It's likely too late, but I would've preferred you didn't include what happened to her, but rather include just the episodes she featured in. Kinda spoils it. Kind of a weak argument, I know. But every little but helps IMO.
@@sergioaccioly5219 Because she's in two episodes I felt there's no point in mentioning it, as there is still a chance to be surprised as to precisely _when_ and _how._ IMO there's little sense in blatantly sharing that information, given when one is in the moment viewing things like that can often be easily forgotten. Ultimately, I'm just saying, why telegraph the info unnecessarily? 🤷🏼♂️
Yep, that's the correct TNG episode you're thinking of, and yes, that was Robert Duncan McNeill in that episode--who also did play Tom Paris. The setup for this entire season and the payoff next episode is so well done, and I'm so excited for you to be at the threshold of experiencing it. Loved this episode; loved this entire season. Also, it genuinely made my day to hear that you're going to be diving into Star Trek: Prodigy. If you thought 'Lower Decks' was a love letter to Trekkies, boy howdy--buckle up. I cannot wait to go on that ride with you as S2 prepares to drop next week. Knowing you, I have a feeling it's going to land really well for you.
So LD is kinda responsible for a massively disproportionate number of my top tier Star Trek moments and Mariner's actions here are right up there. Specifically the *instant* she's gotten past her trauma (which, btw, fantastically delivered over four seasons!) she does everything right. Makes friends with a Klingon just by telling him they are, turns down the opportunity to kick a problem in the face in favour of talking, convinces a group of vastly different people / species into an alliance and has a plan to get them out of there all while casually speaking Bynar. Though gotta love her just casually leaning smugly on Tendi's shoulder when our favourite mistress... uh, okay, that sounds wrong, moving on... turns up to make her fellow Orion's bend the knee, just because she's super-competent doesn't mean she's not still Mariner! The thought of her in the centre chair of something like a Lunar-class ship should be enough to make a lot of troublemakers very, very nervous! Oh and on the Star Wars references the little bunker with the fruit trees looks a hell of a lot like a certain Endor-based shield generator bunker... just saying.
The amount of trauma mariner endured is huge! She is a Starfleet child getting into the academy as soon as possible so when she was 17 to 20 max. She knew Sito a bajoran ensign who was asked to accompany a cardasian double agent so he could present her when asked what he was doing while he was away. She basically gift wrapped herself to become a cardasian POW in a workcamp. Many speculated that Mariner grew up on Enterprise. So the man she drew pictures for at Picard day was the one under whom her friend sacrificed herself to the greater good.
Picard manipulated Sito into accepting that mission, playing on her guilt from the Academy incident. He knew what he was doing, too, and did not like it, but imhe felt it necessary.
8:48 Rutherford is suprised to discover the uniforms have pockets - this is likely a reference to when Patrick Stewart spoke about how his fellow TNG cast members did not know what to do with their hands while acting, the uniforms having no pockets to put them in. Whereas he, being a Shakespearian stage actor used to period costumes, did know what to do with them - you do nothing with them.
Quick note, since they don't really bring it up further to date, but not only was there the thing with Ensign Sito while Mariner was likely still in the Academy, but Mariner seems to have gone pretty much straight from the Academy to the Dominion War on DS9. Makes sense given how strapped for competent crew and material Star Fleet was for the Dominion War. And even more so than fighting the Borg the Dominion War was a meat grinder. The Cardassians (before the end) and Jem'Hadar were both ferocious fighters.
I can't believe I forgot that Locarno's logo (or whatever) is the physical representation of the Kolvoord Starburst...the thing he tried to do that killed that ensign in "The First Duty".
You are correct, sir. There was a theory that Nick Locarno was a name assumed by Tom Paris so he wouldn't get special treatment because his father was a Starfleet admiral. This will probably solidify that they are two different people (who happen to look alike) but have similar back stories. On the other hand maybe there's a twist - if they hadn't laready split Boimler.....
You’re correct about the episode from TNG it was season 5x19 titled the first duty and as stated saw Wesley and his friends who were at the top of their class get in trouble after an accident from performing a banned space acrobatic maneuver. This storyline was picked up later in the series in season 7x15 lower decks. The inspiration for this show. It details what Mariner mentioned about her friend working for her second chance on the Enterprise and dying in a mission. I highly recommend you watch both to appreciate the season finale
Save LD indeed. That series struggled a bit in the first episodes, but soon found its balance and got better with every season. We have to many fun characters, main and side, heck I even like Ransom. "I´m sure you would have tried" T`Lyn being herself as usual, not holding back just because of logic. And Ma'ah is again one of the great characters of the series, such a nice reward to have him back and hopefully in the future as well. And Mariner finally got to the core of her troubles thanks to him...I call this episode another win for the lower deckers!
