Wrestlers dominate in real fighting. Its easy to look for armbars when wrestlers can't smash your nose with elbows. Very dangerous to be on your back in a real fight. But you little bjj boys are safe in your gym with your little rules. Congrats to your upper belts for beating non jiu jitsu practitioners in jiu jitsu
I dont get the whole "omg bjj is so bad because a high level wrestler can do so well vs low to medium belts" narrative. They have many years of HARD grappling practice and built up TONS of strength. Wrestlers are grapplers. Its like saying "omg how can a high level thai boxer do better than 2-year hobbyist boxers, in boxing?!"
It's because martial arts schools *sometimes* become something closer to cults than a place for enthusiasts to, and even professionals to connect and explore! It's ironic how the methodology can become doctrine... and yet probably the most classic story of how things become perverted
Maybe if you talking about McKrotty. Most bjj schools you have to compete to move up, and it takes time. In fact I've never personally heard of any outside of online classes. I rarely see high school wrestlers lose to anything but high ranking bjj players. There is merit to the arguement, especially when the efficiency of bjj is so often blown up and touted as the best system ever. Not saying it's a certainty, but there IS merit to the arguement even at the hobbyist vs JV level.
@@Super3asterd our school is a strictly jujutsu school that promotes based on understanding of the techniques and not in competition. The issue with competition schools is the fact that very few people have long careers with it because of the amount of injuries that happen. I'm a father of two who doesn't care about plastic medals and only trains so that I can go home safely to my family every night. I want to still be able to train in my later years so I train that way.
Wrestlers, especially those who go on to win state championships often times start very young. He may have been doing jiu jitsu for 2 months, but grappling is grappling whether it's judo wrestling etc and that man has likely been grappling for close to a decade
Not a different breed but, the conditioning is different. You can also ask questions to who you are drilling with or rolling with to get better (maybe the bjj gym i went to was not the norm but my partner would ask me to ask the teacher after we were done). Also, it is 5 or more days a week of like 2-3 practice depedning on the high-school and there is a huge emphasis on conditioning. Some bjj classes will have you do some push up and some warm up stuff but hs wrestling really sets up up to be more explosive. Many wreslers will tell you "go hard" when you wrestle but bjj generally want you to be calmer with your movements since pinning means nothing and since you can hurt someone if you jerk a sub. Wrestled in hs for last year. I have to say it is more fun than bjj.
Not really. You have to find a state CHAMPION wrestler to get these results against an average BJJ person at a gym. It’s a theme I notice in most RU-vid videos with wrestlers against BJJ, it’s always one or the best wrestlers against an average BJJ dude.
Nobody believes me when I tell them I submitted 2 purple belts my first week in jiu-jitsu, I wrestled for 10 years so it's about the same time as a brown belt has put in. But I did get triangle choked by a brown belt 30 lbs lighter than me the same day 😂 Grappling is grappling, I just needed to learn more submissions than the basics. Wrestlers are about control so that's what I did. I just thought about position over submission. And ended up getting a rear naked and an Americana
As a wrestler who has rolled with bjj guys I have one tip- never attempt a double leg takedown! Use armdrags or bodylocks and the occasional outside single leg.
As wrestler with a purple belt in BJJ, always go for a double leg. Shrug your shoulders and maintain posture/head position. Good technique will save you from getting choked.
@@saltysourdough The problem is that it's all honor system unless somebody snitches. I've competed a lot at white and blue belt and have never once been asked if I have any wrestling experience. There's usually just a blurb in the rules about wrestlers (and Judo black belts) needing to register at minimum blue for gi or intermediate in nogi and that's it.
@@saltysourdough very true. Smooth comp kinda keeps track but if you aren’t reporting your belts, it doesn’t matter. There are kinda tells on smoothcomp like a white belt with 28 tournaments under his belt probably shouldn’t be a white belt, but they aren’t very strict about it. I do think the white belt division should be protected though. Brand new grapplers don’t need to be competing against experienced wrestlers.
If you compete in Massachusetts, that's all you will find. The guy that beat me when I was a white belt, he's still a white belt 3 yrs later. I guess they love to be sandbaggers up there.
