happened. I really appreciate your calm demeanor and explanation. Your video is more helpful that a year of talk therapy. Thank you.

I'm glad that I've lived long enough to find answers. They help. A lot.

Hi All! I know there is so much going on right now, so I debated posting, but decided to post this video and hope you will find it helpful. Please feel free to add anything or share:). And, please take very good care of yourselves❤️🙏🏻🙏🏻. I have part 5 (relational instability) of spotting BPD to post and then I am doing a series on: ❤️❤️❤️Relationships:❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Cheating and Affairs Attachment and Childhood Strategies Which Can Destroy Our Relationships What to Stop Doing In Your Relationships! xo thank you so much for watching and posting!💕💕💕💕🙏🏻🙏🏻

Thank you so much- please know you are helping me so much. I just watch these and sob- I can’t find any therapists in my area. You have helped so much.

I really believed for a long time that I had BPD. But I think it's CPTSD. My childhood was traumatic and my adult life is spent mostly distrusting others and keeping myself protected from others but feeling like I'm bad deep down inside.

Its pretty clearly different for me because I got CPTD from having a mom with BPD. I dont see myself as being like her at all in that way. Edit: she was one of the 10% that accidentally completed suicide. She involved me to stop her like always, but I was too late this time. I'm sharing this because it's really relevant to the dynamic described here.

This is so helpful. I have always felt that my issues were more rooted in trauma than my personality. More than one provider has assumed I have BPD because of my history of childhood trauma, and it always ends in treatment disaster after I just get worse and worse. I can sense their distain for me, which makes me feel unsafe, they set hard limits and ignore my worsening symptoms, and I drive myself nuts trying to figure out how to get heard while also hiding my worst symptoms in shame. If I eventually break and get angry, it reinforces their belief that I have BPD. And because I have so much shame, I drive myself crazy trying to figure out if I really do have BPD. The reality is that my childhood was horrific. No one was safe. My mom was the most volitile, but I was blamed if I spoke up about anything. And I went to an incredibly strict school with teachers who spent a lot of time yelling at me for not getting my work done. I still just want to disappear and hide in my safe place so much of the time. I was so lucky that I found an amazing therapist when I finally got help, and I know what good treatment feels like. I’ve learned to speak up for myself when treatment goes poorly, but I’m so unskilled at speaking up that I quickly get derailed. Then I either start balling, turn off my feelings, literally run away, or start screaming and loose all sense of myself. It’s so not fun. And no matter how I respond, a poor fit of a therapist makes bad assumptions and labels me borderline. I worked in mental health for years, and when I get pushed too hard, I act out in ways that I think appear borderline, and I feel so awful and ashamed. I have been trying to tell my current providers that treatment doesn’t feel safe. And that brings out the behaviours they think are borderline and leave me feeling awful-like in literal physical pain from the emotional extremes. I tried to explain that I need my trauma and depression attended to and the behaviours will stop. And I’m just getting referred to DBT. When I have researched DBT, it just feels wrong for me.

Thank you so much for clarifying. I have cptsd and I'm pretty sure my mom was bpd, but I'm not 100%. I was starting to wonder if I was bpd because of my fear of abandonment, but this clears it up. I never realized bpd had a genetic component.

The self actualizations I had while watching this video made me catch myself saying out loud, “OOOooh… wow… okay,” which I think implies a kind of unconscious yogic breath of release. And that’s the coolest reflection moment I’ve had in a while. Sláinte.

Wow. I was diagnosed with CPTSD and I didn't believe it. I've had extensive in patient testing and therapy volunteeraily. Diagnosis major depressive episode and panic disorder. This video is so helpful to me because both parents were NOT safe, and I do have fear of relationships in general.

My therapist and I have been discussing borderline patterns in my parent and it's been really challenging to process, but these videos have been helping a lot. Thank you.

Oof... Thank you... Good timing for me to see this right now. I'm the child now 39 and I am currently estranging my parents... even called mother by their full first name to get them to just leave me alone and stop needling. Glad it worked, I hope it channeled the voice of their mother...

