Stephen A. & JJ Redick GO AT IT debating whether the NBA has turned soft 🗣 | First Take 

Agree...they need to make him a permanent voice on ESPN.

No he hasn't 😂😂🤣🤣🤣

He’s a solid contributor

Agree 1 trillion percent :D Love JJ

Exactly 💯

Bill Lambeer could not play at the speed the game is played at now. The idea that the players aren’t as good is absolutely ridiculous.

@@Vaughndaleoulaw bro the pace is not that much faster then back then. These players are actually weaker in this era. Considering the heavy emphasis on offense (crippling defense) pretty much eliminating physical play for the most part. Most these athletes can’t even stay healthy in this weak era of basketball lol

@@endangeredspecies8441 “These players are actually weaker in this era.” Lol!! On what do you base this ridiculous conclusion. These players have better weight training regimes and are physically just as big (if not bigger). That is a fact. For example, Reggie Miller played in that “physical” era and was all of 185 lbs. That is Curry’s weight and he is on the smallish size in this era. KG was an all-star in 97 at 6-11 220 lb. To put that in perspective, that is 25 lbs lighter than KD who is extremely skinny in the modern era. Regarding health, on what are you basing that these players don’t stay healthy? Again, they have all the medical and scientific advances. What evidence do you that they aren’t staying as healthy (or even healthier) as the average player from yesteryear?

@@Vaughndaleoulaw well let’s start with the players themselves who are constantly complaining about the schedule themselves Jasper. They already play in a weak era and as you so brilliantly pointed out they have better equipment, trainers, and nutrition then players of the past and can barely stay on court. So your “better,faster,stronger” player is constantly whining about the schedule/back to backs and is getting hurt more frequently? Yeah somethings not adding up here.

@@endangeredspecies8441 That doesn’t support a single one of your arguments. They are complaining because they know is taxing schedule increases injury risk (& shortens careers). But, that was true in the 80s & 90s as well. There is no evidence that they are staying less healthy than the players in yesteryear. And no evidence that they are physically weaker than players in the past. Players complain about it because they know the effects of the schedule, unlike dudes in the past. Teams are also complaining about it for the same reason, which is why they voluntarily rest guys. Are teams weaker than they were in the 80s and 90s? No, they are smarter. These players have 8 & 9-figure contracts. Why play dude in a back-to-back in December when you need him to be healthy in May and June.

Unfortunately you wouldn't've had a choice

@@TheMissiIe unfortunately, you failed to find the joke

that's just me

I bet if it was in regards to quidditch she would’ve gotten it Justin

I can answer this. What changed is the internet and Esports. Nobody wants to play football and basketball like they used to, everyone is playing video games. Every one. Around the world. These old playground sports are not what they used to be and they never will be again. Today, the real competition is in Esports, because that's what everyone is playing. And I was playing high school sports 15 years ago, you could see the interest dying and everyone was on video games.

Blame ESPN for making his head that big

@@BigA678 at the same time he’s very dedicated and good at what he does , we can’t ignore that

@@hakukabani3788 true

I think the credibility of the athletes in the room are doing a good job developing Stephen A. as an analyst ✌️

Dude, JJ literally spoke for 7 minutes straight right before this vid. Not the biggest fan of Stephen a but u got it twisted.

Facts. Like I don’t blame players for flopping yeah it’s annoying but as a competitor they’re just doing what it takes to win in their eyes. It’s the refs who control the game really. If players didn’t benefit off flops I bet it wouldn’t be so common but since players get away with it so much they’re just gonna keep doing it

@@MajorFactor i am backing this because i agree. yes the game has gotten soft, not the players. the officiating is to blame, these f*ck a** refs who drive me crazy every time i watch the game. and it seems to be getting worse. players taking advantage of the rules is fine by me, it's done in all sports, you play to win.

This is basketball it’s a finesse sport. It’s not meant to be aggressive

Kinda is

yeah the rule changes have made it softer

I know right...SAS is the star of the show and he's like "excuse me"...he just cracks up watching us white guys go at it. I don't blame him. JJ and Mad Dog just don't like each other, and it's funny to watch.

The Malice in the Palace was not "physical basketball" Artest committed a normal routine shooting foul on a player driving to the basket. Ben Wallace then attacked Artest like a wild lunatic. What the league eliminated (for the better) is the goon tactics that have no place in sports in the 1st place.

