@Disobedient One it has a great feel to it! Your hands fall right where they should. Though i would imagine someone with really big hands would run into issues.
@@mfree80286 Guess someone thought: why finish it nicely only to put on checkering to get a good trip, when you can leave it rough and grippy to begin with...
Hey Ian, i a few background informations: My uncle was a GDR citizen (he lived in Cottbus) and was a police man, the normal police for traffic and theft and stuff. In the GDR some special cases like treason, but also murder and kidnapping, where handled by the Stasi, the state security, and not by the police and from time to time the worked with the Stasi agents. Those rifles where spread over Germany to local Stasi offices and had no personal owner. When ever the dedicated "SWAT" guys needed equipment they got them handed out by the local office. So it could happen that a Stasi agent from Berlin would end up using a rifle in Leibzig an a given day. I think this explains the "dont change the zero". Also the most common use for those rifles was security during state visits - like the Secret Service does in the USA. Snipers on the roof.
I think the same goes for most military/police/MfS weapons across the DDR. Generally kept locked in the armoury until required. Soldiers in the NVA had personal kit but not personal weapons.
One should note that the MfS was in no way what we would consider a regular police force, but a secret police as was typical for communist/socialist states.
@@MH-hr6tu that's quite right. In terms of organisation though they had military style ranks and armouries of weapons very much as per the army. But you are spot on anyway!
Back in 1988 I had to take some classes in "Waffenkunde" (weapons knowledge) in what was then East Germany. The trainer showed us more or less all small arms used in Eastern Germany including this model. He explained us the reason for the raw stock. The idea behind it is simple. The weapon came unfinished from the manufacturer and had to be adapted to the needs of the assigned shooter. Their idea was to give every shooter his personalized weapon. After milling down the wood to the right size it should be finished with the included wood oil or wax. This was supposed to be done by the local Stasi armory guys. Why it didn't happen is another question and the answer is very East German: One cannot just change something sent by the authorities even if it is supposed to. Besides in an economy lacking a lot of resurces it felt wrong to adapt an expensive rifle to one shooter. What if he falls out of favour or been send somewhere else? Then you end up with a rifle others will have problems to use. So in reality the shooter had to adapt to the rifle and not vice versa.
Okay, now i understand why is the stock unfinished. But i don't understand one thing: Why is not on the rifle a strap or an attachpoint for it? It supose to been the gunsmith's job to make the attachpoints? Or did the factory send the parts, but they can't apply it becouse what you said earlier? Or did they simply use some kind of weapon bag? Cause snipers often has to get to a vanagepoint, and use their hands but that's pretty dificult whyle there is a 3.7kg weight at one of it.
That's rather stupid, actually spending the resourches on the weapons of marksmen and making them personalized would make the snipers more effective. However it's a police sniper, so it doesn't make sense for that purpose, but for military snipers it could have been effective!
Overall shape is reminiscent of Suhl airguns. As for unfinished stock, it was actually not uncommon in USSR to sell new sporting pistols/rifles with basically a chunk of wood for grip/stock. Shooters were supposed to file and sand it to their hands dimensions and finish to their liking.
Sporting as in sports, not hunting. Ergonomic stocks and handgrips are supposed to be sold unfinished and with a large block of extra material, for a custom shop to mold them to the shooter's hand. Soviet sporting guns (for hunting) were sold with normal stocks - lacquered and checkered.
You know what I love the most about your channel? I NEVER *EVER* have to change my volume setting for a replay. Always consistent and just sounds professionally. Thought I might mention it :)
Really liked the video sir. My Dad and I watched Forgotten Weapons all the time. He passed away this past Monday. I really needed this right now. Thanks Ian.
Hi Ian, the ZF4 JENA scopes were the same scope sold with the BRNO ZKK series (600, 601, 602) of rifles. On the ZKK the windage was adjusted by screws in the mount, the elevation was adjusted by the cap with the slotted screw in it. first you back off the screw then you can turn the turret. no click adjustments like a modern scope, they are an absolute PIA to adjust. I sold the ones i had very quickly and installed modern optics. from memory the other turret was focus. i had 4x and 6x. love your videos!!!
@@HauptgefreiterB not gonna lie, i had to giggle. But it's true, my working colleagues wife worked in such a factory. If they produced too much TNT they had to change the production line because they were just allowed to produce a fixed amount of products. And People not working is Bad too, so the gdr factorys often produced something Different besides the main production. That's also the reason why the gdr had so extremely many Cola, lemonade and beer "factories" in fact, it was just the Second product of most regular factorys and damn, these Drinks were great. Still Love every Vita-Cola brand like 9springe or Schwarzbacher Schloß Cola.