Brilliant - this is the first resource I have found online that frames the distinction between cptsd and bpd in terms of a relationship between people who respectively manifest one and the other. In my case my mother's bpd was the world in which I developed cptsd. I went low-2-no contact with her a long time ago; I maintain that I finally escaped from her, she maintains I abandoned her. I have subsequently become estranged (my initiative) from siblings too (we were a single parent family). The family narrative continues to construct me as bad for having "left" - that I did so out of selfishness, hate, malice, and denial of who I really am (really very bad indeed). As alluded to in Dr. Sage's talk, one of the characteristics of bpd is externalisation of intense emotions in a way that powerfully resists self-awareness, and I think in the context of parent-child/bpd-cptsd relationships it is perhaps the scapegoated child who experiences this as a chronically repetitive pattern - endless futile attempts to share some kind of insight and understanding.

I'm a 34 yo man, two chaotic abusive parents. Both different abuse and independently of each other. For years with no escape. I internalised alot, especially with the npd parent. One npd for sure. Other who even knows. How you describe cptsd. I was saying yes on every point. The first video I have come across that really explains how I feel. The why's behind the feelings, not just the symptoms. I hope the diagnostic process I have scheduled will show this too. It's exhausting to not know and not being able to navigate out of this. Thank you for your work :)

This video is full of thought provoking insights! The presentation of characteristics as well as the root perspectives was very eye opening. One thing that stood out for me is the difference in the driving force ie; shame based vs fear based and their manifestions. Though subtle in nuance these distinctions make all the difference. I really appreciate what an excellent communicator you are. Thank you.

Thank You so much Dr. Kim! You are truly one of the Good People in this sad old world, keep up your excellent, important work. I am fifty-three and just getting to confronting all of this mental clutter in my own life. Thank you for the help!

This is the BEST informative video differentiating CPTSD and BPD! Thank you so much Dr. Sage for showcasing these differences!

I really appreciate your videos. I am a “New Subscriber”. Everything you say in this video & all the ones I have watched it as if you are speaking to me directly. I had a tough childhood. My parents divorced when I was 8 years old. ( I do not remember them together ). My Mother was cheating on my Father. I do remember that. After She divorced my Father She moved to a different state. I am the oldest & had two younger sisters. When my Mom left, She took my middle sister & left myself & my younger 2 year old sister on my Dad’s porch, with a box of clothes. Although this was very difficult, I wanted to live with my Dad & he raised us as a single father. I feel very greatful that he was there for us as best he knew how. I am as a adult, dealing with almost everything you have mentioned in your videos. I self isolate, I have diabetes, kidney disease, I have had extreme anxiety, depression, migraines, etc……. I am in a very unhealthy marriage! Have been married for over 25 years. He is Very Controlling & Extremely critical of me & everything I do, say, don’t say, it’s just bad!! I don’t feel like a confident woman anymore. He is always “correct & things always have to be his was”. Nothing I do is good enough! Even when I feel good about something I have done. This makes him very upset & he takes that success & happiness away from me. On March 31, 2022 my oldest daughter passed away. She was my oldest of 3 daughters. It has been so devastating to me & my life feels “out of control”. Do you have any suggestions or things that I can do to free myself from feeling like, I have failed my Daughter & myself?? Thank you so much for all your wonderful videos. 🙏 💔 😢 💫

