I think it could have lasted a minute, perhaps two. The Dominion fleet it fought in “A Call To Arms” was probably about 200+ ships. Granted, nowhere near as much firepower in that fleet. If DS9 could hold off that fleet for 5 minutes or so, I figure the Borg controlled Federation fleet would need at least a minute to punch though it’s defenses.
@@DLordSadow The Dominion fleet wasn’t connected and acting as essentially one unit like the Starfleet ships were. So I’m not disagreeing with you by any means, but this is one area where I think even the Dominion wouldn’t have stood a chance against Starfleet.
It was impressive how the space dock held off 300 Starfleet ships. I can imagine the station's commander giving the order to fire indiscriminately and protect earth at all costs.
Actually it was the Proebert Station that replaced Earth Space Dock One. Conceivably, the original Earth Space Dock One would have some defensive phaser banks. It would seem entirely illogical and inane for Space Dock One to not have any defensive systems at all. Especially given A) the Xindi War (I know it wasn't in the writers mind in the movies but lets assume canon of the various series), B) Earth-Romulan War and C) Klingon & Romulans with cloaking technology. These would have been implemented sometime by the time the station was completed. Remember the whole TOS era. They have to also remember, it was just a "century" ago that Earth was attacked by Xindi directly. So besides whatever orbital defense systems on Earth or around it. The Space Dock One would have some. Albeit, it might not be entire phaser arrays quite like the Galaxy. Later ones might be equipped but to have such a prime target for an enemy to attack would be inane to have zero. It might be enough to fight a similar number of starships of Kirk movie era. That many much newer, probably not. Even with upgrades, the power plant would be about maxed out and might handle a fight up to maybe similar number of Excelsior, Ambassador, and some Galaxy class ships at last refit. By 2400, it would likely only handle maybe 50-100 ships of the era in Season 3 of Picard and their new ships in the fleet. Earth Space Dock One also wouldn't necessarily be as heavily weapon equipped as maybe some of the Spacedock class starbases in other locations where it would be be at greater risk of attack given Earth Space Dock One being augmented with all of the rest of Earth orbital defense and local fleet around Earth. It would have something, even possibly some kind of shield emitter like the Galaxy class had by TNG series era.
To me, it seems that the station was trying hard to disable ships, not destroy them outright. If the station fully unleashed like it would against enemy ships, the vast majority of starfleet would be wiped out. One or the other or both crippled or destroyed works for the Borg. DS9 had the advantage of rapid, indiscriminate targeting and firing with little worry of hitting any of their own.
If you look at the Enterprise F just after Spacedock is disabled, and they're turning toward earth, you can see some pretty severe damage has been inflicted by Spacedock
@@KampingKilloch Lets remember, what was orbiting Earth in season 3 of Picard, that was Proebert Station not Earth Space Dock One. The Earth Space Dock One became the Starfleet fleet museum. ESD One would have been destroyed not merely damaged by that many starships from 2400 era. That ESD One from Kirk's era is just not going to hold up to that much from starships with a magnitude of an order more powerful phasers and torpedoes than those in Kirk's era. Even with improved shields and weapons upgrades in Enterprise-C / TNG era, it would still have a hard time. Maybe at best 150 starships but 300 of them of 2401 timeframe is just unlikely. That many would have destroyed ESD One. The power plant can only be upgraded so far and eventually need a newer (and also bigger) space dock and also upgraded weapons learning from the dominion war and such since.
I mean, if you think about it, earth spacedock might have lasted even longer if it wasn't also using power to keep up the planetary shield. To last as long as it did while keeping a shield around the entire planet, is no small feat, in my opinion. Plus, it also took out quite a few ships on its own. You can even see some being disabled or destroyed in a few scenes.
I could be wrong but I think it was the other way around. The station wasn't providing the shield to Earth; Earth was providing the shield to the station. A planetary shield would be powered and projected from the surface; not a satellite. The station was just a convenient target to focus all fire on to stress the planetary shield and bring it down. Plus their immediate secondary objective would have been to disable the station, anyway, so it couldn't continue to fire on the fleet.
