I watched this video with headphones and when the Ernie Ball Stingray was played, man, it sounded excellent. I don't think the Sterling by Music Man was bad by any means, but the Ernie Ball sounded fantastic. Looking forward to the next videos! Definitely makes me miss by Ernie Ball Sterling back home 😭
I have the same bass for 3 years now! i use it both live and recordings from our band. all stock, no mods, it's a beginner bass and i looooove it so much!
Have you experienced the low E string to be louder than the others? I got the stock version as well and have this issue, even after tilting the pickup height.
That is encouraging to hear. I have been eyeing one for a while now and have been thinking about getting it for myself, but was wondering how it holds up as an entry-level bass. Good to know that it stands up to regular use.
Thank you so much for trying all the preamps and pickups on the SUB bass. I'm thinking about modding my SUB bass and I appriciate your effort a lot. Cheers!
I have a left-handed sub ray 4, the same model but with the old logo. The bass sounded distorted and it was practically impossible to get a decent EQ. I installed a Seymour Duncan SMB4DS combination, which is practically the same but with the ceramic pickup. The improvement is amazing, it sounds like another instrument. Greetings from Chile.
It’s amazing what can be achieved these days with aftermarket electronic upgrades. The USA Ray still shaded things. Personally, I loved the slap setting.
I preferred the sound of that bass with the "Slap Mode" off but the difference was very subtle... On my cheap speaker anyway! Thanks for another good demo LowEndLobster!!!
Sounds great and a lot more StingRay-like with more bite and punch than the original SUB electronics. I actually like the sound of the moded SUB more than the USA StingRay!!!
Indeed! I've heard folks say that the pickups alone in the GB-4 are weak (someone mentioned they popped them in some other bass), but the preamp and pickup combo definitely makes em shine.
I own a Ray24 and I gotta say the preamp Is pretty good. I spoke with somebody who swapped out the preamp for an Ernie Ball replacement and a Mojotone MusicMan Clone, and he swears the difference is barely noticeable. I do wish that the Ray24 came with alnico humbuckers though! I fancy that more.
I tried the STC preamp in my ‘94 3-band Stingray sometime around ‘08 or so. It definitely smoothened out the tone and took away the harsh nasal midrange of the EB preamp (which it sounds like the Special still has). When I spoke with SD tech support about the preamp (I had a noise issue because I used the stock pickup which does not have the pole pieces shielded like the SD pickup), they told me that the design of the STC-MM-3 takes what made the original 2-band and brings it into 3-band flexibility. So perhaps comparing its tone to your Classic Stingray would be a better idea.... Just a thought... The Slap Contour mini pots on the PCB control the amount of desired Bass Boost and Mid Cut when you engage the circuit. If you don’t want to lose the signature Stingray Zing, I’d suggest just boosting the Bass and minimize the Mid-cut. I plan on building an SR5-style bass in the future and will be using the STC-MM3 preamp with their SMB-5D ceramic pickup (SMB-5S set)
Thank you Dwarde! I'm going to be messing with the trim pots on the preamp some more. I think I've decided to keep this SUB, and will be doing more content with it compared some of my other rays including the SR classic that I recently got :)
Cool. I had also forgot to mention that the SD SMB-4A AlNiCo pickup is also designed around a 70’s Stingray pickup as well, while the Ceramic magnet version is designed to have the more aggressive 90’s tone. It’s all in their product descriptions. All the more reason to compare this SUB with the Classic SR. Not that I’m trying to tell you how to run your show...I’m just trying to be somewhat relevant in this world and perhaps contribute some knowledge gained from experience...or you can just tell me to STFU and crawl back under my rock from which I occasionally emerge... Hey, none of those jerks on TalkBass ever listen to me, so why should The Lobster? [I miss that New England Lobster and some Chowdah...right now all I can get are Chesapeake Blue Crabs...]
@@dupajas4671 Indeed! No worries my friend, I genuinely appreciate the suggestions! I'm honestly super stoked on my 'Ray collection right now. There will be a LOT of comparison videos headed your way in the future, my friend! Don't you worry :).
Excelente trabalho Lobster ! Você faz os melhores reviews de Music Man/Sterling da web. Continue assim ! Translation: "Great job Lobster! You make the best Music Man / Sterling reviews on the web. Keep it up !"
Wow, I had high expectations, but it sounds even better than expected. I remember telling you about Duncan's MM line in the Ray34 video, this one kinda scratches my itch. Might swap my Ray 34 electronics someday :)
Thanks Thiago! That's a great idea, but you may need to swap the pickguard too as the Ray34 pickup doesn't have the "nubs" at the top of the pickup and instead has them combined into a thumb rest.