I think the reality is the league believes offense sells and wants to promote higher scoring games. TV ratings, generating more revenue is all they truly care about.

@@DarrellC. That's a great point as well.

@@cmack17 What I meant by that is the bad look it gave to the NBA since it got out of hand. Not necessarily that game because it was basically over but his it escalated out of control.

@@DarrellC. being less physical also helps players, and more specifically stars, play longer, which helps generate fans and money.

they did not just want to "tarnish" the game...they are employees. I believe the corporate kingpin called the NBA has enforced that on them

How refs have to judge the game these days is ridiculous. The pace of the game and how soft they judge the game is terrible

Blame David Stern he made it this way.

You can get a foul just for breathing nowadays. They're the real reason why the NBA is considered soft now.

society in general in softer now than it was back in the days. so logic would tell you that nba players are also softer. add to that the fact that the game has become softer BECAUSE of the officiating you definitely have a softer game. Softer guys are allowed to exist in this era of basketball that would be weeded out in the 80's and 90's. Draymond is wrong. on average, nba players are softer now. Having said that, if you ever get a chance to watch these men play with court side seats you will see just how aggressive professional basketball players are. there are so many fouls and hits and bumps that aren't called. the tv does not do it justice. these are large, powerful men and basketball is a still a very physical game.

@@Kevinschart you do realize these guys now are stronger and faster though? Some dudes in the 80s and 90s had no business, I repeat no business being pro athletes. If these soft, stronger dudes hit them…they ain’t getting up.

@@alexk4220 bro did you even read what i wrote?.. i spoke specifically about how large and powerful basketball players are. i agree, there are far more freak athletes in the league now. but you still have guys like steph that, at 6'2, can barely dunk. there are plenty of nba players today that couldn't hack it in other sports from a pure "athlete" stand point. toughness is not just a physical thing, it's a mental thing.

@@Kevinschart except you said softer guys today couldn’t hack it. There were guys in the 80s who weren’t even athletes. Mental toughness is important, but if todays stronger “softer” players hit those, they aren’t getting up. Not with the drinking and coke habits rampant in the league too, let’s not forget that now either. Could you imagine what social media would do to those dudes now?

@@alexk4220 lol the coke habits...that's an important variable. from a physical capability standpoint, the modern nba player wins hands down. better training, better sports science, better nutrition that's not debatable. you have to make a relative argument though. don't place shaq in 1940's basketball. Consider shaq against his contemporaries. if 50% of the league was mentally "tough guys" in the 80s, the modern nba is something like 40% or less. this is the point i'm trying to make

a lot of people back then weren't as good so they would beat you up to win. nowadays everyone relies on skill and it makes the old players insecure because they couldn't rely purely on skill for the most part. the guys they are talking about in the 80s wouldn't even it to the NBA nowadays because of social media. We got people made at will smith for slapping chris rock but then we want to pretend we want to go back to 80s basketball where they would just clothesline people.

@@jourdansarpy4935 whats so skillful about making more 3s and receiving more calls in your favor because of how much less contact is permitted?

@@GreaterThanSolomon what’s skillful about making less threes and getting away with bumping people around? Dude play basketball before you talk to me from now on.

It’s just ego. The older players are stuck with their hubris of “back in my day” attitude.

There has been a major shift in officiating, I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it's a fact. Guards used to have to fight off much more aggressive hand-checking, grabbing and bumping. It meant that perimeter players had to bulk up. Jordan had to do it to get past the Pistons. So yes, modern players can play faster, move more freely, and shoot more open shots. That's neither good nor bad, but is simply true.

Exactly!

Basketball is a finesse sport it’s supposed to be “soft.”

@@pandabear1576 no hand checking ruined it

@@pandabear1576 no

Lol

That’s not the argument. The argument is that you can’t play defense today because you can’t even look like you’re about to touch the ball handler without a foul being called. That’s where the “soft” comes from. It’s become a free throw competition.

@@DarrellC. From 1980-2000, NBA games saw an average of 27.86 free throws attempted per game. That number shrinks even more to 20.26 over the past 10 years with nine of the least-penalized seasons in NBA history coming during that span.

