According to the novelization, Dooku believed the plan was that he would be taken alive and be able to blame the actions of the Separatists on General Grevious and the Separatist council. After they were captured he would sign a treaty with the new Empire to end the clone wars and use his position to gain influence, likely as a Moff.
There is also the memes. "DEWIT!" "HEHEHE! Time to abandon ship!" "Have you heard the tale of Darth Plagueis the Wise?" "KILLED...YOUNGLINGS!" "POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!!!"
@Palantiri it means he can do stuff with the Force on a larger scale than everyone else. The movies don't show it very well, but strength in the Force varies, some people can only barely use it to move relatively small objects, even with training, while Anakin can do incredible things that make Starkiller nearly ripping a Star Destroyer out of the sky look like child's play. And that was considered impressive by normal Jedi standards and he struggled to do it. Most Jedi top out at tossing around ships around the size of the Millennium Falcon, but Anakin's abilities topped out at much larger objects and over much greater distances. I mean, he literally held back the ocean. Twice. Hell, in the attack on the Jedi Temple, he killed at least 3 Jedi Masters (along with all the younglings and padawan he killed).
The reason that the "Protect me Chancellor" line didn't make it into the movie because Christopher Lee thought it didn't fit the character. And when Christopher Lee says something like you went along with it!
The novelization had that, too, though the dialogue itself was more developed (he was straight-up begging the Chancellor to help him, claiming they "had a deal"). Christopher Lee basically flat-out said that Dooku would face death with dignity, not begging for his life, and I'll be damned if that wasn't exactly what he did.
See but I also think he'd be like "oh fuck this then" and just tell Anakin that palpatine was evil. Once he's literally sentenced you to death I can't imagine youd have very much loyalty to the guy. It's not like he didn't try to tell obi wan on geonosis in the first place.
Christopher Lee always seems to be getting the short end of the stick in the 3rd installment of trilogies (except for Hobbit). First in LOTR:ROTK, he wanted ROTK boycotted after his role as Saruman got cut and was left with a throwaway line that he will remain under Treebeard’s watch. Then in Revenge of the Sith, Lee tells Lucas Dooku doesn’t deserve a bitch death.
My interpretation of Palpatine waiting so long to dissolve the senate even after the empire was officially formed is because he was waiting for the Death Star to be completed and thus his power becoming absolute. While he's the ultimate authority over matters that come up in the senate, giving the leaders of planets the illusion of at least some control makes it easier to keep them in line and any problems they might cause to a minimum. Once the Death Star is complete, a seemingly invincible super-weapon that than blow up any planet whose leadership disagrees with him, Palpatine no longer has any reason to keep up the illusion. He can keep everyone in line through fear, as no one would dare make moves against him when he has something that devastatingly powerful at his command. Especially when, in the case of Alderaan, the empire shows it is more than willing to use it.
That was explained in VI by the room full of Moffs on the Death Star. Once the battle station was fully operational he dissolved the Imperial Senate as his new command structure was ready along with his ball of doom.
On the "Anakin not being a Master" bit: There was a video essay i watched that dealt with this issue and how the video author would have fixed it. Essentially, the idea was that Anakin had been a slave his entire life, and his joining of the Jedi was his first exposure to true freedom. He excelled in his studies, and is shown approval from his peers for his abilities. But being denied the rank of "Master" put a ceiling on that freedom, and it hits him that nothing has really changed about his life; he's just serving different master.
Linkara: What new powers? "There's a simple explan-" OH SHUT YOUR INANIMATE FACE! I swear, anytime Linkara mentions anything about "new powers" regardless of context, that immediately pops into my head.
Y'know, as someone who loves the Star Wars prequels, I generally agree with most of your criticisms- and it's nice to see someone who can do ACTUAL CRITICISM take a swing at the Prequels, as opposed to, like... literally every other take I've ever seen just being vitriol wall to wall, to the point where watching these videos (which, admittedly, I've been dreading for months) I've actually seen a few elements of these films in a new light... but I think if there's one thing I don't agree on, it's the analysis of where Anakin should be "as a villain". Because Anakin Skywalker is the living embodiment of the phrase, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Like, if Vader had the chance to write a memoir before he died, that would be the title. Because the thing about Anakin is... he cares. He cares a LOT. He's got a LOT of feelings, and he doesn't know how to manage them, and the Jedi's "control your emotions" doctrine is exactly zero help, so of course he's put in a position to be groomed by a Sith Lord. Maybe this is coming from having A. read the novelization of this book, which is excellent, and B. watched Star Wars: The Clone Wars, but the thing about Anakin is... he wants to save everyone. But he can't. That's his tragic flaw. That's why he tries to help the clone pilots. That's why he latches on to his desire to stop people from dying, and why Palpatine's bait of "saving others from death" draws him in. Anakin Skywalker was never taught how to manage grief and loss, and he hasn't got the foggiest idea how to deal with it when someone he loves is violently ripped from his life, and the Jedi haven't got the foggiest idea how to teach a hyperemotional child growing into a hyperemotional adult how to cope with it, because their entire lives are spent downplaying and avoiding those aspects of life, in ways that work for them, but not Anakin. Anakin does not know how to cope with death or loss, and in the end, that's what consumes him. Not just his anger, not just his selfishness, but the fact that his good heart and his good intentions were used to twist him up and make him into the very thing he swore to destroy. And I don't think that takes away from the menace of Vader; if anything, it paints Vader as a more tragic, but no less threatening figure, because he has absolutely nothing left to lose at the start of A New Hope, and that makes him an instrument, a terrifying force of nature that doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything around him, so trying to appeal to any humanity is pretty useless. And I think Anakin needed to be a good person so that when Vader is redeemed and becomes Anakin again, it doesn't feel like an ass-pull. Because I think if Anakin wasn't that kind of person, trying to save everyone he could right up to the end, before his fall, if he'd become Vader in Episode II as you'd said... I don't know if I'd have bought his redemption in Return of the Jedi. I'unno. That's how I read it.
