Yep. It's wild how many SW "fans" are out there, ready to hate this series no matter what. I mean, it's got some issues, but it's a long way from the Woke, canon-breaking disaster some people are pretending it is.
The idea was that as a sith you shouldn't share power. There should be a master to hone the power and apprentice to learn it. Thus creating a stronger generation of Sith in each generation. There's also the concept that less individuals tapping into the dark side of the force the greater in power those few individuals will become.
@@Punishthefalse in legends there was a sith lord named Darth Vectivus who was basically a chill dude who studied the dark side and its secrets but lived with his family and never tried to conquer the galaxy. He was not exactly "good" per se but he can be considered the closest a sith can be to a "nice guy"
Actually the Plageuis book hints at how Yoda could know about the Rule of Two because they mention in that book of one of the Bane line of Sith (specifically one of the last that knew of essence transfer) turned back to the Jedi and told them some info before he was killed by the Sith again. Not so much an inconsistency as an obscure reference added after the fact.
@@thatzachguy76 Then that would mean Yoda knew that Maul was a Sith and knew that the Sith still existed. This brings up the question of why didn't they send 20 Jedi to capture Maul and find out who his master was.
Yeah, in the film he could be referencing something he heard ages ago. The Rule of Two is literally "There must always be two, no more and no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it." Or something like that
I mean, in the Phantom Menace itself Qui-gon Jin flat-out says he saw a Sith and Ki-Adi-Mundi just doubts it. How many other times this may have happened before? A Jedi encounters a Sith, survive, reports to their superiors, only for them to doubt it's a Sith, start some investigation and never learn the truth?
These two encounters are just not the same. In Maul's scenario the Council doesn't know anything except that a male zabrak warrior with a red lightsaber, most likely pursuing the Queen, dueled Qui-Gon for 30 seconds. There are so many things he could be in their eyes: assassin, dark Jedi, mercenary, etc. They don't know ANYTHING about him other than he's deadly with the lightsaber. Qimir's scenario provides much more information: a Jedi search team in pursuit of a confirmed Jedi killer discovers a powerful dark side user that butchers MULTIPLE JEDI with ease and straight up tells Sol to call him a Sith. There's no excuse for the Jedi to not think it's anything other than the return of the Sith. The Acolyte is breaking the lore with this. Badly.
@@acrane3496 the jedi are stupid... from a certain point of view. Actual Ki Adi Mundi is the only secondary cast jedi in the trilogy to have more than one scene, and they are all to show the hubris and blindness of the jedi. He and Jocasta Nu represent the prevailing attitude of the jedi order - short sighted and dogmatic. So yes, if every couple of hundred years someone says "I fought a sith" they probably do say "the sith have been extinct for a millennia!"
@@TheTruMan196 did you watch the video because, until the story is over you really can't say it's breaking the lore. besides, lore flexes and stretches all the time, and sometimes characters are just wrong. If we took every line this seriously, we'd say padme dying in childbirth "breaks lore badly" because leia says she remembers her real mother. nobody talks about that anymore. The franchise survived.
@@TheTruMan196 I'm not comparing the two scenarios specifically, I'm just saying that there could be encounters with Sith reported to the Council but the lack of evidence just leaves doubt about the nature of said Sith. As for The Acolyte's story, it's still ongoing, but already we have a single survivor and we don't know how this story is going to end.
If the red lightsaber thing was so conclusively Sith, then Qui-Gon could have just said "I was attacked by a Sith Warrior. I know he was a Sith because he had a red lightsaber." And the Council would have just had to go "Ah, shit, for real? A red lightsaber? The Sith are back, let's go find them."
The first Star Wars book series I read growing up was the Jedi Apprentice series. In that set of books we find out about Qui-Gon's first padawan, Xanatos, who has fallen to the Dark Side, and as a dark jedi he wields a red lightsaber. So for me, having dark side users running around the galaxy with red lightsabers opposing the Jedi seems perfectly plausible. And would explain why the Jedi's first reaction to a Force wilding Jedi killer is to suspect a fallen Jedi, someone trained by a fallen Jedi or a rival faction. So far I don't have a problem with the lore from the Acolyte thus far. I am actually relatively enjoying this new take on Star Wars.
I was just about to post something about this, thank you! I'm really sad that so many people don't know about Xanatos. He was right there in the lore right before TPM.
But it also makes the Jedi look stupid and incompetent in the prequels with how many of them and how easily they fall during the first battle of Geonosis. The Jedi should all be combat-ready with the number of dark Jedi and dark-side users running around now in Legends and in Canon.
yoda knowing the existence of the rule of two is not an inconsistency because of the canon episode in clone wars series where he goes into dark side cave and comes across death banes spirit in the flesh.
It's just sad to see those "star wars fans" call cortosis new, ignore the fact that the rule of two was broken in Legends just about every time something between Ruusan and the Fall of the Republic came up (and arguably in the films, as the timeline doesn't really make sense if maul and tyrannus never where apprentices at the same time) and refuse to believe that at worst Ki-Adi Mundi has conviced himself, that the duo killing 4 masters and severaly knights where in fact not Sith, but witch-related problems. At this point the council knows nothing about Qimir and the Temple Jedi seem to be working hard to keep it that way.
Wasn’t there a High Republic comic that had a mysterious red-blade wielding character that showed up once and we haven’t seen them again (yet)? I wonder if he is somehow connected to the story. Probably not, but it’s fun to discuss the theories.
