Just in case it wasn't clear in the video, I'm talking about personal inventory and the kiosk functionality for your character's gear and not about the cargo lifts in hangars.
I like the paper doll inventory being accessible anywhere in the station and not have to find a MFD to change armor etc but don't mind having a proper interface to distribute your gear to your ship be it as cargo or assigned to the ship.
Ya I'm not fan, hitting i was a totally acceptable mechanic it's what we gammers expect. I don't like the idea of complicating something you have to interact with constantly. No search function.....like wtf no excuse that needs to be added to the normal inventory we have right now. The things they are doing lately.....
It's missing a core thing that should be in every inventory system. Able to search, stack, filter, and favorite. Scrolling through paper doll, or scrolling through lines on a terminal, it all sucks if you can't find your one item through an inventory of 100s of items. Even worse if you can't stack multiple same items into one spot. Too many things in the inventory can't be stacked when they easily should be.
The functionality of the UI in either case both need improvement, ignoring performance issues and bugs. A search function and favorite function would be a huge time saving feature, but I still think that adding more steps to effectively do the same thing as before doesn't add anything to gameplay. The step for going to the kiosk is fine though, I'm fine with inventory having a physical location.
Yeah I feel like it could at least be made fairly tolerable with some more quality of life UI features. Even just being able to create named sets of gear so you can quickly pull up all your favourite gear for a specific task. Will be interested to get my hands on it and see how they improve but it seems like it leaves a lot to be desired right now.
Evo here. It takes longer to pick out an outfit in game than it does to get dressed from my closet and dresser in the morning. That's all that needs to be said.
Oof and that’s one of the things that really worries me about this change. It increases the time it takes (adds friction to use Morph’s term). This is already NOT a frictionless aspect of the game. Additionally, I think it’s going to be a real PITA to outfit ships if we have to essentially hand load all of the interior/exterior cabinets/lockers/etc that are being added in the gold standard for all ships
You make a very good point, not incorporating the paper doll system as the gear kiosk UI is a huge missed opportunity that just make sense and should be pursued by CIG instead. If I have to use a kiosk to gather my items, and have to use the current "floaty and unphysicalized" paper doll system directly after gathering my items form said kiosk, why can't I just outfit myself inside of the kiosk ui itself?
Indeed, well said. I wish I could have shown the footage because it would have been easier to convey that this drag drop paperdoll UI still kind of exists.
Exactly this. And just add an option in the paper doll screen to place items that are not being equipped but that you want to physicalize into the kiosk dispenser drawer or an already physicalized nearby container. As it currently exists they have added extra steps for no valid purpose. Classic CIG move though. Nobody there seems capable of thinking ONE STEP further.
hes factually incorrect. the entire paper doll system has NOT been removed. he may not have seen how to open it, but its there. put stuff in the drawer, hit i and boom same exact interface, drag all the stuff onto your body, works the same. talk about mis information. video should be taken down its so bad
It is surprising they did not use the kiosk just as access to the local inventory, in the same way you access it in ships when clicking on cupboard. This would have meant near zero development and not added a new UI and a new step to manage.
I was saying to the my org, that 'I don't mind putting on shoes, but I don't want to have to tie the laces'. There is a definite line of 'enough is enough', and the kiosk inventory crosses that Rubicon, more thank I mix metaphors.
This personal inventory change feels like the equivalent of a movie not skipping the mundane travel but showing the character walking for an hour without anything of interest happening.
The problem is we need armour lockers to go with our weapon racks, where we can store sets of clothing / sets of armour ... but CIG made inventory drawers that just add mouse clicks, when what we need is the ability to make gear sets so we can just put on (eg) the medic set or the pilot set and go.
but you know how CIG will implement them? The same way you load up your weapons locker: carry single boxes of each indivual piece of armour to the locker and load each one one after the other in there... have fun loading 6 of them very time your ship get's destroyed, or you loose the loadout.
"you get any game time in before work?" "Ya man, I got about an hour and half in and got dressed for a few missions I want to do later that I may get seal clubbed in 6 minutes."
If an hour or two a day is all you can spare, and you feel the need to whine about it online; stop playing video games. You clearly need to rethink what you spend your free time on, and just can't (or won't) address that. I can already hear the "But that's what I enjoy doing!" retort, but for the love of god, there are plenty of other fun things you can do with your time. Hell, even if you feel you can't drop gaming - explore other kinds of games. There's plenty of awesome games out there, and frankly many of them deserve to be played more than SC.
They were so preoccupied on whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. My two cents on this is that the only one that should be complicated is the loading of large physicalized containers for cargo missions and trade. They do not need to over complicate minor inventory management like this.
100% agree. I love this game's immersion up until the point that it feels like I'm picking fly shit out of pepper just to accomplish basic tasks that, as you said, should have minimum friction. This almost reminds me of how in Fable 3 they got rid of a normal pause screen to physicalize the whole thing, making basic actions be way more convoluted and annoying than anyone wanted.
I still have nightmares about the Fable 3 menu. The Fable 2 inventory was a mess, but what they did was like trying to fix a flat tire by ripping out the engine block.
Simulation isn't the same thing as immersion. Immersion is a mental state that is created by fluid interaction with the game. Some of the most immersive games where a player can lose the most time aren't first person games with any amount of simulation. Like red alert, stellaris, factorio, ARPGs. Immersion is hurt by getting in the way of the player. Being indecisive and trying on different armor's quickly is better for immersion. Not being able to do that reminds the player they are bound by rules of a piece of computer software and that they must navigate its rules.
