Standard Cars Were a Mistake ...Or Were They? 

I feel kind of conflicted about the quality of car models in Gran Turismo. On one hand, the car models in Gran Turismo 7 are the best I've ever seen with how realistic and detailed they are but on the other hand, they take up to 9 MONTHS to make. Each of the car models in Gran Turismo 3 and 4 took one month to make while each of the cars in Gran Turismo 1 and 2 took a week to make. The longer time to build models combined with licensing becoming seemingly trickier than before have led to a lack of variety in the car list. And that was one of the best things about Gran Turismo (even if a lot of the cars were essentially copy-pasted). Personally, I'd be okay with lower quality car models if it meant I could drive a lot more interesting and unique cars (regardless of whether they're supercars or sh*tboxes) rather than drive the same cars I've already driven hundreds of times in other games. Maybe not as bad as the reused car models in Forza but not so detailed that they take as long as a human baby to develop.

I like how the issue essentially boils down to a transparency difference between the two franchises. It's like once you go into business you forget the adage of "Honesty is the best policy." If a higher up at Turn 10, or even the series director themselves just stepped out and said in an interview "Yes, we will be reusing old car models, there's nothing wrong with them, they still hold up, and our attention was focused elsewhere in the game. We have some newer car models, but we want there to be more variety in our list of vehicles, which using these older models allows for." It would have significantly lessened the backlash.

I’m glad they included the standard cars. It made it so you can drive a huge amount of cars. And I’m more than okay with the carry over from Gt4

With racing games in general, I think we're reaching a point where the time cost for super-mega-ultra-precise models is no longer worth it due to how empty it makes the game feel compared to the well-remembered titles. Trying to find this balance of quality versus quantity is one of many reasons why racing games have struggled in recent years; the modelling work produces beautiful cars, but then there's very few cars to go back to and replay with. Furthermore, depending on how the campaigns of the game are structured, this can then make the game feel more like a tour of the Lead Artist's handiwork than a gradual racing career progression.

I have always loved the sheer quantity in gt5 and 6. Just being able to browse and always find something new is so great. It also makes the goal of collecting them all a much bigger mountain to climb.

honestly i wouldnt mind standard cars that much as i rarely use inside view, and the more 90's economy boxes i can mess around with the better

Some of the shortcomings of Gran Turismo 5 and Gran Turismo 6 can be attributed to the PS3 being a difficult console to develop games for, even Kazunori Yamauchi said developing games for the PS3 was "a nightmare." Heck, Gabe Newell practically roasted Sony by calling the PS3 a "waste of everybody's time" and saying "it's harder to get [PS3 games] to the same standard as the 360 and PC versions" due to the complicated architecture of the PS3. There's a video by Modern Vintage Gamer titled "Why was the Sony PlayStation 3 so hard to develop games for?" that explains this perfectly.

I love what you said about GT6 being the only game which feels like an interactive car museum (can't recall the wording) to this day. GT6 is my favourite Gran Turismo. It showed me sooo many different and exciting cars at a young age which I have sometimes even read the descriptions of, which were very informative and gave great context (although sometimes wrong, but I wouldnt know as a 8 year old). To be perfectly honest - and that's due to me bot being bothered by graphics too much - I would love a system like Standard Cars from GT5/GT6 in today's racing games. Be it GT, Forza oder anything else. For me, variation is king. Even having like 25 different MX-5 NA's in GT6, was cool to me. Because all these different cars have different specs with a higher probability someone owning his car, finding his very own spec which is super cool. Great video

With the semi premium cars, there is a few weird decisions they made. For example the Suzuki GSX-R/4. The whole car is just an unchanged PS2 model, except for the steering wheel, which is as detailed as the premium cars

I played GT5 as a kid, and unsurprisingly the lower quality graphics of the standard cars didn't bother me at all. Took me a while before I knew there was really a difference other than some cars not having cockpit view. Also, on the topic of Forza, I remember the developers saying that some car models would get touched up before FH5. Something that, as far as I can tell, literally wasn't true. In the new Forza Motorsport, they redid the Subaru Impreza 22B. It looks great, but the fact that they updated one car in the many years since FM7, and it's not even one of the ones that previously looked way off to me, is pretty pathetic.

