Starship Troopers | Canadians First Time Watching | Movie Reaction | Movie Review 

That's nice to know :)

Man willing to forgive (accidental) headshot. Woman willing to love the guy inside the horribly maimed head. A match made in Klendathu! :)

Awesome!

Nice story for the grandkids. Met granny by headshoting me! :P

"Son, your mother blew my head off. I knew it was love at first, um.....*ahem."

It was great! :D

I'm gonna have to use that next time I have a female over (Which may be a long time from now).

Mario Party and Chill?

@@alanwake5696 Step one towards that goal is to stop using the word "female". It was already a kinda weird word to use when we have both "woman" and "girl" to choose from, but thanks to incels a lot of women find it a red flag these days.

@@korganrocks3995 it was tongue in cheek self deprecating humor. And the female thing comes from those of us who were in the military. I appreciate the sentiment, but not interested in taking any advice from a faceless name on the internet.

aiming in the fog of war...... Vietnam, Iraq TELLING PEOPLE WHERE to aim on adrenaline

@@spikedpsycho2383 The whole point of shooting drills is that you teach your body to aim as a reflex. The brain simplifies repeated actions, like how you don't have to consider the exact way to move your arm to switch on a light in a room you're familiar with. That means you don't have to think about where to aim, you just think _to_ aim.

@@CruelestChris the whole point of this mockery...is infantry go in with infantry weapons. Totally inadequate to defeat the enemy bugs. The powered armor was eschewed in the movie. Still....they have - No tanks - No infantry fighting vehicles - despite hover transports to move infantry, they have no gunships. - The one weapon suitable for killing bugs, the mini nuke bazooka, they only use once. - the Navy could have bombarded the site before landing. Abd lastly they were training to fight other infantry. None of their infantry training equipped them to handle bugs.

@@spikedpsycho2383 That's because their government doesn't want to win this war, because if they did they'd have to find a new enemy. Their whole society requires they have a war with someone, otherwise there's no need for military service. The hive of stupid vicious ants they can just kick every so often is perfect, they can say whatever they want about it. That's why they suddenly start fighting effectively (full air support) when the idea the bugs might be intelligent comes up. They can attack Klendathu whenever they want, they choose not to.

@@CruelestChris Read the book, Verhoven twisted EVERY part of the book to fit a political narrative. In the book the Federated Government KNEW the Arachnids were intelligent and had colonized dozens of worlds, but after numerous attempts at opening peaceful relations and being ignored the Government used an alien race to negotiate a treaty establishing borders and areas for future colonies. In the book the government actively dissuades service, even in the war. Second this is the first war the Federated Government had ever had, they had peaceful relations with over 40 other space faring races. Earth and its colonies had been at peace for 500 years, but a radical religious group ignored every warning from the Government and illegally colonized a planet belonging to the Arachnids. When they were wiped out the Government apologized to the Arachnids and did nothing else. The war started when the Arachnids began invading other human colonies breaking the treaty. People who served gave up all civil liberties while serving, they were property of the government and the government made it VERY clear that service was horrific and deadly. Anyone could serve unless they were mentally incapable of understanding the oath, so no matter the physical disability or deformity if you volunteered for service the government had to take you. Also it was a crime punishable by death to try to stop someone from serving. Federal Service could include terraforming, scouting for potential mining asteroids, building infrastructure on colonies, working in waste disposal, policing, fire fighting, and the frontier medical corp were all federal service. According to Heinlein 19 out of 20 veterans of federal service had never served in any military capacity. Also only veterans of federal service could vote or hold political office, but were held to a higher standard by law than anyone else. What a normal person would get a fine for a citizen would get executed for. Rico's father in the book proudly proclaimed that not one Rico had served for 100 years. Also citizens were forbidden from acquiring fortunes, or holding onto any serious wealth, they were expected and forced by law to donate everything earned past what was considered necessary for a middle class life. While non citizens could have as much wealth as they desired as long as they paid their taxes. Non citizens had full civil liberties but were not allowed to vote or hold political office but could protest, had full freedom of speech, freedom of religion, could own any property, run any corporation or business, move freely, basically non citizens had more freedoms than even people in liberal democracies have today. Except they could not vote. Notice I said Veterans, anyone still serving or who made a career of service was ineligible to vote, voice any political opinion, support any political cause or candidate, and had no civil liberties at all while serving, they were property for the entirety of their service. The whole idea of the book is that citizens sacrifice for the good of the whole of humanity, and since they did they were allowed to vote and hold political office to determine the laws and guide humanity to a bright peaceful future without war or conflict. Of course Verhoven the racist claims to be anti fascist yet oddly supports very fascist and white supremacist movements and ideals so of course he would twist a book about an egalitarian peace seeking government that only allows those who were willing to give their life for humanity to vote or hold office. Also in the book MI used drop pods and powered armor at all times, each had nuke launchers on their rifles, and their rifles easily destroyed an arachnid, issue was power and ammunition ran out before the bugs did. The Bugs also used advanced tactics and strategy, were feared by all other sentient races in the galaxy because they were expansionistic and had only one race they would trade with. All of that would have ruined Verhoven's political agenda and narrative while making the movie. He went out of his way to mock the book the ideas in the book and did what so many brain dead idiots do today and call something fascism that opposes their political agenda.

Sequels CGI are luke really terrible then you look at this one and im like "what the hell happened?"

@@robfus Budget is what happened. This one was a cinematic release, where as the sequels were all straight to the DVD bargain bin I believe.

Not that much cgi in Jurassic park

@@spelcheakBut the CGI that is there holds up. That's the point.