I have been very disappointed in this fan debate as I thought it was a clear point. I had a lot of hope for the show because I liked the Plagues book and wanted more hidden sith stories
Force Vision Incoming: Oshi becomes an acolyte after Mae gets killed by Sol, and most likely replaces Qimir. I feel like this entire thing is going to be test for Qimir by his Master. Kind of like Plagueis letting Palpatine train Maul. A sith assassin within the Bane line.
I think either Sol dies or he makes it back to coruscant and the Jedi council straight up don’t believe him. That or Vernestra, Ki-Adi and that group pull a cover up to not have to report it to the senate and save face. I think Qimir dies at the hands of his master for taking a risk at exposing the sith far too early. Either Tenebrous or a young Plagueis.
Oof this did not age well huh? Here a rule of thumb for both fandoms and life itself: “Use critical thinking and be an individual.” If you stay true to logic and integrity then you can’t go wrong.
Yeah it's really weird seeing people, even channels, straight up lie about all this like no one will notice. I think in legends there was even a story to explain how Yoda knew about rule of two. Iirc a mad dying dark jedi found out about it and their last words were raving about it. No one took it seriously until TPM. So technically Sol doesnt even have to die. At the very least he must be turned into a grief stricken raving lunatic that no one takes seriously. Well willful ignorance can be attributed to malice. Still surprising to see so much for this.
You're the right track but a huge problem with legends discourse is people going "I think there was a story where" and not checking if it's real or what it was actually called.
@@DrewLSsix Definitely. What I'm hoping for is that Osha will turn to the dark, kill Mae, Sol will be guilted about this, if he survives he's broken and the only words he says "The Sith. There are only two. A master and an apprentice." Maybe the closing scene being Yoda reading the report. Or something like that. I'm looking forward to seeing how they wrap it up.
Canonically, the Jedi have already known about the rule of two for centuries. From the archived online Encyclopedia page on Darth Bane in The Clone Wars: An ancient and legendary Sith Lord, it was Darth Bane who saw that the Sith traditions of old were ultimately a dead end. All too often, squabbling Sith in their bid for power upended carefully laid plans and planted the seeds of their own defeat. After the Sith were decimated by the Jedi Knights of a thousand years ago, Bane enacted the Sith rule of two: there would be only two active Sith at one time -- a Dark Lord to embody the power, and an apprentice to crave it. These Sith would operate in the shadows, favoring guile and conspiracy to bring down their opponents rather than brute force -- that is, until it was time to rise and subjugate the galaxy. *The rule of two was revealed to the Jedi Order of centuries past,* but in their hubris, the Jedi believed that they had destroyed Bane's plan with his defeat. His remains were placed in a sarcophagus on Moraband, the last Sith Lord to be laid to rest in the Valley of the Dark Lords, and the Jedi presumed the Sith to have been wiped out. But Bane's rule of two secretly preserved a Sith vendetta, and for a thousand years, the Sith Lords worked in secret, preparing for a return. This plan culminated in the rise of Darth Sidious, the destruction of the Jedi Order, and the creation of the Galactic Empire.
@@DatAsuna I'd say it's a problem when once challenged not checking and getting mad while pretending to know everything as some lore master. I am tired, not sober, am in youtube comments and not in a video thousands will see, I know I have a shite memory and tend to be aware of it so whenever challenged tend to shut up, check my sources and then post them, or go oops. Which is to say low effort casual conversation is different from... whatever the other is. Is it fandom gaslighting? I dont think we should expect casual conversation to cite every source. In a debate or argument then sure.
The problem with this argument is that, as you very clearly said in the video, when the sith have to show off their abilities, no one survives to tell the tale. The first jedi to get killed already notified the jedi order of a force user attacking her. They investigate, another jedi dies, they continue investigating and like 6 more jedi die in one fight. The person killing those jedi also says hes a sith to the one (jedi) survivor who then escapes to his ship. There is no way he wouldn't then notify the jedi. He obviously wont because the awful writing makes the characters all stupid. Even if he doesn't/cant report back to the b team council like 8 jedi have been killed and they know one of the killers is a force user, that has to turn heads and almost definitely start speculation that the sith have returned, at least among the B team council, one of those B team council members also happens to be the person who says the sith have been extinct for a millenia because hes very arrogantly adamant that maul was not a sith. There is no way they can write there way out of this without it being at least a little bit stupid. Anyway people dont seem to have a problem with this anywhere near as much as the random witch being able to create life, 2 lives in fact, with no push back from the force, that is a way bigger lore issue
To be fair,the Jedi were insanely stupid in the prequels, so being stupid here is totally in character. But if it's been 900 years since a Sith sighting, would it be a natural thing to suspect. Do we automatically assume something must be a Roman Centurion because they spoke Latin. There comes a point where you don't immediately jump to a certain conclusion. Just now I realized if living members remembered a suspected (not confirmed) sighting a 100 years before (and the dumbest Jedi who is always wrong was predictably wrong), then it might explain why they were open to the idea a hundred years later. But this wanders into Obi-Wan Not Recognizing R2 Breaks The Lore territory, where it might be logical (would a guy who barely pays attention to Droid remember a mass produced droid), but still feel wrong to the audience. In any case, we'll need to see how they land it. I still remember people thinking C3PO not remembering the prequels broke lore because they never considered the possibility of Droid getting their memory wiped. It's obvious they think they have a solution, so we'll see.
Numerous dark side factions exist throughout the universe. Beyond that, all it takes is a single person finding a holocron, or a tomb, learning a few things then proclaiming themself as Sith. That doesn't mean they returned, just that someone is tossing the title around. It's entirely possible that's happened multiple times.