I'd like to just flood the CEOs of car companies' emails with pictures of their cars wrecked, just to prove to them, "yes, your car is not invincible. Stop treating them like they are."

I remember being so, so disappointed with GT3's lack of cars. Without internet at the time I didnt know why was that and kept thinking I had to unlock something, or my copy was a demo.

I think a key difference between GT Standard cars and Forza models is that they have different problems. GT Standard cars are low quality, as in the texture resolution and polygon count are low. Whereas Forza models, at least the ones that have been recycled for ages, aren't low quality but incredibly inaccurate. And I believe for people passionate about cars, inaccuracy is a much bigger crime. Especially with blatant examples like the Silvia S15, or even worse the Golf IV R32. With lower quality models you can at least suspend your disbelief and pay less attention to it as you focus on the track. While once you notice wrong proportions or missing/wrong parts on a car, it becomes hard not to look at it. This discussion always makes me wonder what the car manufacturers think about all this. They seem to be really insistent on limiting the damage model for these games as to have their cars always presented in a good light (which is nonsense but that's a topic for another day). Do they not care about Forza's inaccurate and outdated models? If I was CEO of marketing and licensing at Nissan and I'd take one quick glance at the Silvia S15 in the newest Forza game, I'd ask them to redo the model or pull it from the game entirely in a heartbeat. The idea that people may get the wrong perception of a car and end up not liking it because the proportions are all wrong sounds like anti-marketing.

they never were a mistake, and I dearly miss them. car pool is just not big enough to have an old GT experience with the new games

36:07 That's exactly what Turn 10 did with Forza Motorsport 1, 3 and 5 respectively. For example, the currently-used S15's original model was made for FM1 sometime from 2002-4 during FM1's development hell, its interior model originates from FM3 in 2009 (when Turn 10 started giving every single car a detailed interior, they retroactively modeled new interiors for cars recycled from FM1 & 2 that didn't previously have them), and PBR shaders were added for FM5 in 2013, later being revised with glass refraction shaders for the 2023 reboot

4:57 I am low key impressed that you managed to save that going around Indianapolis.

Keep in mind Standard cars were also tweaked to work with the new physics Just buy 5 different Miatas and check the differences between them

As a 3D model researcher (if that's even a term), most cars added in GT Sport and GT7 updates (that were in 5 and 6), were added in tessellation form. Tessellation models dynamically render as many polygons as required. This tech was added in GT6 with a small amount of cars but that's basically the Super Premium quality PD meant for PS4. Some cars like the Aventador and Mclaren MP4-12C are the non tessellation PS3 models in Sport and GT7. Some cars like the R33 GTR didn't even get texture updates. I think that's worse than reusing the premium models. Generally, cars added past 2010 were top premium quality as some GT5 Prologue and early GT5 cars lack the poly count to be ‘true’ premium cars, but that's probably beyond what people can see. I’ve said before that I don’t like PD’s tessellation models as they cut corners with it, quite literally. @Roflwaffle if you ever want a closer look into car model/texture quality then I’d be happy to help. I think PD should reuse the premium models from PS3 because they are better than what Forza or any other console game developers at this time can make. Great video as always!

It seems that each time Polyphony has to make a business decision, they just roll a d20

Every time I hear someone complain about car models in any racing franchise (GT or Forza or otherwise, but these two get the most flak) I groan a bit because, either you have all of your favorite cars, some of them look a little dingy Or you can have Generation Leap Syndrome and get Forza 5 where there's 9 cars you're wondering where everything went

I never had a problem with the standard model cars. In fact, I would've liked to see them get included in GT Sport and gradually get updated to premiums or super premiums. Polyphony could've gone with two teams which both have their own objectives in terms of car models: The first one makes new models never seen before while the other one remakes and improves the old ones. But now that the graphics improvements between console generations are getting absolutely marginal, I don't think Polyphony will have to scrap the models in GT Sport and GT7 anytime soon, so the car roster will keep growing. I reckon we would already be near the 2,000 car mark if they had decided to keep those standard cars