Denise Richards even said later in interviews that she hated her performance in this movie. I suspect it was a result of Verehoeven directing her to act that way on purpose, as he clearly wanted the young actors to have a soap opera-ish way about them. All part of the satire.

Want something else you can't unsee Watch Star Wars ep4 again, pay VERY close attention to Darth Vader when he meets Leia for the first time, how he moves and stands You can hate me for it later ;)

I heard that the director was specifically looking for attractive actors who couldn’t really act, to sell the empty, propaganda feeling.

@@user-il9ze9py8c lmao

​Let's not blame PV for her bad acting.

Yes I’ve been hoping district 9 would start making the rounds on react channels soon

@@turtlemop8712 - I know Cinema Rules just reacted to it earlier this week, so that’s why it’s fresh in my mind, but it definitely hasn’t been covered by almost any of my fav reaction channels, like CineBinge, obviously, and Simone & George would really love it, I think.

Shrimps

Break out the canned cat food!!

@@richardrobbins8067 - haha, good idea!

I was at that panel, they said there was a lot of competition on set and then they challenged each other, who could do 10 push ups fastest. They looked like they were still friends and had a great time hanging out and answering questions.

In 1981 Ironside was in a film called "Scanners" where he played a telepath who was able to make people's head explode. He had a long career before and after this movie and has often been required to act out ridiculous scenes. A true professional actor.

@@stvdagger8074 He also literally said "suck your brains out" in Scanners.

All the actors 100% acted the hell out of this movie. Hands down my favorite part was the mom absolutely losing her mind with glee over the group of kids stepping on bugs.

@@michaelconnor1542 thank you for being a friend

What about Dougie Houser, as a Psi-cop

The writers actually manage to sneak in quite a lot of the world building into the movie early on, even if Voerhoven frames it differently. And I won't crap on the laser tag training for force on force training, as the bugs weren't their active enemy yet, and that's something current day militaries do, with MILES systems. The whole jungle gym format of the military base is kinda stupid though.

Also it's pretty interesting that this 'fascist' society as presented in this movie is a multiracial gender inclusive one, that has an all volunteer military, and despite the propaganda not only has live coverage of a military operation, but allows debate on the topic of the war and alternative opinions to be aired, but when the initial disaster of the start of war happens they dont downplay it or try to hide it but allow the press to fully show the extent of the failure, and sack the person in charge. These are not the actions that were done by the most well known real life fascist government.

There was also an animated series that was like a blend of the series and the book and included a TON of stuff the movie left out like an entire other alien race and power armor, mechs, and jet packs.

I wouldn't say that is unrealistic. I grew up in the 80s in Glendale Arizona the public humiliation and lack of privacy was very real to me that struck a chord. Glad I grew up in an awesome family and had good friends or I would be a suicide statistic. Kids were especially cruel here but we learned street smarts being from a multi-ethnic area.

@@MandoWookie You write _"it's pretty interesting that this 'fascist' society as presented in this movie is […] that has an all volunteer military"_ I would argue, if you want a fascist society that rules for decades, you better take care, that the children of the rich folks doesn't die in the wars. And pretending there is an open debate is also necessary to keep the people in line. You also write about the 'multiracial' thing. Fascists only need enemies, they don't care what defines them. If there are aliens, then aliens are "the others". If there aren't aliens then idk the irish/italians/jews/trans/etc. are "the others". The only constant is that there is an "Us" vs a "Them". So i don't think, that the depiction of fascism is in any meaningfull way different then the ones we had and have in human society.

Mine is his, "Hold what you've got! "

I second this very much!

Demolition Man would be a good one

and prescient

@@adamskeans2515 Oh my God yes I am constantly watching things that happen and am all like "DEMOLITION MAN WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A PARODY DYSTOPIA NOT AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL!"

Oh man, it's sooo good!

@@ThreadBomb yep, and it cost a fortune and make back very little money

@@bumfricker2487 Unfortunately, people back then didn't understand that it was all a satire. People took it seriously and didn't like it because of that.

@@yt45204 Me too but Germans were unrealistic with their propaganda. Look up their cloning program, it is not actual cloning as we know it today but they brainwashed girls and guys to create the perfect race, creepy AF.

@@carn9507 Italy has a pretty big range of skin tones. Italians with Piedmontese roots are far more fair-skinned than people from Sicily

Look at him at 3:10 ... he is a bit too tanned and his hair could be lighter, but in all other aspects he fits the bill. Maybe he's an "americanized" version of that propaganda poster Übermensch. BTW, I once knew a guy whose father was the result of that Nazi breeding project. It kinda worked, his father was this insanely tall muscular blonde dude, and the guy looked a lot like his father. Not that I'd call it a smart idea or good or moral in any way, but the result certainly looked a lot like the Nazis had imagined...

If I'm not mistaken, he has said since that he hired the young cast specifically on their looks and 'poor' performances. He hired attractive actors with not great acting abilities intentionally to make it seem cheesy and trashy in contrast to the OTT violence and horror

@@yt45204 to me he look more north West Europa... More precisely belgium, netherland and Luxembourg...

Likely insurgents or dissidents who don't agree with the government.

And why did the Terran Federation have a huge, armed to the teeth Space Battle Fleet BEFORE they even knew about Arachnids?

Well if we are assuming that the movie universe in somewhat inline with the book they fight other human militants, rebels etc etc. But more interestingly another alien race they call "Skinnies". They were featured in the animated show Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles.

@@kallemattiwaris2422 Because it would be insane to wait until something is threatening you to start building a military.