Shot one of these two years back, they arent that rare in germany. Has as much recoil as a pellet rifle. Oh, and about Zeiss Jena - its "yena" like in hyena, not "Dshenna". Greetings from Jena.
@@janwacawik7432 Absolutely! Come around anytime, theres a ton of great history in the area. Suhl (where the STG was designed and Walther was building guns for the Wehrmacht and where my gunsmithing school is) is just around the corner. There is a cave where the luftwaffe was building planes, KZ Buchenwald is here, Erfurt (gun factory ERMA) is really close. Tons of middle age castles. east-Central germany is underrated.
that is not even an ironic statement. in eest germany everybody knew the deal. hell chances are you didn't even have to tell the cab driver where you lived.
I have a friend who bought one of these when they came into our country. With their sniper ammo it was good for about 1.5 MOA. About twice that with ball ammo that was available at the time.
One Doomed Spacemarine the East German sniper ammo that was available when these rifles hit the market was packed in a steel case. It featured a 52 or 53 grain bullet that was a fmjbt with an empty hollow cavity in the nose under the jacket. It would break apart and tumble when it hit soft tissue. It performed well on prairie dogs when we tried it on them.
And finally I`ve discovered, that this rifle was based on Haenel Suhl Model 150 sporting rifle, that is why it has common parts with other rifles of this factory
I might just be crazy, but this actually looks like it'd be incredibly comfortable to shoot. It has my favourite type of sight, a nice heavy barrel, and the body doesn't seem to feel as flimsy as many modern rifles tend to do.
I own a Suhl 150 .22 lr target rifle, very similar . Wish I had bought one of these when they first came in. I believe these triggers are the same ones that are on the Suhl .22 target rifles if so they are among the best ever and can be adjusted to single or two stage in the ounces if desired.
@@noremorsewoodworking2258 The DDR was fucking horrible. One of my Dads buddies used to live there, he told me that as a joke he and some friends once went out in July dressed up as Santa Claus shouting ho ho ho around the streets. They promptly got arrested by the STASI, got put into solitary confinement, got beat and were fiercly interrogated as to what the purpose of their little stunt was. At the end of all that they got exiled from Jena for life. And all that just for a stupid prank.
A year or two after the wall fell (Berlin, not Hadrian's), there was a lot of East German Beech on the timber market in the UK and I think that is what the stock is made of. I think they were more interested in grip than polish. I think I've seen airguns stocked in a similar way, but maybe that's my memory fading into the far distance.
I've been in love with that style of scope detachment ever since I saw the same kind that Herbert Werle put on one of his modded M1s in one of his videos.
I had one in the 500 serial number range. The front scope knob is focus. The rear is vertical adjustment, you loosen the screw, rotate to zero. Windage is controlled by two opposing screws on the rear scope mount. It shot as good as the ammo. I could never find any of the RWS “match” ammo. Mine also had a blonde finish with clear coat and a barrel exterior like a Steyr rifle(visible hammer forge flats).
Yeah, I thought the same, although when looking closer the finish on Tkiv-85 is much much better. But can't help thinking that maybe the designers of Tkiv-85 had seen SSG-82 and been at least partially influenced by it because there certainly is some resemblance there.
It looks just like a sports rifle for competition shooting. Look up any target pistols or old biathlon rifles (before polymers). They all sold with a huge block of unfinished wood for a stock, so that a gun shop then would mold and cut it to the shooter's measures (or the shooter themselves would file it down over weeks).
I notice that the bolt handle also seems to serve as at least a safety lug and there appears to be what might be an additional lug opposed to the bolt handle. Barrel looks free floated in the forearm that is good design. It would make a nice hunting rifle for coyotes and small deer. Not sure what the wood is used.
I regret not getting one of these when they were available. If I had gotten my first 5.45 gun I would have certainly jumped on this. As I remember they were pretty reasonably priced.
In the Fajas factory absolutely high quality hunting rifles (often for export), sporting weapons and AK models were manufactured. The wood is untreated so that it can be customized by the user. My grandfather was involved in the SSG82.
According to more knowledgeable commenters that was common and you where meant to sand down the handle and stock for your exact preferences and dimensions
Very interesting. The stock is a copy of the Anshutz 54 Prone Rifle in .22LR. My 54 was made in 1974 and I still use it at National Level Competitions. I wish I could post a picture of mine.