That's the main reason I still return to GT6 it is so good to have such a car variety, even in lower quality it's fun to drive them

The appeal of Gran Turismo 6 is actually the same sort of appeal of Need for Speed Most Wanted 2012, interestingly enough. Most fans of the Need for Speed series (specifically fans of the original Most Wanted from 2005) hated the lack of progression in Most Wanted 2012 (apart from the 10 Blacklist cars) but for the ones who loved the game, the lack of progression was one of the best things about it. The cars were all hidden out in the open world (the Blacklist cars became available after beating them) and it made the map feel like one giant playground where you could pick whichever car you wanted and mess around with it: drive aimlessly, wreck cops, do jumps and win races until you decided to jump into a new car (sometimes just driving around and switching to different cars the moment you came across them was entertaining enough). There was a kind of freedom in that type of gameplay that I haven't experienced in any other racing game. Gran Turismo 6 was like that multiplied by 100 but on closed courses instead of an open world and with the added bonuses of learning about the cars and the car companies that made them along with a photo mode. Obviously racing games with well thought out single player modes with good progression are better and they should definitely be the standard but Gran Turismo 6 and NFS Most Wanted 2012 offered a fun break from the usual standard and I think that's what makes them worth playing even if it doesn't appeal to everybody.

18:02 what makes it worse is the fact that it really is just a black outline... GT portable also had a black cut cockpit view but it was actually rendered in 3D i.e. you could see the hood/bonnet - while in GT5 you can choose a car with the longest hood/bonnet and you still couldn't see it in front of you. Don't get me started on the super stiff/fixed 3rd person view which is so static that it looks weird and is undriveable since you can't see the centrifugal forces which makes judgment difficult. They had it since GT4

Gran Turismo 6 was my first Gran Turismo game and it was absolutely magical to see the sheer amount of variety of cars thanks to the standard cars in the game, I miss them.

I think GT and Forza are both in a really rough position where they have to be a showpiece for their respective hardware. A game that looked just "OK" but had an insanely huge car and track list along with good fundamentals would be a dream come true for a lot of fans, but Sony and MS would never fund one even if PD or T10 wanted to make it, which I'm sure they don't.

They should just use GT6 or sport premium models as the new "simple" for GT7, get the car quantity up. I don't really need all cars to be perfectly modelled. Gameplay, physics and other things are more important. They need a damage model, and they need more championships, with maybe ten events in, to give a proper purpose ti the game.

I miss standard cars. Having a bajillion cars in the game was so fun. And the used car dealer in GT5 felt so fun because you would run into players in multiplayer with weird unicorn cars that are almost impossible to find. I remember going into FWD drag lobbies and dominating with my Dodge Neon SRT4, because it was the most powerful fwd car in the game by nearly 200hp. The hondas maxxed out at like 405, while the SRT4 had like 610. That doesnt really exist anymore. Having a Tank Car in GT6 didnt really mean anything, but having one in GT5? That was awesome! People didnt even know it existed, they were flabbergasted when they saw me pull it out.

Looking at the footage makes me miss city tracks from GT5 and 6, along with the Sierra track from 6. GT7's lack of city tracks still baffles me, and Sierra would've made for an awesome track to cruise around with the cars that have no real use. I genuinely prefer GT5's city tracks to what we had in 4, except for Monaco, Amalfi and Aria. Those two A's were especially cool, and Monaco is Monaco, but the rest of 4's city tracks were weirdly bad. To clarify, the Tokyo Expressway tracks in GT7 are more highway races than city races. City races are about the city streets, a race specifically taking place in the city, while highway races aren't exactly streets and whether they take place in a city or not isn't relevant to the track type.

Standard vs premiums was a big thing people focused on. Personally my biggest problem with Gt5 and 6 was the lack of race variety. Without the online seasonal events or online multiplayer there isn't much to do with a lot of the cars.

I remember making it a challenge to make some standard cars look as good as possible in screenshots in GT6 as possible (with lighting, silouettes and focus etc). Some people where very confused by those.

