it is so comforting to find a person like who just does not jump on the hype train and can honestly compare the materials. I thank you with all my heart. Most of the "bike channels" in youtube do not even mention ever about steel or aluminium because they are cheaper and "not modern".
"if you only go ride to a grocery store, ride around the park leisurely, dont by a Pinarello F8, thats like buying a Ferrari to drive to your mailbox from your house" lol good one (Y)
Surprisingly, alot people who can afford that, actually buying the cars like this - not necessary a Ferrari, but a car which performance/style of riding they will never use.
There is something to the steel is real saying. I've never ridden a nice steel bike until I bought my Ritchey Ascent in 2017. It's just more comfortable than my other bikes. It's not the lightest but it just feels right. Not to mention that Oxblood color reminds me of my old Trek I had as a kid. So I'm sure there's some nostalgia at play. Lol. I love it so much that I might go the custom steel route for my next bike.
I actually planning to purchase one durable, long lasting and low maintenance bicycle. You gave me lots of ideas what to choose. Now I can start ordering one. Thank you so much...
Hi there, congratulations for this video. I like the way you breakdown the materials, uses and user preferences. However, titanium is more expensive than carbon. Carbon can be tricky when their procedence is unknown. I also like the way that you tell your viewers to got the bike they want based on their needs. I agree that if someone is an urban cyclist, a racing bike will not necessarily fulfill that cyclist needs. Good job.
I have 3 type of bikes from his list,Steel Bianchi super record,Aluminum Jamis icon pro and Colnago CLX also Kestrel talon, but so far i prefer steel.....i feel like riding a big truck so secure and fun.
Hi! Just swaped my carbon TCR for an alloy Bianchi! Also put my PM for sail on eBay. Got tired of looking at numbers and getting no feedback from the road. Now i have a beautiful machine 😎 and just attack hills looking forward and not at the computer...Thanks for the enlightment ☺️
Barnabe glad you found the channel. Thanks for sharing. I just use a heart rate monitor and only on my group rides. I don't look at it much, it just there to monitor my heart, as I have a history of high blood pressure and just like to review how my heart performs after the ride. I ride pretty much on feel. When I ride solo, I use RPE, the rate of perceived exertion and just gauge on a basis of 1-5, for my effort.
over the years ive learned so much from you watching your videos.one topic I wish would cover is head position,..Meaning how to look forward and not injure neck.while riding."Tech-neck" is becoming a big problem these days.Thank you sir.Now ive got to go get my "K'S"!!!
Just confirms what i always thought about frame materials and specific builds of it! I also prefer steel and titanium(for their function and also their great all time looks) then alu and last pick is carbon..
Glad I watched this... even though this video isn’t directly addressing a bike I was on the fence about, it definitely answers my question. I was just going to ask your opinion of cheaper bikes that are “comparable” to the big brands. Being rather new to cycling I’ve decided to upgrade my 1984 Lotus ( first road bike purchased a year ago) with the new Specialized Allez since you recommended it in one of your recent vids. But upon researching where to purchase it, I stumbled across a website with these cheaper “comparable” options. It was very tempting . I’ll just follow your advice. I’ve been riding this clunker for a while... I deserve it. 💪🏽
Great video and excellent explanation. For me, carbon is much more fun to ride, Ti would be a second choice, steel is for nostalgia, and Al would be the last choice.
As a matter of fact, steel has come roaring back into its own with the growing popularity of touring bikes and the availability of lighter, thinner steel tubing
Personally I'd pick titanium if I had to chose and steel if I were to go on an unsupported expedition because steel can be repaired by practically anybody anywhere. With carbon you have to worry about any scratch which goes through the paint. It would thus only be an option if I were a professional and someone else pays for my frames.
Just bought a used but pristine Titus Modena complete bike. It's carbon fiber tubes w/ alum. lugs. I've been lusting and searching for it for about 5 years. Amazingly, it's finger light, lighter than my Litespeed Ultimate. Though I haven't weighed either, I built my Litespeed with Chinese carbon fiber w/ 105 rims. My Modena has Bontranger rims and old Ultegra (polished alum not black) groupo. My Litespeed has a lighter bottom bracket but my Modena is a smaller frame w/ sloping top tube and is way more comfortable, higher headset but I still love both- trophy like. Keep them on my wall rack. Whenever I see them, I think, "There they are." Non bike riders wouldn't understand. Steel, take years to rust? Uh, depends where you live. In Hawaii, it would rust even if kept under covering. The air in Hawaii is so humid and full of sea salt and acid rain fallout. In Hawaii, you need to wipe/polish your steel bike about once every other month.
