WELL.... this was unexpected but deeply DEEPLY appreciated. Granted, I could listen to you guys talk at length about stuff you absolutely adore for hours on end (Which I absolutely have done) and am elated at more stuff from Val Verde. Hope the crew AND the fans of Val Verde know how awesome and appreciated they are
'Star Trek VI' was the first one I saw in the cinema and the zero-g blood effect was amazing. When Christopher Plummer popped up in the credits, my mom got excited lol! Also, the "I'd give real money if he'd shut up" line got a big laugh from the audience. Also, it would have been interesting with Saavik because the whole theme is about testing beliefs and loyalties, so having an established character turn on us would have worked.
I agree Saavik would have worked a lot better. Having the one new character on the Enterprise in Valeris be a traitor is far to obvious when having an established character turn out to be behind it would have had more impact. Given she was with him when he died, having Saavik wanting to 'avenge David Marcus' would have been a good contrast to Kirk's actions/views.
Another MCoy scene i love in 5 is that when Kirk and Spock are on the floor after God got annoyed with their questions. He stands there as only McCoy can and we get. 'I doubt any god that causes pain and suffering'
TMP - An awkward transition between OG 'Star Trek' and what was to follow. Like a theme park ride - a great light show, but that's it. TWOK - Clearly the best film. Takes a straight-forward concept (revenge/bad guy with a superweapon) and makes it work brilliantly in a ST universe. Ricardo Montalban is a God-tier villain and the tension is unbearable. Not to mention the themes of life/death/age which add to an already great film. Also - James Horner delivering his greatest work IMO. TSFS - The odd-numbered Trek curse should have ended here. Picks up the momentum of II and runs with it. And, unlike more recent Hollywood films (and 'Into Darkness' especially), the resurrection of a character requires tremendous sacrifice and effort. Plus - the 'stealing the Enterprise' sequence is monumental. TVH - A welcome change in tone and a good, fun time at the movies! Also has a great Trek premise, which you just go with - a probe that wants to talk to whales or destroy Earth lol. The fish-out-of-water story makes this always enjoyable. TFF - Not terrible, despite the stink around it. Again, the premise of a dangerous entity causing trouble is very Trek but the film just feels cheap in all aspects. However, we do get a lot of Kirk, Spock and Bones together in this which makes all the difference. TUC - Taking Chernobyl and The Berlin Wall and putting it into ST makes for a fantastic story. The direction is tight, there's tension, humour, great character moments and the score is so unsettling that it gets you on edge from the opening credits. As for the TNG films, you could put 'First Contact' into the discussion (I think it's great) but the others can be left behind ('Insurrection' has things going for it though).
I love ST V. Forget the special effects, it's like a tv episode with bigger budget and the character moments are generally superb. The excellent 2nd run of DC original crew Star Trek comics picked up from V so the look of the comics and the humour was very much in the same vein. Very underrated movie.
Another great discussion guys, loved hearing all your options about Star Trek, my personal favourite of these films are The Voyage Home and The Undiscovered Country and l really like more franchise talk. 👍
I like The Motion Picture a lot. It's my favourite of the films. I realise that some of the others are more 'entertaining' but I like the tone and simplicity of TMP.
Great subject guys. Also I would agree about starting with Wrath of Khan. It's easily the most accessible for non-fans because the revenge plot requires no prior knowledge of the series, even though it is based on an old episode.
I agree with you guys I love all 6 of the original Trek movies, and while Wrath of Khan is technically the best Voyage Home is my favorite of the series. You guys mentioned Sulu's sexy jacket but you forgot about Chekov's candy land outfit from 3, best costume. Live long and prosper 🖖
The films are how I mostly experienced ST growing up though I did watch TNG a lot when it was on BBC2 during the 90s. Obviously TWOK was the one that got me hooked. My Dad recorded it, but for some reason the recording started 10 minutes or so into the tape..... which meant my 6 year-old self would have to sit through deafening static until TWOK came on lol! The things you remember eh?. Lots of Sunday afternoons spent making Enterprise and Reliant out of a bucket of Lego for instance.
With the Great Barrier issue, it would have been interesting if ships could pass through but no one ever returned because they just didn't want to (like the Nexus in ST:G). So Kirk and co. would find loads of folks (presumed dead) on the planet who wouldn't leave because the entity has some kind of spell on them.
Interestingly, Shatner said in his 'Star Trek Movie Memories' book that David Loughery+ Harv Bennett did a draft where 'Sha Ka Ree' was intended to be more like the Nexus in Generation ['a land of great peace and containment where no one grows old'] which was awkwardly merged with Shatner's original 'search for God' plot. Your idea would have worked better than how it's presented in the film. Interestingly, when Shatner had another crack at the story with his book 'Ashes to Eden' [which includes a rift between Kirk and Spock+Bones intended for V], he introduced a 'cursed Eden' planet under attack which is quite similar to Star Trek Insurrection.