Great video again. Question: what u mean by “bass on two hundred” after testing the bass o. 50%. Sounded as a frequency change to me. And about the noise while boosting the treble do you believe that was the cav shielding?
I've owned an ORIGINAL MMSR made by Leo Fender..it was a 1978 model..I bought it in NYC on 48th street back in the mid 90s..so when I hear someone audition these Ernie and Sterling models, I'm comparing their sound to the original tonal versatility..alas they sound ok...this last Sterling SUB that you modified with the Seymour Duncan Alnico P/U and preamp..in my opinion..having owned and gigged for over a decade with an original Leo Fender model (which was stolen from me😭💔)...came the closest to the authentic tonal quality and versatility I so loved from the 1978 Leo Fender model(s)...what you neglected to observe and mention is that the ORIGINAL MMSR basses also had a different bridge...the classic bridge had black foam rubber dial-in spring mutes in front of the saddles and most importantly, they were ALL STB...This STB feature, in particular, had a marked and distinct effect in boosting not only SUSTAIN but also tonal WARMTH and RICHNESS..that the current Ernie and Sterling Ball models lack all the way around. I have never understood how much more expensive it would have been for them to add this original design feature to the basses overall...one of their "techs" even tried to argue with me that it didn't make a difference!! I, politely as I could informed him that he didn't know what he was talking about if he had never owned and played and gigged with an original model for years at a time. Facts: this bass was designed especially for Louis Johnson of "The Brothers Johnson" who had adopted the "Thumping and Plucking" style of playing pioneered by Larry Graham. There's even a caricature of The Brothers Johnson engraved as an emblem on the headstock..not only on the Leo Fender models but on the earlier Ernie Ball's as well where the capitol M makes the legs of the the guitar playing "Brothers Johnson"..( fyi..the image was taken from their 1st ablum entitled "Look Out for #1)..Louis's knickname was "Thunder Thumbs"...so Leo design the bass to get the pick up configuration out of the way of the vigorous righthand activity intrinsic to the technique. So the original pick ups were designed to be VERY HOT🔥🔥...Because the positioning of the pick up negates the warmth of having a pick up in the neck position..if you haven't seen before or as yet, LJ made an instructional "Star Licks" video that's now on RU-vid, where he talks in some detail about what he and Leo did together when this bass was in the design phase..he also plays the bass...and when here the original tone you'll understand EXACTLY what it has taken me this long to describe...take a listen...and THEN make your overall comparison...I ANXIOUSLY await YOURtake on this after you seen and heard LJ's video..😎👍 P.S. sorry this was so lengthy..😳😌 I do however enjoy your videos...I'm making plans now to buy the Kingston Super 5 and possibly a Sterling SUB to modify as a result...Thank You for your labors in this..😊❤
If it matters, I installed this pickup with the stock preamp in minty sub ray, which is about the only combo not tried by Mr. Lobster. It is a very nice upgrade in case that's what your budget or expertise allows.
I have the 5 string version of this. You made me buy it with your 5 string video. It’s a nice bass for cheap! What setup would you go with for metal? Minto?
Thanks Wes! Nailed it, Minto. You will be happy with the Darkglass preamp in your use case. Very clear and crisp highs while still maintaining a lot of the signature stingray tone.
Sounds very, very good! The main thing stopping me from getting an SUB is the Jazz style thinner neck : ( too bad you dont get that with the Ray 24 upgrade as well....
Thanks for this video. I have a Ray4 SUB in mint green. I’m looking to upgrade pups/electronics. The Yellow EBMM sounded richer and more sophisticated....but the SUB held its ground well for the price. I’ve been playing for this stock as main player while my Modulus enjoys semi-retirement. It kills through my Zoom B3 with compression/limiting. Great video.
Thanks Rick! I'm curious to see how the Aguilar and Nordstrand setups will stack up, but those will take a bit longer to get here. Hopefully these vids help narrow down your choices!
Thanks man! Yep, not sure if a ground got loose or if it needs some shielding. She's gonna go under the knife again to play with those trim pots, will figure it out!
@@LowEndLobster im having the same problem with this exact mods seymour pick and sub, to much noise. Exactly like you but in my ray34ca. How can i fix it?
