Star Trek Mythconceptions: The Kirk-era Deflector Dish 

Me too.

They never were canon. They were printed because the hunger for Trek mech had spiked, and these were artists, not scientists, so sensor, deflectors, shields, screens, "time warp"... non of it was in concrete. That's why the standard is, if it isn't stated on screen, it's not canon. Even if it come from Roddenberry himself, there simply are too many contradictions and blatantly false things out there (huge rubber duck on the Enterprise D).

@@Jack_Stafford Deflectors and shields are clearly marked in the post motion picture era displays and are visible clearly as such a lot of those displays were based on text books of the time so some things ended up canonised by the back door like single Nacelle ships for example. (which are now pretty common on the current TV shows)

You are correct in the design of the "antenna". Besides, the official Star Trek Blueprints for the NCC 1701 show it as a navigational deflector dish. This video is just off. It's trying to show evidence of newer stuff that deviated from "canon" if you could call TOS that. This is definitely a fixed dish for a reason - to create a field to "deflect" debris from the ship's forward course. They don't even discuss those nodes in most of the things I've seen.

phased array antennas

@@esecallum Where are they?

@@robertstephens1203 inside the hull. in the same way a f-16 or f-35 etc has a phased array in the nose for radar etc.

@@esecallum The skin of an airplane is very thin. A starship's skin is quite thick and, I would imagine, would attenuate the signal quite a bit. It's an interesting idea though.

I think that is one of the main reason the system is seen as an "active" device if it had been stuck on the top somewhere on a gimble like the Millennium Falcon or rear facing I think everyone would have presumed it was just a subspace antennae. I think the best thing to have done is see what the designer and model creators thought the parts were for. and that seems to be subject to change (i.e. the nacelle caps on the back covering up what looked like exhausts) They obviously knew even that early that the engines nacelles didn't work that way so made that change. To be honest I am not that bothered some elements are to be honest best ignored of retconned anyway. 7 some newer info is pretty cool anyway (real space restoration fins being one of my personal favorite retcons)

Roddenberry couldn't make up his mind on what is cannon. At one convention, he stated that the animated series was cannon. A year later he changed his mind.

you can look at the tecnical manuals. mr scotts guide to the enterprise and the TOS tecnical manual both call them sensor dish's and before you tell me those books are not cannon, they referenced by mike okuda who is literally the technical librarian of burman era startrek as far as im concerned they are more cannon than anything else available.

This is why we only can accept things shown/described on film as canon. In TNG, yes, delfector arrays became a thing. That doesn't make everything before that , especially an obvious physical, non glowing dish, to also be a magically space deflector. Those same books had a Dreadnought with a dish facing backwards, but they never address that lol All of that stuff is great to read as a kid Trekkie, but as an adult to honestly try to assign a "real world" function for every bump and stylistic flourish is just silly. In the 60s, that's what satellite dishes looked like. So logic suggests... No deflector dish. Until a much later Enterprise needed one for a plot and the concept was invented.

​@@Jack_StaffordSensor Array.

The explanation that I've seen and which rings true for me is that it's because they're Commodores. Other than Captain Stacy, which seems to be a costuming goof, the alternate chest insignia seems reserved for Commodores possibly operating as fleet or starbase commanders?

@@gabrielvampyre As a fan of Starcom I would like to suggest they are division logos as in that franchise they have people interacting from 3 sub-divisions each with their own suit colours and logos but they are all in Starcom... maybe one can analogise Macos to some degree too. Again later content muddied the waters by using or not using certain logos on a whlm too (see ST Enterprise)

That is pretty much how it is shown that both components exist in the same location. Sort of like how we were forced to consider Klingon ships have the Deflector in the Torpedo launcher. Though if you want to be heretical about it one could make an argument that the leading wing edges of a D7 are the deflectors emittors and perhaps that is also partially true of the USS Discovery too. (if you want to say the dish is a com array or sensor system instead) this argument has the advantage of making excuses for any design that lacks a visible dish like the Miranda Class or Constellation class or Centaur type for example. There is so much to argue about like where the hell are the weapons on the canon Steamrunner class ?