Having to run over to a console on a wall doesn't feel any more or less immersive to me that just pressing "I" did and pressing "I" is a nice QoL feature. I'd appreciate that in any other MMO and would appreciate them allowing us to do it, but also keeping the wall consoles for people that want it. Inventory management isn't the part of this game I want to be sim-like. The ships are, and sadly they aren't very simmy to fly right now.
It's totally backwards, right? The parts that are supposed to be difficult and interesting get dumbed down and the parts that should be streamlined and easy get complicated.
CIG have been dumbing down the sim aspect of the flight model for far too long. The skill ceiling is lower, especially now with the more arcade like master modes where pew pew for half an hour to blow up a ship you’re obviously creaming just to get the thing to soft death. It’s all ‘work in progress’ of course, but as with this, it’s frustrating when the translation is ‘worse than we had previously’.
Right, interacting with a magic vending machine isn't any more immersive or realistic than just pressing 'I' and interacting with a magic menu that way
@@CrowDawg11 If it spat out a box and you opened it and all the objects were there, fully physicalised inside, that would be immersion. Give us the paper doll system until such time..
@@Libertas_P77 not really, because how did those items get into that machine for it to spit them out in a box? You're telling me random vending machines just have whole sets of armor and weapons and clothes and bottles of Cruz just waiting for someone to come request one that's exactly identical to the ones they own? It makes absolutely no sense at all. Buying a new item, maybe. But claiming items you already own through some sort of magical vending machine system is literally dumber than just pressing a keybind and having access to everything in a menu.
This seems to be a major issue with the overall direction right now. Everything has to be physicalized, and it's a massive pain in the ass. You're not wrong about the time sink aspect. Every time I log in with friends we spend most of an hour while everyone runs around buying stuff, getting geared up, getting ready. Then we get wiped out by a bug 10 minutes into an activity, and do it all again just to quit after 2 fruitless hours of mostly trying to gear up.
Jesus Christ, why are you all surprised. It must be all the new players coming to the game. It’s not unnecessary this was the plan. How else you gonna grab your items, an invisible drawer that magically appears, what we have now is a placeholder and that has always been communicated. how you access everything that is physical. You go to a destination to retrieve it. There is no invisible drawer that magically appears out of nowhere. This isn’t like any other MMO and this has been the plan for years. Nobody does it like Star citizen where strategic decisions stump everything else. They could use a rework to the UI of the kiosk but doesn’t change the fact that everything is physical and not arcade like any other game.
@@OO7BOND11 because they actually went through with this dumbass idea. Inventory management has the potential to become the most annoying and tedious part of any game if it's not done right. SC just destroyed a functional inventory system deliberately and replaced it with something that will cause nothing but tedium and frustration. If this was the plan then it's [insert avengers iron man meme] "not a great plan."
Just wait until Chris brings in toilet, shower and permadeath gameplay! Then you will be lucky if you can make it to an actual piece of three minute long gameplay within two days!
@@robynhighart2026 Indeed! Can't wait to take a dump during quantum jump! Just hope they fixed the bug that makes you getting ejected during q-jump until then.
I can picture it now. Certain foods upset your stomach and you have to run to the toilet every 2 minutes. Constantly on the verge of soiling oneself. Bent over with cramps. Toilet citizen.
One addition I would like to see is a loadout system for FPS gear at these terminals, let me configure and save different loadouts and quickly call them up, then have them be displayed in the same way a looted enemy is displayed with the same functionality plus a claim function for missing "greyed out" items in the loadout as long as I own them with insurance.
All along one of my biggest concerns about this game has been that even if CIG does eventually manage to release a reasonably stable & bug-free 1.0 version of the PU with all the basic game loops & maybe 5 star systems or so...it'll prove to be just too focused on putting "realism" over "fun gameplay" for the average casual mainstream gamer who likes the sci-fi genre to enjoy. Whenever I talk about aspects of the game like this physical inventory system, Death of a Spaceman, the new flight model, etc. to people I know who are still on the fence about trying SC, a lot of them tell me that it frankly just sounds annoying to have to deal with in a video game.
Thing is, this game was very clearly never intended to appeal to mainstream audiences. In spirit, it's really a quirky little indie game where one guy gets to play around with unusual game idea he finds interesting without caring too much about appealing to trends or the masses. The difference is, this quirky little indie game has $700 million raised, which makes people mistakenly assume this is intended to have the same kind of mass appeal ethos of typical AAA games.
It's so funny how so many people defend this by saying "this was always the plan". That may be the case, but that doesn't mean the plan is a good one. Adding more tedium and time to a system without any return other than immersion is never a good idea. Dragon's Dogma 2 is a perfect recent example for this. The devs of that game made the deliberate choice of limiting the fast travel system for added immersion, claiming it's just a case of making traversal more interesting. And what did they do to make traversal more interesting? Absolutely nothing. They didn't even bother putting some rng into enemy spawns, so as a result you would always fight the same bunch of enemies at the exact same places over and over again cos the game forced you to backtrack a ton. My prognosis: they'll roll this back for the 1.0 launch or make a hybrid system that still allows classic inventory access because by then they'll have realized (hopefully) that adding massive amounts of tedium for the sake of immersion won't sell the game well.