Both basses sounded pretty much the same other than the EBMM sounding slightly ‘deeper’ and less trebly. Would put that down to better quality body woods used in its construction. My SUB finally arrived here in NZ and managed to grab the SD pickup+preamp combo of Amazon. Is getting installed this week. Complete bass at around the $NZD 1100 vs $3500 NZD for a EBMM. Or $1999 for the Ray 34. Thanks 😊
Sheeeeit listen to the low end on that EBMM.... 😲 The sterling sounds good, just not the same although the money saved could definitely persuade me. Great platform to build from
Thanks John! I'm going to be messing with the trim pots on the PCB to see if we can get a bigger scoop going in slap mode. I had a hard time hearing the difference as well, though in my audio recording application the difference between the two was visible. I think some tweaking should result in a more drastic difference. I'm going to have that done before the next video that this is featured in.
The sub actually sound better to me the highs are super crisp with deep hollow bass my kind of sound style, what's the name of the preamp in the sub, looking to mod my cort gd75 I think the pre in it is trash and maybe check out the Seymour pickups too, question do you no if they sell 1 jazz 1 humbuck as a set or I have to get both separate, thanks for any suggestions or info Mr Rock Lobster
Thanks Jonathan! The Preamp is the STC3M3, but they also make one with the blend knob for basses with more than one pickup. I'm not sure if they sell individual jazz pickups, though reaching out to SD themselves or Best Bass Gear may be your best bet to find out! That would be a great upgrade. I have a Cort GB64JJ coming in later this week :)
I hear you Rich just something to do and the bass is super nice like it alot just trying to get the sound I'm hearing for out of it, the jazz pickup is so much lower than the humbuker, don't get me wrong it sound cool but I've heard and seen mods that changed the game for some basses and wanted to be one of those, get the best out of this thing, thanks for the input though
After watching quite a few of your comparisons the part where you demonstrated the slap knob was the best (in my opinion). I dig you playing but the shorter intervals of playing seem to work better for comparing the different tones. Just a constructive comment. 🦞
The SUB sounds fantastic. I recently got one as well (this is my first bass). I do notice in mine there’s fret buzzing, and I also noticed this in your demos, which was more noticeable when compared with the more expensive one. Is there a way to fix the buzzing from the frets?
I love any SD product and i've already put on my jazz a couple of SJB-3 pickups with the STC blackout preamp. Killer sound. But... On my custom made bass i mounted a SMB.4D with the OBP-3 from Aguilar. No words, just orgasms.
I have found that EMG Hz's cure most ailments. I don't like the EMG 40's they are only good for Motown so if you want Motown buy an EMG 40 and throw the domino's out.
@@rmccain99 i tried the 40's sound when i got a spector euro5 lx. Funky sounding pickups, also good for metal, motown, rock and jazz! Really crazy, but Seymour duncan jb pickups and mm pickups make it way better. Active pickups are too impersonal and modern-sounding and it makes me prefer standard passives in quite any situation.
Thank you for your videos they are great! Were you able to hear the Seymour Duncan with the stock preamp? I’m going to get the Aguliar or the Seymour Duncan for my sterling sub and keep the stock preamp. I saw your video with the Aguliar using the stock preamp just wondering if the Seymour Duncan would be compatible and sound good with the stock preamp. Thank you.
Thanks Tim! Great question. Yes, the SD with the stock pre will sound similar to the Aggie (if wired parallel). Stock pre is definitely serviceable, and I'd definitely recommend pickup first.
@@LowEndLobster were you ever able to get an output level on the stock pickups? My sterling sub is a few months old and doesn’t seem that hot to me, the pickup measures 6.6 k ohm which seems more like a lower output pickup.
yeah, i feel too many people use aguilar, it is good gear, but it is a little overpriced for me, and here in Argentina if something is overpriced goes even higher with taxes
@@juliangramajo7010 We'll be doing a Tone Monster SUB in my upcoming Ultimate SUB Mod Guide. $110 USD for both pickup and preamp! We'll see how those stack up to the competition. Stay tuned my friends :)
You can never go wrong with stingray or sterling being a stingray player, for years I can’t ever say anything bad but spending $2 grand for any bass should require drug testing. The sub with most modifications offer a better value pickups/preamps and way more sonic coloring no matter, what your style is Lobster it’s guy’s like you who convinced me to go sub 4 sterling body style with rear cavity oppose to plate/stingray WHAT MODELS OFFER THE REAR CAVITY AND SIDE 1/2 input? Last I have an Ernie ball sterling / with lakland pickups/ LAKLAND L3H preamp Sterling sub/bartolini pickups/ 4.6 bartolini preamp sub 4/ Seymour Duncan smb4-A Delano mc4/AL /Mark bass m.b.preamp sub 4/norstrand 2 big man pickups/ nordstrand preamp THANK YOU FOR DEDICATION I have learned a lot from your, channel thanks peace and love lobster
I just have to say this, I brought the Seymour Duncan SMB-4A 4string bass Alnico pick-up and the STC-3M4 pre-amp. This had to most time-consuming pre-amp I have ever put together. Not a lot of information on it, and I still did not get it done after 5-7 hours. The wiring was so flimsy that it broke. Trying to figure out the color code was crazy. If you can help me out, let me know, I would appreciate it. Thanks love your videos, Al.