You are so right. The Insignia of the USS Enterprise TOS era was the Warp Field arch that went on to be universal for Star Trek in TNG and so on, Actually being back written in the movies, but TOS all commands, especially the ships in Star fleet all had their own insignia's. There was also Capt. Tracy, the Commadore on the Lexington in the M5 Episode, ECT.

@@stltrekmodels.4157 I had a look at that one too but I think it was a Commodore insignia as it looks the same as the one Mendez wears.

Yea, they did alot of things on the fly, and were winging it. Gene didn't have every single detail figured out, and was bad about not wanting to be confused with facts. They were just making a Si Fi TV show. That is what put food on the table, and paid the rent. Also they did not know that the Nerd World was going to explode.@@danielyeshe

They also acknowledged it and canonized it in “In A Mirror Darkly”. Take a look at Defiant’s uniforms.

I like Samuel, but he will often state these things as fact when they are from his artistic experience, not from Trek Canon. The TOS ship shot phasers from varying places, but usually what is called the "planetary sensor dome" on the bottom, but again, it isn't called that ANYWHERE on Trek. Only in non canon books or game supplementals. Unless people think that the scientists in that dome were also loading up photo torpedoes and the phaser banks, sometimes it's okay, and BETTER to just say "it's never been established" and let it go. The TMP Enterprise clearly did have dedicated turrets and torpedo bays, because it mattered to the plot. Everything else is just conjecture, and yours is just as valuable as anyone else's. If it isn't specifically stated and demonstrated on screen (like a shuttle or a phaser), then everything else is non canon speculation. Trust the shows, and trust your eyes, not guides for games that NEEDED to have stats to play the game or someone on RU-vid who states things with authority, they are just guessing or making things fit their own head canon. If it's not on screen, it's not canon.

@@Jack_Stafford It doesn't help that TOS remastered added Phasers being shot from places the ship did not shoot from originally.

It’s a deflector otherwise the saucer would never navigate.😊

TNG Technical Manual isn't canon. It's just supplementary info for entertainment. Many, many things are blatantly wrong in those books. If it's not on screen and shown operating, then it is conjecture and non canon.

@@Jack_Stafford . The ST:TNG TM is written from the perspective of the 24th century, where TNG is set; it also contains a wealth of behind-the-scenes trivia distinguishable from the technical content. The work is considered by Paramount to be canon in many respects, although some elements first published in the manual have not yet made it onto screen. The book itself claims that elements of it may be false or misleading in order to mislead "threat" forces.

I don't think the Saucer even has a deflector dish AT all, as it isn't a warp capable vessel alone and so doesn't need one. If it needs to protect it's hull it will have to make do with the structural integrity fields, inertial dampeners, the use of diffuse phasers and shields. and those weird anti-matter launchers it used like once. One would presume some sort of tractor beam system is also contained on it too in a non-visible place if only so it doesn't have to reply entirely on the shuttle bay ones. If I learned anything from watching Voyager & Enterprise it is that Star Ships can spit stuff out of any orifice they care too. Such as Excelsior class ships iffy location of it's Torpedo launchers and them being confused with it's work bee garages. just as Voyagers after Torpedo launcher was confused with its tractor beam emitters and work bee garages too. Heck people are still arguing about the TOS Enterprise and escape pods even now.

The bussard collectors are the front part of the warp nacelles. Minus the refit (TMP) era, those are front red things of the nacelles.

It's explained in this video...

I think the dish itself is also part of the ship's FTL sensors too. where as on the Enterprise D they are located around the ship as a line of separation (usually they are black or blue). But the franchise is quite contradictory at times.. I bet a lot of people didn't think Photon Torpedos were physical objects until they showed the torpedo casings.