I beat one in my first tournament after 3 months of training. Granted I was being recruited D1 for 2 sports, I had no prior grappling experience. Took his back and choked the sandbagger. This was in 2007 in a elite tier wrestling state
Given my 20+ years of grappling experience, that went almost exactly as I thought it would. State champion wrestler means he could probably be a DI or DII wrestler. They need about two months of jiujitsu before they can hang with most purples and above without getting subbed.
Well wait watch you metric. I did 4 years of freestyle and greco prior to BJJ. And my first submissions succeeded vs blue belts. Took me about 3 private classes to accomplish that. I picked up things very fast back then. The advance white belts and early blues were puzzled by how I could get the best of em in less than one month of BJJ. Little secret, I watch Frank Shamrock on VHS tapes prior to my first classes, hi, hi, hi.
No disrespect to the wrestler but why you acting like a Connecticut 1 time state champ could be a d2 wrestler let alone D1! I know it took a tone of work for this guy to get to this level and he’s very good but I think that’s a bad take
@WilliamC.2 How do you know he isn't? And how would I know he's a one time state champ from Connecticut? The crux of the premise is how seasoned wrestlers do in jiu jitsu and how the jiujitsu learning curve is affected by their spirt. Seems you're being kind of needlessly pedantic.
Depends on the wrestler though and how competitive the state they wrestled in. For example, I went to a few Jui jitsu gyms and was hanging with the brown belts easily. Struggled with the black belts. But blue belts and half the purples were not that tough, at least for me.
Bro, where did you find the footage on 00:28, it’s actually me with blue belt standing behind, this video was taken probably 8 years ago and I’ve never seen this footage before, do I live in the matrix💀💀💀
Josh is going 100% and is taking advantage of the fact that his training partners don't want to hurt him. There were multiple instances where the upper belts could have taken limbs home with them and chose not to. If Josh keeps training like that, he is going to get seriously injured when he tries to explode out of a bad position and his partner doesn't let him slip. I don't say this as a way of passing judgment - I was the same way when I first started BJJ. I was a state finalist wrestler and am now a BJJ black belt, but I definitely caught a few unnecessary injuries as a white and blue belt due to going too hard in practice.
Josh was holding back, too. Why would you think that? He is wrestling, but that doesn't mean. he doesn't have lethal knowledge. Their sparring. True sparring means it's for growth, not to destroy your training partner.
Man, what a great job with the video! Instant subscribe. I am new here, but a huge MMA geek, follow all the big channels and I don't think I've ever seen a better made video on this wrestler vs bjj topic, thank you. 👊
Wrestlers train for control so they can pin both shoulder blades on the mat. What makes wrestling so great when they transition to mma is that aspect of control. When you add punching and elbows to the mix and the fact that a wrestler will have better control over their opponent 9 times out of 10 it turns into a lethal combo.
This is about what I'd expect; brown+ is gonna have his number (until he learns jits), whites and blues can't keep up with his pressure, technique and athleticism.
That man is gonna be a monster once he develops a guard game. He won't even have to worry about leg locks beyond a straight ankle until purple belt at most comps.
I wrestled in college and was able to keep up with the brown belts at my school when I finally started. Granted I was no where near as knowledgeable as them as far as attacks like chokes or locks but they usually couldn’t tap me either, I always took that as a win.
I've been training in BJJ for 13 years and i have a great respect for wrestlers. If they pick up BJJ, as soon as the wrestler get their blue belts, they become monsters of the mat. Awesome video.
Dude as someone with noob grappling experience but an admiration for the art and physicality of it I loved this video. Great commentary explaining the above, keep em coming!
One of the few English terms my coach was able to yell at us was, where the head goes, the body will follow. I trained a long long time in both, and a wrestler from the catch, or judo Jean school are monsters. Had a coach from the states that broke my nose twice and snapped a tooth, just rasslin. Very underrated. Good job mate.
Great video! When I started my coach teamed me up with a 'Josh' who was training Judo for two years already. I was totally green to all combat sports. His signature move was the 'case'a'salami' or kesa-gatame.
After 28 years of BJJ I have learned it is better to be patient with Wrestlers. They explode a lot and if you are busy moving while they do that you lose position. The goal is to be super patient, more patient than time constraints sometimes allows for. I am 47 years old and it may take me longer than 5 or 10 minutes to catch them but I can go as long as I need because I don't try to match aggression with more aggression.