If that’s true, it is a good point against free throw shooting competition. Follow up point though, Free throws per game doesn’t represent the way the officiating has changed the game. I do think the nba has been making good rule changes to keep the offense from taking advantage though ✌️

@@waywu2001 Because the fouls counted in that era were actual fouls, not the BS they call today. Also, the game used to be played much more inside the paint. Fouls are much more likely to happen close to the rim, as opposed to nowadays where all 10 players are spread across the perimeter aiming for a 3 point shot.

Nailed it

That's not what they're talking about

Max actually brought the numbers consistently to back up his claims with his nonchalant delivery and chill attitude. So it was somewhat impossible to take him on

Max was a little to "smug" for me. He should have stuck with boxing, which he was / is really good at. And...the whole cliff thing with Tom Brady made him look stupid...just plain dumb. He lost a lot a cred there. Tom was like FU.

Max graduated from an Ivy League college and was way too much for Stephen A to handle

You gotta give the older generations technology and medicine we have today. They weren’t flying on planes, they didn’t have nutritionists, trainers lol they rode the bus for crying out loud.

You give those old players access to today's sports science and medicine they can beat today's players. Humans dont magically evolved and became faster, stronger, more athletic etc. We are a product of our environment.

In your dreams kid

@@aris_mendez and yet they didnt miss games or suffer serious injuries unlike today

@@peterstark4562 yeah give Karl Malone whatever Anthony Davis takes and he'll be injury prone like a mf

Shooting more 3s makes you better? In his guts like joe ingles would kill everyone back then

@@GreaterThanSolomon On almost every team 1-4 at minimum can run an offensive set in the half court or in transition. There are more players that can effectively guard multiple positions. There are far more players that can consistently pull off triple doubles. Those are a few things I would point to.

@@Vaughndaleoulaw 1. Because unlike previous standards, it’s difficult to slow that play down without easily getting in foul trouble. 2. They can guard multiple positions because of how much weaker the big mens are, in this era they need bigs like Gobert and kd to be able to keep up with the pace specially since like what 45% of 3s are made But the league takes more so obviously more rebounds. 3. Which is how more players can get rebounds and since it’s much easier to score for the assist and unlike in the past players that can stat pad will get away with it. in the past every so often a player would get a trip dub naturally through the flow of the game. The league is doing this in order to try to preserve players from injury since they’re getting paid millions unlike in the past, it’s a smart move. Plus constantly scoring and both teams scoring over 100+ a game is more appealing than limited scoring due to defense

@@GreaterThanSolomon #1-#2 - The modern players are bigger, faster, stronger. Even the old heads concede that. The advances in our knowledge of proper condition and weight training from the mid-90s to now is exponential. The bigs aren’t weaker. Gobert is Olajuwon’s size. KD would have been a big in the past given his size, but he is a forward. #3 - outside of Westbrook post-KD in OKC and Harden, this notion that all these dudes stat pad to get triple doubles is absurd. How exactly is Jokic stat padding? Which one of Sabonis’ teammates is allowing him to stuff his stats? Who is doing it for Batum?

@@Vaughndaleoulaw 1. Gobert is nowhere near Hakeem’s size only in stature. Olajuwon would Mop the floor with Gobert especially in the post, draymond couldn’t even slow down lebron in 2015 and needed an older player in iggy to slow him down, Barkley would have a field day with draymond. 2. KD wouldn’t even last as a back in the past because of how slim he is, no muscle at all center would push him around, only advantage KD has is skill in shooting, who patterned his game from players of the past who supposedly have no skill. The only big that would last in the league is joking because of how big he is, he’s not as athletic as Gobert, and Gianni’s. 3. Again because of how easy it is to score it’s easier now to get assists

I disagree....I think JJ and Stephen A. agree on most points. It is a debate show after all...If they didn't mix it up every once in a while people would get bored. Even JJ himself admitted, on his own podcast, that he enjoyed First Take a lot more than he thought he would.

@@dons106 that can still agree, they can still like working together, doesn't mean he don't get annoyed at Stephen A everytime JJ or anyone else tries to make any point whatsoever, u start hearing this dude making random noises getting louder n louder trying to interrupt u and not let u finish ur point, EVEN If he agrees wit it...lol that would get infuriating for anyone. It's a tactic he uses on everyone in order to win the debate

No, the players are soft. It's all part of the feminization of the American male. Skinny women jeans, man bags, dudes wearing dresses, etc... dudes in general are softer nowadays.