@@moonoracle115 This movie has nothing to do with the books, considering Verhoeven hated the book. If anything it's a satire of the book. The implications are likely that, before the bugs, Humans were fighting other Humans. I think we can assume that Earth is now just 1 large fascist government, so clearly there were no more Humans to conquer. Now their wars have to be waged amongst the stars and will never end.

Wasn't Kuato the stomach baby?

He was the brother and host of of Kuato.

Just like Robocop.

@@inarar5334 Found it weird when hearing that some people couldnt identify this as satirical of authoritarian military goverments. I always thought it is so obvious that its impossible to miss.

@@Blackstaralpha same, mainly because nobody misses it in Robocop and they have nearly identical tones. They both even use newscast interstitials to drive home the point, not to mention very similar scores.

@@Blackstaralpha Yeah, the really scary part are the people who think the Terran Federation is an admirable political, social and judicial model.

the very notion of launching meteorites across the galaxy is ludicrous. A testament of how easily media can convince an audience of scientific lunacy. the bugs may not be peaceful and probably not interested in co existence, but they did not instigate this war

Yeah the book is incredibly different and pretty sure Heinlein was kinda parodying nationalism though hard to say.

It also helped popularize mechs/exo suits. As it's one of the earliest cases of a big robot piloted by a person.

@@jacksmith-vs4ct Heinlein was not parodying anything, he was all serious about the militant fascist society being “the best”. It was Verhoeven who made it into a fascist critical parody in the movie, it was also a critique of US Hooray-patriotism and foreign policy in the Middle East (Gulf wars).

@@n3rdy11 I'd quibble that it's not strictly fascist. Democracy-for-veterans, along with a brutal penal system and militarism. Looks despotic, but I suppose it's Heinlein's conceit that such a system would actually have broad public support (including from the civilians - even if they can't vote, the system would either require their acquiescence or their brutal suppression). As much as I wouldn't want to limit the franchise to veterans, I question whether such a society would be that militaristic. US militarism seems to depend on the limited political influence of veterans, and faith that conscription is never going to be enforced again. [Actually, I guess what's being pilloried here is the actual system, and the public political consciousness that supports it. And Verhoeven has called it "fascism," but I think he uses the term loosely. Still, respect for his perspective, since he actually lived under Nazi occupation as a child in the Netherlands]

@@n3rdy11 That is not true at all. If Heinlein "was all serious about the militant fascist society being 'the best'" then why did he run for California State Assembly as a liberal Democrat? Why did so many of his books feature protagonists from hedonistic anarchical or libertarian societies? Why did his political nonfiction book "Take Back Your Government!" emphasize grassroots movements to bring the voice of the people into government? People who dismiss Heinlein as a fascist are really ignoring his entire life in favor of their misinterpretation of one book.

It’s like “a nations pride” from inglorious bastards

This is what would have happened if the Nazis won.

Because the characters wear Nazi uniforms we're supposed to think their prosperous multicultural meritocracy is the bad guys. That's how dumb Verhoeven is, or how dumb he thinks the audience is.

@@fakecubed Or maybe he trusts the audience to be smart enough to realize that we're probably not seeing the whole picture here? The idea of this entire movie is that it's a propaganda film. We see what appears to be a prosperous multicultral society, but we're only shown the POV of rich people and the military who have an agenda to paint a rosy picture of this militarized authoritarian society. We also see indications that public, corporal punishment is common place...so how are political dissenters treated? For that matter, how are those who are not able bodied and can't serve in the military treated in this alleged meritocracy? The one woman in the shower scene who mentions she joined the military to "get licensed to have babies" strongly hints at eugenics! So is everyone actually prosperous and happy? How do we know that this prosperty we see isn't on the backs of an oppressed underclass? Maybe he trusted his audience to be smart enough to pick up on that? He was kind of clearly kind of naive in that trust!

@@sandpiperr Political dissenters are speaking freely about their dissent on public TV broadcasts. Did you even watch this movie?

I saw it in the cinema too, multiple times. As for the star trek comparison, it is actually the anti-star trek. Check out the review and analysis on Red Letter Media.

SSP DARK FLEET

The opening scene didn't immediately clue you in?

Not as well known, but the book was a big inspiration for Gundam.

The first time I saw it I thought the insect aliens looked just like the hydralisks from SC. On another note the aliens from Tiberium Wars reminded me a lot of War of the worlds remake.

They even used sound bites from Aliens in the first "StarCraft"

Its more the novel this is based on inspired Warhammer 40k, starcraft was created by Blizzard after the failed to get a license to make a Warhammer 40k RTS game. In the novel Starship Troopers the MI wear power armor and a dropped into battle in drop pods. The Bugs(and the Xenomorphs from the Alien franchise) inspired the Warhammer tyranids which are the inspiration for the Zerg

At the end of the third movie

@@Klaus-em3ixThank you. There are so many of them now that I can't keep track of what was shown in which. Part of the 25 year long "we must repackage everything as an existing popular IP" craze Hollywood has had.

Props have been very good before this. CGI though is really good for its day. But plenty of movies had been using practical effects for ages And some people had gotten really good at it.

"clever social satire" Big dumb travesty, imo. I recommend reading the book, which is actually a quality piece of art, and an actual rumination on society, which the moron Verhooven didn't bother to read which is why the movie is a fucking brainless travesty.

No, it's a complete misunderstanding of the book. Militarism doesn't equal fascism. In a fascistic state there is nothing but the state. You wouldn't be allowed to not do military service and no one would thrive as a civilian because there would be no civilians. So the big dumb effects movie only obscures that Paul can't read. Still like the movie though.