I bought a new lite speed t5 few years back and sold a year later. Ride felt somewhere between carbon and aluminum. Now have a Ritchey Logic and has been my favorite ride to date and I have owned all kinds of bikes from big box retailers to hi mod carbon. Steel is for real folks.
Excellent comparison and explanation of materials. Something I would add is steel is relatively easy to repair/weld, aluminum repairs can be a bit trickier to repair due to irreversible fatigue, titanium repairs are much more difficult due to titanium requiring high skill lever and specialized equipment, and carbon fiber repairs being extremely difficult if not repairable at all.
Hey bro, great video and explanation. I am currently in the process of reviewing a titanium bike on my channel and for that video, I would love to take some grabs from this video. Are you OK if I do this? I'll be sure to link to your channel in the video I create and give you credit! Cam
That's fine Cam. If you get a Copyright hit, just let RU-vid know that you have my permission and the hit will be removed, once they contact me. Not sure if you are aware but RU-vid automatically checks for snippets of videos that have already been loaded and can flag your use, so just be on the lookout. I am not sure what the release process if but if you get flagged, we can deal with it then.
You are so right... since last year I have a Caad12 aluminium bike....size 60, 105 groupset at 8.1kg with no pedals, weighted at home by me. Awesome frame and feel on the road, but also durable. Had an accident and the right rear of the frame hit the car and it only slightly bent. Used it for fast rides but mostly for long rides(did 2 weeks on it, almost every day riding on mix terrain and my body was fine, not to mention my back). Yes a carbon is more comfortable but it didn't feel right for me to buy it in terms of my weight, experience with road bikes and hell, wanted to have an aluminium that can rival my friends light carbon bikes ( theirs have 7-7,5 kg at more money than my 8.1 aluminium) Yes, quality and the right geometry is crucial. For the limitations of aluminium in time, now I will go with titanium because I want that versatility in use,that extra comfort and also the no rust feature, not to mention it will be a custom build.Second choice is steel so will try both and will decide after. Awesome job man. At those conclusions I got to myself, only after a lot of research before buying my first road bike, that Caad12.
Great video and I agree with all of your points. However, not all team riders ride their sponsor's bikes - often they have bikes custom made by other companies or custom builders but have them painted to look like the ones the sponsor bike company makes.
I'm mostly into touring bikes. Certainly titanium touring frames can carry the same load as steel without the worry of rusting, but many fewer manufacturers offer titanium touring frames. So, just deal with the rust problem on steel frames by rust proofing them right off the bat even before you build them up, assuming you build your touring bike up yourself, which is what you should always do! Why? Because a touring bike always has many more components than other types of bikes, and I've never seen an off the shelf touring bike that I would be happy with.
What kind of frame manufacturers you are referring to? Cause what I see on the market is: - steel is more expensive than aluminium. - Titanium is more expensive than carbon. so from my point of research, in terms of frame cost is more like: aluminium < steel < carbon < titanium
I honestly feel that if you have a limited budget, as I did, and can only afford a single bike, there’s no point worrying about the material. Balancing frame cost with componentry/furniture cost, build quality/value, making sure the geometry is appropriate, and the ability to dial in the fit, matter way more than material. At least to me, it matters not what it’s made of. If there’s s nice steel frame I want (eyeing that colnago), but can only afford a budget NOS aluminum frame, there is only one choice. If a steel frame rusts under my ownership and it wasn’t rusty before, that’s purely my fault and user error. And no one on a super tight budget is going to even be able to consider a titanium bike. In short, getting my sorry overweight butt onto a bike and onto the road is number one. Now if you have disposable income and are considering expanding that n+1 collection, ignore my ramblings.
Amen...it all begins with fit. The most expensive bike in the world is worthless if it doesn't or cannot be fitted to its rider, but for most people it makes sense to get a durable material for your 'one' bike and not have to worry about fragile materials. Your one bike should be a do anything bike and as mentioned in the video, fit is important for every choice.
