Fosse doing Fosse, it doesn't get better than this. He was such a unique and influential choreographer that people tend to forget he was also one hell of a fine dancer.
I had to come back and watch this again. Fosse was absolutely BRILLIANT. This is amazing. And yes Michael studied the greats like any smart entertainer before or after him would. Fosse is using flamingo, jazz, ballet...all kinds of moves here. Lovers of the arts..true lovers of anything really.. are sponges and will soak up everything.
@@lauravazquezgonzalez8207 But in the song he refers to himself as "The Lord's" "fallen old chum" and later the pilot says that he's hated humanity from the beginning
There’s something so cool yet almost disturbing about seeing such recognisably MJ moves being by someone else, and before MJ even used them. Fosse delivering as always.
Gargan Mosil I challenge you to become greater than this, then. BTW, how is this shit bad if Michael Jackson himself heavily studied Bob Fossie's dancing? He did add his own flavor and make it his own, but that doesn't negate where his moves originated from. GTFOH.
Fosse was a superb dancer and an even better choreographer. If I had to pick one performance as the "definitive" Bob Fosse, it would be this one. All the elements of his genius are displayed here.
Yes. Michael Jackson LOVED Bob Fosse. Bob Fosse was immensely successful and did a life time of movies and performing. Michael Jackson likely saw him for the first time in, "The Little Prince," since it was released when Jackson was a child. Most great things are built on other great things in life.
Michael had the same access to Bob Fosse's 1950's work as I did in afternoon and late night TV rerun. I couldn't get enough of Fosse even when I didn't know his name and Gwen Verdon too.
He appropriated them, not stole. I mean, if you want to get technical, nobody can copyright a dance move or trademark a body silhouette. To be slightly less clinical, MJ's genius was to steal from his myriad disparate influences, mix them all up, apply them with deft precision and knowledge of his craft, and come out in the end as something uniquely singular. He was like his hero Walt Disney in this regard, or Andy Warhol or George Lucas or any number of history's truest, most innovative artists/entertainers. There is something to be said for homage. All the greats "steal," I mean, nobody is creating in a totally fresh artistic vacuum. We take what came before and we add ourselves to it. "Nothing is new under the sun." That's the BIBLE, son!
He filmed this just after finishing Pippin, Cabaret, and Liza with a Z. He would soon win the Tony, Oscar, and Emmy all within a few months. Fosse was brimming with talent in 1971-72.
Michael Jackson was very open about the fact that he studied and learned from the masters including Fosse. He never hid it nor denied it per his famous note "Get all Bob Fosse movie dances and study inside and out." Everyone who knew him described Michael as a sponge - always curious, always learning, always perfecting. He did the same with Astaire, Kelly, Brown, Wilson, the Nicholas brothers, etc. He watched and then he created his own style. That's how an artist develops his craft. The negativity from some here is rubbish.
+Diane Anderson Thank you. The comments here are absolutely ridiculous. Everybody knows how much Michael loved Fosse. And these poses Fosse is doing here are similar to the choreography he did for Ben Vereen, Sammy Davis, Jr. and Liza Minnelli. All also influences and friends of Michael. The beginning of Billie Jean is very much like a Fosse pose.
+Diane Anderson If Michael Jackson was so open about it....why had I never heard about it before now? I just randomly found this video. I'm sure he admitted it because he had to....but it's been pretty much been kept secret. I bet less than 1% of the population knows that this white man did all of Jackson's moves first.
EasyThere Pilgrim I don't know why you didn't hear about it. I've been hearing Michael talk about Astaire, Kelly, Fosse and lots of others since the 70's. Liza Minnelli was Fosse's protege and she and Michael shared dance moves together. The pose at the beginning of "Billie Jean" is classic Fosse created for Ben Vereen in Pippin. Beyonce's "Single Ladies" is Fosse choreography that he created for his wife, Gwen Verdon.
barbee0715 I think that by mentioning James Brown, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, and a dozen other guys....Jackson was obscuring the fact that his moves and style were really of Fosse.
Saw this as a child when it came out, visiting today because of a video with Margaret Qualley dancing where she said she was inspired by this. Terrible movie with a couple of truly magical numbers!
Me too! (To the Margaret Qualley part) I've never seen this but, wow... and isn't it incredible the almost (if not total) universal reaction of everyone seeing MJ here. I'm watching, thinking it, then come down to the comments, and sure enough! It's wild. How did you like that Bleachers video? Pretty amazing, too, huh? I didn't know much of anything about MQ, but it's been interesting catching up.
Michael's note to himself read "study the greats and become greater" which is exactly what he did. Every great artist stands on the shoulders of those who came before...don't you know....
