You forgot to put a compression strap on the cells. They expand and shrink as charging cycles are completed and can potentially reduce charge cycles from 3500 to 2500. Very good build but can benefit from a compression system plus a Bluetooth dongle for Daly bms.
Nice build? Shows banding metal tape, which is kinda important for these batteries then use sticky tape only.. No discussion about checking batteries and balancing. Guess that negative cable will magically stretch to reach post. How does one connect anything to the battery pack? Very incomplete video.
012922/1529h PST. Bradley , you be able to make the top cover (insulator) all by yourself. you could make it with thick cardboard, or Acrylic. If you have a store close by, who makes Plastic signs, you may be able to buy scrap cut pieces from them. Have you heard of TAP Plastics? good luck.
Not bad but I spotted some things that would make this build much better. #1@ 02:29 you really need to clean the surfaces with 90% IPA and allow to evaporate before applying the adhesive tape. #2 @ 04:20 This is the time to apply a coat of conducive / anti corrosion paste to the flat area o the battery terminals and to the treads. Also to the bottom of the buss bars before assembling. Also I would only install one buss bar at a time to mitigate risk of shorts. #3 @ 04:38 I would have drilled and tapped the bus bars for the balance connections and use the correct crimp for 22g wire. Then you lemonade the need for soldering. Also I wouldn't cut the balance wires as that small of a gauge wire resistance can change very easily with length. This will effect the efficiency of the BMS. Or at very least cut them to the same length. Normally the longest run from the BMS to the furthest connection giving some slack to work with. Over all good info.
In this case the battery cell cases themselves act like the heat sink to cool the heat sink off. I n practicality the cells themselves will not get warm to touch even with extended 100 amp use maybe with extended 200amp use slightly warm but not hot. You could only run a 200 amp load for max of 51 minutes till charging needed.
if your giving instructional videos, you should use proper size wire with proper lug size and correct crimper. a crimp connection does not need to be solder. there is an old saying. "do it right or don't do it at all".
@@randybobandy9828 I appreciate you as an active participant. I have been watching through all the comments and nobody is as active as you. Your comments have been very educating to me and I am very thankful to you dear
@@HighTechLab You're not being consistent, here. On the one hand, you think that just riding down the road in an RV with busbars connected is going to fatigue the terminals. But, on the other hand, you aren't worried at all about picking the pack up by the bus bars. How do you reconcile those two things? I don't mean to be pedantic, but you are putting yourself out there like you're a professional and showing others how to do this stuff. And, I can immediately see problems with your methods. And, I am not a professional. I'm just in the process of putting my own 23,040 watt-hour 51.2 volt system together. So, I've spent months doing lots of research on how these batteries should be treated and how they work.
It's quite simple, and I'd be glad to further explain. The terminals can easily support picking up the batteries one, two, even ten times, really there is no limit. The direction of the force picking up the batteries is vertical, thereby putting tensile stress on the terminals, which they can withstand very well. Tensile strength is the resistance of a material to breaking under tension. In this case I am putting the studs under tension which is no issue, in fact the clamping force from the wire/buss bar securing nuts applies further tensile force on the studs than I ever do by picking up the batteries. This has absolutely nothing to do with them going down the road. Shear strength is the strength of a material or component against the type of yield or structural failure when the material or component fails in shear. A shear load is a force that tends to produce a sliding failure on a material along a plane that is parallel to the direction of the force. When batteries are installed in a vehicle, especially set in a battery box like the one we used in the video, things can move from side to size, especially if not secured with the VHB tape like we use. They can't really go up/down, because things like the lid and gravity constrain them, so in this application, tensile strength never comes into play. Without VHB tape, they can move around side to side, in two directions, which now applies shear forces to the side of the studs on the top of the battery. The studs are not as capable of withstanding shear force . What this means, is to best protect the terminals from the force they are not best suited for handling. To accomplish this, we applied the VHB tape to effectively eliminate the presence of any shear forces, preventing issues with the terminals entirely. If the batteries do not have the VHB tape, there is nothing holding these batteries from moving independently, thereby causing this exact shear force that the batteries cannot handle as well as the tensile force and leading to damage. To summarize, there are two different forces coming into play in each example, one of them (Tensile) the pack can handle well, and the other (Shear) the pack cannot handle as well. It's not an apples to apples comparison to say lifting them by the terminals is bad and not putting VHB is just as bad.
@@HighTechLab So, you're going down the road with your batteries. Tell me, what are you going to regularly encounter while doing that that would cause one battery to move in a different direction than the batteries on either side of it, while attached by a busbar - and, do it so many times that it literally rubs so much that it eats through both the plastic AND the aluminum case of the batteries? Why can't you just admit that your suggestion of such a thing occurring is so unlikely as to make your assertion of how important it is to stick them together with VHB tape absurd? That is the point I am making. It's a simple one and easily conceded by someone whose ego isn't standing squarely in the way. I get it that it makes it easier and safer to move the pack in and out of the box with the tape. I get it that it makes sense for the pack to not flex when being handled to reduce stress on the terminals. What I don't get is your absurd notion of friction rubbing through the plastic and aluminum case of the batteries from riding down the road.