Especially when it's not actually even any more immersive! How are magic terminals any more immersive than a simple paper doll menu? They aren't! More tedium and time investment are literally the only effects of the new system.
I think physicalizing the world CAN be great, but the devs must constantly ask themselves whether it is in the service of good gameplay. The fact that they don't seem to realize how much time they're asking of players already and persist in doing things like this tells me that they aren't considering gameplay. The seem to be more interested in creating a more realistic world. If I really wanted something like this, I could just as easily go play any of the games which are made for this kind of content, or you know, go clean my apartment.
This is a point that many forget: Looking back through Chris Roberts' games production history, he has never had good gameplay ideas. He has great ideas for scope, setting and player freedom, but not for actual gameplay. He was fired from Freelancer and Digital Anvil because he couldn't get the game made. I had hoped the man, being a decade older when SC was kickstarted, would have learned something about execution. But here we are, 12 years later.
@@jackinthebox301 Yeah, I've made the same point in other comments. I feel like the reason he has been able to deliver anything in his career is because he always had peers and/or managers that gave him good advice or forced him to make tough choices. Back at Origin, he was surrounded by people at his level that very likely said the things he may not have wanted to hear but needed to. After Origin that disappeared, and I think its why his later projects were always so fraught.
@@SirMadsen Let me put it this way then - they aren't considering a player's time. If "gameplay" to you is spending hours organizing and preparing, fine. But for most players, I don't think they're particularly interested in spending an hour or more getting ready for the core elements of gameplay in this game. Most SC players are adults with limited time, and Star Citizen has timesinks galore. This is yet another fiddly and unnecessary timesink.
Oh, yeah, I also forgot -- the extra steps helps lessen the database load by splitting the tables. This was something that I used to do to reduce database workloads. CIG did the same with the ASOP terminals, splitting how the entitlements for ships are processed when accessing them for the first time. You can see a similar design with splitting the queries between the kiosks and the storage container, so there are fewer items being accessed while you access your inventory by moving them from the local inventory to the drawer. I'm sure CIG will refine the experience a bit more in due time but it's likely a way to alleviate database queries in the interim.
3 месяца назад
This! I think no1 sees this from this point of view.
We need Technology 4 gameplay, not gameplay for technology. Tech solution exist and are being made, but the priorities of the leadership are backwards. I trust Ines and all the people who talk about a “fluid experience” in the game. (perspective: 6yrs Senior Software Engineer & MSc in Interactive Arts)
Sure, but as a player I don't really care how the back-end works, I care about the player experience. If it's not fun or too fiddly and time-consuming, players are going to have a bad time and complain about it. If CIG can't build their game in a way that works for players then they just have a game that isn't fun. We shouldn't be here to make excuses for CIG. Frankly, I think they know that keeping the game in an alpha nomenclature benefits their bottom line because it gives them the freedom to wait as long as they need to for technology to improve it keeps player hope alive that whatever they're worrying about could improve later on.
That actually makes it so much worse. So they’re implementing poor gameplay on purpose because they can’t fix the foundational tech. I think the theory about MMs is correct that it was implemented not for parity but because the servers could only handle slowed down gameplay.
As someone that has long periods of not playing then coming back, my main mission is bunkers, I think that spending even more time prepping to only die early in the mission would make retrieving my stuff even more frustrating.
Sadly, this one lends truth to the argument that folks brought up when they announced removing the "magic bag of holding" in that, at some point, it moves from increasing immersion to creating tedium. The paper doll system is a vast improvement from the original item setup from years ago but the upcoming personal inventory setup takes what is now a 2 step interaction (Open inventory and drag item to equip) and turns it into 4 or 8 step interaction (go to kiosk, open inventory, extract desired item, equip item) depending on whether you are happy with your initial choices.
I honestly feel like a mix between the current system and the planned system would be best. Require the player to be in a specific area. Changing rooms, your cargo lift, airlooks or similar where he can just use the current inventory UI. Improve that UI a bit with quick filters (just press 1 button instead of opening a dropdown from which you choose your filter). Let the same items stack. E.g. the standard yellow store bought multitool. If it's a white variant it can be a new item, if it's another yellow one just stack them. I think this would be a good compromise between 'total immersion' and the need for players that those non relevant gameplay things go quick and aren't a bother.
I agree but not entirely, I do like the concept of physicalised inventory be a use it makes the game more immersive than a magic invisible menu to drag from. The terminals are a nice idea but I think we should still be able to drag stuff onto ourselves from the terminal. While maybe things like guns and other larger items get physicalised.
Definitely not. That's not how it was ever going to be. I'm surprised there's so many people who didn't do their research and thought otherwise. The inventory system is going to get even more realistic than this. Sorry, but facts.
I think you're totally right. The new kiosks should definitely just open the 'paperdoll' screen to just drag and drop your gear onto your character. The only changes should be adding a search function and it just bringing up gear that your character can carry/equip/wear (bigger stuff comes from the freight elevators). Do people have to know exactly how much ammo, etc. they need before calling it? This new system seems to just add an extra step for no good reason. I think the kiosks are cool and add extra immersion by getting your gear from them, rather than pulling items 'out of thin air', but shouldn't cause players an inconvenience.