Hi! Been following your material for some time now and love it! keep the good work! About the theme, I bought 6 months ago a B-twin 300 bike as my first road bike which comes with an alum frame and I love it and the harsh feel is almost nonexistence. I didn´t really expected to be so good and even though is "entry level" in comparison to others I don´t believe i`m loosing much to new models, is just as you say.. "It all begins with fit" :D Btw not sure if you remember but my plans about the road trip had to change due to life changes (girlfriend and work) but the bug of the "big trip" is still in me and now a days I can comfortably ride all day if I need to. tnx for the guidance and for the entertainment you provide on your channel! Obtém as tuas milhas hoje! "
Yes Ruben, I remember and I got my miles today...just finished an almost 6 hour ride. You are welcome, I am glad that you enjoy the channel and that it has helped you. As long as the bike you have fits you, you're good as gold, everything else is just subjective.
Always learning here! My goal now is to have a room like yours..I´m looking for a home to rent with my gf and my only request is to have a space for my sports/gaming stuff, when that happen I'm going to buy a steel bike/frame on a graveyard near my zone and restore it just for the fun, with some luck I can get one at +/- 20 dollars
Well Nicool333, I have owned high quality Carbon and currently own a Custom 3/2.5 Titanium Frame. The titanium cost about 50% of my comparable Carbon Frame. Anything can be made to be expensive but Carbon Frames with everything being equal are so overpriced that they run a lot more than the other materials.
Steel or Ti, equals lifelong bike! Aluminum, Carbon do not have the fatigue life of Steel or Ti. Also, these materials do not show their defects until they fail! There is a lot of BS out there about frame materials. Pro's get their bikes changed every year. A commercial carbon frame is not the same thing! Good advice here on bikes. Luckily, at 5'10" and when competing around 150#, a stock bike always fit me like a glove! I am afraid most people make to big a deal on the bike. The sad reality is personal fitness is going to be the biggest contributor to performance. Most bikes function just fine, just as you said in this video. By the bike that fits for the purpose that you will use it, that is good advice!!! I have an old Raleigh flat bar road bike that I purchased for commuting to work back when gas was ~$4.00 gal. It has a cheap Chinese aluminum frame, but guess what, it is still and climbs well. I still ride it to the bank, grocery store, YMCA, it has fenders, racks, and handlebar bag, weighs 30#. I still average about 90% what I average on my road bikes. That is not bad.
Yeah. I am frustrated with the excessive cost of bikes, which are becoming a barrier to entry into the sport. People need to remember that they're bicycles with no engine built in and should not cost Thou$and$ of dollar$. I for one have always struggled with the stock bikes as I am 6'2" and have to use really long stems or setback seatposts on stock bikes, which made me go custom, only to find the cost was not that different than the stock bikes, with the plus of getting frames that fit me easier.
Yeah, most people do not understand just how efficient a bicycle is. I tell my bike shop friends to sell more entry level bikes. For those that love it, it means another sale as they "trade up". For those that don't there is E-bay! On fairly level ground there just isn't that much difference in performance at speeds below 20 mph. When one is averaging better than that, well they have graduated to the realm of "cyclist" and a better bike is justified! I can't tell you the number of shops that I have been to that make the customer feel bad if they don't spend at least $2500 on a bike! I just walk away from people like that, then pass them on the road on my 41 year old steel bike!! Now, that is a good feeling!
@@ronbell7920 $2500! Jeez, for that much coin you might as well buy a recumbent so you at least get more comfort and speed. I never understood why anyone, other than UCI pros, would spend thousands only to settle for the archaic diamond frame.
I have a cannondale supersix evo on disc and also a specialised allez. I use the Specialised Allez for commuting to work and groceries in town and back. I use the Cannondale to go through cities with my mate. The Specialised is more comfortable even tho its aluminum. The Cannondale is faster and much more snappier, tho I can now accelerate a bit on Specialised because I got some DT swiss wheels on it and its lighter, but still not the same as Cannondale. I haven't had problems with rust on any of those since I started doing maintenance on them. I keep my Cannondale inside while leaving the Specialised outside. The chain only started rusting after 2 weeks of no maintenance, but kept itself no problems after I started spraying them with water after every wet ride. Now, I am kinda sad I do not have disc on the Specialised and Rim brake on Cannondale since I really lack braking power on Specialised while its raining and I'm scared of going faster. if I would to choose between them, Cannondale hands down. But for the price I paid for Allez 100 GBP, I would not be buying another bike if Specialised was first.