TMP-Suffered from a very troubled production [detailed in Shatner's excellent 'Star Trek Movie Memories Book']. Clearly going for a more '2001' vibe and the effects still look great today, but it's not for me. Decker and Ilia were the 'first draft' for Rikker and Troi in TNG. WOK-Inferior remakes [Nemesis, Into Darkness] underline how good it was the first time around. Harv Bennet and Nicholas Meyer bring a new energy and Ricardo Montalban is a fantastic villain. SFS-Not bad at all but feels more like an extended TOS episode than the rest of the films [probably as writer Harv Bennet worked mostly in TV]. Certainly odd to see Kirk and Bones without Spock for most of the run time but while not as good as Khan, Christopher Lloyd is an enjoyable villain and it's a pleasant watch. TVH-Probably my fav of the TOS films as it's very funny and quite different from the other films. Amusingly it knocked 'Crocodile Dundee' off the top of the box office when both are 'fish out of water' films! TFF-The hate for this film [allegedly other Star Trek films/shows were not allowed to reference it until recently] is overblown as it's certainly ambitious but the studio probably should have asked for a different story early on as it was always going to be difficult to make it work while the effects are poor and both combine for the disappointing finale. Lawrence Luckinbill does a good job as Sybok and the Kirk-Spock-Bones trio work well but the rest of the crew only get scraps. TUC-An excellent 'farewell' movie which mirrors real world events to great effect, has a brilliant supporting cast [including David Warner and Christopher Plumber] and an great 'twisting and turning' story.
I wish to put forward money to have the scene where Megan uses the remote as a phaser to have the Rob Meyers VFX super imposed onto it. I will pay at least TEN solid gold pennies and a shiny new donkey for it.
I watched the original TOS series of movies around April and May of this year on Max. The most recent version of "The Motion Picture" is really the best way to view the movie. My opinion has changed on it and I now view it in a more positive light. Also, "The Voyage Home" is now my favorite of these six movies, which was not always my opinion. Overall, I think this series is pretty wholesome and fun entertainment for both fans and newcomers. Even if "The Final Fronter" is worth watching just to get to "The Undiscovered Country".
My view on the (original crew) Star Trek films is this. The Motion Picture is an extended episode of - or epilogue to - the Original Sixties series. In fact, TMP begins roughly 1.5 years after the original five-year mission (two years of which we - the audience - never saw). Then, chronologically. The timeline jumps around 10 years, maybe more, to The Wrath of Kahn. This, for me, is when the movie series REALLY starts. Also, The Wrath of Kahn clarifies that the story is set 15 years post-TOS. This is accurate to when the TOS episode Space Seed first aired.
I have never understood the hate for the motion picture. Last year I was lucky enough to go to a back to back screening of The Motion Picture and Wrath of Khan. On the big screen with the score and the effects, TMP is a captivating experience. Yes it's ponderous in its pace but I think it's beautiful actually and it's posing ideas and asking interesting questions. I like the stuff with Spock and his struggle between humanity and his Vulcan side. I find Kirks story interesting because he's being a dick basically but redeems himself across the movie. The monent he see's the Enterprise for thr first time and that docking scene is a thing of beauty and almost brings a tear to my eye. The transporter accident scene is brutal I think and stays with you. I think the film deserves more love than it gets.
Richard, did you set the camera's white balance to beige? Wait... Canada? Never mind. You had it set correctly. Apologies. Love you guys, and to a lesser extent the English-speaking provinces. Vive Quebec.
You are sitting uncomfortably close to one another. Matt Hancock close! One might almost say "intimate". Also, good to have a new video from you guys. Hot take of the day: The Final Frontier is not that bad!
I think tbf Harve Bennett had as much to do with the success of TWOK as Meyer did. He as producer had a lot of work to do to stretch out the much smaller budget compared with TMP, and he watched every episode of TOS and helped write III and IV
By his own admission Bennett, after coming up with the basic 'bring back Khan' idea, struggled to find a suitable script TWOK as he commissioned several drafts- all with different storylines and ideas-and nearly had to go with the most recent script by credited writer Jack B. Sowards which he knew wasn't great. Nicholas Meyer came in and took over the writing uncredited, bringing the best elements of the disparate scripts together which was the basis of the finished film. Bennet was the 'executive producer' on the film [with the producer being Robert Sallin] so probably wasn't 'in the trenches' as much as in 3-5 [where for all 3 he was the producer and had a writing credit]. Not to diminish Bennett-he did his homework and used the budget well-but he definitely owed a debt to Meyer having brought him in for 4 when they needed a new script quickly and wanted him to write 5 but Meyer wasn't free.
Viva val verde forever 🫄🏼 ( I looked for ages for a saluting emoji but couldn’t find one so decided to use the pregnant man one for shits and gigs)! 🫶🏼