Ben Reilly Exactly what I was saying. Not sure why Linkara prefers he be just completely evil without any sense of tragedy to him. I just don’t understand it
@@LegendPurpleDragon152 I think Linkara has very strong personal conceptions and ideas about how story arcs should be told. We've known this tho since his critique of Superboy Prime seems to be mostly that Evil Superman should be dark and brooding.
@@LegendPurpleDragon152 I think he believes it would make more sense to simply have him showing a bit more darkness near the start of this film and the end of the last one.
Very well said. The RotS novelization adds so much depth, especially when it came to Anakin's existential dread manifested in The Dragon, "Even stars die, Anakin".
We are certainly *told* that Anakin cares about things a great deal. The character presented on screen only cares about himself and things pertaining to him. He destroys a galactic civilization because someone hinted to him that he might get more power to save Padme from some theoretical doom. His darkest moment before that was revenge for his mother. Maybe if Anakin had ever displayed "good intentions" beyond himself and the bare handful of people he considers to matter, this intended arc would actually play on screen, rather than just being something were told about. Talking briefly about freeing slaves when he was 9 years old is doing a lot of heavy lifting, character wise. Maybe they could have tied that idea back into something later, like having him express doubts about the morality of a clone army since they're literally slaves, I dunno. Just a thought.
Fun fact, Dooku was supposed to beg for his life in the RotS film, but Sir Christopher Lee outright told Lucas that he felt that would be out of character for Dooku to do that and in an extremely rare moment Lucas actually LISTENS to his actor's suggestion and changed it allowing Lee to emote the surprise, shock and betrayal through facial expression rather than do the begging lines. Lee was also doing work on LotR during this time and rightfully prioritized his role as Saruman which also led for some other lines of dialogue being cut in RotS("Just because there are two of you do not presume you have the advantage" being one of these) Sadly Lucas would NOT do something similar for Grievous and we instead got meme Grievous from RotS, not unstoppable death bringer like the 2003 masterpiece and EU lore gave us.
To be fair Lucas would listen to any of the actors if they weighed their opinion on what the characters would/wouldnt do. The problem was Lucas was built up as such an immaculate genius for making Star Wars by the time of the Prequels everyone just followed what he said without ever questioning his logic. But Lucas 100% would work with the actors when they requested stuff, hence Mace and his lore-breaking purple saber (since Lucas just wanted blue/green lightsabers).
@@pete_lind the empire, the rebel alliance and the Jedi all definitely have logos. I don't know for sure but the new republic and the old republic (clone wars era, whatever Disney calls that now) probably have logos too. Mandalore has one too.
@@greatsayain yes, the somewhat sad thing here though is that Lee wanted to prioritize his last scene as Saruman(where he dies in RotK) so Lucas agreed to cut back on the scenes and dialogue Dooku was supposed to have, which was supposed to show more of Dooku and Palpatine initially interacting before the duel, which was kept for the novel. The sad part is that Lee's death scene(which is one of his best performances) in RotK was cut from the theatrical version without Lee's knowledge after it was filmed. This caused some understandable resentment from Lee who had had to travel between sets of the two projects during filming, so scenes of both Dooku and Saruman dialogue got cut from final film versions.
"The fights with him (Grevious) are ultimately meaningless." He was the commander of the droid army and the final military obstacle in reuniting the Republic after it had been slit by the Separatists. He hadn't been stopped he would have been a far larger thorn in Palpatine's side. He's also the excuse for why Obi Wan cannot be there for Anakin within the plot, taking away a source of guidance and pillar of discipline. For Anakin to fall to the Dark Side, you need to distance him from any sense of security.