In reference to the point about gt6 premium cars updated for gt sport , I feel they're simply holding back the cars so they can drag updates. Gt 7 showed us polyphony really doesn't care what the fans want and it wouldn't surprise me if they're artificially prolonging the life of the game.

I’m actually playing Gran Turismo 5 these days! On PC (RPCS3), upscale to 4k. It’s the last GT game I played, and now revisiting it more than 10 years later. The whole standard vs premium models has seriously affected my purchase and car choices. Just feels wrong using the standard cars, too lacking in detail and no real cockpit view. Just feels more enjoyable to drive the premium models, enjoy their beauty.

Several or probably all standard cars had interior models, being more apparent in cars like the Suzuki GSXR/4 and Toyota Sera with their doors open in GT PSP. But they were blacked out anyway. Probably to prevent the players from seeing the interiors with admittedly very blurry textures

A bit of fun little thing i found while playing GT4 On emulator is that if you use some cheat to force the camera into cockpit mode, you'll find some cars actually have silhouette of interior components. Some has seats, whippers, shaded dashboard or a rear mirror. For example ; Supra mk4 and Skyline R34 So they probably planned to have cockpit view in PS2 era but scrapped it

GT 1 to 4 is basically a rounded 3D box with great textures... When it was necessary to make interiors and a full 3D body this took more time to made a model. This was the reason the number of cars dropped drastically in GT Sport.

In the end, Polyphony had all the licenses for the Cars.

I liked the way the used car dealership worked in GT5, it encouraged you to be creative with your car choice. They just needed to make the event requirement cars available at all times

I don't remember where I saw this (I think it was a promotional video before the release of gt5 ?) but I remember the devs talking about how they started modeling the cars using splines (curves basically) instead of polygons so their models would be future-proof. You still have to rework the model into polygons to get it in game (because spline models have in theory infinite detail) but once you have modeled the car once, you don't have to remodel it from scratch.

I miss most of the cars from FM4... mostly the starter cars and many of the tracks. I'd be happy with older cars as an option...

I personally love the idea of porting the old cars forwards for a larger roster.

The peugeot 106 picture with carbon hood and the ibiza on the back is mine ! Lol posted on gtplanet ages ago !

A lot of the cars from the PSP game were added into GT5 obviously to boost the car roster but also because of the feature that allowed you to trade cars back-and-forth between the PSP, Gran Turismo, and Gran Turismo5 This was a feature that wasn’t all that great but it was pretty cool for the very few cars that you could not get in Gran Turismo five, that you had to have the PSP game to be able to transfer them over to GT5 !

GT5 without standard cars would have ended up like Forza Motorsport 5 in Xbox One. FM5 had a really low car count. And most of them were completely new models. And people hated it. It is still the lowest rated FM game in the series. Downgrading from FM4's 650+ cars to just 200 didn't do well with fans. So naturally in FM6 and FM7 they started bringing back the FM4 models. Of course people aren't happy with that either. The point is it is impossible to satisfy any of us because we're spoilt. However the new Forza Motorsport (8) is completely bullshit. Not only did they take 6 years to make, but also blatantly lied about it being built from the ground up. The car levelling up system is the last straw. GT7 has even bigger issues. What's the point of all these stellar looking cars if there's 0 events to use them in? They forgot about the game part of the game and made an expensive tech demo. Then resort to cheap tricks to lengthen the gameplay. I'll take the standard cars over that bullshit.

Jaguar XF R could possibly be a car intended for the PSP game, since the XF R concept likely would've been shown in 2009, but was simply could due to lack of time to implement the model in the game

While I personally don’t mind the looks of the car models in Forza Motorsport, I am disappointed in Turn 10 for their lack of transparency. I honestly couldn’t care less whether the models are new or reused. As long as they look good and have some kind of noticeable enhancement from their previous gen counterparts, then that’s good enough for me, but it does annoy me when a company puts so much emphasis on a tagline like “built from the ground up” only for them to showcase something that suggests otherwise. I’m not trying to hate on the game. In fact, I’m having lots of fun with it so far, and I even like the car progression system since it gives you something to work toward and allows you to save money towards buying new cars. However, companies need to stop this crap if they want to build and maintain trust from consumers. Communication is key, and the sooner businesses realize that, the better off they’ll be.