I've been anxiously tiptoeing into BPD solo research ever since I took an attachment styles quiz and learned that I have disorganized/anxious avoidant attachment, which is common mostly in people with BPD. I've honestly been terrified of figuring out some day that I may have BPD, but whenever I look at descriptions of the symptoms/behaviors, they've been just off enough that it doesn't seem accurate for me...once I learned about CPTSD I felt more certain that was me, but this video really confirms it for me in my mind. I am CERTAIN at this point that my maternal grandmother has severe BPD which she passed on to my mom, who had a traumatic childhood and was emotionally abused by both parents, who then passed on some of these traits to me. I believe my mom most likely has a more moderate case of BPD and have always been deeply uncomfortable confronting her emotional abuse because overall she is such an amazing mom and we have an incredibly close relationship, but I feel like I've started to recognize some of her patterns (unable to be alone) in my little sister and now I wonder what's going on with her as she's dated many men who also seem like they may have BPD (they all were only ever diagnosed w/ severe depression tho). I thankfully had a really good childhood for the most part (except for the times my grandparents emotionally abused and neglected me while watching me after school, or when my mom had rage fits screaming and smashing things on occasion) up until I had some major, life-changing trauma affect me around age 11. Despite so much of my behavior being a desperate cry for help, I was very anti-therapy and would refuse help until I started seeking out therapy advice on my own online, finally getting therapy in college once I had the insurance to cover it. After all this time, I only have a depression and anxiety diagnosis, but I feel more certain every day that I'm narrowing in on my full diagnoses. I think I have CPTSD, ADHD, OCD, episodic depression (including PMDD), and severe anxiety. I think the OCD and CPTSD are what kept me afraid of therapy- I was terrified if I ever told anyone how disturbing my intrusive thoughts were that I would be locked in a mental hospital. But I've never genuinely wanted or tried to hurt myself, despite suicidal ideation and thoughts of self-harm coming and going depending on the severity of my depression. It's so frustrating how difficult it is to figure this all out, so I am eternally grateful to doctors like you who make this information digestible and accessible. Thank you!!!!!!

Wow, my life living between foster homes, (first one at four, l am emotionally frozen inside her black furry coat, we are standing outside her car, we never got back in her car, and we didn't go into the brick building), but we had to, because l never spent another night with her. I only spent twenty -four hours with her. She gave me something l never had, ( a hug with love and security) that hug saved my life and helped me survive my life living off and on with very broken parents. After reading these comments, my C-PTSD isn't so bad. I am 72 years old now and know Jesus as my Saviour and will someday be with He in heaven! Beyond Blessed!

EXTREMELY HELPFUL. KEEP POSTING!

Hey thank you! I thought I had BPD but it could just CPTSD

So helpful. i’ve had horrible therapist and psychiatrist and I was diagnosed with BPD after talking to a psychiatrist for 5 minutes and told to go on mood stabilizers. when I told her i didn’t believe this was case for me she dismissed me. I really think I am the CPTSD side here. I am so glad I found this. hopefully I know what to try to look for now treatment wise. It’s so sad that it’s so difficult to navigate the world of mental health and treatment. It can be so harmful for people who need help. thanks again

Thanks so much. You helped me understand a lot .. I was diagnosed with cpsd however was never really taught, or told the difference between certain things like you just did in this video. I have been in therapy for 16 years just watching some of your videos is helping me understand. Truly thank you from the bottom of my heart! Take care 🙏

Wow! This was hugely helpful. This is an incredible breakdown/comparison of the two. Thank you for making this!

I think defining a personality disorder as a whole will also help to tell these disorders apart. It's about the way you see the world, and yourself, and how you relate to it. Whereas in CPTSD you have PTSD over other people's behaviors and relationships in general. I think CPTSD can trigger a BPD. I know I struggled with both and a lot of the symptoms of the BPD became so much more manageable after I took care of the trauma. But I still get dysregulated, paranoid, self-loathing, splitting, self-destructive... When the BPD is triggered.

This is so helpful. I really needed to know this. Thank you. You spoke a bit fast in some places. I rewound to comprehend everything you said. Very very informative! Thank you so much.