Plot-wise? They have a purpose definitely but with how Grievous is here? He really is kind of meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Really nothing more than an excuse for a lightsaber duel involving a guy with four arms, especially when you consider everything that does happen afterward. Honestly it's what makes Linkara's suggestion to kind of combine Dooku and Grievous make a whole lot more sense because visually Grievous is supposed to be foreshadowing for Anakin's fate which is _dripping_ with potential for how it can be integrated into the story but as it is? Grievous is just some asshole who you need a micro-series and comics to flesh out details that should've been in the movie proper.
Stover's novelization honestly goes into more depth with the whole Master thing. Anakin would have gotten access to tons of advanced knowledge on the Force from holocrons and other data which would have possibly allowed him to save Padme.
amazonstorm sadly. . . Linkara just wants to stick to the movies and movies alone. Which honestly sounds like both a good thing and a bad thing, good because we can see how weak or strong a movie series can actually be. It’s a bad thing though cause even before the prequel movies, there is AAAAALLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTT of legends content and while they’re not all winners there are some that are awesome and worth looking into.
@@judeskater93 Oh hell yeah, there's a lot of Legends material that is really good, especially the stuff revolving around the prequel era... though honestly I think it's best because while there is good stuff there, the average viewer is not gonna have a clue and really shouldn't have to rely on books and comics to get the major details the films should've already had.
Aspiring Creator in some ways yes, the downside is though that much like anything that gets blown up as much as Star Wars does, it’s going to expand much further out into other sources of media outside of movies and those other sources tend to start getting more focus than the movies that started it, though I’ve had both the weird and lucky experience to meet others that actually do stick with a healthy balance of enjoying and appreciating both, something that I tend to stick with too. Not to mention I can think of worst ways to confuse an average viewer, anyone here familiar with the fate series by any chance???
@@judeskater93 Oh of course. It's inevitable when you have a franchise like Star Wars being as massive as it is. That being said, I do feel that sometimes people can get too wrapped up in the EU to the point where they lose sight of the fact that not everyone has indulged in it and that this is not a talk about the EU or Star Wars as a larger whole but rather on just one specific section. For instance, I think if Linkara was reviewing the prequel era in general and not just the movies, it would make sense to cover some expanded material but of course, he isn't. He's covering the movies by way of the comics.
5:36 I don't think he exactly ever stopped caring about the clones considering he kept the 501st as his own personal Stormtrooper legion. He didn't know about the inhibitor chips after all.
I wouldn't say Vader cared about the clones so much as he recognized their skill as soliders. in legends, he keeps the clones but in canon, most of the clones were discharged and Vader is just looking for excuses to discharge the few clones who remain, heck when he first got his suit he started hunting clones for sport just so he could test his suits limits.
They did explain, or at least Obi Wan implied, that to gain the rank of master you have to successfully train a padawan. I know this is supplementary material, but in Star Wars: the Clone Wars Anakin had a padawan, Asoka Tano. She completed her training over the course of the series but got wrongfully expelled for a crime she did not commit. After she cleared her name she still did not return, so the Jedi council (the ones who expelled her without doing a proper investigation) decided that Anakin failed as a master for not convincing her to return and become a Jedi Knight.
Yep. It's funny how now r/PrequelMemes is set to overtake r/StarWars as the biggest Star Wars subreddit, and how they managed to beat freaking Endgame in the RT poll (and only lost to Dark Knight Rises because someone managed to rig that round against them (there's an actual confession)).
I do like the addition of the "use your aggressive feelings" line to this scene. The Chancellor, sitting in a throne, witnessing a duel between his current apprentice and future prospect. It's extremely obvious this fight is supposed to invoke/ mirror the throne room duel from Return of the Jedi. ...And the movie NEVER addresses or comments on this! Hell, even the video game adaptation touched on the similarities (with a really cool shot in a cutscene)
I don't think so. The line is just so reminiscent of Dark side-teachings that even Anakin would have noticed. Even Palpatine's push for execution is a little too much.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who still appreciates that awesome cutscene in the RotS video game. The game really makes it easy to relate to Dooku's fear as he watches Anakin slowly and silently march up the stairs to finish their fight. And of course, I love how that final saber lock perfectly mirrors the moment where the Emperor watches Luke and Vader begin their duel in Return of the Jedi.
I'm so glad someone else knows about the video game adaptation, that game was so awesome. Except the leadup to general grievous with all those turrets, but oh well.
Honestly, one of the reasons the 2008 Clone Wars worked (Apart from many other great things about it) was it made the political talk interesting. Also, the show did a great job establishing that neither side was perfect, and that were also respectable and good people on the side of the Separatists.
Who can forget the classic episode where a bunch of high school students that have no real impact on the main characters start an investigation on why they're being served shoddy tea at school? Truely what George Lucas intended the franchise to become in the future. Oh but I kid Clone Wars, great show outside that episode.