Why even have the kiosks at all though? The magic vending machines aren't any more realistic or immersive than the magic I menu anyway, it's nothing but extra steps while still not making any more sense from a realism or immersion standpoint, which was the whole entire one and only point of them to begin with.
Yeah I haven't been encouraged to play lately because it just takes too much time to do everything. For every 5 minutes of good gameplay there's an hour of either boring or buggy gameplay
I saw your frustration when we were in game together :-). I assume it's hard for non-EVOs to comment on the system until they start using it as we can't share videos or screenshots. I love the personal hangars and that you can load vehicles and ships into your ship. That you can customise the hangar and even buy furniture or invite friends. It's all great and definitely a step forward. And if you for some reason don' t like it there is always standard ASOP / hangars available. You are absolutely right about the freight elevators: they are great as well and will add a lot to the game (they're almost stable). The interesting thing is that if you don't want to manually load your cargo you can avoid that by using the AI to load your ship. The time it takes is atrocious at the moment (5+ hours for a C2) but that is something that can and should be tuned as CIG learns the right balance. But why would you? 3d Tetris is fun. The new personal inventory design on the other hand is just so tedious to use and can't be avoided unless you don't use it altogether. One of my experiences this week: 1) Go to the kiosk and realise you don't have an armor. 2) Go to the shop to buy armor and also a backpack. 3) Walk around the station to find a kiosk. 4) Using the UI is hard when you have a lot of stuff as there is no search option and the filter options have less functionality than those of shops. 5) Move items one by one to the drawer (left side of the UI). 6) Press the retrieve drawer button. 7) Realise that you want to change your undersuit and you take it off. 8) Kiosk reset and you need to go through all the steps again. 9) Then when you put on your armor you realise you bought a light armor and not a medium armor so your backpack doesn't fit. 10) Leave the kiosk and walk back to the shop to buy the right armor. 11) Walk back to the kiosk and go through the whole experience again. 12) Then you notice that you forget to move the medpens from the hospital inventory to the station inventory. 13) Walk to the hospital inventory to get the medpens (this still has the 3.23 local inventory). 14) Finally! It's time to leave. Start your ship and request take off. 15) Take off and glitch into the hangar doors as there was desync and the doors weren't open. 16) Find yourself back in the bed and you can start all over again. I expect most players will just give up and go flight suit only most of the time or do a naked run and loot the armor from enemies just to avoid this system. And say you want to prepare your ship because you group up with some buddies and you know most will forget basic stuff. It's no longer possible to prepare personal SCU boxes (they should be nameable or colour coded as you mentioned). The way around this is to go to your freight elevator and retrieve all of the items and the SCU boxes. You then have to manually move each item in a SCU box - not drag and drop but physically move it. A tiny minority may enjoy this but I expect most will not do this.
What a shit system, but this is Tier 0 as everything else in the game, but they need to improve this badly before i even start thinking of installing the game again. They are making the game worse than it already is!
Ok, if I wanted to make inventpry access more immersive, I'd do it in a few ways. At home or in a ship, a proper armory room, where I can get stuff of the walls or hangers. Out in the world, the kiosk should have staal or rooms with lockable doors, most people want privacy while changing. And they don't want to get robbed, which could be with the current system. As for the drawer, it shouldn't be tetris, it should be you asking for a set number of things and they being delivered, maybe in two boxes. We also need different boxes for our gear so that we can recognize it. Comours, forms and logos.
well may be, if the game is stable you can outfit your ship with all the needed stuff and food to do several missions. Together with the new log off system, would indeed help a lot
They have those changing lockers all over the place in game... I kinda think they should have built the gear change stuff in that at the same time they did the storage kiosks. Access loadout at changing station, and outfit there. This provides separation between kitting out, and loading up on supplies from the kiosk. That way they can still apply paper doll for just the outfitting stations, and the physicalized system for the kiosk. Which is the more ideal for each use case.
@@TheNefariousFox Good points. And yeah it's weird that they don't seem to use those stations that are in already. Probably because they don't have the no-weapons zones not ready.
@@ericvandorp Yes, it would be great to be able to outfit your ship for a mission, even ones that take longer than one day. and access it whenver you want.
The magic vending machines are not immersive at all, but beyond that I agree with you. For it to actually be immersive and realistic, you should need to pick things up physically at the store or have them delivered to your hangar/hab/ship/whatever, and then physically put them where you want them...but some random vending machine in some random location magically being able to access all your stuff is not realistic or immersive at all...which was the one and only sole argument for adding them. Calling things up from a central warehouse in your freight elevator makes sense, but doing the same thing through random vending machines all over the place makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever. As stands, all this new system does is add tedium and take away convenience without addressing the concern it was made to address.
I last played over a year ago and Holy moly that was literally the worst inventory I ever saw in a a game. And it's STILL missing the most basic features... Bruh.
@@guynamedmaggi5520 I know man I used to code too. An amateur can do it. And it's not one of those ingorant statements where people underestimate the complexity, it's a no brainer
To be fair, if you compare a Fly By Wire system to the old hydrolic systems of the past, then FBW will feel arcade. How would you anticipate the personal VTOL systems in the future, if it doesn't feel like arcade then they would have done something wrong I feel. So it's a balance between realistic perception and realism (which in 2949 could very well feel like arcade).