There are not a whole lot of videos if decent wrestlers vs decent BJJers. I love how you use your belt metric, its even better than the Boyd belt band Rener Gracie spoke about. For that guy to be consider a blue/purple like me, he'll have to technically submit purple belts on rare occasion, or else, as you say, he's a high level blue. Please get more of these footages for us. I am 51, grizzled and seasoned looooooong time blue, and my wrestling is actually re-surfacing cause more and more high level blue and decent purples are challenging my game. Wrestling is what I use at times to get that edge I need and equalize my grappling game.
@@_Tao__ Hold on a second here. Wait a moment right now. Let me stop you right here. Lets halt this one right away. Decent wrestlers vs bjjers, lets say a bit worst than a D3. Thats usually what we're faced over here.
Gordon Ryan took on Bo Nickal in a modified rules submission match. Interesting video. Did not end well for the wrestler. Would have been worse if leg locks had been allowed.
Cool video. As a large blue belt I have done well with wrestlers. The butterfly sweep and the guillotine being the main techniques. They learn super fast though and are never an easy roll.
You have to find a state CHAMPION wrestler to get these results against an average BJJ person at a gym. It’s a theme I notice in most RU-vid videos with wrestlers against BJJ, it’s always one of the best wrestlers against an average BJJ dude.
Because the average bjj practitioner is a brown belt? You know something else I've noticed? To produce these results you need a high level jiu jitsu practitioner working under jiu jitsu rules, on soft mats We are all kings of our own kingdom. Don't assume that the jiu jitsu rule set and jiu jitsu training environment is the definitive referee on what constitutes an apt combative comparison, it is one system of many and has its benefits as well as its criticisms
@@emperorjimmu9941 yes, actually. Would you rather see the results of a brown belt champion against a wrestler state wrestler champion? It would be even more one sided. Average BJJ guys are not competitors, that’s my whole point. Yet they can still compete and submit wrestler champions. How about you take the average wrestler against an average BJJ blue belt. BJJ wins 9/10 times and there is no “BJJ” rule set. Everything that’s allowed in wrestling is allowed in BJJ. However it doesn’t flow the other way, that’s because wrestling had a lot of short comings
@@Arcadianx98 there is a bjj rule set, because certain things are rewarded in bjj which aren't in wrestling and vice versa But there's this idea many bjj practitioners seem to have which is that bjj is the default, the ultimate. If a bjj practitioner loses in wrestling or smth it doesn't matter because they're just silly game sports, but when somebody who doesn't do jiu jitsu competes in the jiu jitsu rule set and loses, it's proof of bjj's superiority The bjj rules of submission as the only means to achieve victory is merely one perspective of simulating combat. All videos like this prove is that jiu jitsu practitioners are good at winning in jiu jitsu vs people who don't do jiu jitsu. I could equally put a jiu jitsu practitioner in a wrestling or judo or sumo or sambo match and they'd lose. But many would shrug and say "well it doesn't count because only bjj rules are REAL, the others are just for show"
I wrestled a lot and have done some submission grappling. There are "bad" habits that are tough for us to deprogram from (the quotes are because they are only bad in BJJ). We have to unlearn leaving our head hang out there, which is seen how he gets caught in a front guillotine (mostly a rookie loss). We are uncomfortable on our backs and have to unlearn giving up our backs. After that, we just don't know how to get a submission very well, because they are all moves that are illegal and considered dangerous in wrestling. If you're a smart wrestler, though, you can adapt pretty quick and be VERY tough to beat.
I’m a black belt BJJ and my son is a HS varsity wrestler and when he and I spar, he is not easy to bring down (JUST take downs and technique and not submission). Wrestlers are indeed a different breed of people.
Getting out of your comfort zone and playing someone else’s game is not only admirable but smart. You’ll basically be in a league all your own at the end of the day.
Carlos Gracie Jiu Jitsu are all about Power and Strong Takedowns, Hélio Gracie are Small and weak and he adapted the style for his body focused more on ground game.
I was a wrestler in Jr High and High school and think the creator did a great job of explaining the nuances of wrestling and the contrasts between BJJ. I think if everyone spent at least 30 seconds on the mat the world would be a much humbler place.