@@uberness77 This was a thing in Legends, too, many times. Darth Bane, Ulic Qel-Droma, Exar Kun, Revan and Malak, the Sith Triumvirate, etc. Sith Lords who weren't truly affiliated with either of the true Sith Emipres (Sadow's, Vitiate's, etc) were Sith in name only. And in Revan's case, he used the title of Sith Lord not to conquer, but to prepare the galaxy to resist the threat posed by the Sith Empire that was in hiding.
What is this argument even. People keep talking about going back to the Eu but each time something happens that happened in the Eu suddenly no one remembers
My issue is that in the clone wars show, they are so intentional with their story writing by not having anakin meet grievous. Why can’t they have that sort of attention to detail to make sure this isn’t even a debate.
I feel like people have been ignoring the fact that they said in the show, that they were not going to inform the high council of what was occurring. So far we have no clue if this information ever escapes the event occurring. If the council finds out then I would be irritated but I don’t think that will happen.
@@Beatricia1 Not necessarily, if you're talking about Ep III then that was thousands of Jedi all dying at once. 8 Jedi dying on some far away planet won't resonate that far. hundreds of times more people than that probably die each day in SW universe.
Vanestra chooses to hide from the Council that Osha(a former padawan) is a suspect in the murder of a Jedi master, due to their "political enemies." Evidence of the Sith existing would strengthen the Jedi's political power.
I’m thinking this new Sith is actually Darth Plageuis’ apprentice who resents his master for forcing himself to stay hidden. His whole motivation is he wants to use his powers freely, which is the opposite of the mindset of the Sith at this point. Plageuis will probably show up toward the end and kill his apprentice for almost exposing them, and because of this, he’ll take on Palpatine as an apprentice.
No one is arguing what you talking about. Sith dont need to be extinct wth? The sith cant be revealed to the jedi which at this point still hasnt occurrd.
Wrong... Qui-Gon quite literally saw a force user.... with a red lightsaber... and instantly jumped to it being a Sith. They have been trained to interpret these situations as such. He'd never seen a Sith before that moment.
@@WeaponizedAutism7 And yet by the end of movie, Mace said, "There is no doubt. The mysterious warrior was a Sith." We the audience have not seen them recover any further information. It's plausible they interrogated the Trade Federation leaders who then revealed the identity of Maul, but in that situation, they probably would have talked about Sidious.
@@jaredpoon5869 I think it's most likely that the Jedi talked to the Trade Federation leaders. I think that information combined with more description of Maul provided by Obi-Wan, Padme, and the rest of the Naboo that saw him would confirm that he was at least not a fallen Jedi. The Jedi would definitely know if they trained a Dathomiri Zabrak. They would also know that Maul wasn't working on behalf of the Nightsisters because the Nightsisters don't use lightsabers (in canon, at least) which also implies that they can't make one. The list of groups with the knowledge to make a lightsaber that aren't the Jedi would be very short at this point, plus one of the Trade Federation probably accidentally said the word "Sith" at some point. (The Trade Federation definitely didn't give Sidious up, since Mace and Yoda don't know if Maul was the Master or the Apprentice) Yes, most of this also applies to The Acolyte at this point, so we'll see how they resolve it.
I am continuously flabbergasted by the Disney goyslop lovers bending over backwards to try and cover it up every time Disney jams a round lore piece into a square lore hole. So many will come up with these elaborate explanations to make it fit when it's perfectly obvious the people making these shows don't give two sh*** about Star Wars. In fact the show runners seem to actively seek out those who despise both Star Wars and ESPECIALLY the fans. And by fans I mean the ones who don't clap like seals and tear up at every CGI member berry.
I think there should be room for interactions, baby, this could be the Villain Era. There were interactions but before any goody two-shoes can blab, they get silenced
They dont give a shit about their continuity or anything. Eckharts has lost so much of my faith this last year or two...he remains pushing so much positivity to these shitty shows.
4:00 What my problem with this argument is is that the show makes no effort to portray the belief that its a fallen jedi, not a sith. If its a fallen jedi then they should show the rest checking records to see who disappeared in dubious circumstances. If not, then the scene should've been like in episode 1, where they debate if its a sith.
Basically they are not just fighting to kill but fighting for an agenda as well to stay hidden which would give them extra motivation to survive and get away.
Is it a lot of contradictory things in this video like Star Wars fans shouldn’t hold the legends canon yet you bring up organizations like the prophets of the Darkside which are a legends canon organization. While yes we should wait till the end to judge certain aspects of the show but to criticize how bad film making and storytelling isn’t out of bounds.
He didn't say you can't criticise the show for those things though did he? He's calling out people who don't understand the lore and calling the show bad or lore breaking, which he's right on. He's even said that he's not been a fan of the writing
Can I ask an honest question? Why are we still using Legends stuff as reference? I thought all of that stuff was defunct? That's why Dave Filoni has been adapting it to this new canon.
This is the most reasonable & open-minded response to the details in The Acolyte I've encountered thus far. People are FREAKING out & the season is not over yet.
(about the show) You were the chosen one! It was said that you would *destroy* the Cannon, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness! Hope this gave you a laugh.