@@TheTurinturumbar No, It's a *deliberate satire* of the book. In the movie, it's not really a fascistic state, it's actually rather progressive in a number of ways- but in order to maintain a status quo within said state, there always has to be an enemy to fight against - real, or simply perceived through propaganda. Because war is always profitable. It's clear to me in this that humans are the antagonists, and the bugs are just defending themselves from human colonialism. I also never bought the "bugs firing asteroids across the galaxy" thing that the state was perpetuating - very false flag behaviour. What would the arachnids gain from doing such a thing? - Anyway, it's a fantastic movie with amazing visual effects that stand up incredibly well after all this time, and it is also fun to ponder on its meaning. :)

@@philrob1978 I don't see how that adds up. If it's war for profit they were trying to satirize then painting it as fascism is missing the mark quite badly. Fascism is action communism, not predatory capitalism.

@@TheTurinturumbar That's what I'm saying - it isn't "fascism" in the movie at all - the society portrayed is a potential consequence of modern corporate and militaristic opportunistic greed. This is absolutely a consistent theme with Verhoeven's sci-fi movies Robocop/Total Recall/Starship Troopers. With the latter, what happens when there are no "enemies" left on Earth to allow that gravy train to continue? They look up. Allow that to fester for a century or so and we end up where this movie is.

The book Starship Troopers was a major inspiration for Warhammer 40K. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer 40K game, but were unable to license it, so instead they changed some stuff around and made Starcraft instead.

Couple of video games, recently. Terran Command and Extermination. An RTS and a co-op shooter respectively.

I think the issue is that the author of the book actually glorified fascist, authoritarian regimes and hid it under the veneer of a space war story....and the director chose to directly satirize the novel and the author's depiction of the glorious military Terran Federation. IOW, he joked about what Heinlen took seriously.

@@eschatological He did a very poor job of 'directly' satirizing it. He needed to humanize the 'bugs' and/or show actual negative effects of the "Fascism". No inter-human war, no poverty, no protests, no martial law, no scape-goated group/race of people, no resource shortages, no legislation that shows why the exclusive government is bad, a volunteer military, military commanders publically taking responsibility for failures and resigning, etc. There was an idea and a framework, but Paul didn't make it a reality. He made a movie about killing 'bugs' in which a few people wear Nazi-like uniforms.

I really should re-re-read the book. I've seen the movie more times. Sadly, I loaned out my copy and never got it back.

@@yodieyuh6077 Yeah, I've never understood why people love this movie, tbh. It's campy, but there's better camp. I feel like it gained traction during the brief fascination America had with Denise Richards....and coed showers.

@@yodieyuh6077 The movie is an excellent satire. You simply didn't understand it. No good satire movie explains to you the negative affects of it's subject. A good satire simply gives you the propaganda, and you can pull the negative aspects from it with critical thinking. Not everything needs to be spoon fed to you. The enemies being bugs and not humans is literally what makes it such a good satire. If it were humans, it makes you empathetic. That's the exact opposite reaction that he was looking for in the audience. This is a satire of Fascist propaganda. You're not supposed to connect with the enemy. The enemy is supposed to give you a feeling of disgust. That's literally the whole point. It further deepens the divide between the tribal US vs THEM mentality. The further you can distance yourself from the enemy, the better the satire. It's a propaganda film. You're not supposed to connect with the enemy. It's a tribalism mentality that's being pushed here. The less you can empathize with the enemy, the stronger you build your tribal walls. This is done effectively in this movie. Because it's propaganda, you have to try very very very very hard to empathize with an enemy. That's the whole point. It's supposed to feel like a "utopia". It's a propaganda movie. What propaganda movie talks shit about themselves? That's why it's supposed show only the "good things" about their society. The negative parts are subliminal and therefor much more effective. It's not in your face as you said it should be, because that would make it a lesser of a satire. The movie doesn't need to tell you that having a strong military presence in high school is bad. It just shows it as it is in society. It shouldn't have to tell you it's bad. You simply feel it underneath your skin. The whole televised segments with the people having debates? Yeah, that gives you insight on their society. When they talk about strong values such as strength and power and authority is being better than weak values like empathy and understanding? That's how they are as a society and they don't need to tell you that it's bad, you simply feel unnerved by it naturally. The fact that the soldiers can literally see their own infantry company get cut to shreds in the most violent and upsetting way possible, but be completely fine the next day joking around with each other shows the power of brainwashing that fascism has on their mentality. The movie doesn't tell you it's bad, because you already know it. This is what makes it a great satire. When I first saw the movie, I was 11. I didn't even understand the concept of "satire". But the film didn't need to spoon feed it to me as you suggested it should have. As a 11 year old, at first all I thought was cool soldiers killing bugs. But the longer I thought about it, the more I realized that there was something deeply disturbing about that society, and even though I can find similarities to my own American reality, there was something there that would terrify me deeply if I were to swap places and live in that world. That's why the movie is an excellent satire. It doesn't spoon feed you information on why certain things are bad. It makes you look beyond the propaganda and makes you think critically as it did to me as a 11 year old.

Never understood the hate for Carmen. She never cheated on her boyfriend and simply chose a career path after HS. She knew a relationship would never work out like that so she broke up with him right away when she realized that.

Based on that, it sounds like the director consistently makes great movies he himself completely doesn't understand xD.

He was dismayed the audience didn't pick up on the Earth had fallen to fascism.

@@fipse it came across that she was stinging him along. Hence the dear John video breaking up with him. She was waiting until she found out she would make it through flight school.

The books were clear Earth had fallen to fascism.

@@ThreadBomb the fact that he's Dutch and seemed to not even notice being nude makes it incredible and hilarious

@@ThreadBomb Incredibly nude = skinless.