My favorite Spacedock moment is when Kirk jacks the Enterprise and thr Excelsior tries to pursue. Her captain orders 1/4 impulse. In ST universe, that would be about 1/16 light speed. So, buddy ordered the helm to punch it up to almost 42 million mph...inside a station less than 2 miles across.🤣
What most people seem to be missing is the incredible shield system, which isn't Spacedock, but Earth's. You can see the grid reflecting and converging in the shootout sequence. Whereas DS9 depended only on it's main shields, due to the diatance from Bajor.
No, it seems Spacedock is producing the shield for earth, that's why when spacedock fell, the earth shield fell. Maybe earth was transmitting enegery up to spacedock to help a little, but Spacedock was still the one producing the shield for earth.
@@mastere6115 Seems to me an obvious flaw by whoever wrote this episode if that's the case, considering Spacedock was shown disabled by the whale probe in pretty short order over 110 years earlier in Star Trek IV?
@@mastere6115 Spacedock fell because the fleet eventually overstressed and overwhelmed the shield. It doesn't much matter if the shield was being projected from Earth or Spacedock, but I definitely left the episode with the impression it was Earth's shield -- not Spacedocks.
In the Destiny novel series spacdock type stations seem to be able to hold up against a single Borg cube. Roughly equally matched. That would roughly fit with how esd did against the fleet.
My guess is that the Spacedock of _Picard_ is basically made of reactors. Since Earth kept getting attacked by everyone and their Hive Mother someone finally got off their asses and built something capable of defending the Federation capital. Huh, Starfleet is capable of learning. Oh, wait, they linked all their computers together, so I spoke too soon.
@@LukewarmEnthusiast except the Control incident and all mention of the Discovery's involvement as well as its fate having been catapulted into the 32nd century were wiped from Starfleet records and classified as shown from dialog between Spock and Pike in one of the very early episodes of Strange New Worlds. So it's highly unlikely that Admiral Shelby, Admiral Picard or any other 24th century officer would know about that for it to serve that lesson unfortunately.
Well, just because ESD is the only type of station we've seen thus far doesn't necessarily mean it's the *only* one if it's kind. I'd think stations like that or of equal power would be positioned in orbit of every major Federation world. At least in my head canon😅
Andoria Spacedock (Shran Station...?) Vulcan Spacedock (Sarek Station...?) Tellar Spacedock (Gral...?) And they don't necessarily all have to be the same design/class as Earth's - just suitably large Lol
That's how I imagine it. That at the very least there is a spacedock like Earth's above the major federation powers or founding member states. I always thought that when star bases were mentioned in trek in the movies or TV shows, that they were like Earth space dock.
I love both space docks, and really like seeing both of them in Picard. I hope we see them again and the future especially as we journey towards the Deep Space Nine area of revisiting the best of Star Trek.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and very well informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and form fully provided on every aspect and function of this most fabulous space station with in the Startrek universe indeed👌.
It was one of the things I really liked in the Star Trek Armada games. Assaulting a Starbase is NOT easy. You need to have tons of battleships, rushing it with small ships is suicide.
Not gonna lie, Spacedock One being turned into the fleet museum kinda surprised me. I half expected it to be used to build the new Spacedock given the lack of resources Starfleet seemed to have.
@Kyle Yet the entire fleet was only 300-ish ships. They had a lot more during the Dominion War, and it makes no sense that they'd scrap all of the remaining ships.
@@chrisdufresne9359 To be fair, what we are shown is all the Starfleet Ships within Earth’s immediate vicinity, Sector 01. The Federation is a Very Large Territory, and would take years to fully cross from end to end, so chances are there are still many thousands of those Classic Starfleet Ships doing their thing out and about the Federation, beyond what we see here.
@Beuwen the Dragon They specified that the ENTIRE fleet was gathered for Fleet Day to show off the unified technology doohicky. The entire fleet being in one place explains why Geordi was against the celebration. Plus, Geordi specifically said that the Enterprise D was the only ship in the fleet without the linked controls.