I love your comment! All credit to Fosse for his brilliant choreography. If we didn't have great dancers like Fosse, James Brown, Jean Kelly how would MJ have perfectef his dancing skills!
Seth Corbin Yes Michael is an amazing dancer and artist but he did study dance and Fosse. Before Fosse, the dances were also great but he made a change with different and unique moves no one has seen before, Michael does have his differences in dance but was influenced by Fosse. People may not dance like this anymore or as much but this made a change. Your opinion is your own and mine is my own. Sorry if this comment seemed as a attack or hate towards you in anyway didnt mean for it to 😊. I respect your opinion because it's yours. (I found out about Fosse in my drama class and personally Im glad I did)
Seth Corbin Alright I see Michaels dance moves from billie jeans, smooth criminal and so on are different and arent exactly the same but you can kind of see the influence of dance and color because of the outfit with black and white to create contrast. So Im not arguing with you and sorry if this was rude in anyway to you. Just wasn't sure if you knew about the influenced thing, sorry.
Why are so many people talking about whether Michael Jackson stole anything from Bob Fosse or got inspiration from it? Artists imitate and pay homage to each other all the time, can't we just appreciate that they were both incredible dancers and giants in their own fields of entertainment who both deserve to be remembered, recognisd and honoured?
Fantastic WTF through MJ we will never forget Bob MJ kept Bob moves alive to show the next generation the brilliant moves modified by MJ many artists moving like MJ so they both will never be forgotten.
Fosse has his own legacy without MJ. He directed/choreographed some of the most popular Broadway shows (THE PAJAMA GAME, DAMN YANKEES, SWEET CHARITY, CHICAGO) and won an Oscar for directing the film version of CABARET. He's a titan in the Broadway and dance communities. Anyone who's presently a dancer has heard of him and has taken inspiration from him. Not just in the US, but the world over.
@8mycrab I'm glad you mentioned this quote, because I was very concerned. I looked all over the internet for information about Michael and Bob and never found anything that linked them directly. I know Michael always spoke of Fred Astaire and James Brown. I'm glad to know that he did acknowledge Fosse too.
I checked the choreographer of Little Prince. And I got what I expected: Ronn Forella and Bob Fosse. I can bet that Mr. Forella made the choreography for the whole film, and Mr. Fosse made that for his own dance. This dance was so him! And I could not imagine he would have been willing to let anybody else chip on his work!
so great.. This is basic a talk about suicide... the snake is like the voice of depression ofering a quick and tempting solution to sorrow, and it is the friendly and sweet voice of a con artist.... this is so sad in so many levels...
If you did a little research you'd know that Jackson was open about his love for Fosse. He even asked Fosse to direct Smooth Criminal and Thriller. Any dancers back me up on this. Dance is about fusion. Any dancer starts off as a kid watching moves and copying them. Then you put your influences together. You put your spin on the moves and something new comes along. Nobody, dancer, singer, whatever, comes up with shit completely on their own. They all have influences. Choreography was put under copyright laws in 1978. It's all public domain before that. That Little Prince routine was hard tango.
Fosse was a brilliant talent no doubt about it but a lot of these Jackson detractors forget is one big element that Jackson did something Fosse didn't do here: He made the dance moves cool. Fosse wasn't being cool here. Just goofy. Jackson however added those important elements of coolness, style and presentation that Fosse did not have. That's the reason Jackson left such an enormous impression and Fosse did not.
I was referring to this: "That's the reason Jackson left such an enormous impression and Fosse did not" It wasn't just copying every move that made Jackson famous, MJ would not have been so popular, not have made such an impression, without Quincy Jones greasing the wheels. He supremely impacted MJ's popularity.
elektonics You're changing the subject because you want to diminish Jackson's talents. Jones was a mentor to Jackson. Guess what? Everyone great has mentors. So it's completely pointless to mention. You're grasping at straws.
If you would like to cure The fever called life Get some relief From all the struggle and strife The grandest medicine That I can propose Is under your nose A snake in the grass If you would like a spot Where life never goes Where you can leave your body Home in your clothes The finest travel agent You’ll ever meet Is right at your feet A snake in the grass One sting And you can say goodbye to all of your friends One sting And you’ll be singing as your spirit ascends Alls well that ends So any day or night Wherever you are If you would like to take A trip to a star The quickest transportation Yet known to man Is none other than A snake in the grass A snake in the grass A snake in the grass If you would like to leave That inhuman race And take up residence Out yonder in space When you are ready To go traveling on Sit right down upon A snake in the grass One sting Is quite enough To make you happy And free One sting And you’ll discover How relaxed you can be Posthumously And while you’re wandering Through the heavenly blue If you should see the Lord Come strolling in view Go up and say You bring Him best wishes From his fallen old chum A snake in the grass A snake in the grass A snake in the grass One sting It’s almost painless A snake in the grass A snake in the grass A snake in the grass I’ll be waiting
Sure, Michael Jackson learned from this guy, but he gave it a snap and polish that took it to another level. There's a big difference between stealing and being influenced and improving upon something, and Jackson had super mad dance skills.