Saying some BS equals real one. Ha

but many who lived and watched basketball back in the 80s and 90's had become accustomed to seeing the game be much more physical meaning the refs allowed a lot more contact than today. A lot of that stuff shouldn't have been allowed even back then but today the league is cutting much of that out and it seems like the players are "softer". I say no, the players in todays game aren't allowing themselves to be beat up on the court and would rather the game be determined by skill more so that brute strength. Players are getting paid a ton more and want to protect that and want to retire healthy. The same thing has happened in the NFL to an extent. More focus is being put on protecting the players and that's how it should be. Back in the day we thought defense meant knocking someone to the ground (Even out of the air). You take skill out of the game when you allow people to beat someone else up during a game.

@@lorenzopearson110 "he players in todays game aren't allowing themselves to be beat up on the court and would rather the game be determined by skill more so that brute strength." it's almost like being strong is also part of the game right? it's almost like basketball is a contact sport.

They actually allow for better and more complex defensive schemes now than they did back then. Back then it was easier to score 1 on 1 because of the illegal defense rules. Imagine if the nfl only allowed man to man defense and no zone coverages. No one would say it’s easier to score against.

@@2robjenkins You forgot about the defensive 3 second in 2001-02…. Nice try though lol. Only in college basketball Or FIBa is there unrestricted zone defenses without a defensive 3.

Sensitive sally

He kind of does really. He's gone on several rants about modern players being "disrespected" but threw a whole generation of old school players under the bus with his Bob Cousy comments. Nothing comes off more pampered and self-centered as "good for me but not for thee".

@@KClouisville And, he's about to turn 38 which makes it even more laughable.

@@brandtmaxwell8972 he just have brain. he is way better analyst than oldies analysts. Old analysts are fanboys of their era, most of their takes are influenced by nostalgia. This also applies to old fans of nba, so just watch sports now, your era was over and face the future cowards.

You comedy talking bout basketball ain't never been tough The Bill Laimbeer of Bad Boys Pistons in the 80's and Charles Oakley of The Knicks .. Gary Payton of the Sonics in the 90s would Destroy JJ Reddick and you in this debate I know Shaq Charles Barkely Kevin Garnett Ron Artest all done said the This Current NBA is Soft and been like that for the last 10yrs 12yrs I'll value somebody like Kevin Garnett who played in 90s 2000's 2010's era over JJ Reddick who Didn't play in the 90s or the early 2000's era before the League got rid of Hand Checking

It was hard and tough until Malice at the Palace you buffoon

Snap. You just described Reddick's punk as* TO A TEE. Especially that last line.

he's also saying, why can't the players today be better than the players of the past? why is that argument never entertained by the old heads?

Facts!! Especially in the finals.. Like it’s the finals let them boys play and if you’re gonna call soft plays at least call it both ways then

@@MajorFactor thank you brother just make calls on both ends want to see a good game not fixed by the refs

@@MajorFactor that’s just dumb. Basketball is basketball in the finals just like it is in the first game of the season. You don’t allow anything differently that’s not how you make a game as fair as possible. No point of even having rules at that point

Lots of flopping going on

Nope

Less skills and the future is not bright. M/oron

I/diot

Yeah, that's the whole reason Reddick and them were hired; to tell you young pus*y generations what you want to hear, unlike the oldhead announcers that are speaking ACTUAL TRUTH.

NBA is way to soft. MJ made 35 Points in a Night. But paid the price going inside. Now no hand check, no hard inside play and non stop 3 Point BS. The NBA is boring and stinks. Love to see JJ Redicks Numbers if he played in 80's and 90's what a Know it all. They had defense in those days. Heck even the All Star Games back then were intense.

It is true princess

Reggie Miller averaging 25 on 65% TS lol

I don’t get it, why couldn’t they? It’s essentially easier to play in today’s game with a more restricted defense.

