Stem Length and Handlebar Comparison - Let’s Go Racing Season 2, Episode 4 

#1 most important thing about cockpit setup is renthal color that makes you go much faster

This is by far the best series about bike setup I've watched. So much unbiased information with explanation in great detail. Keep it up mate! 👍

Brian, you are the man. Finally someone with a great criteria about sweep and how it affects geo and rider position (relaxed/aggressive). Really like this series, the best of luck for the races to come!

This episode is really interesting, never thought that bars and stems will effect so much on your riding performance. Thanks Brian for these explanations, I'll try other cockpit setups for sure.

You can see he´s a real flatpedal rider , keep it up bro!

Don’t forget grips. A couple of my friends in the race scene recommended ODI longnecks and they truly are a game changer

This is freaking awesome! Such useful content. Thank You!

This was awesome. It's definitely something I like to play with as well. I am 6'3" just for setup reference. Currently running a OneUp 35mm rise bar 800mm width on a 40mm stem with no spacers above and holding on to DMR Deathgrips which I think had a big part in eliminating some of my arm pump as well. Tried ANVL aluminum bars and ENVE M7 carbon bars and none felt as good as the OneUp.

After riding MTB since more than 5 years I can finally understand most of the things mentioned. Thx for getring deeper into this! It surely matters to me

Nicely done. Nuanced and informative. Useful. Thanks.

Tons of great info. Keep the vids coming.

Good stuff. You remind me of Neko Mulally in the way you explain things.

I run oneup carbon bars with a 40mm stem on my specialized status and absolutely love it

I’ve got the Burgtec 42.5 stem with a 35mm rise 780mm wide OneUp bar on my 2021 Rocky Mountain Altitude and love it!

This is quite literally the best. Please keep making these. Excellent reviewer and review style, with helpful clarifications. Makes gmbn look like amateurs.

Well done Brian. I made equal stemlength-conclusions on my elder Fully. With a longer stem it tends to oversteer in corners and really bites into the ground, what is sometimes much too hard to handle and I crash. With a shorter stem the steering is much more neutral, so I can slide mostly controlled on both wheels through the corners.

Awesome! Good instincts - great explanation.

Excellent breakdown. Thank you

I had good luck with the SQ lab bars as well. 12 degrees of backsweep and 5 degrees up. Carbon or alloy. I run the PNW bar on my DH bike.

Going from a 40mm stem / oneup bar to a 50mm stem / pnw bar. Goal is to get more weight over the front and hoping this new setup helps me get there. Really helpful to hear about your experiences on the different cockpit setups.

So interesting that riding the BME at Brianhead lead me to this video. And the fact he mentioned arm pump at BH is spot on. Brian Head is so fun but ROUGH!

Watching from Australia. This video is so informative!

Good discussion on effect of stem length. For alpine skiers, it's a little like native turn radius of the ski. But inverted. Shorter stem is more like GS ski (21 ish R), longer stem more like SL ski (12 ish R), in how it affects steering & turn entry. I'd bet your finding 45mm as the best length has more to do with your Reach and ETT on the bike you're riding. A person with different proportions of arm, torso, leg lengths could be same height as you, on same bike as you, but finds differently on the stem lengths. Also depends on how much turn-in assist you want when the bike is essentially neutral, so there's some rider preference involved.

You can tell someone who really rides by there shins! Those scars and cuts are earned. Even with pads they can take a beating. Great video keep riding!

I have the same experiences with everything you said. I've noticed that this arm pump thing comes from a too long reach and the handpain comes if the bar is rolled to far backwards. Therefore I use a short 35mm stem and the bars slightly rolled forward. I don't like my 46mm offset. Front wheel is too far away and the bike doesn't want to go straight.

Running Sam Hill Bars and Sam Hill 35mm length stem. They were both on sale at CRC at the time and i always liked a higher upsweep handlebars. Great upgrade from the stock aluminum 35mm diameter handlebars that my Norco Sight came with, that just killed my arms.

Great videos,, keep it up!!!

Great video 🤘

Thank you! I just got an older BMC Team Elite TE03 bike to get into MTB this summer and it's been super fun! I'm 185 cm tall and got the L frame, and it's been quite good! I've already changed quite a few things, trying to make it better and feel better! The brakes were the first thing to go, I put Shimano Deore MT600 on and they feel awesome! Got new tires (the one on the bike were toast (Vittoria Barzzo 2.25 up front and Continental Cross King 2.20 back). Got a wider, 760 bar with some rise instead of the stock 720 mm flat one, feels much better! But the bike still feels kind of hands heavy so I'm thinking of getting more rise (30mm) and trying a shorter stem as well (the current one is 75 mm so I wanted to try a 50 mm) I'll try and see how it works :)

Just fitted the Stooge cycles moto bar. 38 mm rise,17 deg sweep. Can't wait to try em out

Mega interesting ! bars are so important there are so many fashion victims out there 🤓

Running oneup carbon bar with 50mm stem on 2021 carbon np mega. I was getting arm pump after a full day of sending and these bars certainly helped.