I have never seen this footage or even knew of it. But always admired Bob Fosse's creativity. This reminds me so much of Michael Jackson as well. And why not, why not emulate the master, Mr. Fosse. This makes one wistful for yesteryear. Dancers are too precise or too perfect. I once heard that Bob Fosse would love to cover imperfections with his hat covering his lack of hair etc....it made him human and vulnerable. And you can't help but watch with awe.
scott walker I myself learned to moonwalk from a guy named Kenny something while we mopped the dining room floors in a Shoney's Big Boy at 2 am sometime in early 1981. The wet floors,greasy shoes and nitrous oxide made it easy. What struck me was that the cracked video shows MJ debuting his moonwalk in '83 so Kenny,and then me, beat him to it by 2 years! I was stationed at Virginia Beach,Va. by the time Billie Jean came out and shocked the hell out of my jarhead buddies and everyone else when I could do that cool dance move. MTV and the solo Micheal Jackson were both brand new and I was a moonwalking bad ass motherfucker that got laid regularly off that thing. I can still moonwalk, kind of, but nobody wants to fuck me anymore for it. Such is life
Michael may have been open about being inspired by Fosse but he sure as hell wasn't open about letting the world know he based his signature moves on this one routine. Fosse invented endless dance routines and moves. Michael pretty much stuck to this one style Fosse created for this one routine.
I also love this dance number too. At the end Bob F has a tail of rattlesnake rattlesnakes. I wonder how I can see many more of his dance numbers, danced by him. In the Rich Man's Frug, totally Fossie style, of dancing. He was choreographer. Ssssssssnake in the grass. Brilliant!!!
So were they just like "do whatever, we'll fix it in post" and then he just did the jazz of dance and they kept it long and added rattles and hissing sounds?
It's weird how a legendary dancer's cameo in a long-forgotten, 1970s children's film could spark such heated debate. And like most RU-vid debates, it doesn't take long for the whole thing to turn wildly absurd. OF COURSE MJ was influenced by Fosse. Fosse inspired literally EVERY dancer who came of age during the1960s and 1970s. The guy was a Broadway ICON. To say that MJ "ripped off" Fosse is like saying that a jazz musician playing trumpet is "ripping off" Miles Davis; there's a PRETTY GOOD chance that Miles is alredy his #1 influence. Nobody was more flattered by MJ's Fosse-style dancing in the "Billie Jean" video than Fosse himself. But to say that MJ's style was "stolen" from Fosse is not only false, but it ignores: a) MJ had a multitude of dancing influences, chief among them Fosse, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, and James Brown; b) MJ heavily incorporated popping into his dancing, a style that you won't find in any of Fosse's jazz-influenced choreography.
If you just played the audio of this without showing the visual footage, and you told me it was an evil Gene Wilder voicing the Snake, I'd probably believe it. They sound so similar it's unsettling! 😮
Wow it does look very similar! did Michael ever mention that Bob Fosse was one of his influences? he always talked about James brown, jackie wilson, Fred Astaire and others. but i don't remember him talking about Fosse, correct me if i'm wrong because i'm not sure. Either way both of them were great dancers!
@lukestur we are currently reading it and watched the movie a few days ago....im like in love with this part...and gene wilders bit...."will you play with me?" ".....no"
'I complained that I had not stayed on my toes like I'd wanted on Motown 25, Bob Fosse told me later, "Michael, it's never the steps that are important. It's the style". Moonwalker by Michael Jackson'
Careful people. Michael Jackson has said himself that one have to study the "masters" to be a good dancer. He was a relative young dancer in modern time. He was like a tornado on stage, he grabbed his croach, he dancet bally, he had tons of his own moves. It is obvious and not surprising he studied guys like Astaire, Sinatra and Fosse, they were "his" masters. He developed his unique style and became the one we love and miss, the King of Pop, Michael Jakson.
Michael Jackson was a genius for seeing this and removing all the samba and tango moves, and honing in on the bold, striking poses. It's safe to say Jackson was influenced by Fosse, but he certainly didn't copy him outright. Jackson took what was hinted at here and made it 20x better.
Hell no Fosse killed it mj straight stole all the moves this proves what people in the industry would whisper mj took any idea as if it was his also stole from jeffrey daniels from shalamar mj was a pedophile who is put on a pedestal by people who forgive only when its convenient