Look, im a very casual Star Wars fan, so luckily, I'm on the outside looking in at this mess. But the way i see it, if the showrunners are going to put out a plotline that has a risk for this level of controversy, the choice is simple. Either stay far away from it so you don't cause controversy in the first place. OR use your writing to actually address the controversy. Hell, one throwaway line echoing that the jedi believe that the sith are extinct, or a bit of dialog between two characters expressing confusion about whether the stranger is a true Sith or just a dark force user. Instead they tried to lean into the "everyone is dead so the secret is safe" plot line, which doesn't make much sense since there is basically no way to cover up what happened. Bazil is alive, 7 or 8 jedi are dead, and venestras cover is that Sol somehow killed everyone on Khofar to hide his actions then flew back to brendok to choke himself? It doesn't take much digging to figure out that that story is nonsense. And the season ending teaser iqmplies that she either tells yoda the whole thing and they decide to lie about it forever, lies to yoda who you would think could tell shes lying, or she tells him the truth but she knows qmir isnt a sith. Either way, its a terrible writing decision to push the resolution of that mystery to a second season. Because at this point, the show has lost way more due to the controversy than it has gained duebto the mystery
I think the "broken lore" arguments come strict from the presence of Ki Adi Mundi and the discussion he was having about this potentially being a sith. That is potentially lore breaking and probably shouldn't have been included in the show. A couple of reason I don't think what we have seen will be lore breaking. First, Qimir only claims that the Jedi would call him sith without ever actually claiming the title himself. That leads me the second reason; Qimir is a fallen Jedi. During his training (or rejection from the order) he learned of the sith as the historical enemy of the Jedi using red blades and dark side force powers. This would lead him to claim the Jedi would call him a sith even though he really isn't one.
If fallen Jedi were so common, why would Qui-Gon assume an enemy trained in the Jedi arts is immediately a Sith? If such a brief encounter immediately rings alarm bells that it's likely a Sith, why is the Acolyte not treated with the same suspicions? There 'can' be dark Jedi, the sith 'can' be active behind the scenes, etc, but nothing about the way characters treat the force users in the acolyte makes any sense.
Difference of opinion. Just because Qui-Gon made that conclusion does not mean others would have. There are some notable differences that should be considered. Qui-Gon was not just any other Jedi. He was offered and refused a seat in the Council several times over. He was well known and had a heavy voice in the order. It was not like they were talking to an average master. And given how Qui-Gon acted, I am also willing to bet that his assessment was not based on Maul's looks or the saber, but sensing the strong focus of the Dark Side in him. Jedi and Sith can sense each other. But this isn't just a trait they have by default. And it can also be masked. Palpatine fooled everyone, EVEN Qui-Gon. So I get why this is brought up as an argument but I am going to stress that Qui-Gon is ONE Jedi and is not a representation of the common Jedi. Secondly, there was no mention of a Sith being involved. The whole investigation, while it was aimed at a known Jedi Killer, was on the expectation the one who trained May was a fallen Jedi who was using her to do their dirty work. May was not using a saber either in her efforts, which further distracted them from the nature of this plot.
@@christopherpoet458 Qui Gons assessment had nothing to do with looks, a red saber, or anything. Purely the fact that an enemy was trained in the Jedi arts (and possibly sensing the dark side) was enough to raise a strong suspicion of Maul being sith. I get that Qui Gon was hardly normal, but he wasn't crazy. It was enough to warrant such a possibility. Meanwhile The Acolyte has a seemingly much more capable darkside force user, also trained in the Jedi arts, and nobody ever even raises the possibility? It's treated so significantly differently to Maul that the only explanation is a Meta one, so nobody says anything contrary to Mundi in the prequels. TLDR: any explanation for why The Acolyte antagonists aren't treated as sith only makes Qui Gon less likely to have suggested Maul was a Sith.
@@existentialselkath1264 "Qui-Gon's assessment had nothing to do with looks, a red saber, or anything. - Yes, I agree with this, and I mentioned it in my previous comment. (and possibly sensing the dark side) - Again, I agree, and I highlighted this point as well. but he wasn't crazy. - Absolutely, and I never suggested that he was. Qui-Gon was one of the best in the Order, evidenced by the multiple offers to join the Council, which he turned down. This speaks volumes about his capabilities and reputation. any explanation for why The Acolyte antagonists aren't treated as Sith only makes Qui-Gon less likely to have suggested Maul was a Sith. - This is where we diverge. It's an opinion, not a fact. Not to mention everything I have said and pointed out completely disproves this statement. Your response seems to repeat much of what I already said, then dismisses it without addressing the nuances I mentioned. Let’s clarify a few points: Qui-Gon’s Unique Abilities: Qui-Gon was exceptionally attuned to the Force, which influenced his ability to sense the dark side in Maul. His status and abilities were well above average for a Jedi. Context of the Encounters: Maul: Qui-Gon had a direct, confrontational encounter with Maul, where he sensed the dark side strongly. This, combined with Maul’s skills, led him to conclude Maul was a Sith. May in "The Acolyte": May’s abilities and actions do not match those of a Sith like Maul. She does not exhibit the same level of skill or certainty, making it harder for the Jedi to conclude that her master is a Sith based on limited interactions. Narrative and Meta Considerations: The storytelling in "The Acolyte" has to align with the established lore that the Jedi are unaware of the Sith’s existence at large during this time. This results in a different treatment of dark side users compared to "The Phantom Menace." Specifics of the Investigation: In "The Acolyte," the investigation is aimed at a fallen Jedi, not a Sith. May’s lack of a lightsaber and the subtlety of her actions further distract from the possibility of her being linked to a Sith Lord. Sol’s interaction with May does not provide enough evidence to conclude her master is a Sith. The Jedi require more explicit proof to make such a claim. It’s important to recognize the narrative constraints and character differences that influence these reactions. I appreciate the discussion and hope this clarifies my points. Let's see how the story develops in the upcoming episodes."