Negative. Styles said it would be painted "like a giant bird of prey." Given that Enterprise later established a Klingon Bird of Prey in Archer's time, Styles may have been referring to a Klingon Bird of Prey when he said that. ;)

For years in fanon the "Emperor's Flagship" was referred to as a "Warbird." Then Star Trek III happened and for some reason it started getting called a "Bird of Prey." Then the D'deridex class came along and stole the common name of "Warbird."

So because a crewman used a description of what it might look like, that makes it an official name? Didn't Dr McCoy one time refer to Vulcan's as "Green Blooded Devils"? Does that make it official, after all he IS a doctor. If it's not said on film, then it isn't canon. And just because a character makes an opinion, like a ship is a garbage scow, it doesn't immediately and officially make that class of ship the "Garbage Scow" class.

The blueprints aren't canon, and have many discrepancies from the book to the show , the show being actual canon. They were printed up to sell at conventions because Trek had a huge surge in popularity and there was very little merch. He was a talented designer, but what he jotted on a drawing does not qualify it as canon.

Indeed, and always in the plural.

Ok, so here's where I'm wrong. Spock did say "Deflectors" but one beam was shown coming from the center.

That was an earlier video.

@@DarinRWagner probably should have put a "if you want to know what it really is click here!" at the end of this video.😆

Well I did specifically say "model kit PACKAGING." When it comes to the USS Grissom, I not only provided model kit evidence but I also provided actual evidence from the on-screen model. So I'm confident everything is okay.

On can also have fun pointing out that a lot of old folks from the old day have a VERY annoying habit of calling the Enterprise Primary hull a dish too. Fortunately that is an off screen annoyance.

About as High as Star Wars having Dogs, Chickens, Hot Chocolate and Hell (which for some reason it does)

@@90lancaster uh nooooooo! There's stuff you can bring with you, when humans populate a planet, but Romulan "Bird of Prey" requires parallel evolution of birds on two separate planets.

That is TNG side canon. Never was a thing in TOS. LOOSE TOS beta canon established that the 3 lights on the front of the dish (a logical place) were some kind of debris deflector. Before TNG, the dish always was referred as a communications/sensor array.

@@Jack_Stafford Well my friends and I knew that back in the early 1970's but I believe it's because we read (and re-read) the two classic TOS books - "The World of Star Trek" and "The Making of Star Trek". Thats' probably where we learned it from.

Among other things...

@@DarinRWagner Let me say I’ve only watched two videos but love the content, esp. as someone who was into the 1980’s FASA RPG, seeing them “come to life” is thrilling to see!

Actually, that episode supports this video, since Spock calls for "deflectors" plural to be used on the asteroid. In the original effects, there were no visible beams seen. Later, when the remastered effects were added, a beam was included in the shots, but it's unclear where exactly it came from (one of the actual navigational deflectors or the dish).

He never said he wasn't

That's the Salty-Trekker. Be sure to check out his channel for more of his stupid gaffs.

L0LZ 😁

O berths are not warships. You don’t expect hospital ships and research vessels to go into battle.

@@WUZLE That's the joke. /Rainier Wolfcastle Also my favorite Starship, so it's okay for me to tease them. Some of my best friends are Oberth class.

Lots of evidence in shows and games. One could argue that games don't count because they're not made by the people who made the shows, but it still goes to show that even the people who made the games think those areas are the "deflector dish".

Those posters are beautiful pieces of art, but are definitely not canon and have many, many discrepancies to the shows, films and even other sources. Even the entire engineering deck has moved from the saucer to the secondary hull, depending on what "official (but non canon) licensed" book you look at.

I covered this in the next video.

@DarinRWagner I will check it out.