@@grantmoore8228 And it just gave one hell of a finale a few weeks ago. Where they explain where Ashoka and Maul were during ROTS. And explained just how close Maul was to upending EVERYTHING in the same film.
Be happy the ship scene wasn’t longer. Apparently in the original draft Lucas had it going on for nearly an hour. Thank god he toned that down. Also from the red letter media review. One criticism I thought was dumb (whether it was a joke or not) that General Grevious is an over the top evil name. In the same franchise with people like names Darth Vader, Darth Tyranus, Darth Maul, and Darth Sideous.
I think all of those names, including Grievous', aren't their real names, they're either Darth titles or just a name they've given themselves, so yeah, why wouldn't they choose something evil and intimidating? And if Grievous is his actual name then, well, this is a galaxy where people are called things like Skywalker so that's hardly an unlikely name here.
"There are Heroes on Both Sides!" See now that would be an interesting spin off. Show us the people that supported the separatists due to the corruption in the senate, show us why Dooku was able to gain so much traction so quickly. But instead we get.....
Two words: EU- Extended Universe. Showing the separatist/trade-federation only sell weapons to system of planets who just want to be independent from the republic. Those planets fearing that the republic would become a tyrannical empire which ironically it does.
@@brianbrush5107 I agree. They did try and portray some Separatists as rational in the episode "Heroes on Both Sides" but then there are other episodes showing them killing these moderates, hiring bounty hunters, using bio weapons on groups that are pacifists, engaging in acts of terrorism, and selling populations into slavery. So... yeah, Separatists are the bad guys. No other way to rationalize that
Wanted to argue that I actually like Anakin desire to protect the Clone Troopers, because I like to see it as Anakin didn’t change, but his normally heroic desire to protect everyone and prevent deaths at all cost drive him to seek greater power. And then when he loses everything, that causes him to snap and become a soulless weapon for the Emperor. It’s not until he realizes he has a son that he has any real motivation again and his protective instincts take over. But of course that’s just MHO.
The MagnaGuards were using electrostaffs, not vibroblades. Anyway, Dooku thought the plan was that he would be arrested by Anakin. General Grievous would get the blame for all of the war crimes committed by the CIS, so Dooku wouldn't be tossed away forever. Ultimately, he thought that he would have a prominent role in the new empire, with a sith army that would take Force sensitive children from their families by force, with Anakin adding legitimacy to the governmental transition as he was a war hero. There's a little more to it, but that's the main gist of it (all of the from this novelization of Revenge of the Sith). Edit: Spelling
@@OmegaX9 Palpatine basically thought that the Rule of Two no longer applied to him, and had zero intentions of having an apprentice that would succeed him.
@@OmegaX9 I don't think Dooku particularly cared about it either. He was a Sith inasmuch as he believed in the great (force users, especially him) using their power to enact (their own particular version of) justice, but not really a true believer in the ways of the Ancient Sith.
You hit it right on the head on Revenge of the Sith it suffered from something in prequels I have coined as "Full Circle Fuck up" They basically wrote themselves into a corner and had to rush to fulfill everything we know is coming in A New Hope.
Interestingly there are actually 2 deleted scenes where Shaak Ti dies. The first where General Grievous kills her and another only animated of Anakin killing her around the kiling of the younglings. That's not all! She dies again in the legends continuity since originally neither of the above were considered canon. This was depicted in the Star Wars: Force Unleashed. As of the current canon Anakin kills her after the younglings while she was meditating.
2-d Grievous is awesome, you can see exactly why he's known as a Jedi killer. 3-d Grievous? From what I remember not so much, I've not watched it in a long time but I'm fairly certain he was the villain they used when they didn't want to undermine the threat of Dooku but still wanted the villain to be defeated by the end.
It's unfortunately a result of the Genndy's team and George Lucas having differing ideas when they saw his design. When Genndy's team saw his concept, they immediately thought "unstoppable horrifying Terminator". When George Lucas saw his design, he thought "mustache-twirling pulp serial villain".
@@SorowFame IKR? Would have been great if they animated film Grievous, the same way as 2D Grievous. I don't need to explain why, since Linkara already explains it perfectly.
@@JayJayM57 By my understanding of Clone Wars, it does kinda suck that 3D Grevious is always the joke from the get go, even before any scenes related to the Battle of Couresant. Bad missed opportunity to bring up that continuity nod, but I guess paying for two voice actors for one chracter would have been too much a bother for a 'kid's show' at the time.