@@christopherpoet458 I repeat a lot of what you've said because I feel like it specifically supports my argument and was confused that you didn't see that. Also, I'm talking about the master, not May. "Narrative and Meta Considerations: The storytelling in "The Acolyte" has to align with the established lore that the Jedi are unaware of the Sith's existence at large during this time. This results in a different treatment of dark side users compared to "The Phantom Menace."" this is a problem.
@@existentialselkath1264 No, I do not see how is supports what you are saying. And I am now ever further confused because Sol's first interaction with the Sith is in Episode 4. He didn't know they were a Sith until then. And if we are talking about the moment with Sol asks him to validate who he is, my assumption of the moment was dramatic effect or complete and utter shock on Sol's part. A moment of disbelief. And yes, yes it is a problem and I am not going to deny that. It also comes with the territory. Prequels are tricky for many reasons, that being one of them. Which is why they do not often work very well. EDIT: Mistake on my part. they meet in EP 5 more officially. The Master is introduced as a cliff hanger in the end of Ep4. On that note, I think we really need to clarify what scene is being talked about. I went into this on the assumption the argument is backing the supposed problem that the Jedi as a whole should now be aware of the Sith and that Sol should have been aware of it before the interaction with the Master between the end of Ep 4 and through Ep 5. I apologize for completely misjudging that if I have done so.
Sorry to break the bubble with the Sith bit since that storyline is considered "Legends" that Disney wanted to ignore. That's why we get so excited when people like Admiral Thrawn brought into the films.
Even if the sith was outed. That would have been recorded that the jedi encountered a sith, and master kit would have said it's been one hundred years since the last encounter, not extinct for millennia.
Not to mention if they were only dark Jedi, it would make the Jedi Order hyper-vigilant against all rogue Force users and combat-ready against them as well. The first battle of Geonosis wouldn't have happened and Palpatine never would have gotten into power.
@@angryjoe98 Doesn’t matter. They have nearly a dozen Jedi murdered by hostile Force sensitives capable of killing Jedi Masters with no issue. This should have sent the Jedi Order into a frenzy as they ramped up combat training and quietly informed the Republic that the Sith may be returning. The Republic shouldn't resemble what we see in the Prequels. It should look more like it did on the eve of the Great Galactic War.
@@Lobsterwithinternet lmao wow that is not how it works. You seem to miss the whole point that the Jedi are failures. Why do you think they went extinct? The point is the consistency fail to take action they cover things up they dont take threats seriously. It’s been a consistent theme throughout Star Wars for the last 20 years and it seems like you people are missing it. You also felt to understand that there are dark Jedi in the university Jedi still have other enemies. The obvious assumption that they would make is that the evil twin killed them not a sith lord.
@@angryjoe98 Failure is one thing. Complete stupidity is another. It makes the fact they lasted a thousand generations look like a lie and puts everything they did into question. And if there are so many dark Jedi and rogue Force users running around, how can the Jedi cover them up if they're simultaneously this incompetent? There should be whole armies of force users and dark Jedi conquering space and toppling the incompetent Republic. What you're describing and what this show and legends say are incongruent with what we see in the movies.
I hate the Acolyte but in Legends both Leia and Adi Gallia, two *very light-sided* characters, both had crimson-colored crystals at one point or another.
Can you source a quoted reference to a red saber for Adi Gallia. In the pictures that appear red most of the surrounding books describe it as orange or bronze
First of all according to Disney legends is not canon second in legends even Luke had a crimson lightsaber and third the prequels are canon and that is where it is said about the sith not appearing in a 1000 years and also they break canon with the rule of two because by that time Darth Tenebrous and Darth Plagueis were alive meaning this sith should have had a master and for him to search for a student he would have already kill him so also they broke the rule of two
@@jesusgaston3457 Sith apprentices almost always look for their own apprentice before confronting their master. That's the plot in Force Unleashed for instance. I think I remember that happening in the Darth Bane books as well, and he created the Rule of Two in the first place. It's basically how the Sith are supposed to operate. The role of the apprentice is to lust for power and do all they can to supplant their master
@@bluemoondm8629 yeah and that was not breaking the rule of two but with this in the acolyte this is a sith who had another master and that it could not be Darth tenebrous or Darth Plagueis because they both respected a lot the rule of two so again they broke the rule of two on the acolyte
What if Qimir has been trained by the Sith master but is only an Acolyte himself without realising it? If we could believe that Darth Plagueis is the current Sith master then he might be using Qimir as a placeholder until he meets his real apprentice, which would be Palpatine. The big twist could be that Qimir was the acolyte all along and the Sith master never intended to have him as a full apprentice at all.
We still dont know if Qamir is what he sort of claims himself to be or if Sol survive long enough to reach Couruscant. But I thiught it was obvious that the Sith actually exist all those years, not just disceovered by the Jedi. And thats why I have trying to explain that not every darkside user is a Sith and that the Jedi has encountered and dealt with enough fallen Jedi to assume any red blade wielder is aFallen Jedi rather than a Sith. It would also has been much ”safer” for the show to stick with that concept rather than trying to explain how the Jedi encounter a person who claims to be a Sith in this era. That has to be handled for them to stick the landing so to say.
Why kenobi specifically, everyone always says that. Boba and mando season 3 were arguably much worse written, especially with regards to fan favourite characters, but it seems like there's way more hatred for specifically Reva than nearly any other Disney characters or stories
@@HappyGingerWolf Because Reva was a terrible written character. If you look at it, fans weren't hating on the actress portraying her because she actually played the part well, it was just a poorly written character that did fit in to the story in any way and thats why people hated Reva.