Thank you! This differentiation was very helpful for me. I've recognized that my dad is a covert narcissist that tries very hard to be seen as a "nice" guy. Im not sure if my mom is a narcissist or has BPD. My dad created so much anxiety in her that she took out mostly on me in order to keep up appearances to everyone else. I think both of my parents fear being seen as bad, so much that they need to always be seen as the "good" ones. Any lack of appreciation from others is seen as an attack on them. I have a lot of the anxiety and some other characteristics that my mother has, so I have wondered if I may have BPD. Your differentiation between BPD and CPTSD help me to see that I suffer from the latter. Your descriptions of the fawn, freeze and collapse responses, in other videos, were also very helpful and very validating. Thanks again!

You explained this very difficult distinction between the two very well ! Thank you !!

Huge appreciation for this video.

Good explainations the difference, Seems more discussions have been around Narccisim, Most dont understand BPD and Cptsd or is talked about as well. Can a Narc also be a BPD? I never felt it was may fault in my situtation. Just unstability from parents, causing trusting issues

This has explained everything THANK YOU

I cannot believe I’ve found this site. Thank you so much for your invaluable information. ❤

Do you have a video on BPD and Co-morbid Bipolar? And how generational relationship genetics might flow from NPD (Generation 1: Grandparent) to BPD (Generation 2: Parent) to C-PTSD (Third Generation: Child/Grandchild)?

I wish my bpd mom would be open to understanding this. I can’t even approach mine about this, at this point. And I’m 50 y/o! I’m still that little girl inside. My poor mom. 💔This video is about us.

This makes so much sense

Thank you for this. CPTSD describes exactly how I feel, especially with the isolation.

I appreciate your words very much.

SUPER helpful, thank you!!

Wow. This was clear cut. Thank you so much!!

My mother was always raging at us. She would hit us with kitchen utensils and or smack us around.

U absolutely explain this better than anyone I've heard.

Thank you. This clarified a LOT for me, which is huge. Thank you.

I feel like I have both of these :/ I'm also stuck in a really longterm dissociation, chronic isolation, and I'm pretty sure I have AvPD too, heh.

I UNDERSTAND MY WOUNDS COMPLETELY...... I GET HELP, I GET PROFESSIONAL THERAPY, I HAVE & ALWAYS WILL GET THE BEST HELP AVAILABLE!!!! I AM VERY SELF - AWARE! THANK YOU FOR THE VIDEO ❤❤❤ IT WAS VERY GOOD 🙏💯🤔🤔👍👍👍👍👍👍

Thank you for this. I've always thought I had PTSD but my ACE score is super high so I always wondered if there was a PTSD for multiple traumas and ones that lasted months or years vs one time events; and if that differed from personality disorders or mental illness that can also be associated with trauma.

Cpstd so that's what it is..I've watched so many videos over the past 6mo yours are definitely the best I've found and the way you explain makes so much sense..thank you

CPTSD. Thank you for this video. Have been mulling this over a lot, as I was raised by a BDP parent

This distinction really does matter and this video is very helpful! I feel confident I suffer from CPTSD, not BPD at all. I have a new therapist and I feel like she misunderstands me.. she seems to think I have a fear of abandonment, but when I pull away in my relationships its because of a fear of rejection/unworthiness. I struggle to feel a sense of self worth or that anyone could possibly love me. I don't ever worry about someone leaving me; I worry they are going to change into a cruel person at the drop of a hat without any warning. I end up being the one who switches unpredictably as a way to protect myself. I haven't experienced traumatic abandonment in my life; only experiences that lead me to believe people are generally unreliable and untrustworthy. I avoid relationships generally, but still long for intimacy. I seek connection with others, but I fear being vulnerable by expressing emotions, asking for my needs to be met, and feeling dependent on others.

Thank u for making so much sense of this!

Very perceptive and clear, thank you.

I have cptsd and this resonates with me. I don't have a partner because I find dating and relationships very triggering. I often can't function properly if I'm dating. I've always envied people in normal stable loving relationships. One of my dreams is to find a loving partner I feel happy and at peace with.

I appreciate this video so much.