It makes sense that he would go from happy about the pregnancy to fearing about others finding out since he had the nightmare of Padme dying. Maybe Palpatine used the Force to do so and that made him a little paranoid. It also relates to the Clones he wanted to help in the beginning, as he's always been one to want to help. But Obi Wan's attitude towards them as it was happening and his nightmares made him realize how callous the Jedi have become. It's weird that in the comic they changed it to just one of Dooku's hands being sliced instead of both. Could have used force lightning with the other. I for one like Grivious. Yes the original Clone Wars series showed how intimidating he was, but the end had Mace crush his chest and nearly destroyed his real organs. This gave us two things. One is that while it showed how terrifying he is, underneath is a coward who runs when he knows he's going to loose. The other is that he's basically a prototype for what Anakin will become: His four robotic limbs with one lightsaber, but strong mastery of the Force and with barely any emotions left over to distract him.
"Are the younglings taken from the Jedi and put in cages and tortured, forced to accept Sith doctrine?" Well, there was that one episode of The Clone Wars where Cad Bane was kidnapping Force-sensitive children for Sidious...and some younglings later turned into the Inquisitors from Rebels and Jedi Fallen Order.
It's why the clone wars even happened. Being an unstable Jedi in training is one thing, but to do that and become involved in a huge war where you have to watch so many people die, sometimes on your own orders? It's a big factor that pulls on Anakin's instability and empathy
I still remember seeing the 2D cartoon Grievous for the first time. A cold, merciless and silent killer who just breezed through a whole group of Jedi. Definitely something that stays with you 😨
I couldn't agree more on the Grievous. He was so cool and scary in the short clone wars series, the later one while it showed more of him, he wasn't scary there, it was more like "Oh great that mini boss is here again." Ye he was ruthless in battle but he wasn't that scary unlike in his first incarnation where he took on multiple masters at once.
9:01 Actually, Yes Sidious told Dooku the plan was for him to kill Obi-wan and tip Anakin over the edge resulting in Dooku being defeated and captured by Anakin. Then Anakin would become the Supreme Commander of a Sith Inquisitor army with Dooku still as the main apprentice. But the true plan was always for Anakin to release his inner darkness and *murder* Dooku. It’s a very tragic scene in the novelization and you actually feel sorry for Dooku.
About your thoughts on Anakin being concerned for the Clones at the beginning to being a child murderer at the end. Personally I don’t see why that’s necessary. Even discounting the Clone Wars series and the named characters there, these are soldiers Anakin had been fighting alongside for 3 straight years, and Anakin forming attachments while the rest of the Order keeps telling him not to has always been an issue with Anakin. So it makes sense that he’d be concerned with a comrade in arms vs, and I’m sorry if I sound psychopathic here, people he’s never even talked to, regardless of their age. you’d be surprised by some of the lines villains can draw for themselves, especially when they’re as unstable and confused as Anakin is in these early years of his life. And even then, that happened because Palpatine was directing all of Anakin’s rage at the entirety of the Jedi Order, not the clones. We do see that he values his underlings much less in the OT, but many many more years had passed by that point, and those aren’t the Clones in the movies by that point. We can infer that he became much colder and more ruthless over the years. Thoughts?
Here's the issue though. We don't see Anakin fighting alongside any specific clones nor do we know if he built any sort of camaraderie with them. By comparison, we see from just a small interaction between Kenobi and Cody that those two have become buddies and we get the idea that they have fought side-by-side for a long while. Now to be fair, either way I say it kind of works because indeed what you've mentioned about Anakin but in terms of Linkara's point? It still kind of stands since one of ROTS's BIGGEST problems is how sudden Anakin's fall is when something that small would be a good way to subtly show Anakin's transition to getting closer to being like Vader which is the whole point of this movie since it, y'know, shows the actual transformation.
Not sure if this was original trilogy EU or prequel EU, but I do remember reading that Vader’s 501st stormtrooper legion were exclusively clones because he only trusted clone troopers.
Yes, and Anakin as Vader rarely attacks the stormtroopers than he does the officers and admirals that command them (mostly because they make one too many mistakes or are so arrogant that they piss him off). He actually respects the troopers more because they at least obey his orders knowing what will happen if they don't and are willing to fight hard in battle (although they don't possess the expert training of the clones)
The issue is that it's really on the Clone Wars series that firmly establishes that Anakin's true weakness is his constant need to protect those he cares about. We only see his relationship with Padme, and their chemistry is so bad in Attack of the Clones that a lot of people don't make the connection. If it was established in the previous movie that forming bonds with other people is a consistent thing with Anakin, it would give greater context to the concern he shows the clones.
@@chrisossu2070 It really just brings everything back to what Linkara said in his review of AOTC. He's willing to meet the film halfway on some choices but what matters most is what the movie has to stand on its own. Hell it's not even like he gives comics special treatment since in his Final Crisis review he went off on how stupid it was to include major plot details in a separate Superman book when they should've been in the story proper.
One problem I've always had with "Clone Wars" was from the line "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere." It implies that the war is bringing out the worst in both factions, and plays into what I think was intended to be of the theme of the prequels, about what people are willing to sacrifice for the causes and people they care about. But "Clone Wars" just turned the Separatists into just another version of the Empire in its roles and actions, with the Republic generally being unambiguously good, with a few occasional exceptions.