@@richardowens9061 you are a putz. Vibration just from traffic just going by your house can abraid much thicker insulation on loose wiring in that house over time. So you would be comfortable having only 1 mil of plastic keeping your battery from a dead short at 300 amps.
Can someone explain to me the mechanics of how those batteries - connected by busbars - are going to rub against each other enough to wear through the cases of the cells, making it 'important" to use the VHB tape between them?
They are connected by bus bars, but the bus bars are not mechanical fasteners. If you installed these, say in an RV, that drives down the road, vibrations from going down the road would cause this wear and could also cause fatigue on the terminals.
@@HighTechLab No, they wouldn't - at all. And, if you're so worried about terminal fatigue, why on Earth did you pick them up by the busbars - stressing the terminals directly - to put them in the box, rather than turning them on their side along with the battery box and gently pushing them in?
the difference is when I picked them up, I was asking the terminals for tinsile strength, which they have _plenty_ of. The movement caused by something like driving down the road would cause shear force on the terminals instead, which is not what they are designed for. It's good practice to keep things securely fastened to each other. If you had something like a clamping device to hold the entire battery pack so no movement is possible, that's another option. We just find it easier to slap some VHB on there, as it's cheap, strong, and has a proven track record for keeping things securely fastened.
It's not the busbars that risk rubbing, the cells themselves could rub against each other and break the shrink wrap layer. The entire cell under the shrink wrap is the negative terminal so it will instantly short if those shrinkwraps wear through.
I really think the way you put the VHB tape on the outer edges is not a good idea. These cells have a tendency to budge/swell in the center of the flat side of the cell. Actually the MGR suggest some compression on the cells otherwise there is a reduced life span. The is a known problem that is documented in many places including other videos. With the VHB tape as you have it you have made a air gap between the cells right in the area that they budge the most. The other down side of the VHB tape is if you every have one bad cell it is going to be really hard to get them apart for repair.
Based on our information and independent testing, the swelling isn't an issue at the C-rates we advertise and rate these batteries for. At continuous discharge above 1c rate, which these batteries _could_ do but we do not recommend, would require compression for the swelling, and then yes, you are right about the swelling. The life span difference is a couple hundred cycles difference on a 6000 cycle curve, our customers likely will never reach that many cycles, and if they did, that's what our warranty is for. For seperating, you can just run a plastic blade between the cells, commonly available at hardware stores, and then once seperated remove any residue.
VHB tape. Nope.. no thanks. You can now no longer replace a battery pack and also, compression to lengthen the battery life. These cells swell in the centers and need to be held in check. Use a thin plastic cutting board as a space instead
Of course you can replace a battery pack(you mean cell) the black wrap around the cell is simple shrink wrap, you just cut it and put a new shrink wrap on the cell. If you somehow ever need to replace it.
I use either plastidip or the liquid electrical tape to insulate a few tools I use around batteries .Even electrical tape on handles layers is better than nothing but still treat like they are bare metal since parts of them are or might be.
I'm looking into building something similar. I have 2 questions. 1. You didn't need to balance your battery ? 2. I have a battery pack (Lithium Iron- purchased) that is connected to dash cam in car, so battery get charge at 14.6v at 9 amps when vehicle is on. The battery pack has XT60 port can I connect the above battery pack to my already installed pack to increase capacity?
How does the tape between the batteries impact the Need for them to be compressed? Seems it will create a gap where it will allow for them to expand? Thoughts.
These batteries don't need compression so long as you use them under a 1C rate. we specify in the batteries spec sheet that they cannot be used over a 1C rate other than a 30 second surge which in our testing we have found does not cause any issues.
Nice video. I had some random thoughts. If you dont have an insulated ratchet just wrap the handle in electrical tape. VHB tape is more expensive then basic 1 inch wide double side tape. Or just use shipping box cardboard for a separator if the cells are on the battery box.
the VHB has a bit more thickness to it, and really is awesome stuff for this case, that's the reason why we chose it. saving 10 bucks on tape seems penny smart but dollar foolish in my opinion
If I crete 2 simillar baterries 12v to this with its on BMS, Can I latter conect them in series to make a 24v sistem, does the BMSs work or I will need to chage the 2 BMS for a 8s string 24V BMS?