That would make me more uncomfortable. How does that make someone more comfortable? Sounds like a perv.

pretty sure they did know about the bugs as it was also stated at one point that the asteroid was retaliation for terran expansion or something into the bug territory which they didn't think were that smart at the time.

also the planetary defense system might not have actually worked or even existed. The government of Starship Troopers is extremely incompetent and would always rather patch up public perception with propaganda than fix the underlying issues.

But they dissected bugs in school and the teacher spoke specifically about the alien bugs.

They were also painted purple and reused as Alliance trooper outfits in the Firefly series.

Yeah well, considering what Heinlen did like, I'm not sure I care!

The fact that anyone could watch the scene of kids stomping on cockroaches and still not get it boggles my mind, let alone the blatant nazi uniforms...

i got it was satire when the logo came into view at the start.

I think it have a lot to do about adaptations before 2000, the movie and the book have barelly anything in common. You could say this kind of adaptation was kinda rare back than and lot of people didn't get it, this days we are used to it 😅

yeah people really didn't get it at the time. if it had come out 5 years later it would have landed a lot better

@@heptonaut This movie would have likely been boycotted: 2002 was just 1 year after 9/11. The Buenos Aires Meteor, in a film that wasn't recognized as satire, would have likely been considered in terrible taste. Of course, this movie existed before 9/11, so obviously not a reference to that event. It was certainly prescient.

Actually watched the movie in the military back then - on work time with the unit. Apparently our boss was not the reading type ;-)

In fairness the political structure of the society in the movie closely follows the book, in particular the fact that national service (which in the book isn't all military, you might serve in something like the Peace Corps or building infrastructure or whatever) is the price of the franchise. Rico's parents are wealthy but they don't have the right to vote. Heinlein wrote Starship Troopers in a fit of pique after he saw an ad signed by a lot of prominent scientists calling for unilateral nuclear disarmament. Heinlein felt that people who had not sacrificed for their society should not have the right to influence its direction. Verhoeven, having lived in a country occupied by actual Nazis, knew where that would lead.

@@localroger Considering how little Nazi's believed in their own suffering and sacrifice for the nation that is kind of ironic. This is the issue of thinking that living through something gives you an understanding of something.

It's shocking that anyone would take this as a pro fascist movie given Verhoeven's background. And after Robocop he had clearly shown he likes to make satirical movies.

Why is it always fascism? It could be totalitarianism.

He also did Blackbook in 2006 about a Jewish spy in the Dutch resistance during WW2 that’s worth watching.

@@LaserWombat Was there any actual proof that the bugs launched the meteorite at Earth?

@@mikerodgers7620 This

Oh wow! I was watching the video and thinking the exact same thing. So I'm not the only one who's had that impression from other reactions about this movie, huh? Thank you for that, makes me feel better. On a day when I happened to need it to no less. Had a great time watching it with you all. Thanks.

What he wanted us to learn had nothing to do with the original writing by Robert A. Heinlein. All Verhoeven understood from the novel is "militarism = fascism and fascism is bad, m'kay?" There is nothing fascist or totalitarian about the society portrayed in the movie, upon closer scrutiny, because it wasn't written to be that way to begin with. That's why the director's preachy, whiny message is drowned by the awesomeness. No one would ever root for the bugs instead of the Federation unless there was something wrong with their head.

Why would you ever assume that film directors know something that other people need to know like some sort of prophet? You really shouldn't be worshipping hollywood Jerome.

@@razvansfirlogea3134 You think like you have autism

@@razvansfirlogea3134 especially because the lazy ass didn't even read the novel

@@razvansfirlogea3134 finally someone else who knows all that.

wow... someone seen/knows-about and recommends dragonheart... I really liked this movie, it has it's flaws, but it's still good before we had 'eragon' movie and also the 'how to train your dragon' movie series, we had dragonheart

@@redmoonbloodmoon3161 I first saw Dragonheart on HBO, and immediately sought it out on DVD. Yes, it does have it's flaws, but I think it's an absolutely amazing movie overall. Plus it shares an actor in common with this movie. I have watched it dozens of times, and it's one of the few movies that actually makes my cold-hearted ass tear up at the end. I am so waiting for one reaction channel to do that movie, and Cinebinge might just be the one.

A team of a human and dragon grifting l. Excellent.

minor correction: occupied netherlands, not germany

100%. Didn´t even know it was by him while watching, it´s really different from the rest of his films.

@@woeshaling6421 Yes, you're right, my bad 😋Which makes sense in a way, since Verhoeven is from Amsterdam.

@@stu2729 "Black Book" has a lot more in common with Verhoeven's European movies than his American ones. He said that "Black Book" began as a stack of leftover story elements from his earlier Dutch resistance movie "Soldier of Orange", which is also damn' good.

Yeah, the book is described as fascist by people who don't actually know what fascism is. The book is more libertarian in nature, as was Heinlein himself. (Not a member of the Libertarian Party, but an advocate of libertarian political philosophy.) In the book, military service, i.e. service to the State, is entirely voluntary. In a fascist society everything is in service to the state. “Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.” - Benito Mussolini I liked that the movie retained enough of Heinlein's political thesis during the classroom scenes to undercut Verhoeven's "the Federation is fascist" message. It's rather hilarious that in arguing against Heinlein Verhoeven got to pick and choose how to present Heinlein's argument and Verhoeven still lost. A libertarian society with a fascist paint job is still a libertarian society.

@@flatebo1 That's just, like, your opinion, man. I'd say Verhoeven clearly won the argument, and we can't both be right. Also, would libertarians really be ok with having their right to procreate restricted? Considering the way they lost their shit about masks and vaccines I doubt it...