Im still thinking they are going to lean into the Knights of Ren or some other witchy offshoot. Let them run around to cause issues, letting the actual Sith in the far background controlling it and leading the Jedi to keep saying "Na, they arent sith, just wannabe Jedi"
I will take every criticism of this show with several grains of salt because people were already hating on this show way before it released for being "woke" (meaning, it dares to have a black girl protagonist). The show can still be shit, don't get me wrong, but people are gonna hate on it regardless on whatever it does.
my theories are that either the jedi cover it up to save their reputation or that they don't believe qimir is actually a sith i mean look what happened with darth maul in phantom menace
In the Plagueis novel, it is brought up that that around 200 years before the Phantom Menace, some Sith Lord screwed up and the Jedi felt that disturbance. He tells Palpatine that if their secret is discovered by the Jedi, that those Jedi must die. In another story (I’d have to look it up) there’s this Jedi (a Jedi Sentinel) who was on a secret mission to follow a lead as to a possible Sith. He of course meets a tragic end before he could send his report. In another story, the Jedi discovered that some Sith had survived, as well as Darth Zannah (Bane’s apprentice). Some used to make the point that the Jedi likely learned of the Rule of Two back then. And there is the Jedi rule against genocide and the freedom of other Force using traditions to practice the Force (even the Darkside), so long as it doesn’t risk destabilizing the galaxy. So in the past, the Jedi just demilitarized and exiled the trouble makers (including dark Jedi and Sith), rather than wiping them out. Once, after the Hyperspace war (I think it was), the Jedi held back what it considered to be an attempted genocide of the Sith by the Republic, because the Sith had already been beaten down to the brink of that. Of course the Sith believe otherwise, which was why they keep bringing up having their revenge. Meanwhile in this show, Ki-Adi-Mundi seems fairly adamant that Mae’s (or Osha since not all them seemed to be convinced that Mae had survived since Jedi report of that incident, including Sol’s account claimed that they saw her die) and convinced that her Master must be a Jedi. And they will only have Sol’s claim that there was a Sith Lord, unless Mae, whom again they might be inclined to believe her to Osha, also claims the same. But since they won’t be able to find any evidence of a Sith and that they other surviving Jedi from 16 years earlier had issues, including mental issues over what happened 16 years earlier, they might be inclined to reason that there was no Sith, and maybe no Mae, but rather that it was instead Master Sol and maybe Osha since he had trained her. Doubly so, since Mae will tell them that the 4 Jedi that played part in what went down 16 years are actually guilty of a crime and covered it up, as a way to get her justice, which she had brought up a few times now was either through revenge or outright revealing their crimes to the Jedi Council so that they can be arrested. So Vernestra and Mundi nor the Jedi High Council and the Republic Senate will ever learn of the existence of the Sith who was/is behind these incidents. Which was already confirmed by the writers. So I don’t know what everyone is crying about.
The Lores between films, comics, videogame and TV series are different. I remember clone wars description I read on Sw book during the 90',was different from Clone wars now. It happens when you have hundreds of authors.
A wise jedi should assume there's always a couple of sith hiding in the galaxy somewhere. It should never be a surprise to find one. The rule of 2 should be taught to jedi from a young age whether there's a threat or not. It makes sense that random people will be born and corrupted by the dark side of the force.
Do your research better bro. You missed a lot of story points in the books like about how Yoda was told about the Rule of Two and that’s how he and the Jedi knew. Revise your script before you come out here telling the entire Star Wars community is wrong and causing misinformed divide.
Man. If disinformation makes one angry then I don’t know how said person survives in the modern era. Misinformation is constant now everywhere and one needs to be studied in areas they like in order to avoid the desired misinformation. Sure everyone will quote the prequels now and I know the Sith DIDNT GO INSTINCT. But the rule of 2 basically turned them from army to spies. What one needs to understand here is that the meme overload is because the community hasn’t been this unhappy since Episode 8. People finally learned that hate watching is stupid and are instead flooding in-mass in social media to talk the series in general and watch reviews, hence not watching it in Disney+
A lot of the star wars content, Disney produced the last years was just very good. Andor, Bad Batch, Rogue One, Mando, Rebels, Ahsoka, the last clone wars seasons and more... Acolyte is shaping up to be very good aswell after episode 5. I enjoy it a lot with my friends and daughter. These "culture war" idiots can just go away, and continue to suck these alt right youtube incels.
There's a dark jedi that Yoda brings in for consultation on the Levelers in the High Republic novels. They aren't always adversarial with jedi exiles, at least during the High Republic.
Legends? Canon? No, no. Retcon is the Disney way. It's their shtick, all the way back to the 40's. They'll do whatever they want to the story as long as it sells.
its more that there is now a sith/ dark side user who says he wants to practice his power without the jedi interfering, then sends his "acoylte" to kill jedi. Never mind the inconsistencies of Mae from scene to scene. Not fans not understanding the lore
That was his point: critique the storytelling on the basis of bad storytelling and not on imagined lore inconsistencies. Theres quite a lot to dislike even without making stuff up to be mad about imo.
I think at least in Disney canon they explained Yoda knowing about the Rule of Two because the Jedi caught up with Bane and thought they killed him. They learned about his rule from him and yes, it causes a host more questions. Why didn't they make sure they killed him and the apprentice? How were they so sure the rule was still in effect if they thought they did kill off his lineage? However - it does answer how they know.