The Star Trek 25th Anniversary reprint of the Starfleet Technical Manual (yes most likely all non-canonical) list the Class I "Constitution" Heavy Cruiser "dish" as the "Main Sensor". Under the saucer was listed the "Sensor Array T/B". No description of their function or any listing of the Navigation functions are listed. The Class I "Saladin" Destroyer is similarly tagged as the "dish" hanging below the saucer as being Main Sensor, with the "Sensor Array T/B" mounted above the bridge. Likewise with the "Main Sensor" and "Sensor Array T/B" on the Class I "Hermes" Scout, and the Class I "Ptolemy" Transport/Tug. Only on the Class I "Federation" Dreadnought is there more descriptive tagging found. On that ship, it sports a "Main Sensor F/A", the F/A being forward and aft as the ship does have 2. The shuttle bay is above the forward "Main Sensor" and the "Sensor Array T/B" is once more over the bridge. On the front profile of the ship, they list 2 smaller "dish" as the "Navigational Deflector" (Port Side) and the "Tractor Beam" (Starboard) on either side of the "Main Sensor." This would back up the assertion that the large "dish" is not a Navigational deflector, but instead has a sensory function. Like with all things in an era that was more concerned with telling a fun space based yarn in a fictional future, there was not as much emphasis on the technical side of things or at least a consistency that we expect from shows today. They of course tried to, but there were other concerns like staying on the air to be worried about. Debate is always good as long as one keeps an open mind, have the sources and can on the preponderance state why their view is correct. The people making Trek have made many many errors that other people (authors, game makers, TV and Films) have tried to correct, explain, or make disappear. Never lose sight of the fun there is with Trek.

Wagner believes, and I agree with them, that it is because he's a Commodore. The normal crew of the ship he was on would have the delta badge. Having said that, ST is bad about uniforms and rank and how the Navy operates. TOS was a little better about it. One big thing that's missing is that when they are on a planet they never have covers (hats). 🙂

The JAG office had a very different version of the Delta logo too not to mention the one on the pennants doesn't match the ones on their chests either.

@@90lancaster "The JAG office had a very different version of the Delta logo too" Couldn't that be their specialty, though. For example, Wagner and I were submariners. Enlisted wears "silver dolphins" and officers wear "gold dolphins" once you become "Qualified in Submarines". So maybe the badge is a delta if you are on a ship, the commodore logo if you are a commodore, the JAG logo if you're in JAG, etc. Also in the episode The Tholian Web the Intrepid has a delta, just like the Enterprise. I think the combination of that and the internal memo saying that all ships use the delta insignia should settle any debate about if the delta is specific to the Enterprise. 🙂

@@neutrino78x Well in that case some people have suggested the JAG logo was the actual Starfleet logo and the Enterprise version was a ship services spin on it. which is why they Jag service logo *on the wall* is the same as the one on the Enterprise's pennant which in turn is not identical to the uniform one. I suppose if one was throwing Retcons around then using one of the various Federation logos as a ship logo wouldn't look to bad. Of course if one looks at the complete redesigns of combadges in later times that causes some confusion too but at least it retains the delta shape mostly the same. I think we pretty much have to accept the Delta ./ Arrow head shape as intended to be the Starfleet logo now though due to so much recent material showing it being that even in the past settings (like Discovery). I do kinda dig the patches they had on their NX-01 uniforms i Enterprise though so I guess something like that on a Landing party jacket would have been nice to have.

Where in any of the films was it referred to as a deflector ? In battle, they did call for deflector screens, defense fields as well as shields, though.

No, he said you an identify a Romulan ship because "they are painted like a giant bird of prey". But they are not called "bird of prey" ships in the episode; just a Romulan ship.

Most likely, the team at CBS Digital who did the remastered effects were working under the mistaken assumption that the dish on the 1701 was supposed to be a navigational deflector dish and so they designed the effect accordingly. Dialogue from Spock supports this effect as an error since he repeatedly refers to "deflectors" plural, rather than the singular.

Look up Captain John P. Cromwell. Those were his last words (paraphrased). There's a hall at Groton named after him.