I'm running those same PNW bars on a 50mm stem (bike came stock with the 50mm stem) and running the bars out at 780mm and it is a real comfortable setup for me. The PNW bars really do help reduce arm pump.

I’m really happy with my OneUp bars. Those are paired with a Bergtec stem on my SC Bronson.

Great video! One Up carbon for me. I like them, but haven't tried any other modern bars size I have no complaints. Maybe I should experiment. I feel frame size, frame geo, fork offset and stack height also comes into play with cockpit set up. For example, I'm 5'-11" and on the bubble between a M and L for the frame I'm riding. I chose to size down to a M and a 50mm stem with a stack of 16mm and a 44mm offset fork works well for me and my riding style and terrain. As always YMMV.

PNW Bars (at 770mm width) - 100% agree with everything you've said - I love them. 40mm stem, but intrigued to find a 45mm, also find I run the bars pretty low (stack) on the 29'er (vs the old 27.5) We also have Nukeproof Bars (31.8 & 38mm rise at 740mm width) on the groms rowdy hardtail, and they feel pretty good, almost as nice as the PNW's ;) On a 50mm HZN stem.

Recently tried OneUp bars. Interesting thing about the setup being, lining the marks up with the head angle. I found the bars to be uncomfortable. After rolling them 12 degrees aft (66 degree head angle, bars on 78 degrees), the bars felt much better. I haven't ridden them much, so cant speak for compliance but the comfort is generally better... I've also found a happy medium with steering with a 55 or 60mm stem... Seems to be what I've liked with several bikes...

Well explained well done review👍

A great vid , thank you!

Great video. Any thoughts on how the bar does for climbing? Thanks!

I have the burgtec 35mm stem with the burgtec carbon downhill 30mm rise bar and it works great with my enduro. I’m looking into the 42.5 burgtec stem tho

The problem with going down that rabbit hole is that you just have to buy cheap stems and bars (and keep them) so that you can experiment on what feels right. It made a huge difference on how centered I feel on my Canyon Spectral. I finally got it right; at least I think I did. Currently I run a 40mm stem with a 8/5, 20mm rise 35mm raceface bar. However, that is just what works with me and my bike. The info on the PNW bars and the Nukeproof bars was very interesting. I'll get one of each probably.

My personal go to setup is a 31mm Renthal Apex stem and a set of Renthal Fatbar V1’s with a 30mm rise, cut down to 760. It livened up the handling of my 2021 GT Force pretty well, makes the front end damn near telepathic when it comes to placing the front wheel where I want it to be. Plus the more aggressive positioning helps with my right wrist, which I broke a few years ago. Takes strain off of the outside, upper right of it.

Your thoughts on stem length, do you find this true on most bikes or just your current bike with the 45mm length stem ? What geometry aspects would you look at on a bike to best guess what stem length to try first ? My bike came with a 50mm but I would be more comfortable with a little less reach. Downsizing a frame made me feel like I was way over the front of the bike so I went with the bigger frame, thinking I could shorten the stem and push my saddle forword. But this video has me second guessing how short I can go with my stem. But I don't wanna buy 3 stems...

Wow. I never thought about the relationship of stem length to axle offset!

Syntace do the Vector carbon in 12 degrees, which is both compliant and a good fit (and very well made). It's as compliant as the One Up, as I have that bar too. You need to run a slightly longer stem though, to put the grips in the same place as a 8deg backsweep bar.

Was away and I got the bar roll a little off resulting in arm pump, rolled it forward a smige and arm pump disappeared. Tweak and test ftw!

I have been struggling with bike size for a while, the medium I found a bit cramped in the cockpit but the large is way too long in the wheel base (2022 jekyll). I'm going to up the stem by 10mm in length and see how it feels on the medium, should calm the steering down a little also

@briancahal I had a scaphoid surgery and moved to the PNW bar, lol. Great context and thanks for the video. For reference what's your height and inseam? Also out of curiosity, what measurements if any are you using for bike sizing that works for you? Thanks!

👌great video, im trying to dial in my ride with bar an stem combos. Im running a 50mm stem and 800mm width bar, but i feel a little stretched over the front wheel🤔so ive decided on 780mm bars and maybe a slightly shorter stem🤔possibly a 45mm or 40mm stem, but dont wanna push too much weight towards the rear😅like you said, its about balance👌any advice would be very helpfull👍

Probably also important to discuss stem length and steering but in regards to how you personally fit the frame and recommended reach. different size stems are going to have very different effects based off of how you fit on the frame otherwise we are just talking about abstract numbers because different numbers could have the same effects that you discuss based off of rider fit.