Josh is a natural grappler. His 20 Jiu Jitsu classes helped him a ton. I had about a year of Jiu Jitsu training with 0 wrestling experience and went against my older brother who made state semifinals and I tapped him in about 30 seconds. But that’s because he had zero idea how to prevent chokeholds and had zero BJJ experience. I think most wrestlers would be similar if they had just their wrestling knowledge and experience vs someone trained in BJJ.
Well done. Great video and a compelling progression hook to keep us eager to see how a highly skilled wrestler can apply his skills to the Jiu Jitsu context. Really strong colour commentary describing the techniques being employed. Well done, mate!
I think the key for Josh is in 2 points. If he has a good heart and a willingness to learn, he will get far. Good heart helps to not let yourself be lost on the martial arts journey, and a willingness to learn can add more to his repetioire, giving him more tools to add to his toolbox.
This really just depends on the person. On both sides. I’m sure there’s wrestlers that can muscle and finesse their way to a rear naked choke. And I’m sure there are BJJ guys that can sneak in a heel hook.
I'd like to see how well the black belt here would do against 6 wrestlers one after the other. I actually preferred the brown belts game against the wrestler which was more fluid and efficient
Great vid. Talent from all sides. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that wrestler sparred with increasing belt levels one after another. That’s insane that he wasn’t more gassed and makes this ranking maybe not as accurate. Imagine if he started fresh against each one. Maybe he had a huge amount of time to rest in between? What a beast
8:50 Man, I was just thinking about this today. My school doesn't really drill, just roll around (bunch of 30-40 year-olds meeting up after work to learn a move or two). One thing that has been a big transition for me has been the culture and pace. I haven't wrestled competitively since I was 20, but the moment I stepped on the mat I was ready to get after it. BUT no one else shared that sentiment haha. Jiu jitsu has been a challenge, but it's a blessing to be on a mat again!
This parallels what I have seen in our jui jitsu school. High level wrestlers can sometimes beat blue belts and rarely get submitted by them but purple is too much for them. They can’t submit a purple but sometimes ride them out for 5 minutes.
Olympic gold medal winner kevin jackson vs frank shamrock is a good one to watch. It shows how wrestlers get submitted when they dont have bjj experience. Once they start doing bjj their learning curve is definitely shorter, and they get good quick if they learn to slow down a little. BUT, now they're doing jiu jitsu not just wrestling. At that point its the person, not style vs style.
@@vikingbjj7 both the Shamrocks were wrestlers that learned submission grappling in Japan in the pro wrestling circuit there. This is pretty well known fact in their bios. Arm bars are not necessarily jiujitsu, it's common across multiple trad grappling disciplines
@droliver if you were training back then you'd know. Ken was ahead of Frank, and yes they def learned a lot in Japan. And that armbar from guard is pure jiu jitsu. A armbar from guard is not wrestling lol
Exactly what I would expect. Wrestling is a strong base but when you get to the brown and black belt levels there are going to be more tools on the ground that would win it.
The learning the armbar from watching MMA is something I'm surprised I've never heard anyone else mention, I have no martial arts gyms near me but have still learnt basic striking and grappling by watching UFC fights
, what are you guys even talking about? An arm bar is an incredibly easy move to learn and execute. Anyone with grappling and fighting experience can figure it out and implement it pretty easily 😂
Similar here. Been an mma fan for long, went to a few BJJ classes and had quite some success just by having an image of some of the situaitons I found myself in from fights. Other than RNC and guilottine, it wasn't so much about the submissions (too much technique missing) but the ability to recognize bad/good positions compared to someone who's not an avid mma fan. Even though I was mathcing the intensity of my sparring partners and not going crazy, being quite athletic at that time helped surely.
wrestler did AWESOME to handle all of those guys same session. He's in great shape. Having wrestled to 2nd in state, and also taking BJJ, it's REALLY difficult to be OK being on your back for a wrestler. I still have problems with it. I am deeply uncomfortable on my back, even though it's very safe in BJJ
Josh is well rounded, now we need to add striking. He did not fight high level judokas who practice free style combat Judo with striking. Great conditioning for Josh!
The most important thing this shows is how at pretty much every level of grappling, strength and athleticism determine much of the outcome. I'd honestly be more interested in a direct comparison of each individuals deadlift, bench, and squat.