@@korganrocks3995 I'm mot sure the "baby license" is an aspect of the book. I don't recall it, anyway. So that may be more of a Verhoeven thing than a Heinlein thing. And no, Verhoeven did not win the argument because Verhoeven clearly understands nothing about fascist governments. Fascist governments do not vote out incompetent political leadership as the Federation does after the disaster on Planet P. Fascist government's do not allow live broadcasting of active military operations. Fascist governments deify their political leadership. To publicly disgrace a failed political leader is to undermine the entire premise of fascism. Fascist governments conceal the failures of their leaders. They displace blame onto patsies. Fascism is all about the subordination of everything to the state. A fascist government would conscript soldiers into tis military. The Federation cannot - because it cannot force a person to become a citizen against his will. Like far too many people who love to label everything they dislike as "fascist" Verhoeven's understanding of it is entirely surface-level. Which is pretty much why he seems to think that using Nazi-inspired uniforms is all he needs to do to make his "war turns people into fascists" argument. Kind of like how the anti-capitalist message of Robocop utterly fails due to Verhoeven's complete failure to understand capitalism.

@@flatebo1 How can you be sure the failed political leader who is publically disgraced is anything but a patsy, while the people who are really in charge avoid all accountability? Modern problems require modern solutions, so fascism in the future might become more subtle than "glorious leader can do no wrong". 😉 That said, ten years ago I would have assumed traditional fascism wouldn't fly today, but this last decade has made it depressingly clear that there are still a lot of people who will flock to it as soon as someone like Trump says the quiet part out loud and gets away with it... Starship Troopers is actually one of the only Heinlein books I haven't read, so I can't speak on the differences between book and film. Thank you for the substantial answer though, that's not something I'm used to seeing. Could you elaborate on Verhoeven's complete failure to understand capitalism, because I don't see anything odd about Robocop in that sense?

@@korganrocks3995 Well, maybe because the Sky Marshall is the elected head of the war effort (and possibly the government - this is somewhat unclear). What evidence do you have, other than your simple presumption, that there *are* other people "really in charge" behind the scenes? There might be , but given the stress the movie and book place upon the citizen accepting personal responsibility for how the state exercises the political power granted to it by the citizen, this might be difficult to pull off, much less sustain. "Modern problems require modern solutions..." There are no "modern problems". There are just the same old problems with a modern paintjob. Humans haven't evolved into some radically different lifeform over the last cople centuries. The problems people face now are the same ones people have dealt with for millennia. Food. Shelter. Family. Security. Liberty. How much to we want and what are we willing to do to get it? "That said, ten years ago I would have assumed traditional fascism wouldn't fly today,..." 36 years ago I took a class on American Utopian Communities. Utopian communities are either secular (most 1960's socialist communes) or religious (like the Amish, Shakers, early Mormons) and either embrace technology (Mennonites) or reject it (again, Amish). But all of them sell the same product - "unconditional" love, acceptance and care for/by community members...so long as you blindly obey the dictates of the community's leaders. Utopian communities control their members in a variety of ways, including financially (you sign over *all* of your worldly possessions to the community/group), intellectually (forbidden books/music/even words as well as mandatory use of new terms, idiosyncratic redefinitions of existing words, mandatory reading, etc.) and socially (members are highly discouraged/forbidden to have any meaningful contact with outsiders, even family). Utopian communities are, in essence, miniature totalitarian states, i.e. mini-fascisms each with their own "Dear Leaders", such as David Koresh or Jim Jones. Any community member who doesn't submit to the group is ejected from the community. Anyone being expelled loses all of his possessions - because they aren't *his" possessions. They belong to the community. He loses his job (because he typically works in a community-owned business or for a business owned by community members). And he loses every social relationship since other community members are forbidden from interacting with him. And he's likely alienated everyone he knew prior to joining the community. So the excommunicant winds up completely broke, alone and often lacking any foundation upon which to start anew. Anyway, after a semester of studying a variety of utopian communities on the last class before finals the professor went around the room asking every student whether they would consider joining a utopian community either permanently or just on a trial basis (utopian communities that accept new members typically put them through a probationary period before acceptance) to see if they'd like it. There were around fifteen students in the class. I was the last one he called upon. I was the only one who said "Never." Every other student was willing to at least give a utopian community a try - if they found one that appealed to their sensibilities. Every one was willing to, in essence, give fascism a shot. I had long wondered just how many people answered dishonestly. Once the first few people said "yes" there is mounting social pressure for every following person to agree with the group consensus. I'd wondered whether the high pro-utopianism rate was simply an effect of selection bias. They all had chosen to take a class about utopian communities, after all, so maybe they were predisposed to view them favorably. The last couple years have pretty clearly shown that there are a vast number of people who actively want someone else to take responsibility for their lives. To tell them what they can and cannot do. To tell them who they can and cannot associate with. To tell them what they can and cannot think about. These people are not conservatives. They are modern leftists/progressives. They are, if not fully committed to fascism, at least very well-disposed towards it. The modern left ostracizes anyone who deviates from the approved ideology. They actively seek to deprive them of jobs, careers, friends, even access to their own property (consider how the Canadian government went after the bank accounts of those protesting government policy). The modern left redefines words, then insists that everyone use and understand them in their "new" meaning - even in historical contexts where that new meaning is wholly inapplicable. The modern progressive left is a utopian cult. It's rainbow-flag fascism. "Could you elaborate on Verhoeven's complete failure to understand capitalism..." Sure. What Verhoeven presents in Robocop is not capitalism. It's a corporatocracy . Capitalism is characterized by the free exchange of goods and services between willing participants. Capitalism is a self-regulating system with little use for government as governmental interference invariably distorts market incentives and thus subverts the goal of capitalism. Capitalism is, in short, democracy applied to economics where every transaction is an election, every dollar is a vote and every vote counts.. Contracting a company, like OCP, to provide a basic government service, like policing, is anathema to capitalism. It involves those wielding political power selling the power of the state to a favored company. Exploiting access to governmental power and patronage like this is the bread and butter of corporatocracy because it is literally "rule by corporations" Which is what OCP is doing.. OCP rules because OCP bought the government.

