Star Wars: Squadrons made a subtle change to the TIE fighter that breaks decades of visual continuity. Why make the change? Let's find out! Credits: Brought to you by over 200 amazing supporters on Patreon! / echenry
What's better is that "no one" has spotted it in 40 years. It's a bit like Han Solo shooting Vader in Episode V. Each person watching it comes up with a different explanation.
@@JonatasMonte - Nah, this is OLD news. The game TIE Fighter (1994) caused all sorts of ruckus when it corrected the internal view. I'm sure it was noticed before then too.
i once read that the interior of the tie cockpit had a gyro so the pilot was always upright. most of the shots we see are the tie banking port and starboard for the gyro could be swiveling them around?
I'm pretty sure they mention they made sure our TIEs are up to lateste Imperial standards and that our loadouts are't standard for TIEs in the game. Could be Post-Endor standards was simply better viewport orientation.
While it's a continuity mistake in ANH, it wasn't just an accident: The miniatures with the point-aligned windows were designed and built first, and the cockpit set was built to match. When filming with it though, they found that the central strut was too distracting / got in the way of the camera, and so they rotated the window. [according "Creating the Worlds of Star Wars: 365 Days" by John Knoll]
I don't get why they couldn't just rotate the windows in the miniatures then. I always had the image they look on the outside the same as in the inside. Maybe aesthetically it looks better that way inside and that way outside.
It was in the 90s Usenet groups that listed continuity errors in the films that first illustrated this to many fans. I’ll say that that was probably when I was made aware
Yeah this is why I can only play ROTJ maps in Battlefront II with the stormtrooper armor, since they don't have the stunt / ANH helmets to choose from.
@@480JD In those cases they were modified variants of the standard TIEs. In the X-Wing books there is even an appearance by a shielded TIE Interceptor at one point, cited as being upgraded with the shield.
I actually never noticed. But now that i see it, i try to make up a little bit of head canon: There probably were several different factories for Ties, maybe even dispersed troughout the galaxy, so different factories could have different window orientations. This is similar to Warhammer, where the same Vehicle can look a bit different, depending on its building Forgeworld (factory planet). This explains the difference between games/shows/films. The difference between inside and out, e.g. in Episode 4, could be explained just like mentioned in the Video.
That's the same situation during WWII, where different tank manufacturing locations often had their own minor "upgrades" added onto the models they put out.
That's a good headcanon. mine is just that Titan Squadron had some modifications to their standard TIEs that were approved because of their reputation and how closely they worked with Admiral Sloane.
@@ericstahmer720 I like your idea too. We've seen that the Empire uses people to not just fly but build their TIE fighters. They're not being build by droids in factories, meaning that there's bound to be modifications (and errors). But in-game I think your headcanon is practically official canon thanks to the few mentions of Admiral Sloane.
The game also takes place at the end or after the defeat of the Emperor... resources could be a problem for factories etc. I mean the Germans late of WW2 had a much lesser quality on the machines they made (same with ww1 due to blockades) due to lack of resources, manpower and other things. There could be an argument for less than stellar quality, lack of unity, lack of skilled enough workforce or whatever. I do think they should make them uniform I have never liked that about the movies. Just pick one and go with it.
"I know it's just a game... but it's a star wars game" Me at the christmas party standing on the kitchen counter clutching my copy of lego star wars the comete saga
Ngl I like the TIE in this cockpit orientation, if push comes to shove we can chalk it up to the standards that TIE fighters have been modified to under Admiral Sloan (as mentioned in this game). If TIE now have mechanisms for self preservation and have proton torpedos in a post endor timeline, they can have an altered viewport that only applies to the TIE/LN and only that TIE variant.
In The Last Jedi, the window orientation in the First Order TIE cockpit is point aligned instead of edge aligned. But in Star Wars Resistance, the orientation in the cockpit of both First Order TIE and Special Forces TIE are correctly positioned, the windows are point aligned, matching the exteriors.
@@wolfsoldner9029 get real! These people work their butts off. As EC said, the error has been replicated by generations of art designers, like an unspoken tradition. And we are discussing a space fantasy for 13-year-olds. Don't talk about people not doing their job.
Maybe TIE cockpits viewport can rotate so that if a strut is obscuring the pilots vision they can alter the angle. It's a simple mechanism which could aid with docking or long range tracking.