Thanks Al. I came to this conclusion as well in my Stingray mod series. The SD wiring was just so flimsy. I haven't used a Seymour Duncan product since. Join our discord channel, we've built a really helpful and great community that could definitely help you out.
This is what I did, I used the seymour ducan pickup (SMB-4A) and didn't use the STC-2A EQ Preamp. I must say, what a difference. Love it. Until next time, and thank you. Later.
Great sound! The one weird thing that got my attention was when you said it had a basswood body. When the hell did they switch woods? I have a SUB4, and 5, both mahogany. Absolute tanks, and have to use padded straps. Base models, no upgrades.
Great question! Does your headstock have "SUB" in big letters? I think the first gen ones were mahogany, and they switched over to basswood for price. The Ray24CA has the mahogany body now, and then the Ray34 is either Mahogany or Ash depending on the finish. I'm curious to try a 1st gen import SUB (not to be confused with the USA ones from 10-15 years ago) to see the difference in electronics. The current gen SUB pickup sucks IMO, way too hot.
@@LowEndLobster Nope they do not have the big block letters. I guess luckily for me I received the ones right before the change over to basswood. I have both a Glarry J, and P bass, so I know what basswood feels like. The electronics in my sub's aren't the greatest but they work for what I do. I play through a Peavey Max 208 connected to a Zoom B1 4 pedal. I can pretty much dial in any tone I want. All in all I'm very happy.
@@vonpipes26 Interesting... hrm... I'm VERY curious about this changeover and when it happened. When did you get yours roughly? Gonna try and do some digging and get more info!
I built this pickup and preamp into one of my Fleabasses Model 32 back in the day (I bought 3 of them when they were discontinued for only 199€ a piece!) - had to do some modifications to the pickguard and the body, but it was worth it, very solid unit.
Hey, it has a good tiny tone. I have one, with the stock p/u, and don't dig it so much . No comparison to the yellow. It's like a kids bass compared to the adult version. Thanks
Thanks lobster. Just ordered my first SUB bass and also ordered the SD smb-4a pickup aswell. Stupid question but will that pickup work with the EMG pre-amp and will it sound as good as this combo? Cheers
Happy modding! The pickup will work with an EMG preamp. You can even solder up some of the EMG connectors to make it plug and play. Just make sure you use the passive 250k vol instead of the active 25k vol! Hope that helps!
Would you suggest the same mod for a sterling stingray short scale bass. I would assume the tonal characteristics would be very close if not the same? Great video. Thanks
You would need to route a battery box as the short scale is passive. However, you could absolutely use the pickup to replace the stock pickup without issue.
The comparison: they sound different but I don't know that one is better than the other. Seems like you could tweak the settings and make one sound like the other if you wanted.
@@rmccain99 I had a EMG MM in my ESP 30th anniversary model Surveyor and a EMG soap bar....and MAYBE it was the preamp that was in it ..BUT it was thin sounding to me ??????...i have others with EMG stuff in them and LOVE those but just not the MM p/ u for whatever reason
Oh boy this sound is crazy af. Crustacean id like you to do a video for people that might like to give out used bass he/she ain't using. It's gonna do a lot of good to people like me that got none. Btw I'm looking forward to your next giveaway
I like Duncan pickup and electronics better than MMs. To me, it sounds more open. I think MM is putting one capacitor at the input that little bit tame those highs. Which is not bad. I think they come up with that with 3 band eq era or something. Oldschool stingray sounded more open.
Thanks Bro! I actually just snagged a 'Ray Classic recently, will be doing a comparison between the oldschool 2 band and the modern era 9v 3-band (not the 18v, too different)
@@LowEndLobster if you dial in the sound I think you could make it sound alot more like the usa stingray. That stingray sounds like it has alot more mids compared to the much brighter sub.