I've been waiting for this and yeah, I love Revenge of the Sith. The movie is awesome because of the lightsaber combat and Ian McDiarmid. And yes, the movie is also huge on memes. There are tons of them.
All of Revenge of the Siths issues are why I like it. Its so hammy and silly at times and very quotable that I cannot hate it. Its' not good but its very entertaining. :P
Vibroblades strike me, from their presence in KOTOR, as pretty antiquated by the time of the prequels, since KOTOR is easily 200+ years in the past from there, iirc
@@repulser93 I know, but that was a different circumstance (also really sad). Reynolds was 84, was shocked by her daughter's death and had a stroke. I remember a congregation member who died in his nineties after his wife died. Now take Padme- she was still young and healthy. They could've said that the birth of her twins was too much for her body. Heck, she was choked and unconscious on a lava planet. That pretty much triggered her labor. Also, wasn't there an official explanation later on about Palpatine using the force to kill her? All good explanations. Like I know it's kind of a nitpick, but it's this Star Wars, I think my nitpick isn't the oddest or most pedantic.
@@katherinealvarez9216 I think the "Palpatine uses the Force to kill Padme" thing is just a popular fan theory made by people trying to rationalize her otherwise completely inexplicable death.
it was supposed to be birth complications caused by Anakin used of the force. a husband beating his pregnant wife was deemed too much and replace with " she lost the will to live."
Just like the Robot Chicken sketch: Doctor Ball: She lost the will to live!?! What, was your degree in poetry, you sorry bunch of hippies? Oh never mind the billions of dollars of medical equipment around us! Why don't we get on our knees and pray?! WE DON'T HAVE KNEES, YOU MOTHER F*CKERS!!
Derek Night True, but even that was done cause Lucas told them to add that in since he NEVER gave the creative team an idea of what he was supposed to be like so Genndy just had to make it up. It was clear that fans like this version of the character, but Lucas had to go “Nope, you need to do my version despite never knowing what it was supposed to be like.” As for whether series isn’t canon, I’m still not sure why it had to be removed. Since the other Clone Wars series never did a reintroduction of his character and the final season never recreated the false kidnapping.
@@dereknight861 The 2003 series is cannon! It was literally referenced in clone wars season 7 via obi-wan: "Corusant is under attack by the separatists!" Anakin asks about Chancellor Palpatine & if he's safe; Obi wan tells him that he is under shaak-ti's protection but we lost contact with her like what happened in the 2003 series! With grievous jamming her contact signals as he kidnapped the chancellor. Heck, Dave Fiolini confirms that in an interview with this quote: "The reason why we didn't show the battle of corusant was because it was already in star wars with tartakovsky's clone wars."
@@thatonea-hole I agree that most of the 2003 series is cannon, at least the major events like Ventress and Grevious's introductions, and the Battle of Courasant. While I do like the 2008 series more, I do see a lot of good and greatness in 2003 and feel we should keep most of that around.
Apparently Lucas didn't know what he wanted grevious to do and just described him as a badass jedi killer - which is what tarkovsky ran with. THIS is what he should of been instead of someone in a command position. An enforcer like maul was.
@@duncananderson2113 It's less embarrassing than it actually sounds. They actually put up one hell of a fight and developed a good strategy to take him on but indeed, the idea is humiliating.
28:00 I like Decker Shado's commenet on this scene - the Jedi are really tone deaf and tactless here. They should've presented it the other way round - that, regretfully, his appointment as a Master will take some more time, like they have to deliberate some more, or receive an approval from the Force or whatever, BUT, in view of his achievements, raw power level and high standing with the chancellor, they're granting him a position on the council right now! A great honor and an unprecedented one for someone of his rank! Congratulations, Ani!
First time I got into Star Wars was through the original Lego Star Wars game on PS2. Playing as Grievous was my favorite part about it, so I can safely say I got into Star Wars mainly because of him. His appearance in Revenge of the Sith felt lackluster to me and it took many years until I found out why.
Obi-Wan was actually right to sense a trap, though he didn't guess who was truly behind it. The fight with Count Dooku was a trap to push Anakin on his way to the dark side by getting him to give in to his anger.
The RotS novelization is genuinely a good book. The opening pages setup RotS superbly and better then the prior movies. You feel the emotion. It paints the trap that is the Clone Wars.
About the 2003 clone wars show, funny anecdote in the commentary for volume 2. Genndy Tartakovsky talked about what the show was suppose to do for preparing Episode III, as George Lucas demand it, stuff like the Coruscant attack, the Grievous character and all, and Anakin becoming a Jedi Knight. So Genndy asked George if he had details about how a padawan become a knight that he can use... he said "no"... The Star Wars universe as always been inconsistant in the movies, and the extended Universe always bring sens and logic. That's why I argue that Lucas is not the real genius of Star Wars, it's a little bit of everyone, Lucas, Irvin Keshner, Lawrence Kassdan, Gary Kurtz, Timothy Zahn, Genndy Tartakovsky, Dave Filloni, JJ Abrams, Kathleen Kennedy, Ryan Johnson, Jon Favreau, and plenty others. It's always have been a commun effort that make Star Wars great, it's even part of his charm, so acting like George Lucas in the only visionary in this is really disrespectfull for all the others.