Yeah I like this idea the most. Even if it doesn't rotate mechanically per-se, there might be enough tolerance in mounting the windows that different squadrons have a choice to offset their windows a bit to their liking. So in the repair bay of a Star Destroyer they can modify the window arrangement to suit different commander's preferences.
Actually, a window purely decorative. TIE-pilots have high-tech helmets linked to a multiple of visual sensors on the lacket, giving them a 360-degree view.
@@ВладимирКалинин-б5я I play this on VR, and I so wish we have that in the game. Every time I try to track my target with my head while flying in a TIE, I just ended up staring at ceiling and walls of the cockpit. The New Republic fighters have clear advantage in situational awareness with their bubble canopies.
I was debating with myself on if I was going to admit to this, but yeah, I never noticed it either, though I've never played any of the combat games, just Kotor and a little Swotor (but not the fighter parts).
Never truly noticed If I were to blame anyone I blame poor manufacturing their tie fighter factories all over the Galaxy so they do it one way while another does it another way But I do remember adjusting a tie fighter window I my action fleet toy From galoob
That.....actually makes sense and there is precedence for this sort of thing IRL where the same type of Aircraft or Tank or any other vehicle produced in different factories would have minor differences.
how is that "poor manufacturing"? minor differences in designs through different factories are a thing. its mutch more likely that there are 2 schools of thought on how the windows should be orientated.
I'm a simple Star Wars fan when it came to ships or any other vehicles. (No matter if it's legends or cannon) I see an EC Henry video for Star Wars: I click.
Perhaps they were trying to fix the goof in a way which made sense? Personally, my head canon has always been that the window can be rotated by the pilot as needed.
Huh never noticed this. Crazy and cool that they've purposefully kept this error all these years. I thought you were going to talk about the rear window in the Tie fighter. Interestingly also something we've only ever seen in rebels.
2:59 "However, spatial continuity MIGHT just work differently in a galaxy far far away" I don't which I like better : Henry giving ultra-in depth and all encompassing theories to explain small incoherence in Star Wars, or Henry casually giving the "space magic" bullshit explanation.
What's more interesting on all of this is that the original "Tie Fighter" videogame to which squadrons plays homage, uses the other cockpit configuration for the Tie Fighter interior.
I think the reason they had to make a choice is because the fighters have full VR cockpits, which means that they need to runder a full cockpit and fighter instead of just making a HUD that could be rendered onto the screen. As for in universe, TIE pilots are known to modify their own fighters, so many TIE/LN could have had adjustments like the window, while newer Interceptors were not modified as much.
This seems like the most likely culprit. Trying to somehow change the model on the fly to adjust for the view, instead of just picking the iconic view from the pilot seat, especially as this is the view you're going to actually noticing.
Personally if I had to pick having a line across my vertical or across my horizontal, I'd prefer it across the horizontal to get better visibility when I'm pulling up or down.
Good catch! I’d noticed this back when they released the first vids of Squadrons, because I was at the time creating my own game ready model of the TIE Fighter.
In one of their dev interviews they actually talk about how they modified the interiors and exteriors in several ships. They wanted to approach as if they were actually building working ships and made decisions to make changes that would make sense to actually build while trying to keep the "feel" of the old designs. All in all, I think they did great.
"Oh my god, what a superficial topic to get hung up on. Who even notices these things?" He commented after being riveted and intrigued for the whole 3 minute and 40 second video 😃
But a simple one could be different factories cause small variations in the final product, this has happened in history with tanks in WW2 and such, small upgrades or slight changes usually barely noticeable unless you're looking for them, and it would explain away all the slight variations across the films shows comics and games that have small visual differences
EXACTLY!!! I don’t get the fans who are so hung up on everything having an explanation, they simply cannot accept a continuity error in filming. There’s quite a few big ones (Giant man being in two places at once, for example) in Avengers: Endgame, but it doesn’t stop me from crying every time Cap says the line!
Maybe they did it so that so you have both versions while at the same time each ship's cockpit remains consistent with it's exterior. Also makes the TIE Fighter and Interceptor cockpits different from each other. Also I have to say I prefer the edge aligned version. In the point aligned cockpit the frame blocks side to side field of view slightly.