I've been so excited for you to get to the two-part finale, especially this episode. You've been theorizing about Mariner and why she doesn't want a promotion all season, and now you know why. Fans have been guessing that Mariner was involved in the Dominion War for years, since an early episode had her say she was stationed at DS9 around the time it happened. It turns out that was correct and was a major factor, but the true reveal was her connection to Sito Jaxa. Sita was a member of Nova Squad from the ST:TNG Season 5 episode "The First Duty", which did indeed focus on Wesley and Nick, but Sito was part of Nova Squad and faced punishment the same as Wesley. But Sito is much more well known for the Season 7 episode "Lower Decks" (the inspiration for not only this series but the "lower-decks" styled episodes in general), where her past was brought up and how she overcame all the obstacles in her way, only for it to end tragically with her death. So in a way, Mariner's story and this very series relate all the way back to the original Lower Decks.
And here it is at last, the big Mariner reveal. We’ve been getting hints of this since Season One, when we saw a flashback of Mariner in a Dominion War era uniform. We know that she’s a few years older than the rest of beta shift (T’lyn excluded on grounds of “Vulcan”), and this episode actually goes a long way to telling us how old she is: somewhere in her early to mid 30s, at least 30 at the start of the show and at most 32. We know that her first year of the Academy was 2368, which presumably means that she was born at some point in the late 2340s, and the most recent stardate that we have received was Stardate 58943.9, which translates to December 8, 2381 (side note: since the first stardate we are given is 57436.2, that means that the entire show has taken place over the course of about 18 or 19 months in universe). Moreover we know that she served on DS9 between 2372 and 2375, because she mentions having served there while Worf was there. The earliest that she could have arrived on the Cerritos is 2379, because she was on board the Quito in 2379, and she has had one as of yet unrevealed posting aside from DS9, the Quito, and the Atlantis. Mariner is at most 35, which does make her the oldest non-Vulcan member of beta shift.
One thing I love about this episode is that Sito was a spy. Klingons wouldn't typically respect that at all but this guy called her a warrior because she died trying to protect what she cared about. He also tells Beckett to study her plants because that's what she wants to do. Her passion for it makes it honorable in his eyes even if he doesn't quite understand starfleet's interest in research.
Minor spoiler for something that doesn't happen in next episode, I was really hoping Boimler would get some one on one time with M'aah and get some confidence from the encounter, since M'aah was the Boimler of his ship.
Looks like paramount + is posting full episodes of lower decks on RU-vid to gauge interest in the show. Everyone should go over there and watch and like and comment and all that so we can #savelowerdecks
Good morning, @WarpReactor and friends! ☕ I have been waiting for your reviews of this 2 part season 4 finale. Yes, Sito Jaxa was part of the Colvert Starburst disaster and had to struggle through her pregraduation reprimand to redeem herself in the TNG episode, "Lower Decks"....from which this series concept and name were derived. Mariner has a very specific type of PTSD referred to as Survivor Guilt. People suffering this version of the traumatic injury that is PTSD have the idea that they have no right to remain alive when someone else died. It is not quite being suicidal, but they often have very little regard for their own saftey and sometimes feel they need to live a more risky life...perhaps to eventually die in such a way as to honor the person who's death traumatized them. Sito died a hero. Beckett feels she needs to as well. This episode title, "The Inner Fight" is a twist on the title of, in my opinion, the best TNG episode, "The Inner Light," although there is really no other connection between the 2 episodes. Well, perhaps this is my favorite TNG episode is because I love Margot Rose who plays opposite Sir Patrick. I want to say more but there is more to come in part 2, so I will only say that in part 2 a certain movie has a heavy influence in the story. Yes, Robert Duncan McNeill plays both Tom Parris and Nick Locarno. Until the last installment before s5 premiers, LLAP & Vulc'n'Roll everyone! 🖖🤘
Another point of view: What if we discover that Mariner doesn't really work in Star Fleet - that was a path that was nearly chosen for her by her upbringing. Given her ability to connect with others, she would make an awesome diplomat.
This episode was a turning point for Mariner. She may not have opened up to her friends but she's taken her steps towards healing and I just hope she carries on with that path in the next season
"Tom Paris" was actually supposed to be "Nick Locarno," but I understand they would have had to pay the writer royalties, so they just changed the name and kept Robert McNeill.
I know that's the common knowledge about the reason why Tom Paris exists, but I don't think it's ever been confirmed by anyone that worked on either show.
Nah, Locarno's character was created in the writer's room, they wouldn't have needed to pay royalties, that's a bit of a myth. They just thought the character went too far to be a main.
@@brucechmiel7964 They tweaked the backstory slightly for Paris to be less bad. Paris didn't disobey regulations, the shuttle accident was just an accident, and he ultimately came forward himself.
Nick Locarno used to be Tom Paris but the producers didn't wanna pay royalties to the author of "The First Duty" over the span of the Voyager series. So they chickened out and created our favorite Captain Proton fanboy, Lt. Tomas Eugene Paris.
Yeah, Tom Paris (Robert Duncan McNeill) also played Nick Lacarno. Fun trivia fact, Tom Paris was based on Nick Lacarno, and eventually brought in Robert to play the role. The only reason they didn't actually use Nick as a character is because Paramount wound have had to pay additional royalties to the writers of "First Duty" for every episode Nick would have been in.