Yes, like the last person to comment b4 I'm writing this, I've watched a million vids too on C-PTSD, anxious/avoidant attachment, narcissism... et al. And now as I embark on listening to this vid and hear all the overlap btwn BPD & C-PTSD, two things finally strike me. One is that we are complex creatures, we humans and we don't divide up into precise little cubicles of symptoms - oh, I'm BPD bcuz I have 10 symptoms/indications from that checklist but only 8 from the C-PTSD checklist. It's finally crossed my mind after 71 yrs of living with this, these "disorders" just can't be that precisely delineated. And secondly as someone who is seeking amelioration or healing of this weight now over the 7 or 8 yrs of knowingly pursuing this general area of the mental wellness arena...does it make any difference for purposes of healing modalities whether one is BPD or C-PTSD? Think ur videos are AWESOME but to the person trying to heal many patterns of dysfunctional behavior, does it make a difference?

The more you describe the differences between BPD and C-PTSD, the more I am convinced they are the same thing. With BPD it does not need to be caused by trauma, but it often times is. And when it is, it looks like an almost perfect mixture between cptsd and bpd. BUT OF COURSE- bpd is much more stigmatized than CPTSD because in the world of mental health, we LOVE to think black and white. We love to idealize the victims of abuse, and demonize the abusers. When anger and hostility is turned inward on oneself rather than others, it's seen as altruistic, but they are two manifestations of the same thing. My mother and father were both Borderline, and both were alcoholics. My dad almost beat my mom to death a few times, and my mom almost killed herself multiple times in front of her children. Being in the midst of constant chaos, never having my needs met as a child with ADHD has made me a terrible person. I have the emotional intelligence of a child, I hate people and want to be alone forever, but I also need love and want to share myself with people who understand me and care enough to make an effort. I have been emotionally and physically abusive to partners. I have been severely BPD, but it was all caused by trauma and the normalization of many different forms of abuse throughout all of my formative years. I am so tired of people acting like being traumatized makes you this battered, scared person who can do no wrong and couldn't hurt a fly. Many who have BPD have terribly complex traumatic pasts and their disorder makes sense in that context. If all you know is abuse and instability, you're much more prone to recreating that all throughout your life. It's a hellish cycle. The differences between CPTSD and BPD are so minute they are obviously made up by someone who wished to separate themselves from a terribly stigmatized and painful disorder. Trauma healing is beneficial for anyone with BPD, so much of dialectical behavior therapy is congruent with Bessel Van Der Kolk's approach on healing trauma in the body. Mindfulness and reframing are helpful for almost all mental health disorders.

I Have been incorrectly diagnosed with BPD than. I have CPTSD.

I feel like shit, my psychiatrist diagnosed me with quiet BPD but I don't know if I have it I don't wanna accept it, etc etc feel like I also have or I'm more likely to have CPTSD, etc I don't know my life is falling apart 😿

I keep getting diagnosed with cptsd but after watching this video I really think it’s bpd… my symptoms are more suicidal and fear of abandonment, external validation…

A professor of mine suggested that PTSD from childhood traumas may always be titled as Borderline Personality Disorder while multiple traumas in adult life should be named CPTSD. Because at the core of BPD there is a bonding trauma, leading to insecure and disorganized attachment styles. There are 30% of people affected by BPD who haven't endured any kind of trauma. At least that is what statistics say but maybe those 30% just can't remember their trauma or wouldn't consider the environment in which they were raised as traumatic although it was. CPTSD on the other hand can always occur in every age and can lead to changes in personality and world view. It was at least a suggestion by him. What do you think about it? I personally think that CPTSD is at the core of many, many disorders. Primarily Personality Disorders. I think pretty much every personality disorder stems from a complex childhood trauma in one way or another. And Borderline, Narcissism, Dependent, Obsessive Compulsive, Avoidant Personality Disorder whatever are just different ways of coping with this root trauma. Like a defence mechanism for the traumatic events. Some people react with a bloated ego, others with (self-)destructive rage, some with avoiding everything and others with being overly obsessive compulsive, neat and tidy. But they are all traumatized at the core. I'd also think that it depends on the kind of trauma. I think being shamed and ridiculed often leads to avoidance while having a feeling of losing control mostly leads to obsessive-compulsive traits. But I suppose it is also linked to your temperament how you cope with these things. After all it is just a theory.