I always guessed the reason for this was that the exterior look had been locked in earlier in the film making process, but when they did the cockpit interior shots, they realised there was a ruddy great vertical bar blocking the pilots (and audiences) view so they just rotated it to have a less obstructed view for shots of them firing on the falcon etc
As a programmer I can say that changing the window rotation depending on where you look from would be hard to implement smoothly, and if it was possible it would lower the performance. To do it easily the player1 (you) would have a different camera than the other players which would again be a lot of work to implement for the networking, then the different cameras would render different windows.
You'd only have to do that if you're planning on implementing splitscreen. Otherwise you can just swap put the window model client-side depending on the camera's location.
@@Arrowtomahknee They changed the interior shots because the panels where too distracting. This is stated in that book Creating the World Of Star Wars 365 days or whatever it was called. See here: www.pcgamesn.com/star-wars-squadrons/review and here is an update mk0uploadvrcom4bcwhj.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/star-wars-squadrons-tie-fighter-cockpit.jpg
After receiving feedback from pilots after the Battle of Endor, Imperial engineers fixed the window orientation. Had this been done sooner, the Empire would have won!
This is the way I see it: Motive: Goes through the trouble of correcting a long running visual discontinuity in the Star Wars films for Star Wars: Squadrons. Star Wars fans: REEEEEEEEEEEEEE...
Just wanted to add In the rebels short “Property of Ezra Bridger” you can see the cockpit from the pilots view when he tries to shoot Ezra and it’s actually lined up vertically as shown from the outside. Just a little tidbit of info haha
@@singmysin - The Star Wars galaxy has an atmosphere. That's why sound carries, ships bank and also why Han, Chewy and Leia were able to leave the Falcon with just breathing units instead of needing full body space suits.
@Rising Horizon Gaming if there are inconsistencies in some of the movies and games in this fake space that what are you even complaining about it shouldn't be a problem oh it doesn't echo ok so the engine they're using probable doesn't allow it since sound requires other objects in the vicinity to bounce off of to create said echo
The inside of the Tie interceptor cockpit actually meets the exterior. I believe that the models are the same inside and out as you can see the characters inside their cockpits from another fighter.
Rodney Payne the cockpit windows could also be shot through with a hand blaster in the old legends too. Rebels is canon enough to prove TIEs can be landed on the wings....if they were the squat ones from lothal.
Hopefully not since tie models have never been consistent 100% even in the original trilogy and this can be chalked up to simple pilot modifications or factory alterations across the many factories across the galaxy
@@Youda00008 it sounded like kind thing that would be complained about. Anyway in rogue squadrons do you get to fight a ssd super star destroyer something i dreamed about an epic fleet battle where you the play destroyer key turrets and deflector sheid hard points engines.
If you look at other TIE/LNs in the Imperial Hangar on the top racks, they have the correct orientation (like the TIE Interceptor). They most likely made this change to the ones the players use in order to better differentiate the cockpits of the TIE/LN and the TIE/IN. I personally prefer the cockpit orientation of the TIE/IN.
The workers were probably drunk when assembling the windows in the factory and the Empire/FO just coincidentally used those flawed fighters during screentime.
So, the TIEs have a tradition of inconsistency. That's a nice attention to detail to make the windows in a specific way even though they logicaly shouldn't be like that. I hope they never change that. Since you mentioned the Imperial Star Destroyers from Rebels, does anyone remember how awful they made them in this God forsaken show? Besides looking ridiculous with the enlarged tower and fucked up proportions they even gave them wrong turrets. The port and starboard turrets were the octuple turrets from Imperial-IIs, not the double ones of the Imperial-Is. I hoenstly think Filoni was taking the piss with Rebels...
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Filoni is arrogant. He disnissed the work of every other Expanded Universe author regarding the Clone Wars, retcons at will and dismisses the film continuity. He has written some good stories but his overall performance is sub par.
Having worked on Star Wars games for 14 years at LucasArts (including doing most of the cockpit art for X-Wing and TIE Fighter), I can tell you this movie TIE Fighter cockpit continuity error was maddening for us. In the film, the interior cockpit frame would block the action the middle of the screen if they'd been consistent with the exterior, so they rotated it, probably thinking "no one will notice." For those of us making the games, we're faced with "Should you be faithful to the INTERIOR or the EXTERIOR?" No matter what you do, you're going to be inconsistent with one of them. Which works better for gameplay? Which one will fans be more upset about?