I don't think that's the only reason. The other reason I've heard (and it's the reason on Memory Alpha) is that the Voyager creative team felt that Locarno was irredeemable - hence Tom Paris's similar backstory had him coming forward and admitting his crime, rather than covering it up as Locarno did.
This episode made me cry. The death of spoilers in next generation is such a call back because the episode she dies in is actually titled lower decks and is possibly the single darkest episode to me from that series it was crushingly sad
Word of advice go back to Star Trek. The next generation watch two particular episodes one known as the first duty in the second has a familiar title to it lower decks. You won’t see our miss mariner, but you will see the plot will unfold in front of you
It's only fitting that Beckett, a traumatized war veteran, would receive the help she needed from a "warrior therapist" in the form of Ma'ah. Because the death of Sito Jaxa, compounded by her being thrust into the Dominion War, was just too much for her. It's only now that someone finally heard and understood her.
As for the Tom Paris, Nicola Lacarno connection when making Star Trek Voyager they wanted to give Nick a redemption ark at times Paramount was too cheap to pay the creator of the character royalties for the character so they came up with Tom basically the same character if Tom did not have a redemption ark
I'm happy to hear that you are going to watch Prodigy. However, Prodigy would be so very much more impactful if you started watching Voyager first & getting into some of those characters. I mean, Prodigy is enjoyable regardless. I'm just sayin' maybe have a think on it. \_0_/ I texted that last sentence with a shrug. Lol
I felt the exact same way but then one of my buddies convinced me to go ahead (strangely enough I've read some of the novels with Voyager characters but haven't watched the show). I imagine it will be a lot like Lower Decks where I 'reverse engineer' a lot of reveals but I'm ok with that :) Thank you so much for looking out, my friend!
"It's been a long road, getting from there to here. It's been a long time, but my time has finally here. I can see my dream come alive at last." Yes, yes, I know a lot of y'all hate this song, but I'm one of the few who does like it; this song helped me through both mid and high school. So, all y'all "Faith of the heart" hatter out there, "If you don't have anything nice (or neutral) to say, don't say anything." A.K.A. As Lt. Commander/Councilor Deanna Troy sad to a hologram of herself that one time, "@$#%M*(&%U@$#%Z*&#^Z@#%$L*&^%E#*^) IT." Warp Reactor you are thinking of Star Trek TNG season 5 episode 19. TNG season 7 episode 15 is referenced in this episode of Star Trek Lower Decks.
To be fair to Nick, if Mariner is meant to be around 30, and Nick was her upperclassman (she was friends with Sito at the academy) that puts him around his mid-30s. So he looks about right for a stressed-out, obsessed 35yo.
Did anyone else feel like Boimler was acting more wimpy than usual this episode? Like he's always a little wimpy but he just felt a bit more like his season one self at times. It honestly had me suspicious for a while that he'd somehow been replaced by William as part of some scheme. That would've been an interesting twist
i think you're right about mariner being suicidal. it would have taken like a minute to put on the anti-venom suit so that was beyond reckless. i think that locarno thing is that the actor who played paris played a second character with literally the exact same back story as paris (and ya they pulled off a reckless stunt for no reason and someone died) and the same face. it was a weird decision becaues why wasn't paris just locarno, why create paris at all?
I thought Paris's accident was regular pilot error during a mission instead of a dangerous stunt? I think he mentions in one episode that the accident probably wouldn't have even hurt his career that much, but he tried to fake the cause of the crash, and that's what ruined his career.
@@wendyheatherwood oh, to be honest i wasn't that into voyager, my interest was mostly tng and ds9 and after that it dropped off until lower decks. now paris being a seperate character makes sense becase the writers must have decided making a main character basically be a murderer was too much and toned it down
@@wendyheatherwood To bring the character back, they needed a back story that wasn't quite so criminal so it was more believable that he could still be in Starfleet. It was kind of a hand-wave act. I think they could have used nepotism (his father as an admiral) as the reason he managed to stay in Starfleet without retconning a back story for essentially the same chracter.
isn't sito the ensign that died in the tng episode titled 'lower decks", and not just murdered but captured, interogated and tortured. that episode is the concept that this entire series was born out of and it is an amazing tng episode and probably one of my top 10 easily. it actually involves some amazing character growth for Worf, who kind of like mariner punished himself after sito's death instead of processing it in a healthy way. he grew with the help of the other ensigns who are our proxies for boimler, tendee and rutherford and are esentially our main cast of that actual episode
@@Drakoni23 No it isn't. Sito was never captured, interrogated and tortured, and robpetrie6486 is a dick for posting spoilers, even if he doesn't know what he's talking about.
What? Wait: I thought I remembered the TNG episode "Lower Decks" pretty well. I remember that Sito did not survive; I do NOT remember the 'captured, interrogated and tortured' part. I don't think the episode asserts that. It's possible that a subsequent Trek storyline, that I don't know about, added additional details; I'll allow for that. (Also, I'll grant that just because we didn't see it, doesn't mean that something nasty didn't happen. )