I've recently been diagnosed with C-PTSD but I don't think it's entirely the right diagnosis. Although I have been through a lot of trauma, I often have moments especially after highly stressful situations, I feel like I am a totally different person. I have trouble sticking to a singular identity. I have a short attention span with hobbies. I will say I'm committed but that commitment will only last a couple of weeks then I completely lose interest. I also get obsessive very quickly and tiny things can really upset me. An example of this is I have a particular way of organising my drinking glasses cupboard and get very upset if they're not in the right order. Meanwhile everything else is just a mess. I don't know of some of the things I've said are just me as a person or if they are part of a different disorder. Thank you for your video it was very helpful :)

I know I’m not borderline, my mother loved, missed my younger, dead sister. I don’t feel I had a childhood. My mother would go,”talk about me” to any one she knew would support her. Ca

Excellent! Thank you.

Thank you for the insightful video. I have quiet BPD (although it wasn't always a quiet presentation - that's something that's come with insight and gradually learning to control behavioural impulses) but because I experience very intense issues around shame and I don't self-harm, in some ways it looks a little bit like CPTSD - which would be particularly odd as I don't have any 'active' capital T traumata. What really clarifies for me that BPD is indeed the correct diagnosis is that although I find relationships unsafe, that is because I experience abandonment as persecutory - so really it is not the relationship I find unsafe, rather that my fear of experiencing that persecutory abandonment yet again is so intense that it actually prevents me from even entering into relationships to begin with. Apart from that possibility, I essentially can trust others not to mistreat me - at times more easily than I should - even if I do experience abandonment as a betrayal. So while someone with CPTSD may expect to be mistreated in a relationship (while obviously desiring to be treated well), in my case (and probably those of others with BPD) I expect that I will be treated well, but also that I will be cease to be "treated" at all and that when that inevitably occurs, it will be excruciatingly painful.

Thank you so much, It really means a lot to me that you took the time to make this video.

There was a lot of information given very quickly. I'll have to listen to this a few times at a reduced speed.

I watched your CPTSD video made before this one and I literally check off every single thing you talked about in that video. However, watching this one talking about CPTSD can look more like “I’m bad I’m not worthy etc…” as now as an adult who has had children of my own I don’t see myself in that way as I may have when I was younger. I now basically just know that I can’t count on anyone but myself. I want to be left alone by everyone and I’m super okay with out any kind of meaningful interaction with people because any “meaningful interaction” is all for show anyway. No one really means it. They all end up hurting and/or letting me down at some point anyway so I just don’t let people get close so I don’t have to deal with the deep emotions once they inevitably hurt me. I feel quite deeply but I find I have learned to just numb out emotions in the intense moments. When something crazy is going on I just blank out and I’m almost appalled by others crazy outbursts and just find myself waiting for it to be over. I’m typically pretty logical and able to make sound decisions when I should be experiencing intense emotions. Then later weather it’s days or weeks or months I will break down when I’m alone and there’s no chance of being interrupted. I hate crying in front of others, yet I get urges to cry with every emotion - except sadness. I cry when I’m angry, when I’m happy, when I’m stressed… but never really just for sadness in and of itself. I’m very empathetic to others and all my friends I’ve ever had always referred to me as their armchair therapist bc I listen and can often see where they’re coming from but can also offer an opposing viewpoint in a loving way. I just don’t know how I can be so empathetic to others yet I check out on my own emotions and become numb the moment something should effect me. Sorry if this was long 😣