@@muhammadimamkhoiriza5407 and also harder to work with. Is hard to machine titanium or weld. Honestly on a budget I'd go aluminum for top tier greatness titanium. Also stainless steel would be a good choice. I'd ride in inclement weather rain and by the sea. So rust would worry me.
@@muhammadimamkhoiriza5407 I love titanium but it just doesn't have the molded look of carbon. As for price, the taiwanese make the best titanium frames for about the same price as carbon. If you order your titanium frame directly from Taiwan, it'll be the same price as a carbon frame.
Carbon is the most expensive and the lowest on durability and yet the 99% preferred choice :) My mind set will never reach modern cyclist levels. I got a steal bike, I thought it was aluminium but it turned out steal, I'm fine with it it was my first road bike. Now I know more and unless I can get a proper light steal frame I want to try aluminum. But I do prefer the thinness look of steal.
That’s because the average cyclist wants to ride what the professionals ride, even if it’s not the most practical choice. Regardless, it pays to shop for a good deal.
Thank you so much for the slap in the face wake up call.... We tend to dream and get caught up in "The newest thing". Im not racing but i definitely require efficiency. ❤
I hate how Fat looking road bikes are these days and don't at all care for the all black colored components either. Give me a nice sleek and elegant lugged steel frame with chrome components, drop outs, and other decorative frame accents and I'm in heaven man! I also prefer the older, simpler, far more reliable components. I don't need instant push button shifting I really don't. Old high quality friction shifters work just fine for me and have required absolutely zero maintenance on a bike that's now over 34 years old that I've been riding regularly for at least the past 21 years. In many ways I feel bicycle tech has gone backward these days when it comes to certain things. The bicycle seemingly becoming a less and less simple, reliable, and elegant design.
2 days ago I stop in one of the bike shop close to my home I saw a nice trek mountain bike all carbon selling for $7,500, I think the bike business is getting ridiculous .....cost more them a car...im done buying bikes I will keep my 13 bikes in shape and that's all.
Agree. They cost more than even a motorcycle that comes with an engine.. As long as people are willing to spend those dollars, they will keep pushing them and then when the sales slow, they have those 'sales' which brings it a lower level from the stratosphere they already occupy :)
Hi, I currently ride a planet X free ranger gravel bike set up as mullet because I ride mostly XC. While I like the carbon frame, and the lighter weight (9.4kg per manufacturer quote), I have been looking at the planet X rujo (steel frame 10.6kg) and the temperest (Ti frame 10.2kg). The price difference between a Ti and steel is £500/$650. With a overall difference of ~1kg, I am not sure the weight difference is significant enough. The steel weight can be reduced to the Ti when swapping the rival bite for the force 1 and s work carbon seatpost etc… and the cash difference can be put towards mtb carbon wheelset which would allow great accelerations. So what is the best material for gravel race and XC rides? Thanks
If I were choosing, I would just go with the Ti, because it can put up with a lot more, but don't get me wrong, the steel is right up there. I couldn't decide for the road, so I have two steel bikes and one Titanium. Either way, I like materials that will bend at their limit and not shatter.
@@Veloharmony i sort of get your comment about proportional strength of a given billet or tube size vs weight but, it s not the tube which is likely to fail, it will be the welds and heat affected zone. Ti weld requires tight controlled process and QCQA. Steel handling processes are more flexible. Ti weld cracking failure due to poor argon purge and cover does happen. Basically what I m saying is that by design, Ti might be better, by production, Steel might be better. So is Ti much much better than steel? And therefore worth the risk?
Those specifics comes down to the builder of the frame. Have not had a failed Ti Frame, but it happens. Have had Steel Frames that failed when I competed, but never fell apart or caused a crash. Just got them repaired and put them back into use. If you have a preference, go with it. I like both, but prefer the ride of steel over the durability of Titanium.
Augustin, it is possible to build a very expensive bike with any material, however, I have a titanium frame built at a comparable level of a Pinarello F10. My titanium frame costs 40% of the Pinarello F10 for the price range. I got the comparison from the builder who gave me the level my frame falls in.