I'm still hoping for a realistic space combat sim. I'm thinking fuel would have to be very limited so making a lot of maneuvers in space would get you stranded quite fast. Also the weapons might still need to be less realistic if you want to be able to actually see who you are fighting. I don't think Children of a Dead Earth would be that fun in first person view.
100% my opinion and I played it on evo. While watching your video a Thing came into my mind - atm you even can't try in different clothes armor with some clicks - it takes ages and is No fun. So CIG - bring of back to fun
A lot of SC players seem incapable of being immersed in a game and because they arent able to, they think a game requires more tedium than real life to immerse them. A low rez or voxel game can be immersive AND fun.
Its what I still worry about a lot in Star Citizen -- the flow of a gaming loop and how long it takes to do it. Most of the community only has a few hours a day for some fun.
CIG seems to be making changes to the game that fit their original idea of immersive gameplay... but so far what ends up happening is just adding TEDIUM that doesn't make it feel any more immersive. It just makes the normal preparatory process of everytime you log in take way longer for no real gain. They seem to be forgetting that activities in the game need to actually add to the fun of the game. Making a working system take much more time and actually add nothing to the fun of playing the game, are just bad decisions. Mistake modes, and this new tedious inventory system are just poor additions to what WAS already a fun experience.
this just sounds worse and worse. Is this really what Chris wants to play? What a profoundly boring soul, if so. They keep upping the visuals, while making menus and controls more inscrutable. I left because I wasn't having fun anymore, delivering boxes because I can't dogfight at 15-20 fps, and sightseeing had become stale. Star Citizen has become the most beautiful garden I never want to visit.
I'm pretty sure Chriss is the main reason we have this. He has some problem with everything needing to be manually done. dude forgets this is a game. His little 5m test of the feature looks cool on paper. but is incredibly impractical. I badly wish leadership didn't have the final say in anything regarding this game. Such a huge amount of time was spent on this feature just for it to be more of a annoyance then a feature of immersion. But realistically nothing is scrap worthy. If we can get suit lockers that can quickly swap a entire players gear set with one click. We can load them up before hand and tractor beam them on missions and have a quick way to gear up. Guns should have the same thing. movable weapon racks that have their own storage box where the ammo can be quickly pulled out from using the new loot UI. ALL THIS IS FIXABLE. Its just the fact that every time without miss, we see the lack of proper management in every feature. This stuff CAN and SHOULD have been thought of before even presenting the preview of the feature to the players. Something about how the devs work gets me salty all the time. I know I need a break from CIG and SC. But everything they do has preventable problems that keep surfacing like my dick in the morning. So tired of the bullshit from a $700m+ company.
As Evocati myself I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I like how it felt experiencing this new system at first but overtime it will certainly become more of an annoyance and time sink than I think its worth in immersion. As you put it a revamped Paper doll system with the Item Kiosks being the point of access to your wider stored inventory rather than universally and instantly accessible as is currently in Live would be a better compromise for the FPS inventory. The Freight Elevator Kiosks though for bulk or larger gear and for ship cargo though I think is great, just need some polishing and features to tie it all together, particularly a search function like we have with store kiosks.
What about those outfit changing stations strewn about? If we move from using the kiosk for outfitting, and they apply paper doll to the outfitter closets, then the kiosk system is best for its use case, and we then have the proper gear changing system at an entirely different terminal. I have a feeling somebody may have already been thinking about this? And if they haven't somebody should really try to get that memo to CIG.
I will not watch videos like this. You're giving a review to a patch that is not even out yet for anyone else to judge or gauge how it should play out; you're telling everyone that the EVO build falls short while 99% of everyone else can't judge for themselves because we can't possibly play Evo builds. I thought Evo builds were only for testing focuses and fixing bugs and problems before they're released into the PU. Why has EVO now turned into a review for an upcoming patch? So you're going to review and tell people how much it stinks or how good the patch is solely driven by the fact that it's an EVO build and not helping the problems by reaching out to the spec feedback CH for EVO builds or reporting bugs or problems. No, what we get from you is an early look into a future update and review of a patch because you're a content creator trying to sell the game. What ever happened to the good old days where we could just play a game and have fun? Why must we turn this into a job?
What CIG do in the personal inventory system is like 1. open your store room of personal item 2. Instead of put you gun in your holster or item to you pocket you pack what you want into a box 3. take out the box and close the store room door 4. open the box and do what you should do in step 2 What happened is you access a big magic storage to pack a second small magic storage so you can get your thing after two loading screens and left a empty box, it is just a silly design
Knowing the number of time system are temporary unavailable in SC, I am sure this 4 steps process will always be done and buggy especially when the servers are bad.