Hi, Ian. Cool! Everything I don't like in a rifle, all in one package! So, some date in the future, if the future ever comes back, I will check this caricature and make note of what not to buy. You did a very charitable job with this rifle. I hope you didn't get any slivers in the making of this movie. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
I have a friend who built a bench rest rifle in .22 PPC, which is just 5.6x39 necked up to 5.7. It's a crazy accurate rifle (Single shot on a Remington 600 action with a Jewel trigger) so I have no doubts the standard 220 Russian is a pretty inherently accurate cartridge. That said, he spent weeks at the range varying charges and bullet weights and different powders to work up the best load. Now at 100 meters off the bench it's capable of shooting five shots in a single hole you could cover with the butt of a cigarette. I've seen him do it. I was spotting him.
I have one interesting rifle mine unfortunately is not a perfect match however the scope is the correct serial number range and is the right one. The barrels were made by differing manufacturers and the concept was based off an east german target rifle. You can adjust point of impact although it very awkward. The other dial on top is to adjust focus
Every time I see a rifle made before 1990 I think "picatinny rails and the STANAG standardization thereof is among the best ideas anyone ever had with modern weapons". Ever.
The lack of finish might be intentional. For example, we don’t finish the back the of guitar necks because it prevents the hand from easily sliding and causes sticking. The “finish” ends up being the oils from your hands impregnating the wood. It’s possible for a police sniper rifle where accuracy is of upmost importance due to civilians and the fact that a police rifle wouldn’t be slogged through the mud, that they intentionally left it unfinished so it feels better in the riflemans hands.... purely speculation though
The one I have is also seemingly nicer than this one. But not knocking it. The video won't show how beautiful the barrel and action are. I'm curious where the price point has moved to since the massive inflation of everything.
The stock reminds me of the Haenel airgun rifle line which was also sold in East Germany and also used as training rifles for the GST Gesellschaft für Sport und Technik (Society for Sports and Technology).
Love how the scope is mounted in the front. That pillar that it swivels on would probably give it no small amount of stability. Kind of a shame we don't have something like that on modern scope mounts designed for quick release. Also like the fixed power of the scope for its job. Four power is probably good for the ranges a police sniper would need. And assuming they work in pairs the spotter should have a high power 50x spotting scope for observation. I'd probably want something a little higher power than 4x, like 8x or so, but the fixed power in a Zeiss lens lets in a lot of light and provides a damn good view.
Will Forgotten Weapons ever do a Hi Point video? Very interested to see Ian's opinion of them. Then again, not quite a "forgotten" weapon, I suppose. Still would love to see a video of one at some point.
The city of Suhl and surrounding towns are well known for their gun smiths, especially hunting rifles on a masterclass level. It's not very surprising that the wieger90 was developed and produced in the region. I'm sure it has been produced in a VEB (peoples owned facilities) in that area. Greatings from Eisenhüttenstadt 😉
The butt plates are stacked with spacers and can be removed one at a time (or however many you need) to reduce the length of pull since it is at maximum now. The roughness is stippling for a secure grip and there is no finish/lacquer as it is slippery and reflective.
That unpolished, unfinished wood looks like it's nice to the hand. High friction, good grip, sucks up your sweat. Looks rough but probably feels and works just fine!
J.P.Sauer & Sohn GmbH est. 1751 in Suhl, Carl Walther GmbH est. 1886 in Zella-Mehlis (5 km away from Suhl), J.G. Anschütz GmbH & Co. KG est. 1856 also in Zella-Mehlis just to name a few. Actually, a lot of West-German companies were founded in East-Germany.
Just watched Ian's video on the East German SKS--apparently a much more transparent weapon, considering the mountain of information available on it (and all the markings on it).
I thought you'd be interested to know that the colour and texture of the stock looks identical to my East German bayonet training rifle and the lower handguard on my MPiKM. The East German counterterror unit was called Dienstheit IX, and was able to use all sorts of fun imported kit like PSG-1s and MP5s and such like.
I find myself using this rifle in VIGOR when I need a sniper rifle but don't want to risk the good ones. Using a small caliber rifle like this was not unheard of the SAS used 22-250s for the same application
Hey Ian. Moronically stupid question, but would it be theoretically possible to use a mag like that in an ak, assuming that you just force it up into the action using your hand?
Ian the reason why this gun is so rare and undescribed and little known is... The Stasi, also had "Mauerschützen".. That is why it has an intermediate round, you don't need a full power cartridge for one border area. Also thr Stasi were more of a political executive squad like thr SS , so we in east germany had a saying.. "Only SED or Stasi members have telephone"