The non-GT4 standard cars, especially that Jaguar, are all so interesting. On the subject of anachronisms, I've been wondering a lot lately about what newer cars from GT7 would look like as standard cars in GT4. Stuff like the Urus, Raptor, Genesis G70, C7/C8 Corvette, all VGTs, et cetera.

To counter-argue what you said at 31:31 - If They were to Not use the GT3/GT4 Models, then the decision as to which cars should be made would be Vastly different, and we would still get that Variety that you talked about Since they knew that they were going to use the older models, they didn't have the pressure to make Premium commuter models {but even so, they did with the Cappuccino - as you mentioned} meaning that they could make them if need be Nonetheless, Great video and keep up The good work! :D

4:53 An inertia drift at 370km/h, that's wild

finally someone explaned whats wrong with s15

At this point, I would fucking take them if it gave us more content in GT7.

" .bUiLt FrOm ThE gRoUnD uP " At least Polyphony has standards in the first place

cant wait for "MY TOP 10 FAVORITE THINGS ABOUT GT3 OR SOMETHING IDK" really excited for the 240p standard video goodness

They should add Gran Turismo 1/2 models as "Nostalgic Models"

"Look at how outdated these low poly models from 2004 are compared to the new ones" me, who grew up on genesis and ps1: "they're exactly the same picture"

Forza back then had very polished damage models thus detailing cars themselves could had been very hard by the time, yet in this "rebooted" Forza not only they recycled the old cars, but also nerfed the damage models... lose to lose situation, I really hope they remodel a few cars but that may never happen.

I am very grateful for the standard cars decision, since it made it possible for me to drive the crx, prelude, and many others... something I will never experience in gt7

I was still using a CRT when Gran Turismo 5 came out, so I couldn't tell the difference between the Standard and Premium models anyway.

Old vehicle models were also common in Farming Simulator series.

GT6 is the perfect car sandbox with the spec II mod.you can just do anything you want at anytime with the crazy amount of content.

GT was honest about his models and the community hated. Forza lies about that until this day (build from the ground up). Today GT car quality was actually build from the ground up indeed.

14:51 I like how this is being said while you can see the god-awful faceting on the back left fender as the light reflecting is super jaggy

My heart brims with nostalgia from GT5 and 6 already, and having Ridge Racer Type 4 music just hits me in right in the good old days. Damn

My only issue with standard cars back then was more that some cars were only relegated to standard status and were not chosen to be premiums compared to other cars. The big one back then was the mk4 Supra. But a couple of muscle cars + there being not a single australian premium (there still isn't one ffs), was also annoying. Especially when they had stuff like the original Fiat 500 be premium and that was a complete novelty car.

I played through GT4 fully the other month and found myself being pleasantly surprised not only by the sheer amount of cars (and new by the period’s time!) but the variants. I was only 7 when it came out but I’m lucky enough to have owned many cars before playing it again now and I love being able to drive cars I or my friends have owned, a niche J2 LTD mx5 for example. I hope they find some happy middle ground between quality and quantity. The GT7 quantity side feels even lower due to the massive prices on legendary cars as I’ll never get to drive all of them

for some reason the talk about damage models made me remember that classic video called "Not the real crashing simulator" with the blue Focus spinning around

Lately this channel become one of my fav. on youtube ever There so much effort and dedication on this videos ong great video man!

I've actually thought the standard cars were somehow endearing. Just having these PS2 models drive around in GT5's amazing lighting engine had a certain charm to it.