As poorly-thought-out as the inventory system is, I think cargo is not much better. Several ships still don't work too well with manual cargo handling, the RAFT, Reclaimer, and Carrack come to mind in particular. I see the appeal of having players engage with the cargo trading and increasing the risk associated with it, but I don't appreciate superficial timesinks. I feel like ships that are _stored_ in a _hangar_ should behave exactly like they do now - as valid instantaneous delivery or sale options; these qualifications would necessarily exclude ships parked on pads or landed at outposts, and would also exclude ships docked to stations or the larger Hull series awaiting cargo transfer (since they can't hold cargo when collapsed and stored). This provides the opportunity for other players to actually engage with those taking part in cargo trading, either helping, attempting to steal, or even pirate other players. However, when a ship is secured away in a hangar, there is no engagement with that ship or its cargo, and putting any delay on that becomes an arbitrary and unnecessary timesink. The automated timers, too, are a False Choice at the moment, thought I want to extend a little faith to the developers - I can see a very reasonable timeframe of 30 seconds PER BOX to an autonomous cargo transfer. This is about what I feel the average solo player in the average situation would take to move a box from ship to elevator or vice versa; sometimes faster, sometimes slower depending on what the ship is, where the cargo is placed, how the ship is landed, etc. What has been communicated from the ETF is that it is instead 30 seconds PER SCU, which is absolutely insane. Finally, with this change, I think there needs to be a handful (at least 2, no more than 4) automated turrets at most (corporate) outposts. These turrets would be special in that they wouldn't simply attack everyone with a crimestat, but would only attack players who recently incurred an armistice violation; they don't care what your legal status is, as long as you're respecting the rules of their space. Necessarily, ground armistice would have to become soft-armistice with the exception of major landing zones, though ideally this armistice would extend to about 4km from ground sites instead of 500m or so.
I completely agree. Jared always emphasizes making the game as immersive and realistic as possible but bring it back to fun and practical. Making the storage access terminals the paper doll system would maintain the current speed of the system while introducing the new storage mechanics. The extra steps are unnecessary and I hope CIG listens to the community here and makes the changes.
I've heard the phrase "they have to listen to the community" With every major mechanic they make now. They just can't get something right the first time, this game is such a bloody timesink to play already and they're making it worse.
This is a great example of how CGI makes the game more burdensome/punitive to play then they have to. From having to physically open every-door you encounter or waiting for a awkward long delays if it's on your ship for it to auto open there are a lot of little annoying things they make you deal with that shouldn't be there. The trade system is broken as well I have had no luck trying to sell my RMC salvage for over a month now. As long as the "No Demand" option exists the game trade system is just designed to be randomly punitive ilo of a system that makes sense like supply and demand with price fluctuation like in the real world, hello. Give me one real world example when construction materials have no value let alone in a time of war and expansion. It's Brexit in Space and just plan stupid to have that in place... just to name a few CGI needs to streamline the BS we deal with. And as far as Death of a Spaceman goes are you fricking kidding me that's all this game consistently delivers right now, my youngest son won't touch the game anymore and calls it Crash Citizen. Snap out of it CGI and get real and deal with the real issues and stop adding more we don't need to deal with.
I totally agree with you the personal inventory was unnecessary. If they enhance the old system by just adding search functionality that would enhance the experience.
No, I fundamentally disagree. Hovering over a station to pickup items is immersion breaking. I like the concept here, it's just been poorly implemented. They can do better!
@@dtrjones you have the right to disagree, I love immersion to the level of practicality, but searching for a needle in a haystack that is not immersion neaither fun!
I had to give up on star citizen, I was a week behind work and I had barely accomplished anything but preparing and dying a bunch of times, when you don't have that many hours to play a game per week, star citizen is just not the game for you is what I've concluded. I just wanted to fly spaceships in a realistic flight engine, but that is not even half of my playtime. It's honestly disrespectful to their players IMO, think of how many million of hours this game wastes among smarter-than-average people, quite a tragic loss really when you think about it. In the week since I stopped playing I have accomplished several real life goals and produced things that bring others enjoyment, don't waste your life to this game, stop before they add toilet mechanics, they don't respect you and they never will
I've been here, this specific way of doing it hasn't been specifically in the plans. A physical inventory has been planned, but what that means hasn't been spelled out explicitly and for good reason. CIG tends not to be specific with their plans because it gives flexibility to change direction if something doesn't work internally.
@@Morphologis the last time I remember CR talking about inventory, he wanted everything physicalized inside the containers they were stored in. Open a closet, and the stuff in the closet is hanging there... (We saw that way back in the Demo on Microtech that also introduced the weather effects from wind, and precipitation, and suffering from the cold without proper equipment.) THAT (IMHO) would be a step too far. I think what I yelled at my monitor at the time was "Please, God, No!" What is being implemented seems like a compromise on what Chris envisioned. I'll wait until I can play with it to see what I think... And yes, Star Citizen it not going to be a game you can just hop onto and go do something without planning and preparation... Groups I play with normally make a plan ahead of time to do something specific. I make it a point of pride to be at the rallying point prior to the appointed time, fully equipped and ready to roll,. and log into the game at the appointed time. I did the same back when I did 40 man raids in WoW. The Demo: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pV5ubC7fRAk.html
Plan and execution are two totally different things, don't get them confused! It's clearly not finished but an interim solution which is odd because the paper doll system was also interim...
Something I was talking about in Spectrum. Not all real-life processes are suitable for a game with mouse and keyboard. If we had VR controller in a VR game, it would be different. The more physical interaction, the better, but only in VR. With mouse and keyboard, it becomes some annoying micro management if the devs are not careful. There is a reason most games don't do that.
Tedium isn’t something we can complain about, considering everything in an MMORPG is made to be tedious. Immersion is tedious. Why fly when you can fast travel? Why heal when we can just be invincible, why worry about crashing your ship when we can make ships indestructible? Why eat & drink when we can remove the hunger system entirely? Why have ship interiors when we can just teleport into the pilot seat? Why have dedicated shops in the city when we can have all the terminals in our apartment when we spawn? Everything about any game is tedious but it objectively makes the game better as a whole whether you like it or not. The new system definitely needs to be refined but the people saying they should’ve left it the way it is, I strongly disagree.