Qimir literally said "I have no name. But a Jedi like you might call me a Sith". To me this is VERY clear that he doesn't call himself a Sith, and doesn't even care to categorise himself into any label. More like a rogue. English isn't even my mother tongue, and yet so many of these native-speaking Star Wars fans fail to understand such simple nuances in literature...
Bane and his apprentice where trapped when they encountered the jedi the Stranger was not the only thing I can think of it was frustration that made him attack the Jedi - that and to bring out the lies of the Jedi so Mae can see them how the Stranger does.
I would generally agree with the video and that the jedi would deny the existence of the sith, but after so many dead jedi searching for Mae they should really be alarmed.
You completely misunderstood all the criticisms and concerns levied against this show. No one is saying that we can't have a guy using a red lightsaber. No one is saying we can't have any Sith in there. The whole idea is that it's the POV of the Sith while they're in hiding. The one thing everyone is worried about is if they're going to have it such that the Jedi discover the Sith before TPM. We are fine with the Sith encountering the Jedi as long as there are no survivors. That's what everyone speculated they would do. Before then, everyone speculated that Smilo Ren wasn't even Sith. But now, he straight up told a Jedi Master that he is a Sith, and that Jedi Master escaped. He's still alive. The biggest reason for concern is that Disney Star Wars has a track record of breaking the lore and canon like toothpicks. They have a habit of writing awful, lazy, trashy stories, baring Andor, the one good thing Disney Star Wars made. As it stands now, the show is poised to undermine the world-building laid out in TPM unless they kill off Master Sol or if there is a cover-up. Those are the only two solutions to maintain continuity, and even then, they have issues. If they kill off Sol, it will more than likely be extremely unsatisfactory, knowing the competence of the writers, but at least the canon is maintained. If there is a cover-up, then that would have great implications for the narrative and the characters who partake in the cover-up. If the Jedi councile never hears of this encounter with the Sith because of a cover-up, then the unprepared state we find them in TPM would have been because of the person who did the cover-up. Thus, they would have doomed the Jedi Order. Edit: Lastly, most people haven't seen old expanded universe content and don't care about it. They care for more primary and direct forms of media like shows and movies. To some people, that is all the canon of Star Wars is. They do not factor in obscure or niche comics like some diehards would, and even if these comics or books broke the canon in the way people fear The Acolyte would, pointing it out does not make The Acolyte any less problematic should they break the lore. Pointing out a problem in another place does not mean the problem disappears or is no longer a problem. This is a logical fallacy. But honestly, I'm just disappointed by the video. You're fighting a strawman and resorting to clickbait? You're being incredibly inflammatory about it and acting like everyone who raises concern about this and points out the potential damage that can be done are just a bunch of morons who haven't read the lore or understand it. It's honestly just so incredibly toxic, and it really is indicative of the sorry state of Star Wars that this is what's becoming of its "fandom."
Honestly I'm more baffled how Yoda and Windu knew about Bane and the Rule of Two in TPM but they shouldn't have encountered any bane-lineage sith to begin with.
@@bryanmanuelbaes7871 The Prequels weren't exactly known for being good movies. Even then, I wouldn't use that as an excuse to justify or excuse the bad writing in the Acolyte.
Toxic Entitled Fans: cry and wine about Star Wars EckhartsLadder: makes a reasonable post explaining the shows possible intentions Toxic Entitled Fans: You disagree with us? You're TOXIC!!!! WAH! WAH! WAH!
@@michaeltong9770 You know the reason I called this video toxic has nothing to do with him "disagreeing" and everything to do with the video's elitist, condescending, and inflammatory presentation. He was even arguing against points that no one was making, like "there couldn't be any Sith," or "the Sith can never use their lightsabers," and even "the Jedi must never encounter the Sith." No reasonable person who is critical of the Acolyte is saying those points. And your response...Jesus Christ, that was childish, immature, disrespectful, insulting...and vindicating. All you've just done with your comment is prove everything I said and everything I believe about the Star Wars fandom correct. Because you just couldn't help yourself, yeah? You just had to call me "toxic and entitled," portray me as a crybaby, and completely ignore all the substance of what I said. I'm glad I left the Star Wars fandom because if this is the level of intelligence and courtesy I can expect from Disney defenders, then I don't want to be here.
Jedi occasionally seeing force users with red sabers is actually making the reaction of the council even more reasonable. If they rarely encountering those ds force users and non of them were sith, than Qui-Gon's conclusion that his attacker was a sith sound more like a delusion of grandeur. That being said Star Wars is full of unplanned retcons and inconsistencies. The acolyte is not the worst offender in that regard.
The short of it, don't discuss whether or not this actually breaks canon until the show is actually done. We haven't actually seen the show's reasoning as to how this fits into canon yet.
I think it's also entirely possible that even if Sol does report the existence of the Sith to the Jedi Council, the Council could just dismiss this claim and refuse to believe it. Sort of like in Mass Effect when a Reaper was right in front of the Citadel Council and mopping the floor with their fleet and they just outright denied its existence as a Reaper. The Jedi Council, who have not even encountered the Sith, could do something similar. The Jedi Council in the Phantom Menace also seemed unwilling to confirm Qui-Gon's report about Darth Maul being a Sith if I remember correctly.
True but that is the whole point of this video as well. I wish people would watch it if they like it or not watch it if they don't like it but that's not how people work.