So, I can say with all seriousness that, though I do like a number of Star Trek ship designs, and ships usually make Star Trek what it is, I'm also very much a fan of space stations, and the Federation Space Dock has been one of my favorite s among them. Sure, DS9 is iconic itself, as the central locale of the whole program it bears the name of, and Babylon 5 looks cool, too, but I've seen the numerous films many times, and thus seen Space Dock repeatedly, so rest image has become ingrained in my mind. Nice to get to see something dedicated to it, and it's history. Nice job!😊
I think the most probable cause of how it stood up to that amount of punishment for so long was it was most likely given an overhaul from the tech Janeway brought back from the future to beef up its defences more. How it was able to be rebuilt so quickly? I am going to assume Starfleet pulled out all the stops from every corner of its territories to start rebuilding it in chunks and delivered to Earth.
I'd also add that the exterior was finished within a year, but there could easily have been a lot of interior reconstruction that needed to be done, after the minimum structural and defensive features were rebuilt.
Now slap a few warp nacelles at the bottom, rotate it 90°, and take an ESD-type out for galactic exploration. Make a Galaxy class look pathetic. 😁 "Mah-ron county?" "Marlon county?" Dude, ILM is in muh-RYN County (Marin Co.) just north of San Francisco. Beautiful place, love that I work in that county a few days per month.
So Space dock is 5,795 meters which means the if the UNSC Infinity was parked next to it they would be almost the same length. such a good looking design even the mass effect universe had its own version called Omega
Looking at the how the Earth Spacestock pretty much standing up well enough against the entire Starfleet, what Starfleet should do: Build a warp capable Earth Spacedock. Maybe just use the top of mushroom as its saucer section.
Well, they kinda did with the Federation Headquarters in Star Trek Discovery. The whole station warped to Earth to help with evacuations. Though that station is nowhere near the size of Spacedock
DS9 was Cardassian in design- so it's a tank from the Cardassian Central Command. Earth Spacedock (ESD), is Starfleet's version for sure. It does seem like it needs more phaser and torpedo placements tho after seeing 'The Last Generation'
The Nor type stations were actually secondary installations used for second line support and administration. The Cardassians have much bigger stations. There was a station designed for the DS9 finale, like Cardassia's Spacedock, that was something like 20 kilometers tall and 10 km wide.
Thought the video would go more into how the ESD defensive and offensive capabilities survived the 300 or so starship barrage it undertook for what seemed like hours, days, etc. in defense. If a space station can undergo that level of bereavement, then why can't Starfleet engineer starships (at least battle cruisers) at that level or sufficient levels of survivability?
@First Last understood and saw that. In other videos on the breakdowns of starship classes they do a great job of going through the offensive and defensive tech and the engineering behind it. Was expecting the same in this situation, especially given the onslaught. It just wasn't and imho that's why I felt the video was lacking, comparatively.
@@davidwagner3170 I don't think there is anything. It's not like DS9 where there was a whole show based on it. Spacedock shows up comparatively rarely. He can't even talk about the internals of the stations because we, frankly, don't really know. We've seen an admirals room in one, I think, and the interior of two of the docking bays. I'd love some more details myself but there just isn't anything.
@First Last Never knew growing up that there were officials guides, schematics, and books that broke down all the class starship. I'm 45 yo, but yeah... they have all that in full detail. Given that the officials are published and canon --- don't own any personally but you can web search--- anyways, they exist and are canon. Starbases are also canon and lore, so shouldn't they be narrated in detail, somewhere? If others know, please share
Thank you. That explains why Space dock was so heavily armed. Its not the original space dock. It was my understand that when the original space dock was constructed, the offensive capabilities were limited at the demand of United Earth Government (civilian) cause they didnt want a giant gun in space pointing down at them if StarFleet tried to overthrown United Earth.