The changes to personal inventory seem like a straight downgrade that doesn't add anything other than frustration. I would love to see a system where we retained the paper doll system, however we expanded that paper doll system to include dolls for ships or vehicles in close proximity. For example, if you were stood in close proximity to the Corsair, or even onboard the Corsair itself - you could drag weapons from the personalised inventory in to one of the weapon slots within the armoury. This way load up would be simple, but you would still retain the physicalised immersive experience of having to go to that weapon rack/suit rack/container to grab that item when you are out in the verse. Thinking further, we already have maps now for every ship in the game. It doesn't seem like it would be enormously difficult to use those same maps as the method of selecting onboard containers to transfer items to.
I disagree with the characterization that it takes more intention. That's no different than the current system. Also, why are you randomly searching instead of using the Filters? Filters are what we use with the current system at your home location anyway. Use the filters. Also, why are you dragging anything into the storage bin? All you have to do is click on multiple items and it will move the ones selected OR you can just hold left shift & then mouse click just like in the old system. The new inventor system, at the character level of equipping, is not drastically different than the current Live build. The only difference is where you can access your inventory and even though it does add a few steps that slow a player down, it only does that by a second or two.
It's clearly not finished though is it, which for me means they should have used the paper doll system when accessing item banks until it was implemented properly.
@@dtrjones That's always their excuse. They've had over a thousand people working on these 2 projects for years now. We shouldn't be at this 'until its implemented properly' stage still. UI and UX are as old as video games themselves; they have a plethora of good and bad designs to learn from. They need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel.
I've been saying this for soo long. This system might work if we didn't have tons of items to move or super tiny backpacks, but we do. Having something like Minecraft and Skyrim just doesn't work because in those games, you can hold literally everything.
Having been able to play a little bit of the last build, three things I'd say would help the new system a lot: 1. Have the drawer be the "local inventory" we're currently used it, but smaller, i.e., ~1scu or so. This would allow you to pull a bunch of items and equip your character, but not holding up a kiosk at the same time. 2. Presaved loadouts. If we were able to save a "loadout" including armor, weapons, consumables, etc, and equip that in one click from the kiosk, that would help as well. The items in the loadout could pull from your inventory, and give some indication if an item in the loadout was unavailable. 3. More ways to store and display items. Two big things that'd be helpful would be weapon racks/crates, and armor stands/containers. Weapon racks could be SCU sized open containers, so you could see what weapons are in it, like the weapons racks on ships. An armor stand is self-explanatory, but a container could be a more compact, SCU multiple container, that could hold a full suit of armor and undersuit. (good example, the MCRN power armor frame and crate from the Expanse) That would allow for the immersive element I think they're going for, but take the tedium and turn it into something a bit more interesting.
Why go to kiosk at all ? Even now in the 21st century I can use a watch, phone, tablet or laptop to just do things. I can even automate things with many sensor variables. It seems there is no thought at all behind this. Heck if I request a ship it should have my kit waiting, if I take a mission my load out should be there ready based on pre selection or even AI support based on current operational data. CIG really need to get out of the office and speak with people.
Fumbling with the inventory just to get geared up is already insanely tedious. Adding extra steps to that is psychopathy levels of insanity. I will not be touching the game until this is sorted out properly with basic common sense QoL features that have been industry standards for a long time such as a functional sort, search, stack and filters. Get real CIG this is a joke!
The UI needs improvement, for sure - but let’s look back to when localized inventory was being introduced. People doomposted a LOT. Given time to adjust, I think this is a step in the right direction - Star Citizen is a slow paced game that’s supposed to reward planning and thorough preparation. All that said - I think this system will be significantly less painful when, like CIC have mentioned, we can log off/log on wherever we left off, and bedlogging is a buff one gets rather than a requirement.
@@jackinthebox301 True enough, but item banks represent a standardization of inventory systems that allow our personal holdings to not just consist of FPS items and components but real cargo that wouldn’t be able to be handled with the old inventory system.
Immersion is achieved through seamless physical interaction, not more menus. At the point where you have to use menus for an interaction, they should be flavorful, but efficient. Maybe someday in the future there will be physical interaction for this stuff, but in the meantime, more menus and bad menus is not the solution. Chris Roberts has never had a clear and succinct idea as to how to handle moving physical items in and out of inventories, and his original design doc ideas for putting items into and out of crates is both overly complicated and insufficiently imaginative.
i completely disagree. it may not be perfect but it is absolutely a step in the right direction. about the only thing it really NEEDS is a search function.
Nah, A search function isn't immersive. Tedium is such an important and realistic part of immersiveness and realism. You SHOULD have to take an appreciable amount of time to find things in game, just as in real life if you have alot in storage you have to spend time to rummage through storage bins. Immersiveness isn't about constant dopamine hits.
@@2drealms196 We already have automated logistical systems today. Not having a feature as basic as a search engine in 930 years would be greatly non-immersive.