Qimir, or whatever his name is, said, "A Jedi would call me Sith" ... or something along those lines. So I would say that Qimir is certainly not a Sith. Because I think if you were really a Sith, you would say it directly. So he could have said, "I am a Sith," simply and directly. But you'd have to say it convincingly for a Jedi Master like Sol to believe it.
Eck I have a great video Idea. How would Star Wars space battles play out if Modern Fighter BVR tactics are used? and btw, why aren't missiles used more in Star Wars?
The star wars galaxy is big. I think it would be better if some Sith didn't follow the rule of two, or thought that they and their apprentice should be the two, rather than others. I just think more bad guys is more better. And Sith can make really good bad guys.
She was affiliated with the Sith due to Dooku being a genuine Sith Lord. There are exceptions. Plagueis, the novel, is considered canon and his Sith Master had a second apprentice who was also bestowed with the title “Darth”. Both apprentices were genuine Sith Lords. Even Sideous did the same as his master was still alive when he took on Darth Maul as an apprentice. Plagueis knew of Maul’s existence but certainly wouldn’t have authorised his induction into the Order as a legitimate Sith Lord with the Darth title. Dooku could’ve did the same with Ventress if he had wished to do so.
@@Turambar_499 Ahh, I thought he was referring to her after she became his assassin. I am not too familiar with the Clone Wars as I’ve only watched the entire series once.
Yeah, maybe, but Bane got the rule of two idea from Revan. I think that they thought it died with Bane but didn't know about his apprentice Darth Zannah.
I’m so glad you gave people like me a voice, who are tired of hearing that one bs line from ki adi mundi used over and over to hate the show. Like it’s so much canon lore that was broken by George himself and nobody complained. They are only doing it now because it’s 2024 and that’s what people like to do.
Justin is the only one of this scale who actually knows about the lore and doesn't just rip stuff off wookipedia or reddit it seems. Corey and plenty of others exist but don't have the numbers that some of these big rage bait channels have
@@JJJBunney001 I mean we all know SW theory is the big perp here and he knows star wars. But he his expectations are always too high and he rage watches too many shows expecting it to disappoint him. And the SECOND something touches hours precious prequel trilogy he will hate it.
Checked out when the shilling started a year or two ago. Decided to check back in and this is the first thing I see: cope for a dog water show. Even if you can justify the decisions in this show with lore, it is still a God awful, poorly written, badly acted, and all around horrible Star Wars show made by a group of people who care nothing for Star Wars. That’s what passionate Star Wars fans are rallying behind.
"Spread the word, reporting to high command." You are thinking like a dirt general and not a Jedi Master. The green Jedi Master should have sensed the strong presence of the dark side as she walked among the corpses in the most recent episode. Really she should have sensed their deaths across the stars but being on a planet with a lot of corruption, politicians, etc. I can excuse that. However after walking amongst the dead the presence of the dark side should be very strong there. Too strong to be from a mere fallen Jedi. But then, these clunky Jedi needs a squirrel faced gopher thing to lead them around. So that is expecting way too much. Oh no my friend, it is not justified by the lore at all.
I love how the showrunners make something so bad, and the Star Wars community to work hard to make the crap fit into the lore. The show runners have little to no knwalage of Star Wars, and what they know or found has been stitched together. You might get it to work with the lore or you might not, at the end of the day, they did not think about it as much as the community does
How exactly would the Jedi fight a force user with dark side powers and a red lightsaber and then go, "Nope, just a dark jedi." I mean how exactly did they define a 'dark jedi' in order to differentiate them from a sith?
trust in the force? can i say what the force wants you to do the 7 jedis? the force is telling you to literally get slained. do you want to take that path? i ask to the 8 jedis
I'm unable to watch the series, but my biggest issue along these lines is simply the fact that Ki-Adi Mundi is in the show and interacting with the plot. If it had been some other Cerean jedi, there'd be no problem, but having Ki-Adi-Mundi involved long before he should have been born and then show up in the Phantom Menace to deliver his lines is just madness.
I think it was a very wierd idea to include Ki Adi Mundi in the show but from what we've seen so far I think saying that he is actively interacting with the plot is an overstatement. He just stands at a table while other people talk about what they think is a fallen Jedi. He could end up becoming more involved in the situation at the end but right now I don't think his presence in that one scene changes anything lore-wise apart from his legends birth date.
Yeah, the fact they went out of their way to include him, meaning they knew who he was and that he couldn't be alive, is just more proof they don't care about the real fans or the actual lore/canon of Star Wars and are doing it for clicks and out of spite.
For your consideration. Qmir is a Force Sensitive smuggler. Smuggling Sith artifacts has long since been a thing in Legends so there's no reason it couldn't also be in Disney canon. Qmir comes across either a Sith holocron or a map leading to the grave of a former Sith Lord that has holds his armor and saber. Qmir self teaches himself. He claims himself to be Sith, but really he's just a pretender. Remember, Ventress also called herself Sith, but Dooku refuted her, calling her a pretender. If Qmir is outted to the Jedi as just some random guy who found a Sith Holocron, then obviously the Jedi are going to dismiss him as a fake. I would not be surprised if the show ends with Qmir escaping the Jedi's search, and gets confronted by the ACTUAL Lords of the Sith...and well...there can only be two so...
If noone survives to tell the Jedi about this dark side user with a red lightsaber who calls himself a Sith then there's no issue. But if anyone makes it back to tell this story it is a massive issue. Fortunately none of this matters because I've already stricken this from the only canon that matters. Head canon. If Disney doesn't respect the lore, stories, or fans then I really couldn't care less what they want to pretend is "canon" and what isn't.