Actually, there is one more sci-fi movie by Paul Verhoeven, albeit with more of a horror angle. That would be "Hollow Man" with Kevin Bacon.

@@JoeCool7835 Sci fy? Yes. Great? Nope.

@@pedrothevenard Well, I liked it, anyway.

@@JoeCool7835 It's not terrible, and if you like it that's great, there's a lot of movies that I like and others don't, but in my opinion it just isn't on the same level as the other 3, fast from it actually.

I always love how Blizz cribbed a ton of stuff from 40k, Aliens, SST, and....Space Battleship Yamato. Ha ha, they just had to get that awesome captain in there. "Battlecruiser operational"

The bug is "afraid". Another great detail: obviously it is terrified, no need to be psychic to know that. I heard the intelligence people just fake being psychic (I mean, cards? Really? Every con artist has to know the lie should be slightly more elaborate, but I guess the simpler, the more effective it is! XD), giving them a psychological advantage over everyone else. It makes a lot of sense once you see the movie like that.

@@leovk5779 No, no, no, you're not getting it. The very fact that it CAN be afraid is the point - its a fucking bug, dude. The Federation are legit unclear if these things are even sentient, ya know? For it to be afraid, it has to understand what is happening. As an example, there's nothing to suggest ants have the capacity to know fear - they're not advanced enough cognitively to espouse emotions like that. But this thing? It *is* afraid. That's why they cheer - they realize they're not just fighting a mindless swarm which will require total genocide to combat, but a foe that is conscious, has a mind, has emotions. And can know fear. Which would you rather be fighting: A mindless swarm that will never ever ever stop and knows no fear, only instinctual programming driving it to expand and consume, or a foe that can and does know terror at your coming?

@Richard Moore Fact is, Vehoven did a terrible job in a sense, because tons of people who watch this come away thinking "damn dude, i'd like to enlist". He tried to do a mocking jab at militant fascistic societies and their propaganda, but in large part all he did was make propaganda for militant fascistic societies lol That said, it illuminates something many viewers don't realize - you have been propagandized to. Look at your wording there Richard - "normal", being the keyword. You have been so utterly consumed by propaganda demonizing this sort an ethos, that you have internalized it as 'abnormal' relative to the media you've seen. Reality check: In nature, violence is regularly the answer to resolving issues. When facing a foe, its better they are afraid than resolute in unconscious instinct. Predators and prey do not learn to live together - they fight to the death, because one cannot survive without the other dying. What I mean to say is, you have been propagandized to and conditioned to perceive reality in a way that is utterly-abnormal, yet, you perceive the normality of naturalistic function as 'abnormal', and you are not alone - that is perhaps the most noteworthy facet of this film as per the many and varied responses that Ive observed.

​@@no-xr8wv Maybe that was Verhoeven's point, to show the propaganda does work, if you feel pumped at the end of the film isn't that actually scary? You've been shown horrors of war, with obvious sarcastic tones that its definitely a good idea to sign up, and you still want to go along with it. I find that scary. Luckily its just a harmless film with a federation that doesn't actually exist that you can't sign up for service in.

@@no-xr8wv In addition, the ethos of the federation is "might makes right" and that seems to be something that's not "normal" to teach kids, exactly as you say propaganda, hey? But history shows that its exactly right, history written by the victors, but co-operation also served people very well in history, and for whatever reason co-operation is the only "normal" thing to teach kids.

Well, it's not clearly explained on purpose: it's playing tricks with the audience, making us root for the bad guys XD An anti-propaganda masterpiece in my opinion.

I never really picked up on the idea that they were sent by humans... though I figured that with his parents they just sometimes "accidentally" let one through to keep rallying people.

How does the Stardrive work? The humans can have unexplained FTL equivalent locomotion but bugs who can project plasma out of orbit through natural evolution and have successfully inhabited multiple planets in multiple star systems need some deep explanation? We see, on screen, characters with NO hint of deception trace the asteroid's path from Klendathu system to them and then project a path to Sol space. We heard they use plasma to send spores, we see multiple planets across multiple systems already inhabited, we see bugs who evolved the ability to shoot things in space, we see the asteroid path traced in real time. In real life humans don't have technology to take humans to other planets in our own system, they don't have machines that can instantly rebuild body tissue on a person, and humans can't control creatures through psychic abilities.