If we are to generalise I tend to mostly agree with Augustin here. You can obviously make very expensive bikes using both materials and top end carbon might still wear the crown for being the most pricey. However, in my experience entry level carbon is now cheaper than entry level titanium. Niche steel frames for enthusiasts who swear by it due to ride quality (and perhaps nostalgia) can be quite expensive also. Aluminum (or aluminium for those of us outside US) is most commonly used in bikes where value is playing a role since it seems easiest to hit a good compromise between cost, weight and durability with this material at present. Carbon might slowly be catching up as manufacturing processes become increasingly efficient though. Anyhow, as usual the advice from Eldred is good. I must admit that it also gave me some second thoughts about recently having bought a carbon framed bike that I'm only going to use for recreational riding and longish commutes (I have about 25 miles/40 km to work each way). I will regret if my new frame doesn't last a long time so maybe durability should have been a higher priority than looks and slight aerodynamic advantages.
Probably need to flip aluminum and steel in that list as per cost, least expensive frames at AL now, good new steel frames can be quite expensive due to their rarity.
Welcome to the channel. You don't need to be rich to get a TT bike. Just plan and get your size and shop. There are countless deals on used bikes on Ebay, that will save you $$$. Good Luck.
Very informative video, thank you. Although, please tell me where I can find a great yet affordable steel bike. All the steel frame bikes I’ve found are all in the $3k to $7k range.
@@Veloharmony There are many great steel framesets on offer in the US. I just bought a Soma Saga, then had it shipped to Bilenky in Philly to install couplers, the whole thing for $1500 (with the shipping case). So I say, build it up yourself!
Once again an excellent video!👌 I want to thank you for your emphasis on bike fitting. I was ridding an awful fit for two years. I've got a new carbon frame bike last autumn and was wondering if it was the wrong size etc.. Past days I was able to get a nice fit, watching videos and reading a lot, and my first ride was just awesome. Night to day difference. Cadence much better, handling much better, and confort much better. Amazing! I was ridding with a 10 cm saddle to bar drop (didn't know about this)! I was having a pain on my right trapezius. And couldn't ride in the drops. Now my saddle to bar drop is about 6.2 cm. Do you think it is to much?? I cannot ad more spacers, and I don't like an inverted stem. I'm asking because last amazing ride after ridding awile in the drops I started to get a slightly pain in the same spot. But maybe this was my muscle still not fully recovered from previous bad fit rides or maybe my saddle to bar drop is still to much? Sorry for the long text. Also by lifting the bars I was able to reduce almost 2 cms in reach! I was a bit stretch foward and had to lower my back to much so I could bent my elbows! Just one more thing, my stem is - 8° if I switch it to a - 6° I'm able to reduce a bit my saddle to bar drop. Once again sorry for the long text and thank you for your great videos! 💪
If you'd like our help, just signup for our remote fit assistance, I think you would be a good candidate for it.www.veloharmony.com/product/veloharmony-remote-bike-fit-assistance/
No professor from any university would’ve explained this in such a CLEAR way.... it depends... you’re not gonna buy a Ferrari for its ability to go off road.... you won’t buy a f 150 just for the speed.... you gotta have your ideas very clear in your head so you can choose your perfect bike.... that beautiful Bianchi won’t serve you for everything .....
I bought a carbon bike recently 5months ago. But now the paint is tearing due to normal use as shop says. I'm planning to shift to titanium. Does it have the same ride feel for carbon and titanium?
They sell carbon as the most expensive one but to manufacture most 2 grand frames are worth 500$ at best. The only manufacturer i can think of that's produced in the west would be ENVE.