I mean I think that a lot citizens are too focused on 'realism' when star citizen is not a realistic game, stuff makes sense in the context of star citizen, not real life, I can list all the stuff that is not realistic and does not make sense in the context of real life, but they make sense in the universe of star citizen. And I have harped on this a lot but I feel the same way for multi crew, a lot of players think its fun, but multi crew is fun in games like void crew, guns of icarus and sea of thieves, where the ship will encounter trouble and you have to deal with said problems, and thus you have the engineering gameplay, the average cargo ship would not be looking to deal with the problems, and for the most part would probably not encounter engineering gameplay, and so if you are a captain you will probably not want to hire crew if you can help it, and if you do, the crew would mostly be sitting around waiting for something to happen, or be doing mind numbing work, which the experience is already in the game, you can crew reclaimers and just stack boxes for hours or you can do jumptown with a group and have the combat be the fun part and then do the mind numbing part of loading the ships.
I understand why this design decision is a headscratcher to many people, but personally i think I'll be much more immersed in the space merc experience if CIG ditches the Barbie Dreamhouse Wardrobe-omatic interface; "paper doll" is an apropos term here.
Funny to see all these people being surprised that CIG does what the concept planned for a decade by now… What were you thinking? They’re making it another call of duty in space?
You havne't watch the video isn't it? What CIG do in the personal inventory system is like 1. open your store room of personal item 2. Instead of put you gun in your holster or item to you pocket you pack what you want into a box 3. take out the box and close the store room door 4. open the box and do what you should do in step 2 What happened is you access a big magic storage to pack a second small magic storage so you can get your thing after two loading screens and left a empty box, it is just a silly design
Seems completely pointless, especially since we're already using a system that is universal across most mmo's. Devs should grow balls and say "No CR... that's a dumb idea."
if they want things to stay first person, avoiding the 3rd person stuff for the current tech, they should just bring back something equivalent to the old mobiglas paperdoll personal gear menu, maybe let us save some gear sets or something, and when we go to the terminal, if that gear is present in the system, it should be available to equip saved outfits and gear sets at the click of a button
I could have told you their ideas for inventory are a waste of time. The majority of mmo gamers will hate this system. I'm looking forward to testing it, but I know it's going to suck and it's just dumbass
Judging by your description of it, I can tell I'm going to hate it. I often times hate when they add a layer to the onion, because it's needless headache and friction in pursuit of complexity
That does seem overcomplicated. And what if I want to stock on armor from npcs? Will I need to load everything the same way to the ship the from ship to station or is that at least more direct and can be dragged into a container?
I think it was completely unneeded to be adding these Kiosks for an extra step of tedium. How long is it going to take till I can have fun in the game from when I log in? When is the fun supposed to start? That time keeps seeming to be taking longer and longer
Star Citizen and CIG not valuing the players time (and money). Name a more iconic duo. The "Game" is more and more just a tech demo showcasing what it technically possible without focusing on actually entertaining and fun experiences. Such changes might be cool the first few times you use it, but after the 10th time just become tedious, boring and annoying. The developers seem to forget that, after all, Star Citizen is still supposed to be a GAME, not a second life. Just because it's immersive doesn't make it fun. Next up, you have to pee and poop, to prep a meal you have to spend hours to cut all the ingredients etc. and if you don't have sex ingame, you won't be able to respawn anymore? (last point likely is the dream of some degens)
What if: your avatar is shown on the terminal screen as with the paper doll system. You select, match and assign to slots as you would now in the inventory. Than you press a finish button and there’s a short animation where the character takes things from the locker and puts everything on. Excellent idea?! The advantage is they can more or less copy the Inventory interface, stick it on the terminal and only have to make a few standard animations, bam work done and immersion maxed! Disclaimer: I haven’t played Evocati and I’m not a programmer.
From a gameplay perspective, it makes sense because landing zones are safe houses. Once base building is implemented, the inventories there will not be managed through freight elevators, but instead, they might persist or be kept inside boxes.
I think the thing they could would be to have a paper-doll preview directly on the kiosk screen where u put together the outfit you want. When ur done you click 'dispense' or whatever and the kiosk gives u a box that u can interact with like any other box. U could then directly equip the boxed outfit or carry it to a locker and "slot" it into that locker for later use or even store it as a ready outfit inside containers to quickly and easily outfit your org in the field
this is a great idea, I'd just add one more 'equip' button that just equips the dang thing instantly for the 90% of the times you're outfitting. I like the dispense to a box idea too a lot though. dispense pre-made/ready made outfits to boxes that you can slot in your ships vehicles or lockers or whatever and just 'use' the box to equip it all whenever or wherever you have the box. or even a 'send to ship' or 'send to cargo' button to send it to your cargo hanger! with options to send multiple premade outfit boxes at once! I can imagine this being an improvement in QoL rather than a step back. to anyone doubting, just imagine if we were selecting ships by pressing 'o' on your kb and dragging a ship to a pad (lol)
The kiosk should add a search bar to the inventory, making inventoy easier to sift through. Hopefully i can just double click on the drawer items to equip them, as well as open the minimal loot screen we just got to move items to a backpack and pockets
I don't know how many hours i playsled SC, but it must be around 500 now. I quit playing SC since MM was introduced. I gave it a chance for a month, but I don't enjoy flying anymore. I was always a bad pilot, now game is even more complicated in this manner. I'll give another chance after 3.24, but judging what people who played EVO are saying I'll give SC a pass for a year. I intend to wach news and check game out from time to time changes, but if devs don't make changes I don't think I'll be going back.