The DBZ joke made me think about how the prequel's obsession with Anakin's power levels kind of led to the fanbase's obsession with it, which in turn made discussion on how powerful the sequel characters should or shouldn't be REALLY obnoxious Your idea for Dooku remids me of what they did with Darth Maul in Clone Wars.
@@daltonwilliams1723 Remember the reference is to spin-off media so it's not necessarily mattering that Luke does the most Jedi thing ever but rather he didn't just fire a wormhole from his hand or descend from the sky like a Jedi Superman.
"His fate will be the same as ours" is a line that for some reason sounded awkward when I heard it in that scene. For some reason it feels out of place.
Emperor Palpatine going hammy and spooky is the best part of the movie. I recommend seeing Ian McDiarmid read a passage from the Return of the Jedi in Shakespearean verse book.
Things I liked about Revenge of the Sith: Ian McDiarmid as Sidious, Obi-wan and Anakin/Yoda and Sidious's lightsaber duels, the opening scene with the space battle, Order 66, the scene in the Senate with the declaration of the Empire, the ending on Tatioone. Things I didn't like: Dooku being killed off right at the beginning, Grievous(he should have just been killed off in the cartoon series to preserve his dignity), Padme being reduced to such a bit part, her ridiculous death, Anakin's whinyness, the lack of show don't tell, pointless Chewbacca cameo, Darth Vader "NNNNOOOOOO"(the actual transformation though was well done).
I understand your reservations with the Lightsaber fights, but as a guy who loves swords and all their forms, from a technical standpoint, I love the duels in the Prequels. Especially Obi-wan vs Anakin’s in their final fight. Not to say the ones in the OT are bad, but the PT makes heavy use of actual sword techniques, keeping guard during your attacks, repostes, even the spinning includes actual sword flourishes that for the most part cover their backs, resulting in genuinely plausible effective spins (though to someone without Force Powers it’s still not the best move you could do in those situations). It’s still a breath of fresh air considering how many movies and show’s Swordplay tend to wave their swords around like madmen with no rhyme or reason, even Star Wars itself when the Sequel trilogy’s “Sword fights” generally boil down to waving their sabers like baseball bats at their enemies. But that’s just me. What about you?
I dunno, I like it when fight scenes have any kind of weight to them and emotional stakes, which the PT fights often lack in favor of the visual spectacle. Say what you will about the fight choreography in the ST's duels, I'll take TFA's forest battle over the gong show from AotC any day of the week.
See, I always figured that there was some Force nonsense at work in the Prequels' lightsaber fights, and that's why they're so showy. Because if you get really caught up in the flow of the Force as you're fighting, if you're sensing and feeling the Force around you as you fight, trying to anticipate your opponent's moves before they make them, then I have no idea how one expects it to look like a real-life swordfight (to say nothing of Flynning), where you're watching someone's moves and reacting to them on the fly.
My deal with the prequel fights and really any fight scene in a movie always comes down to answering one question. Can I enjoy it for both the story and the spectacle? In my honest opinion, the prequels of course come back with a resounding "No" because the thing is indeed as fights go, they are impressive. The amount of training and practice it took to pull all this off is admirable... but that's all they have going for them. If you're someone who's watching the movies for the story and characters, you're not really gonna find anything all that important and if you particularly aren't someone with that kind of interest in choreography, it won't matter. People forget that fights in films are often telling a story as much as any other scene. This is where we usually get a moment of climax for certain plots, where ideologies clash and conflict but in the prequels? Honestly I think the best example is the Anakin and Obi-Wan duel in the movie and how it compares to the comic and oddly enough the video game tie-in. From a visual standpoint, the fight's beautiful. If you're looking at it for the technical aspect and with the music, it's insane how cool it actually is but from a story perspective? In context of the story, this is a duel between two former friends, one of whom has had their mind corrupted to where they became this fascistic dictator who ended the Jedi Order, an order that has lasted and kept the peace for thousands of years. This should be one of the most emotional duels of the entire saga and certainly the music seems to get it... but we don't see much in the way of emotion. No conversation, no real switch-up of technique to show the emotion that's being put into everything, it's all so perfect and practiced to the point where it feels like a dance. Meanwhile in this comic and the game? There's dialogue, we see ideologies clash as the duel rages, an effort was seemingly put into really hone in on the emotions that are running rampant. Hell TCW in particular shows up the prequels in friggin' SPADES with most of its duels. Now it doesn't mean the duels aren't great from a technical aspect because... I mean, they are. The fight in TPM is friggin' orgasmic with how kinetic it is. But the thing is, they're at their best enjoyed separately because when you try to take story into account otherwise? They fall flat without those emotional stakes.