@@nathanchalcraft6919 I agree! Not a lot of clear documentation on the actual function of the trim pots, it'll take some messin' with but we'll get to the bottom of this and get that slap mode sound fine tuned :)
Do you know if this pick up can be used for a passive bass? I got an OLP MM2 for $100 ans it sounds pretty good with the stock pick up because it still has that Stingray growl. I'm thinking of upgrading down the road to a better pick up. This OLP is set up like a jazz bass because it has 2 volumes and 1 tone, so it's a humbucker but it can bw split in half
Just the video I need! I’m looking to upgrade my Ray24CA, but truth be told I don’t think it really needs an upgrade on anything, including the tuners. I do fancy the tone of alnico humbuckers more than ceramic. I’m looking into the Nordstrand MM pickup and this Duncan preamp because of the mid knob. Great stuff as always!
Thanks Jaxon! I have a Ray24 coming in sometime in the next week or so. Excited to see how it compares to both the stock SUB, SD SUB, and my '17 Ray and Ray classic.. Going to throw the classic in the mix to make it 2 band vs 2 band!
Listened to the comparison thru AT-M50 headphones and the 2017 Stingray had by far the best sound. Not a fan of the stingray basses overall anyway but I just love your mods and listening to the different basses. I would love to see you review a Warwick thumb BO.
I did not, but you can check out the original mint-o-ray vids to hear the stock pickup. I do love this combo, great value, easy to install, sounds great, and comes with knobs (solid ones too).
@@rmccain99 Lol! It's a joke. Meaning: LowEndLobster's USA collection is expanding and he's going to post more USA bass products. (I CAN'T WAIT) Then I just added NU Shooz as a joke because she wrote a song; "I CAN'T WAIT". Basically I can't wait for his postings. Lol! That's all. :D
too much hum with treble up, gotta shield the control cavity , the SD preamp has a problem with the hum, i had the passive 2 band installed on a Squier MB5 and i noticed that i had the same issue till i shielded the control cavity...other than that that's all that i can say about it, sounds awesome, and btw the MM sounded more muffled than the sub... the sub is clearer and well pronounced with that sdmm p/up.
Question... I'm gonna purchase the Seymour Duncan Alnico pickup would I need to get the STC-3M3 to get a great sound? Also, is that Alnico pickup passive or active? Thanks
Hey Russ! Great questions. The pickup upgrade IMO would make the most significant impact - check out the vid I did with the Aguilar pickup and stock preamp. The pickup is passive, preamps are the active component in stingrays. Hope that helps!
Sorry for my ignorance, but can you please tell me the specific Seymour Duncan Alnico to fit my Sterling by Music Man Stingray Ray4 SUB series? 3 knobs of course. Went to Guitar Center and Sam Ash websites and they had multiple ones I want to make sure I get the first order right.
to be honest , for a slap tone , I prefer the SUB bass , ceramic always sounds clearer to me and , alnico kind of sounds like it's under water un the new stingrays
We're going to compare the stock Ray24 to this. The Ray24 already has upgraded guts compared to the SUB, wouldn't make much sense to do it here as the only difference would be body material.
Music Man has a stronger mid tone punch. It sounds like the strings have more tension (well, I know it's not true but I want to describe the difference). Waiting to hear other competitors. I guess none of them would beat Music Man in terms of attacks because I think it's in the construction of the bass itself.
Thank you! This will indeed be interesting! I just setup the Nordstrand SUB, and am waiting on the Aggie preamp (pickup is already installed). I decided to expand the scope of the project a little bit so we'll be looking at EMG and Bartolini 3 bands and associated pickups as well! More to come!
@@LowEndLobster Please also consider replacing the stock preamp of your MM to compare tonal difference and adjustability against those competitors. It will take you a day or two so I know that's not an easy job, but you already have everything you need to do it at that point. I think many players would like to hear the expectable tones to help them decide the right character for them. (I won't say "upgrade the tone" because the stock preamp is already great, but it's possible that we might want to switch them to obtain a more preferable style to one's taste). Thank you in advance.
@@PJSOFT That's what all the SUB swaps are for ;P. We'll be exploring the EMG, Aguilar, Nordstrand, Bartolini and Seymour Duncan 3 band and classic ray pickup offerings as well as the John East preamp and... Minty will be present (Darkglass preamp and delano pickup)
I had this bass. Loved the way it played, but hated the pickup. I could see this pickup fixing that issue, but as you stated early, you are creeping on the cost of a higher end Sub at that point.
Indeed! I've had several and that's been consistent. Great playability, terrible pickup. I do enjoy modding these though, and the final result is usually quite nice as well :)