My bat. dealer tells me to compress cells for an extra 1000 cycles, I throw busbars out and make wire connections instead for flexibility,I never glue cells together if something should happen to a cell, and I never put bms inside together with batteries, the bms most likely will collapse before the batteries do, as it is an electronic device with a total different guaranteed lifespan, and I don t want it to heat my batteries, or itself for that matter in a beautibox, where I m not able to keep an eye with it, if you compress/fix the cells do it before you charge the cells, as cells will bulge a little when charged, if the cells were not allready charged by someone else, factory, dealer another customer?, thank you.
I built a similar sized pack. I used neoprene foam in between cells and then relied on the clamping force to hold them together. I also applied the clamping force before tightening down the bus bars. Looks like you didn't use any type of clamping force on the cells in this build.
I am trying to convert my mobility scooter, I am stuck at the final stage, the P from the BMS goes where? to main battery + and my original loom neg would go to the battery neg with the BMS blue ?? is this correct?
The P- From the BMS goes to your scooters negative wire connection. P stands for (power) so p always goes to the device you are trying to power. B stands for (battery) so it always does to the battery. You Connect the positive directly from the battery to the scooters positive wire.
Newbie question about the BMS. I am told never to have an individual cell charged above 3.65V, but Daly BMS is set to 3.75V. Why would they set it like that ? I have used a Lifepo4 Daly BMS and monitored individual cells voltage. I manually stopped charging when I saw voltage increasing above 3.65V. Their spec sheet says single overcharge protection voltage is set to 3.75V. Many thanks !
You should be able to change the cell cutoff voltage in the Bluetooth app. Also your charger should have a set voltage on it, what does your chargers voltage say?
You should be able to change the cell cutoff voltage in the Bluetooth app. Also your charger should have a set voltage on it, what does your chargers voltage say?
You get a a BMS that matches your cells max continuous discharge rate or less than. These cells have a 3c rating(300amp continous) so a 250amp BMS is fine. A 300amp would have worked too.
Nice video I like the video I found out what I wanted from the video I did not know how to wire up a BMS Now I know I can use their video as a referral to do in myself when I am trying to put the BMS on my 12-volt battery I will try and make one for myself soon
Wow, great video and I like what you are doing. That is a pretty good price for those batteries too. I did get some 200Ah cells a little cheaper from Aliexpress and am waiting for them to get delivered. But I had to order from some random company and who knows what I will get and I have to wait for months to get them. I love how yours fit in that box as well. I would have gone this route had I known.
I hope those cells from AliExpress turn out to be everything you hope for! We've been ripped off by China with grey market, B-Grade and used cells that are advertised as brand new "grade a" cells. Unfortunately there is ABSOLUTELY NO STANDARD on what "GRADE-A" actually is. Some say that "a grade" is the best, and other companies call what most of us here in the states assume grade a is actually grade A++. It's a nightmare and full of lies and deceit, hence why we are so focused on doing real and honest business.
Will you be doing capacity testing on this battery? Are these new cells new or used. I ask because that is a very good price. I am one of those guys still running with liquid lead acid batteries but the main reason is the up front cost of LiFePO4 batteries. I run 4- 225 ah liquid lead acid batteries but it gives me 450 usable ah. I would dearly love to go LiFePO4 with 640 ah of power. I simply need more info not only on the batteries used in this video but over all on LiFePo4 batteries. Thanks, new viewer
We just built an amazing battery testing rack just doing tests on batteries like these. We're making a video released sometime in the next week or so showing capacity testing on this configuration. The EnerAmp Cells are 100% brand new Grade A+, not some second hand gray market junk from China. It seems that everyone is getting ripped off with them, especially the 272ah cells that come in 10% under spec...totally unacceptable. We are stocking the batteries in our own warehouse, and will make some videos on Monday, as we have a massive order of cells arriving. I've been evaluating these batteries since October. I'm used to CALB batteries that are the best on the market, however, CALB has discontinued their CA180 batteries forcing us to find the next best thing. With these batteries, I think we found exactly what we are looking for and by ordering in massive quantities, we reach a price point that is unbeatable. Thanks for watching, and I am certain that there is plenty to learn on this channel. We are starting to ramp up our video production, this being one of the first few that have made the jump to the next generation of video production. We're super excited for a TON of awesome coming QUICK!
@@HighTechLab Excellent, thank you so much for the detailed response. It looks like I might very well be going LiFePo4. The cost for these batteries are only about 400.00 more than the lead acid I'm running. now.
The thing is, the cost difference isn't actually that much, when you consider that you will need to buy lead acid again in a few years, and these batteries are not only covered with an industry standard 10 year warranty, but reports are coming in from some of the original LFP users that they can last well beyond that 10yr mark if well taken care of.
4:22 right. i've seen a couple of DIY videos but I haven't seen anyone provide a warning except this. do bus bars like this melt whenever there is high current or short because this one looks beefy to me.