As someone who was out of racing games for years I'm not really in the best position to argue about the quality of the car models trough the years. But since I'm at the stage where I'm building a pc with some focus on the new Forza game and also waiting for a GT7 deal, even if some models are not up to the current gen standard I'm just happy if we can have a decent amount of older cars in any way. I'm one of those people who prefer to pick old cars and economy *s**t-boxes" and upgrade them as much as i can over ultra modern hypercars and such... In the end, there's alway gonna be people who are going to complain either about quality or the quantity of cars in those games. Great video btw! Got me to subscribe 👌

My favorite car in the entire GT series is probably the Griffith 500. This car is not included in later games because it was a standard model and they never bothered to create a higher quality model. I'd rather have my favorite cars represented with relative mechanical accuracy and low quality visuals than not at all.

Fun fact, Ferraris in the Ghost era of NFS have no modifications available to them aside from wheels and performance because Ferrari didn't want players "ruining" the image of their cars. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari mandated zero body damage in GT5 for the same reason.

I remember that interview where Kaz said that Standard cars in GT5 wouldn't have cockpit view, and how the article was scrubbed from the internet within a day or two and everyone on GTPlanet went absolutely frickin' *MAD.* Needless to say, it was a *HUGE* deal back in the day.

I think standard cars and ported Forza cars show how impressive 6th gen consoles really are. They would never put PS1 cars in a PS2 game but it's not an issue for PS2 cars to be in PS3 and even XBOX cars being made for a 22 year old console can still hold on in a new game

7:42 Honestly, I'd take a video of just various car sounds in GT without background music. Its oddly relaxing.

15:40 The R8 LMS in the GT5 Spec 2.0 intro is also one of the few standard cars in the modern GT intros

30:02 GT Sport/7 have PBR rendering, that's why. I think they ported the PS3 models but still had to update all the textures and new material shader for them and probably also used quick tesselation of the models in order to update them for GT Sport and GT7, so they look correct/the same as the new NEW car under the same new rendering engine. That's why they couldn't just release Sport with 500 cars.

First, I will say thanks for crediting my video and linking it even. I have enjoyed your analysis videos like this or your perspective on how PD botched GT7. With that said, I honestly think an alternate GT5 where it was just the premium cars would be interesting and I personally would think the game wouldn't be that much worse off. While I had a lot of fun with the PS2 models being added to the game and I even recall defending them back in 2010; I personally think now that they were a mistake. Yes, GT5 wouldn't have 1,000 cars to brag about and people would be missing those iconic models, but Polyphony Digital could've then better spent their time on focusing on premium cars to make a GT career around them. I don't know how much time the modelling team had to spend on making the old models work on the PS3 games, but I think it could've even been enough time to probably even add a few more premium cars. The focus on just these premium cars could've still made a fun career mode around them since they were able to do that with Gran Turismo 3. Better yet, around the time GT6 came out; the time spent on the improved standards (or what people call semi-premiums) could've been spent into making those cars full-on premium cars instead. ------------------- Though bringing up GT Sport does bring up another issue I have with PD; they don't seem to know when to stop in the pursuit of detail. They really should've stopped with the poly-increase after the PS3 premiums and just work on refining them for GT Sport instead and later GT7. There's a point when focusing on visuals too much hurts the game more than helps it and it seems they gotten to that point in GT Sport and especially 7.

I was so happy they add those standard cars and I didn’t think those standard models would take time out of poly to make more premiums.

I suspect you need to think in degrees. Models done near the end of a game's cycle might've had hardware upgrades made to the scanning data, allowing for "premium" models to be polished into newer hi-res models whereas other models that stood lower in the priorities list may have been done at lower res hardware to get them done. There's never gonna be a solid answer without having someone on the inside to quote, and even if you did, they'd have to be someone high enough in the management ladder to be able to tell you whether that was the case or just conjecture. Interesting to dive into, but all sorts of factors could've played into which models could be converted to super premium, premium, etc(much less the post scanning polish up process that brought other standard models to a higher resolution standard).

I don't mind there being a difference in car detail, that looks like a necessary sacrifice. However what I do have a huge problem with is how in GT5 the structure and design of the game itself was built around this. I came back to play this game recently and I was surprised by how few cars I had on my old save, before finally realizing that my own garage was split between premium and standard cars and I've only been looking at the few premium ones at first. In my eyes the correct way to deal with having some lower quality models is to be upfront about it, but not handle them any different in the game. Pointing out the premium status is okay, but putting everything else into a used dealership with limited availability and restricting them from photo mode is just making the status a bigger deal than it should be.