The funny thing is SpaceDock is now the Starfleet Museum! Thanks Adam for a great Narrative! A very Shroomish one BTW! 😉 BTW, how many times have you said "Eighten-Prime" in this bloody Video! Sheesh! 😁
@@xedanis101 Reminds me of what I did teaching Middle School Social Studies, to see if the class was paying attention. Of course I threw out some Nerf balls as well! 😉
@Doug Dennis I did similar in my last call center job! I had a motorized nerf blaster and if things were "too quiet" I'd start random nerf fights. Good times.
I always wanted more ESD based stuff in STO. I would also love to a type of base builder/station builder game set in Star Trek. I know there was an RTS type game a long time ago
The “ships of the line” calendar showed Spacedock being constructed by starships using tractor beams to move giant pieces of the station into place. Maybe the station can be broken down into smaller components to be moved to other sites. Would explain the presence of other similar Spacedocks in remote regions of the Federation. Sections are built off site then tractored in and assembled later.
Hm, I wonder what's the background behind the station where the different sized doors for the Enterprise A versus Enterprise D are located (likely the same)?
As a founding member of the United Federation of Planets, presumably the seat of the President of the Federation (and other Federation legislative bodies), and home to Starfleet Command, Earth's main station would have to be suitably large to show how big a deal this Federation is. And as hub of Earth's defences, suitably powerful enough to put up and manage a good fight.
One thing that bugged me (LOL, one thing!) about the whole Borg assimilation thing is it was supposed to affect every individual around the age of 25 (whos brain biology could be effected) gets assimilated. Are you telling me that there were no Starfleet personnel on board Spacedock (or even Earth) that could have taken control just like they did with the fleet?
Great video. I think you meant Luna class vessels and not Titan class since Riker's Titan was established to be one of the Luna class and not a class of its own. Based on its registry number 80102, it was the third starship of the class in fact.
Couldn't the ESD-1 be capable of achieving warp speed by itself in the same way the lunar mining colony was able to achieve warp-1 speeds in Star Trek: Enterprise?
starbase 74 was supposed to be a very big version of spacedock like double the size though, space class station is my fav then starbase 47 from the books looks cool
'Look , a massive orbital platform to defend Earth. Quick let us attack Earth by flying past it.' . 'Ah Sir , perhaps we could attack the planet from the other side instead ?' Nonsense ! ' .. Space Logic .
Spock was the Captain of the Enterprise during the training mission. He did step aside for Admiral Kirk to assume command once the Enterprise was put on active duty to deal with KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
it's huge, inconceivably huge... In case of an accident implying abandon of the orbit, this thing falling on earth - although in pieces - would cause a near mass extinction event: the atmosphere attrition would be not enough to reduce in smaller pieces the whole thing. [EDIT] Would have been better mooring this behemoth in a Lagrange point rather than in Earth orbit.
this just got me thinking, the Genesis Planet regenerated Spock bakc to life, what what about all the other dead cadets and crewman who died during the battles with Khan who were also shot into space toward the mutara nebula/genesis? howcome now one went bakc for them? how come Scotty never went back for his nephew Peter? somebody answer me that
Space Station One. As apposed to Deep Space _?_ Or SpaceStation _?_. Space Dock USED to refer only to the ships docked inside the station. Not sure when that changed terminology, for ST1,2,3,4 ...etc to then be called SD. Do you watch all the incantations and read the books or just read the stuff some source puts in front of you?
I don't like the new CGI version of Space Dock. The real model version we saw in Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock is the best in my opinion. It's what made me a Star Trek fan when I first saw the movie as an 8 year old!
One of my peeves of our beloved Star Trek has always been defense. Particularly planetary defense. With the tech we started seeing in TNG why wouldn't Earth be surrounded by huge powerhouse space stations... Or giant extremely overpowered weapon platforms. Like why not 857 Deep Space Nines? Yeah it doesn't make great stories to have something untouchable by enemies but they could have made Earth that way and all the fighting takes place elsewhere. That's what happened 99 percent of the time anyway lol. In reality the technology and resources that the Federation had by the time of Picard and company should have made them a monstrous superpower that no one would ever directly take on 9r go to war with.