Yup. Have 100 Amp Hour battery running a 300 watt pure sine inverter. Its all in a plastic Minn Kota trolling motor plastic case. It runs a CPAP machine and a box fan, some LED lights and charges cell phones and USB stuff.
'If I were to place this busbar over here, it would create a dead-short' ... ehm, is it me, or is this hovering above those two connectors with a busbar something you just shouldn't try ;)
This is an excellent video even for a guy whose built a few LFP batteries. Hint to anyone building: the 100A and lower DALY BMS's cannot have the B- and P- leads reversed like in this video. I have a 100A unit sitting beside me, totally useless for a build as its so inflexible with mounting, but I know it works, and its my testing BMS. I have a 250A one coming, which I would have had to have done anyway, as I'm tossing an inverter into the mix.
I never thought of the NEGATIVE shell of my cells and I don't think A lot of people have when putting these together. At the very least, use the separating Styrofoam packing the batteries came with when shipped.
Im watching the video while assembling a 105AH 12V battery. My configuration is absolutely like yours but my BMS cable is adding the voltages. Like when I put the voltmeter negative lead on the black port and the positive on the first red slot, it shows 3.2V. When I move the positive lead to the second red slot it shows 6.4V and 9.6V and finally 12.8V on the last red slot. It doesn't show 3.2V in every slot like in your case. Any idea of why?
Because he is moving both of the multimeter points. So you are keeping your black lead on the negative while he's moving it to the next cells positive everytime. So if it's -1, +1,+2,+3,+4 to test cell 4 you put your meter on +3,+4 instead of - 1,+4
I would never try and get that much heat in between those tightly packed cells here. You're almost guaranteed to weaken or even melt through the plastic wrap on the cells. As others mentioned, fishing line to but them apart. Keep heat away from PLASTIC
@@brianmi40 you just cut the shrink wrap of the cell and just add new shrink wrap if you need to separate them. Obviously cut the shrink wrap of only 1 cell at a time.
Are you referring to balance leads or the heavy gauge current carrying wires? I made a video on using a hydraulic crimper...and talked about the cold welding. I think these wires are so small, that amount of force might just shear through them.
This battery would struggle. It only has a 3c discharge (300amps) you can buy "headway" cylindrical Lifepo4 cells that have a much higher C rating and can start a car for alot less $
Very nice. If I want to have let's say four times the capacity. But I don't need more than 200 amps. Would you the build four equal packs with four BMS, or just make a 4P-4S pack out of all 16 cells?
You can do it either way electrically. Using 4 BMS's is more expensive but you can monitor each cell. If you parallel cells first you cannot monitor them individually, but it does eliminate the cost of the extra 3 BMS's.
We will be very soon, right now the kit is the batteries, buss bars, and screws. I've been negotiating BMS units already and the rest is just VHB tape.
Great video, but your website REFUSES TO LOAD AT ALL if there are ANY ad blockers. Which means you're never getting ANY of my business, nor anyone else that likes a MALWARE FREE computer.
That's really strange, we do not have any ads on our site and I run an ad blockeron my computer that developed the site. Can you help us understand better by letting us know which ad blocker and which web browser you are using?
I am trying to re-create your results - Now I have AdBlock Plus, uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger running on Chrome and both the main site and webstore load just fine. I want to verify that you are running them on Chrome, is that accurate? Do you have any settings in these plugins changed that may be different than the defaults that would currently be active with the plugins I just installed?
Can you cover charging with this battery and BMS? Could a boat/car alternator charge the pack or does it need a dedicated setup? Showing mixed charging setups and examples could be useful. Like alternator and solar combined.
There are issues with potential damage to the alternators except some in newer vehicles but there are ways to deal with it . Would NOT do this until you research the topic or wait for his videos. Basically with lead acid there can always be some charging load when the LiFePo BMS cuts the charge off there is no load on alternator at all and will cause alternator failure
You'd want a product like this for DC to DC charging from your vehicle alternator / battery... www.renogy.com/12v-dc-to-dc-on-board-battery-charger/?gclid=CjwKCAjwtJ2FBhAuEiwAIKu19rXBhbnb0MgNU_hfQB9tbYBr3XIa4bHfRtFHpFw_hVbC9vggjgV1XRoCgGgQAvD_BwE They can be run in parallel to charge along with a Solar array.
Couple things I'd suggest, place fiberglass board between the bms and battery cell. It gets very hot especially in a confined space like that. Also use some type of tape on the outside to bind then together, double tape will let loose when the cells warm up.
Literally neither of the objects that you suggest get hot actually do get hot. These cells are only rated for a 1C rate for continuous discharge which means that BMS will only ever see 170 amps. Total overkill for this setup
@@HighTechLab how long have you ran that bms continuous at 1c in that enclosed box and what was the temp? If I pull 85 amps from my 120a rated bms it gets to up 80c and not in an enclosed environment.