29:10 you actually can, most assetto corsa mods are GTS/GT7 ports so if you were to ask around in the AC community (mainly touge stuff) you might get your answer

Kinda reminds me of my own experience as a Sim Racing modder, some car models I made, others were acquired from past modders throughout 20 years, and sometimes jumping to my latest mod for one car division to another is like going back in a time machine, lol.

so quick personal note about GT5 standard cars, in the classic american race at Monza, I used a bright Orange Plymouth Superbird (The one with the giant wing) and somehow during one race I rolled the car and when I went to the exterior review I was surprised to see that the wing was now bent.

Just like the Jaguar XFR was a new standard, many ps2 standard never made or rip GT5&6. Like the Nissan pulsar Gti, the 1st Gen Rx7, the 83 rwd Toyota Starlet & the 91 turbo fwd Starlet and the 4door civic Fiero top name a few of my faves. I don't mind the standard , cause it made pp based online shuffle races fun in GT5 & your right 6 does feel like a museum and ive driven every miata streets of willow and i can feel the subtle handling differences. GT6 handling model fleshes out subte details. Truly a great simulator,

This is a great analysis of the difference between the reuse of care models from GT and Forza. I started off playing the GT games with the ps3 games and I remember the premium, semi premium, and standard cars and I thought it was alright because most of the cool cars were premium models like the Bugatti Veyron (gt6) but was disappointed in things like the mk4 supra or the roadrunner not being premium. But at least there was acknowledgement of the distinction between premium and nonpremium. In the new forza, they just keep slapping in these old ass models and not saying shit like no one will notice lmao. And then have the nerve to say built from the ground up.

I...kinda expected the topic "Standard Cars" being something like road-legal cars. This was unexpected, but very interesting to watch anyways.

Hey great vid as per usual man!

I would legit take a Forza or GT game with OG XBox/PS2 polygon counts on the cars, but higher def textures, modern physics, and more cars on track. Give me performance and gameplay over flashy visuals. Substance over style. Also the level of detail Polyphony puts into their cars dramatically increases the time it takes to add a car to the game. Hell, even drop the polygon count to 360/ps3 era.

even in gt6 i love the inclusino of the standard cars, it was the only game out of the 4 i have (4,5,6 a nd sport) where i was able to try the auto union v16 type c for example... the liberty that the gt6 gave me and everybody was perfect in that regards!

I totally understand why people disliked standard cars in the PS3 games. But to me, GT5 and 6 simply couldn't have existed if not for standard cars IMO, and owe a lot of their charm to them. If we were to do a challenge run of GT5 or 6 where we specifically avoid having even one standard car appear in a race, we'd be locked to just licence tests, special events, and photo travel. That is to say, the fact that we had a career mode at all in 5 and 6, the last of the proper, structured career mode of GT, is only possible because of standard cars. I also opine that, by extension, the reason we don't have better career modes in Sport and 7 is simply because we don't have the sheer variety of quickly made standard cars anymore. A pickup truck race wherein I get TWO whole ass pickups to choose from? A Kei car race where my choices are a snappy Honda Beat, an FF Copen, and an OP 6 speed S660? That's not a matter of preference; that's a matter of IQ. That said, I don't think we will ever see standard cars back in the series again, or see such a vast and clear divide between cars in the game. While I loved having 20 FD RX-7s to mess around with and collect in different colours, retaining old assets in a new game isn't just about the models; it also limits how much the rest if the game can grow. If PD comes up with a new way to more accurately capture handling tendencies of a real car for example, these old models would still be using old "handling data". If we one day get to open doors, boots, and bonnets in GT games, standard cars will miss out. I often catch myself thinking that maybe video games nowadays have gotten too expensive and time consuming to make, and we'd be much better forgoing this insane graphical fidelity and just roll back to something between PS2 and PS3 quality models, and have it consistent across the whole car list. Small anecdote to close out a long ramble: regarding the exact same model and year of some premium and super premium models, I think there's a fair chance that PD has rescanned the models for the PS4. Cars in PS3 couldn't activate their turn signals, and knowing how anal PD are, I'll bet they went back to the same people and the same car to rescan it. The '94 F1 probably is Jay Leno's. The '90 RX-7 GT-X and '02 Spirit R are the exact models Mazda keeps around in their factory. It's probably easier for PD to arrange for a time and date to scan a car they know are kept in showroom condition, whom they already have a working relationship with. Just a thought.