That was so informative. I feel like I finally understand. I have no desire for revenge etc for being decimated by both parents. My mother, father, and sister however love revenge. They are frightening. I have been celibate for 10 years now - my choice. I don't want someone to come in and mess up my life again. My dad and sister have outrageous bursts of rage - walking on eggshells for me. I had to cut my sister off completely. My dad - Jekyll and Hyde - I am still recovering from spending an afternoon with 4 weeks ago. I've had nightmares and sleep problems ever since. My mother passed away 2006. I always thought she hated me. I don't think about her much at all. I just wanted to escape. to get as far away as possible so I think I'm of the CPTSD variety. I can feel like I'm a bad person all day long especially after seeing or hearing one of these or hearing about them. My sister and dad have had a horrific smear campaign going around the family about me, but I don't want to harm anybody, so they don't hear any bad stuff from me about them. I find them exhausting. I just want to be left alone - by them, but I still want my dad's love - it's so confusing. My dad can be very cruel. My sister "hates everyone." It's endless and I want to be free. I've done a ton of work on myself and they have done none - as all their problems are because of someone else... And now I'm going t walk my loving dog - thank you for the video and your clarity! :)

This was super helpful. You just described the difference between me & my husband. I thought I had BPD. I have CPTSD . My husband struggles with a lot of BPD symptoms. I also think my parents suffered from BPD & couple siblings too 😢

I just love your research Dr Kim. 😍

Thank you for this video you explained exactly what it is that i feel or what drives my mood changes i would rather not feel or be a problem for anyone i wish i lived on an island with just my dog and not having to engage or feel for anyone anymore

Thank you so much for this very helpful video. This was packed with so much information and it is so generous of you to put this out here. I'm going to watch it again and again because sometimes my mind wants to wonder and I have to pull it back and focus on the task. This video is beautiful! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you so much for sharing what you have learned. I found it helpful. I would have loved to hear more about the difference between a complex as is the case with CPTSD and a personality disorder. In any event though, thank you!

I can get high highs and low lows, but as soon as I feel happy I automatically feel like people prefer me sad. Like they don’t like my sense of humour, or they see that I’m happy so it’s easier to be cold to me. I don’t know I love people, I feel most happy when I’m helping someone (I work as a caregiver). But even with my residents if I feel like they like me too much I pull away and will get other staff to do their cares. I don’t like to be too vulnerable but I am fairly open. My parents were both very abusive, physically, verbally and emotionally to my sisters and I. I thought I broke the curse, but I find that I can be quite explosive at times myself.

So incredibly helpful ❤

CPTSD can also have suffer huge ababdonment wounds. I did, because my parents divorced and I was left with my NPD mum. Caretaker divorce, death, or other separation can cause a massive ababdonment wound too. But, you're right about how a bpd or cpstd handles that is different. I think there is much more severe dissociation in BPD, so much so that you could call it a case of multiple personality like NPD, where there is a "mask" state and another state (often raging and punitive to self or other). CPSTD doesn't have this much dissociation. We know who we essentially are and when we've done something wrong.

Thank you. This helps a lot.

2d comment...I still don't "get it". I completely identify with both...deep sense of "I'm core-bad" and shame which I've hidden from others by being perfectionist, over achiever, etc. Just as much identification with BPD, tho, too. And same with what u say are entirely different treatment approaches. Bcuz I think I'm core bad, I need outside validation of my worth and so am very dependent in that sense. As long as I can't internalize a sense of self-worth that's stronger than my sense of shame and "I'm bad" then I'm going to be dependent on others' opinions, support...but decreasing dependency is first thing listed for BPD, not C-PTSD. Maybe I have both and would think that these treatment protocols could be easy harmonized or reconciled. And, again, in the end if what I need is to come out of or not experience a dysregulated state or hyper-vigilant F/F/F/F state...what difference does it make if one is BPD or C-PTSD? On the one hand u say one can be both but then u say the treatment approach is very different -- then aren't you in effect saying if one has both, s/he is outta luck vis a vis treatment? Very discouraging and murky outlook from the perspective of dual diagnosis people.

I have both of these! I have been around all the sickest people all my life!