A minor mistake in the review I should point out here. Grievous's bodyguards weren't using vibroblades. they were using electrostaffs, as seen clearly with the purple electricity on each end of the staff. maybe something to point out in your next top 15 screwups
13:59 - 14:04 #*&damn, Motion Lines, I really could've gone without seeing Anakin's combination of an "O" face and his impression of Tidus from Final Fantasy X.
Considering Palpatine isn't in any real danger from his own apprentice it kind of is a trap. To get Anakin to fight Dooku and further his grooming into the dark side. Dooku becoming Greivous is an amazing idea.
24:30 I remember an interview with Go Nagai the creator of so many Giant Robots anime from the 70's and 80's, he said the most importent thing to show in a TV show about Giant Monsters attacing city is to show the normal people running and hurt , because otherwise it just big fists fight. I think Linkara have a point we need to see the normal people suffer if they want us to think the empier is bad
"Yeah, they kidnapped the most powerful head of state of their sworn enemies to lure two random Jedi into a trap!" ... ... Yes, or rather, one *exact* Jedi and a potential stabilizing influence who might mess it up but best they can do. The novelization does make a big, big deal out of Dooku seeing his dreams of an Empire as he'd understand it on the way to being realized, before he realizes with the blades crossing, and going against him, no, Sidious means for him to die here -- rather, specifically, however you could expect this to happen, for Anakin to have a saber to him, beaten and helpless, and then just go ahead and do it. ...No, the theatrical movie doesn't give us all that.
I didn’t do this when this vid was fresh; oh well. Most memorable quote from this movie: Palpatine: The whole opera scene. McDiarmid commands the camera, every word slides right off his tongue, and the score for that scene is perfect.
So apparently, the reason for Grievous's change from badass to cheesy was due to Lucasfilm not giving Tartakovsky enough information about the character. They only had two bits of info provided to them; his concept art, and the fact that he killed Jedi and collected their lightsabers. His overall personality was something that wasn't provided. So Tartakovsky did what Tartakovsky does, and went the badass route.
Anakin wanted to be a master because the rank will grant him access to the Jedi secrets hidden away only masters have access to. He believes the secrets will help him learn how to prevent people he cares about from dying.
Will you eventually review Luke Cage: Hero for Hire volume 1 number 9. This is the issue where Luke Cage tried to beat up the Fantastic Four to steal their jet so he can go to Latveria with him joining a Doom Bot revolution against Dr Doom...with the reason Luke came there and doing all of this being to get 200 Dollars from Dr Doom
The thing is, Grievous has an INCREDIBLE, extremely compelling and tragic backstory... that was printed in a magazine article and never used in ANYTHING
That opening scene is perfect for Anakin's character. He's not some Saturday morning cartoon villain who is one dimensionally evil and does bad things for the sake of it and doesn't care about other people. He's a tragic hero who's tragic flaw was that he cares so much about the people he cared about that he would do anything for them and justify it to himself by telling himself that it was to protect them and for their benefit because he feared losing the people he cared about like his mother. Caring about people connected to him is why he fell to the dark side in the first place. Say what you want about execution but the one things that the movies made clear and is consistent with his character in the originals is that he would break the rules and even betray anyone if it meant saving the people he cared about. Most of the time we see Darth Vader in the original trilogy us after he lost everything and has no one left that he cares about until he meets Luke, his son, a person who was willing to withstand torture and almost certain death for him that caused this to kick back in.
I think this is the first comic I ever read I don't have any nostalgia for it and I consider Infinity Gauntlet and the MCU for the reason why I started to get into comics
I should probably say this now and here, I think I prefer the Sequel Trilogy over the previous trilogies not simply for I watched them in theatre. I simply connect more to them personally be it through their characters, villainous faction (both First And Final Orders), and etc. Now, I don't consider any of these films perfect, far from it, but even though I acknowledge criticism (particularly in relation to Episode 9) and I don't allow it to hurt my experience. I say this because I feel like I'm in a minority amongst a larger fandom majority who will mock and criticize ever bit of these films for any reason. But I can't allow the opinions of others to weigh down so heavily upon my heart and must simply like what I like instead of feeling. So, I'll continue to enjoy all three of these films equally and fairly as they deserve.
@@rogersstinson4019Well, I guess Lucas really shouldn’t have given Gennedy just a character design and a simple “Jedi Killer” description, because all it did was have the Clone Wars create a far more imposing and threatening character compared to the far lamer Grevious that never goes beyond “underwhelming”. In this case, Lucas’s idea for Grevious was and still is a lame and crap idea.