I'm interested if anyone had pnw and oneup! I was really curious which of the two would have the best comfort on descents!

+1 for the one up, reduced arm pump for me in a big way. At 6'1 I run 45mm i9 stem and 800mm x 30mm rise.

You could try to rock your bars back a touch … might help that slight oversteer? Excellent video!!

Currently running the OneUp 35 mm rise bars at 800 width, with an i9 A35 40 mm stem in the -8 degree rise orientation. This netted me a +12 mm change in rise from the factory Ibis 15 mm rise bars on m Ripmo AF. Pretty comfy, but I still feel the bars are too wide. I'll likely cut them to 780, though I'm thinking 760-ish will be the sweet spot. Awesome series Brian, I've learned a lot from you in season 1 & 2.

Running the Spank Vibrocore and it made a definite difference for me

Backsweep, bar roll (plus height) and stem length all affect cockpit reach. I have a very short stem (35mm) but because I have a Renthal 40mm bar that is rolled quite far forward I have a ‘normal’ weight distribution but with the elbow position I prefer. Having tall bars puts more weight on the front wheel than running a flatter bar with a bunch of spacers, especially on a slack head angle.

? IYO does a mullet bike have a significant effect on choice of stem length? If so should I try a bit longer or shorter stem? I run alum Deity 38 rise 40 mm stem 3 spacers I’m enduro/DH focused riding in Lake Tahoe.

Spank makes a 43 mil stem and their vibrocore bars are fantastic. not super compliant but you don't feel any vibration at all which made it fantastic for my wrists

Could you tell me your height please interested to know in relation to your 760mm bar width.great video and explanation thanks for uploading

Syntace Vector for me lately. How about stacked spacers height under stem? Bar height compared to seat height? Seems like an important setup measurement.

Diety and Chromag also have really good options in the 35 mil clamp variety 👍

opening shots - how much fork travel are using in those turns! Almost all of it??

I have a 42mm Funn Equaliser stem with a 10mm reversable rise matched with a 780mmwidth/20mm rise Oneup bars on 160mm Pike=perfect for my HCHT!

I love my 800 mm bar to make my steering less sensitive and more precise. Also, the wide bar gave me support and confidence when doing jumps and drops.

Brian do you mess with bar roll between trails or races? Do you have a goto roll position that works well for most trails?

Trek Rail: One up handlebar 770mm 35rise and SixPack Millenium Stem 45mm Commencal Meta AM29: Renthal alloy 770 30rise and Renthal Stem 40mm I prefer the compo of my Trek!

great vid....

Do like my PNW range bars . Feel really good with very little to no wrist pain or arm pump.

I thought for neutral riding (ie not oversteering/under steering) you ‘match’ the stem to your Fork offset. However finding 42/44mm stems is pretty tricky as most are 40mm or 45mm as examples. Same for 29” and 51mm offset, chances are you will have a 50mm stem length ;) You could use bar roll to maybe get that extra few mm’s if needed. Handlebar width, a good starting point is to get into a push-up position and adjust your hands slightly until it feels the most comfortable, then get someone to measure outside to outside hand. This will be you bar width starting point. Go wider if unsure as you can’t stick the cut-offs back on … ;) Great information though - Thank you

I've been considering the spank vibrocore bars because I have wrist issues as a result of being an old fart. Curious if you've tried that since, or ever. Supposed to help with vibration and fatigue and such.

How do you decide on bar roll? Do you run them all the same?

I really liked the dive into bike balance with this, very often overlooked. I feel like simplifying it to just stem length as being the main factor determining handling characteristics is a bit off the mark. What’s really being effected with this is steering/handlebar offset, which the stem and bar combine together to determine. A 40 stem, combined with a super high degree backsweep bar like the SQ Labs 16 would handle completely differently than a Renthal/40 combo. It would be interesting to account for steering/handlebar offset in future tests if you get the chance.

quick trick.. bar width for average length arms.. body height in cm x 4.4 example: if you're 170 cm tall, by 4.4 is 748 (mm) - round up to 750 bars. bar "rise" is somewhat dependent to the bikes' specific "stack". and that varies by brand and model so there's no quick fix there.. test out the TAG metals carbon bar for us.. im running a set and they seem damn good.