Well, in the book, the bugs are decidedly intelligent, use weapons, build factories, all that. It's outright said that the conflict is inevitable, since both species are after the same "real estate" (which is _rare_ ) and their societies are so different that there's little chance of living next to each other without the threat of violence. Those have FTL spaceships, no problem with that. Even then, nobody ever figures out whether the asteroid was in fact launched by the bugs or not - it's not a thing that starts the war, unlike in the movie. In the movie, the bugs are entirely different. They don't really show any technology at all, they just "happen" to have bugs that can shoot into orbit. For all we know, they didn't even spread to those other planets on their own - they might very well be an invasive species that humans (or other aliens) carried there, either on purpose or accidentally. They have no industry, and it doesn't even look like they have any over-ground farms. There's very strong vibes that the asteroid was completely unrelated to the bugs, they just needed a cheap scapegoat (that backfired). And don't forget that in both the book and the movie, humans have FTL and loads of defences around the Earth. In both cases, the reason they don't detect and deal with the asteroid is that it comes from an unexpected direction - which tentatively suggests that it _didn't_ follow a nice path from Klendathu to Earth (as suggested in the movie); in fact, even if you wanted to make such an assault, you wouldn't really launch it through real-space over many lightyears (and no, it wasn't even travelling at near-lightspeed or something - the destruction it caused was pretty tiny, compared to what a space civilization could do with an asteroid _on purpose_ ). _If_ it was an assault, it was most likely of the "nudge an asteroid in the Solar system" kind of operation. But more likely, it just didn't have anything to do with the bugs in the first place.

Actually its not fascist its a harsh but fair meritocracy. In order to get a say in how society is run or to hold a position of governmental power one must show they are willing to work to improve society at large and if it comes down to it be willing to bet their life for it. And they are always looking for a better system for governing themselves they only use the system they currently works because its stable and "It works". In the finished book it was mentioned only 2% of people got their citizenship through military service most got theirs through backbreaking or dangerous volunteer work. Also the movie was originally another movie that was half finished called Bug Hunt at Outpost 9 that they basically slapped the Starship Troopers brand on after reading like 3 pages of the book trying to satirize something they didn't understand in the first place... The amount of disrespect the The director and writers showed to the author in interviews is honestly infuriating as well. Robert A. Heinlein the author of the book is considered by many to be the Tolkien or Lovecraft of Hard Sci-fi worldbuilding.

Then there's the whole deal with the first half of the movie being almost a parody of 90210-type shows with a love square (one larger than a love triangle) to distract you from really listening to what's being said in the classrooms and on the news. But it's laid out pretty clearly that the war started when human space Mormons started colonizing a planet in the bug system and got wiped out, and it's the humans who keeps escalating the conflict by invading new planets. Not surprising since the teachers in the school keeps reminding us that naked use of force is the simplest way to solve any problem. Even in the end when they have captured the big brain bug they could probably establish some kind of communication with it since they have mind readers available, but they don't even try that. Nope, just cheering when they discover that the bug is afraid, then back to the meat grinder with even younger soldiers.

@@magnusengeseth5060 Additionaly, the human government probably started the war by sending the asteroid to Earth, not the aliens. Also, those mind readers? Probably fake, part of the propaganda, to have a psychological impact over the rest of society. Card tricks? Reading the mind of the alien and realising it is "afraid"? Well duh, way to state the obvious.

A small correction - if you wanted the right to have a child, military service wasn't required. If it had been, Rico would never have been born, as neither of his parents were citizens, meaning they'd never served. However, as one recruit did mention, it was EASIER to get permission to have children if you'd served.

All you sad is true... But you didnt tell the reason for it. Veerhoven never read the novel and so this movie comes out as a complete satire of the thing he wanted to show. He's just another left wing elite who thinks the original Novel is fashistic. If in reaity, it describes a perfect libertarian society. Show me a fashistic society where an opponent of the "goverment" can become stupidly rich. Or where military leaders just step down after they made a huge mistake.

The _far_ side of the Moon. There is no (permanent) dark side.

And no one believed the black guy who got turned into an Aryan.

@@LuaanTi And yet, in the film, they call it the dark side of the moon. I remember laughing a lot about that.

I know there is anime of it. Though its a bit dated.

I always found it kinda funny that everybody prides themselves of having "got" this one, and yet they totally miss the point of Showgirls. Funny because they really are two sides of the same coin.

I thought ST came out in July 1997.

@@Madbandit77 No it was released in November.

Exactly. Crushing Buenos Aires, a center of political opposition (I assume), in the process. Two birds with one giant stone.

Only if you base it in some kind of reality.....the clue is in the genre title......Science Fiction, not Science Truth. In Fiction the Bugs have wormhole tech that make the speed of light redundant. Or they might even have all the Rings of Power and the One Ring, the Infinity Gauntlet and the Stick of Truth so all bets are off. If you want the best version of this story then read the book and see just how different this film is.

@@tommy5675 Exactly. The movie is NOT the book. The movie is a subtle (well, not that subtle at times XD) anti-propaganda masterpiece, hence why the interpretation that the human government, not the bugs, sent the asteroid to start the war makes so much sense. I'm pretty sure that was the intent of Verhoeven, which is why he made it so different from the book. The book is, from what I heard (never read it), a pro-military utopia, they have a completely different take on a relatively similar story.

I know the movie takes liberties from the book but in the book, the bugs were on multiple planets one being in our solar system. And they are only a threat for half of the book, different aliens named skinnies are the real baddies.

@@ThreadBomb You say that, but here's the thing. The Chicxulub crater is a 120km diameter crater from an asteroid about 10km diameter, made about 66 million years ago, bringing an end to the age of the dinosaurs and wiping out around 75% of all species of plant and animal life on Earth at that point. That's about 160 cubic kilometers of solid rock moving at about 75,000kmh. As any decent astronomer will tell you, that's not even that big as rocks in space go. Throwing rocks at other peoples planets is actually a very _good_ weapon since firstly, rocks are really cheap, secondly they're actually pretty hard to detect until they get close, thirdly a rock is actually very hard to stop and lastly they do an _insane_ amount of damage when they hit but have no messy radioactives. The propoganda here, if anything, is that they have defences that_could_ stop big rocks since that would need Deathstar level of firepower and if they had that they could just blow up Bug planets.