Definitely not where I thought this video was going to nitpick. Figured it was going to be something mechanical to gameplay that actual means something, rather than what is essentially an easter egg.
This game clearly takes place right after ROTJ. This is not the first order, this is the remnants of the empire. I think Disney and EA have taken a hint that people "REALLY" don't like Disney era stuff. And Squadrons really benefits from that.
Very interesting indeed. It shows the difference in using sets for interiors and models for exteriors vs in games and CGI TV shows where the interiors and exteriors can be part of the same 3D model.
The Tie Fighter game had windows aligned point horizontally. But then that series of games changed lore too. It made Tie Fighters have no shields (you can see shield hits on Tie Fighters in A New Hope, particularly the 4 Ties vs the Millennium Falcon scene, shots that would have otherwise just missed but hit something in the exact same way as they do when they hit the rebel fighters and the Millennium Falcon)
I love the B-Wings but they are too big, slow and dumb for a PvP, there is a reason why you couldn't play them on x-wing vs tie fighter i always hated the Z-95 and the gunboat but I miss the tie advanced
True, but the B-wings could be a great addition to the fleet battles, taking out the capital ships, but you really have to rely on your wingmates to defend you. I'm wondering if they will bring out a Tie Defender DLC as well.
@@delaorden You could play as B-wings in the X-wing vs. Tie Fighter expansion, Balance of Power - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-01gqjxOL6i4.html
Imagine how much nicer the Tie Fighter would be to pilot if you had one single piece bubble window in the front or had a circular frame instead of Octagonal.
the thing about rebels and the computer animation: they probably use the same model with a rendered interior for both exterior and interior shots, by placing the virtual camera is different spots. so it makes sense for them to be harmonized, unlike in film where interior sets and exterior models are separate objects also: the interior cockpits in Star Wars TIE Fighter (1994) and point aligned to match the proper exterior.
Interesting, oddly enough Tie Fighter on PC has the Tie /Ln cockpit interior match with the exterior dessign. I also saw it matching in certain old EU comic books like Empire Volume II. It's strange that top level cannon material retains this inconsistency when it has been retconned in other media. Not that it breaks everything for me at least, and it really is a curious detail to point out.
Yes, I am familiar with that game and it felt more natural to me that it be point aligned. Point aligned polygons look sort of uglier and it goes with the character of the Empire.
My headcanon to explain this is that the "windows" are actually viewscreens, and the struts are simply aligned differently on each side to increase stability throughout. So the outside would be an armored panel with points aligned, and the inside would be a more natural oriented array of screens with the edges aligned.
One "explanation" to try and stand with -(especially since you gave the opening for it), is exactly what you said; a weird way the windows look different from each view at the same time, is it's actually a thicker structure than reported to be, and somehow, without distortion of the view, is indeed one way inside, while the other outside. Which means, it's not really a window, but really, an interesting and enormous 2-way monitor ..providing limited extra shielding for the pilot. Let's see what others think about this.
I never noticed that oddity in the movies before, that's neat. I could see some logic to making it physically consistent though on the other hand I raise you the cockpit from Tie Fighter being movie exterior aligned for some random reason.
As a kid I did a talk on Star Wars with some help with an old friend - a course I was doing when I changed primary schools, it helped at the time a lot with my vocabulary and secular nature - but as said Kid, I imagined that this was because the Pilots sat in at an angle, to adjust primarily to the change in gravity when exiting a carrier or star destroyer. This was ofc ignoring the Kenner Hotline, as that had obvious cuts to make it more viable In anycase I think it's charming at what lengths other people notice these details
There were at least twelve variations of M4 Sherman Tanks as changes were made either to speed production or improve performance based off field reports. This is true of all WW2 era vehicles and military craft in general. I reckon the closest real world equivalent to the Tie Fighter is the Sherman or the T34. Both were mass produced, weren’t the most powerful or armored, but were capable of operating well in a wide array of theaters. It doesn’t matter that you’re not the best, if you can deploy a squadron of decent fighters and the enemy can’t you’ve probably won.
In lore idea: Sienar fleet systems was producing these fighters at such a rapid pace that production of these crafts ran into errors at the factories and the Empire just never bothered to change them.