I don't have issues with arm pump or wrist pain. But I wear my grips out really fast on the outside of where my palm goes. Just wondering if this is due with incorrect bar set-up with maybe the back sweep, or maybe incorrect riding style? I'm running renthals btw. So I guess I just learned they're pretty flat

Does someone ride or did test vibration dampening handlebars? Got an SQ-lab FL-X (12° backsweep) and a Spank Oozy Vibrocore - now i''m wondering about the PNW models.

What is your height in cm? Are you measuring 108 top of grip or centre of bar? What size frame?

bec my ride discipline trail/enduro , sometimes downhill not always so my set up handlebar set up 20mm rise with 760mm wide and my stem is 35mm length

50mm RevGrips Billet stem with Renthal Carbon Fatbar cut at 780. On a Fatboy Carbon. I'm 6'4 and seems to work well for me

Shout out to Spank for offering 60mm rise DH bars

head angle is a key component of the stem length conversation along with stack height, even bar raise and roll, they all play together to put the riders weight and leverage in a optimal position for that bike and riders style. I tried a 35mm stem and 40mm raise bars on my transition spire and it was scary, the front end wanted to wash out on every flat turn and I felt like I was in the back seat, put that same stem and bars on my YT izzo blaze and it completely transformed that bike into a much better handling smoother cornering and more confident descending bike. really great conversation though that I have not really seen many videos go into such depth to compare and discuss. awesome content .

I'm a short dude, and was riding 780mm handlebars, cut it to 760 and you are right, mostly because I'm short, it feels better. I'm curious about what you say about stems, I have a 35mm long, and now I want to try a 50mm. I don't know if that has something to do with the fact that I remember to be more agile on a previous hardtail which had 60mm stem and a 740mm handlebar than I feel on my current Giant Reing, I know some of that feeling is because of the weight, but now I'll have to try some cockpit setup. Nice video.

6'2 on a L Trek Remedy I use Title 50mm Rise 31.8mm bars with a 50mm stem and 30mm spacers under the stem. Feels great on dirt jumps and when doing tricks but it's not as good in bikeparks and enduro rides.

Do you use the 35 mil version of the PNW bar?

GREATINFO I AM RUNNING THE Sonoma Dream bar they cameat780 mil I have cut them760 .I am going to try 700 Thanks for all your help.

more on bar rise please

Interesting theory comparing stem length to fork offset but I doubt that's really what's happening. The fork loads the axle, you load the steerer tube. What you're noticing is the steering offset I believe.

How tall are you Brian? 760mm is Isabeau Cordurier’s width bar. It doesn’t make sense to me

I have a felt and it came with a 60 mm stem and 760 mm bar. I’m 5’6 so I’m thinking it’s to long of a stem and to long of a bar.

Foam grips. Didnt believe they made such a big difference, but they did.

I too like 760mm width, might have to play with stem length

I used to think the "cockpit" was BS! Maybe because I never had issues. I've always ran Ibis stock cockpit - alloy stem and bars. On my most recent bike, I'm running Ibis Carbon bars and Thompson stem. I'm old school and have always thought Carbon bars are sketchy since they are more prone to fail. However, Carbon has gotten better over the years. So, I was pleasantly surprised how great they felt and how relaxed my wrists, etc. are. I've tried the PNW because they are so popular. My only gripe is that they seem too light. Even the Ibis Carbon have a little more weight. The ones I tested were 31.5. Maybe the 35's have the right amount of weight? I understand a lot of Pro riders prefer PNW over other more expensive brands so there has to be a good reason for that.

I'm running the one up 35mm stem and bars at 760mm. I like em. I'm short at 5'6" so I'm curious if maybe narrower might work better.

Hey good stuff🤟 what is your height if I may ask?

Arm pump, or any hand issues..? Spank vibrocore

Bar roll is another factor to consider.... Grips also play their part & then fork setup too... if that ain't right 🫣

One critical aspect not mentioned is bar roll. You can adjust that without buying anything new, and so many people overlook it! It's crazy how many people have their bars set up with the rise matching the head angle. I guess it looks cool? But I guarantee most people would be better served with rolling them more forward than that.

Very interesting thought on matching stem length with fork offset. Hard to think the physics that such noticable change from 40, 45, and 50mm.

talking about weight distribution , i've been toying with this idea of having one weighing scale under each wheel and with the rider on top , find out how each wheel is weighted. and how each change of bike fit variable can change the distribution. yes i get that mtb position is dynamic , but this argument can be said about every bike fit variable , and what is the response to that argument ? it will provide a great starting point to know how your weight is distributed

Great content. Lots of folks seem to talk about buying a new bike when these less costly options can dramatically change the feel of your ride. The cheapest upgrade of all is tinkering with spacers. At a buck a piece or less stem spacers can change your ride tons for low effort and cost. When getting a new fork don't be in a rush to cut the steerer tube super short for the clean look before you've played with spacers above and below the stem.