I LOVED the used dealership in GT5 AND you could trade cars online! it was a magical time for my friends and I back in the day, trying to collect our favorites, and come across cars we've never heard of before, And I miss the crazy number of cars, every racing game I play to this day feels tiny because of how many hours I spent in GT5/6

The difference between GT and Forza reusing car models is that GT never really tried to hide it, at the very most they were vague about it and at the time, it was a one generation difference of quality Whereas Forza is now using 3 generation old car models that aren't just low quality, but really, really inaccurate and in some cases very deformed, yet they continue to lie that the game is "built from the ground up", hell, they even said on several occasions that all cars have been remodeled. Then again, FM(8)'s launch has been so disastreous, you can find a bug or a broken part in pretty much any car, be it reused or new. The Golf R's interior is missing the A pillar, the M5's widebody guts the car of its insides, the FC RX7's exhaust pops out when you equip a rollcage, some cars have broken customization options, certain cars have broken animations, widebodykits don't add spacers on many cars, it's just really an inexcusable mess.

The thing that really grated with those Standard cars was the liveries on race cars. I understand that it took time to properly model all of the cars, but updating the blocky liveries from the PS2 days ought to have been a relatively quick job. More than anything, it was those horrible liveries that made it horribly obvious that they were PS2 ports. I feel like that's something that could've been easily updated in the DLCs and should've only been a day or two of work per car. Even in GT6 with the SP cars, there were plenty of cars that weren't SP and looked horrible.

2:17 one of the best music tracks in the whole franchise. Good taste, “sunset haze” is it called?

Great video as always! I personally massively preferred having the greater variety of cars to the higher standard for all - gt7 has really suffered with a lack of cars. It feels like they put so much effort into creating the cars now theyve forgotten to put other content into the actual game... like having a proper career mode.

That is a great debate video I feel the issue and reasoning of new Forza is simillar to GT5´s one, probally the Forza devs got scaried that people would notice the missed cars more than the fact they are reusing models They should had more transparent and mentioned that the 'Built from Ground Up" part was about the tracks and the physics of the game, instead of in vague manner that made people assume that it included the car models as well

Now it makes me wonder if anyone could simply port a GT3/4 or older car into the new GT7, jus to see if the polygons an textures would even last lol

23:30 i used to do that a lot, that's why I spent over 1000 hours into the game, just trying a new car every day

I've made this comment before on this channel. I liked standard cars a lot not for their looks but for what they brought to the experience. As you've pointed out, one of the great features of the original GT games were the selection of "relatable" cars you could drive. It managed to feel like you were discovering new things to drive all the way through the game especially since brand events gave almost everything purpose. And for someone who grew up with these games seeing these cars disappear essentially in GT7 was somewhat of a let down besides the games other problems. If i go to the Peugeot dealer i can have a 208 and a RCZ (which i do own) and that's cool but i also really wish i could have the og 206 S16, or the 406. For every brand in GT7 besides the few true boutique brands you can find one or oftentimes multiple cars that you used to enjoy but can't. There's a lot of history there that's lost. When you think about it, what game in 2023 and beyond is going to allow you drive or just look at some of the hundreds of standard cars there were in GT6 ? My bet is on never. No one is going to go through that effort besides the odd modder for a PC sim. I think it's especially worrying since GT will forever be stuck on Sony's platforms. And consoles by nature, die of old age, lose support. I can download GT6 and it's updates right now on my PS3 but how long is that going to last ?

some of the open top standard cars having a basic interior helped