​@@DarrellC. I think many of the centres and big men from the 80s would struggle guarding elite pg's in space. I don't think its easier or harder, I think different rulesets favor different skillsets. Current rules favor switch-ability, shooting, and guarding in space. I think a guy like Larry Bird would be fine just as i think that Steph would be fine in the 80s ( that is if a coach would let the man shoot). I also think that traditional 80s and 90s bigmen struggle more in today's league as the pace and space of the modern game would run many centres and big men from the 80s off the floor. I agree that it's easier to score in today's game, but is it therefore easier to play? Defence has also significantly changed. The more rules you put on a defender the more difficult it is to actually guard an opposing team or player. Being allowed to handcheck gives an advantage to the defensive player, not being able to do that anymore means that you have to be better at screen navigation etc. You can therefore make the argument that defenders nowadays actually need more skills and that it's more difficult to play quality defence. In all the point is that comparing teams and players across era's is a futile effort due to different rules resulting in disrespect both ways.

@@DoubleU_Nld way to write all that and be dead wrong. Moron

@@DoubleU_Nld Curry aint shooting those shots in the 80s you bonehead and those bigs aint struggling with these PGs who wouldnt dare challenge them in the paint

@@DoubleU_Nld modern game is trash and you're an idiot

They want they title they were tougher so bad lol cause they are less skilled and make less money.

There is a debate. You really can’t say there’s more skill when rules allow for COMPLETE freedom of movement, that’s a contradiction.

@@kobe2curry4rose1 I can argue the same for how they were allowed to defend. Clotheslining people when they drive and slapping peoples hands when they’re dribbling shouldn’t count as defense. However, the older players take pride in having done that as if they were amazing defenders…I’d rather have Jrue Holiday 🤷🏾‍♂️

@@kobe2curry4rose1 bruh it’s not just a complete movement it’s their handles, ability, shooting, game speed/pace. U can’t deny evolution. These nba players played hundreds of aau games and organizationed basketball. They are better athletically too 🤝 quit hating there’s no debate

@@kobe2curry4rose1 u wouldn’t say a basketball player in the 1950s in better than a player in the 1980s….so look how u sound saying players in 2022 is not better than players in 1980s like evolution isn’t a real thing? Look how fast the internet changed the world look how many world changes since then 😂 u lost Brodie I’m glad I opened up ur airhead to reality

Exactly it is what it is, the rules should be catered to the offensive players it makes for a much more sellable product. Nobody wants to watch a 75-83 basketball game. Let’s stop blaming the players as if they were writing letters to David Stern at 5 years old so that the rules were changed by the time they made it to the league. It’s not their fault.

Yall seem to forget ratings weren't high when the NBA was tough and defensive. Yall wax poetic like the NBA isn't a business first they need ratings.

Sensitive cindy

@@paulmccarthy4277 who?

@@andria234 The ratings are at an all-time low. The highest rated Finals series happened in the 90's. The lowest rated happened in the 2020's.

Draymond has never averaged 25-12-5 or anywhere close to those stats, and I don’t think he would in the 90s.

@@nickkolitz3136 I am not saying that Draymond is as good or that he is not as good. Although if you place Draymond now in the 90s he could probably average that. What I am saying is that, they made mention of Draymond’s height, like he was too short to play with the big boys. I am saying if Barkley could do it, and do it well, then Draymond, with his height, should be able to hang being taller than Barkley.

@@AnthonyTaylorJr210 also major L for thinking Green can be like Barkley on offense

Aint more talented

Nope and Anthony Davis is better conditioned than Karl Malone? Ha what a joke

You must be joking

So basically MJ would average 35 on 55% FG against JJ reddick? Lol

What? The talent pool to get into the league is bigger that means you must be even better to make it. More teams makes it even harder to get in as the sport goes even more international and international teams don’t restrict player movement to the NBA anymore.

the players are better my problem is the old heads can't accept that because they feel like it renders their era irrelevant which isn't the case. it's classic "get off my lawn"

@@pandabear1576 False, pal. The percentage of the people capable of playing the game stayed exactly the same. In a way, they lower the standard by changing the game. It's not the same game, pal. It got easier. Select more people means you get less selective. Go learn some math, pal. And again, they lower the standard to get more people involved.

@@TheKondinho And you take that nonsensical conclusion of players are better based on what? Because they travel more now as well as palming the ball more? Rules got easier, pal. By default that makes the game easier. Go learn some math. Players nowadays play less minutes, less games, less possessions, better equipment, better health care, less physicality, easier rules. Go learn some math. This is a classic case of delusional.

@@pandabear1576 nope

They cant play. Cry about it kid