There are alot of bikes/wheels made in the west, but cant see how that is something special(?) and if you want a low price, you might not want the wages to be the most expensive part of your bike. So why not have one from Taiwan? And the 1500$(lets just say you are right on that one) is for the whole company and retailer(s) to keep on going and evolving, thats pretty basic stuff.. If there was any business in making 500$ frames, that are as good as the 2 grand frame, there would be a company doing it. Marketing, sponsorship, wages for more employees, making better frames/wheels, expanding into new countries etc isnt cheap.. But you can always buy a no-name frame from china, if price is the most important..🎉
Just subscribed and the passion you have is amazing man...Thank you for sharing with us ..I was going to buy a planet X Spitfire Titanium for £1549.00 down from £1799.00..As at the moment I have a Trek Emonda2016 S5 54cm Carbon road bike and ..want to change over to Titanium once I have sold my bike ..The bike comes with Ultegra 8000/ and has vision aero wheels ..My question is to you Sir is whether you think this is to cheap a deal?! They say the Titanium used is 3/15/Av? ! And against this I was considering buying just a Lynskey Helix pro Frame only and doing my own build ..The titanium used is higher grade 460/and is half price rrp is £2800.00..and nd had 45% off and is now £1400/ I have read that it's Aero space Titanium the Lynskey pro Helix frame and has no forks ..So I would have to buy all other parts and do it up from scratch by the bike shop mechanic. .And I was wondering which road to go down ..I know what I want to use it for Touring and bike packing around Scotland and USA. .next year ..going on a cycle camp with Vegan Cyclist. .Sorry it's a long message ...Thanks Paul Conway Liverpool England
I think the price is great on both of them, but you get a higher grade with the Lynskey. If you are not in a rush and can take to time to build it up, then I would go with the Lynskey, since you'll be getting a higher grade and can control what components you choose to build up with. I prefer where possible to build my bikes. All of mine were built in house after purchasing the frameset, even my Colnago. The key is to make sure you are buying a frame size that fits you.
@@Veloharmony cheers Veloharmony I was thinking the same thing ...that the Lynskey 460/ Aerospace titanium ..and like you says you can forget about weak frames ...I will go for the self build and buy the frame and get a good bottom bracket?!?! and possibly some..Spinergy Zero lites. .With pBO spokes and bombproof hub's. .$799// to put on the bike ...what group set what you recommend on a Titanium bike Sir?! And what wheels and group set do you have on your bike Sir ?! So you can buy a solution from a bike shop to stop rusting internally? !
Nowadays you don't have to worry about internal rust, especially with Titanium, which will never rust. As for a groupset, it's really up to what your prefer. I use Campanolo. Shimano is also very good. Then after you decide the brand, you can decide if which groupset within the brand you want. I saw that you watched the video I made about all the campy groupsets. You can't go wrong with either to them. It really comes down to your budget for the groupset.
Good video. Do you think modern Hydroformed aluminum frame will compensate for relatively harsh ride of aluminum frames? I don't. Do you think carbon has a dead feel that never can match steel's lively road feel? I do. How much of the road feel comes from the forks anyway? A lot--maybe 70%. Most of the carbon and titanium frame bikes already come with a carbon fork. Even aluminum bikes usually have a carbon fork now days. I suppose after riding relatively aggressive road bike with Easton Elite tubing (top drawer with 5 stage seat stay) with carbon forks for the longest time, I went back to a double butted chromoly frame and forks and haven't looked back. Even though the aluminum bike costed way more it had way inferior ride quality. Steel frame of course has a weight penalty but for commuting, it is more that sufficient. I know you advocate test riding a bike before you buy. If everyone did that, I would think there would be way more steel frame and forks in the market than there are aluminum, carbon fiber, and titanium bikes combined in every price range. I really wonder if you can feel that much difference between a higher end steel frame like something with Reynolds 953 tubing or like your Colnago DT15V vs a common Reynolds 520 aside from the obvious weight difference? Stiffness of steel is the same so the remaining difference becomes thinner walls, diameter of the tubes, and some shaping of tubes (especially hydroformed steel from Bianchi and Breezer). Drooling over your Colnago Master. DeRosa also has a few lugged steel bikes from 2017. Is there that much difference from a Bikesdirect Motobecane Titanium bike and a Litespeed or Merlin? I think there's no substitute for steel.
Hard to say emikami1, with the aluminum frames. I have never owned and actually I prefer steel first and titanium second, both of which I own. Been there done that with Carbon and my experience was that the carbon felt 'dead'. I love the dampening properties of steel.
@@Veloharmony yeah you did for yourself ...and for us the people you picked titanium. ..Sometimes others..... help us along the way to making these choices and decisions in life ..Even if it's what bike to pick ..But man you talk like Martin Luther King ...and am guessing you maybe a teacher or a X ARMY man ...because when I watch your video ..I Believe you ....Your not saying buy one or the other your just laying a sound foundation for Novices like me ....Thank You Sir for taking the time to reply ..Paul Conway Liverpool England. ..I look forward to seeing more of your videos ......
You're welcome Paulo. Glad you found the channel. I just think it's best to inform people and just let them choose based on what their needs and budget allow.
