We’re converting our 3/8 and.404 chains to hex because of the performance and how easy it is to sharpen compared to square. The square is awesome cutting, round is easy to file, and hex is the perfect combination of the two. We have even tried hex on some semi chisel chain just to see what happens. We noticed a slight improvement in cutting speed, the chips were bigger and cleared better. It wasn’t much of a gain but kinda neat to see. lol I even tried hex on some 3/8lp chain and couldn’t really get it to work but I’m going mess around with it a bit more before I give up.
@PurpleNovember Nope, I played around with it a little longer after this video and then hung the chain uo in the shop and it still hangs there today. Seemed like a lot of extra cost for not enough extra benefit. I also found the chain fairly difficult to sharpen after it had a few sharpens on it.
@@zaccheus Interesting. I never tried the actual HEXA chain but converted several over to hex. The hex has been a great fit for us, we have a H47 and 33RSLF chain that’s on the last filling and it has been fine. I think I’ll stick to converting chain instead of trying the actual HEXA chain, maybe that’s why it has been working for us. lol
dang, you reminded me I gotta go sharpen a bunch of chains, all of mine are dull, also gotta organize them since im tired of finding random chains where they never should be for hardwood ive tried some 25 degree grinds with the oregon grinder, seems to do good, machine ground is way better than my hand file, occasionally tho I will get the itch to square file a chain and I LOVE running it once I get a good one, I just gotta get a square grinder
The semi chisel Pico seems to work better than the full chisel Pico. Don't know why definitely need a skinny bar. Stock square ground chains usually need to be gone over by somebody. That's good with the square file. Rakers are like garlic. A little bit goes a long way.
I enjoyed this video as well as all of your videos. I have wondered how much difference it makes using different types of chains. At first, I saw a rabbit in the log slices, but later, I decided it was a quacking duck.
I'm glad to hear that Darrell! Haha, I was too focused on the video the whole day to even notice the figure in the pieces. I have to go back out and look at them.
Hey nice job here. I'll also say, I'm in agreement with the crowd that appriciates "stays sharp longer" over "makes 4 fast cuts, then quickly gets miserable to use." If you invent a system that sharpens chain AS the saw cuts, you'll be a wealthy man! Anyhow, I enjoyed the video and wanted to show my support.
Nice comparison. I saw you over there on the channel you did this work on, and you seem like a cool dude. Subscribed. Can't believe you carry that excavator in the back of a truck 😂😵💫
Good vid. I'm thinking you are right on bar width with that picco chain. I have a modified 2511t with a carving chain and bar that cuts beautifully. You might have had different results with a slimmer bar but I doubt at that length on exists. Can't recall but did you run skip or full comp here? Skip would pull faster in thicker diameter hardwood. I'm still on the sidelines with square ground. Seeing varying results with speed on YT with square and because it's sharper it dulls faster which unless you're competition cutting its value fall off for production work if it can't stay sharp in my eyes.
I'm not a huge fan of square ground chain either. If it's something a person is excited and ambitious about and doesn't mind sharpening everyday, it probably works pretty well. I'm not thay guy. I don't think I represent it super well here because it didn't cut real fast, but I got some files and I'm going to give it a shot. This was all full comp chain. The only thing I use a skip chain on it a 36" bar because it's just a smidge big for the 500i. This was a 25" bar and if I could find a thinner bar, I'd be really tempted to run 3/8 picco all the time. Maybe I should see if I can find someone to make one for me...
Haha, you're here for the cat aren't you 😂 Shawn encouraged me to kind open up the focus of my channel to include those kinds if things so I think more of that will be making its way to the channel.
Cool test. If you have some round filed chains, bring them with you when you come up. I can run them through my Oregon sharpener or hand file if they aren't too bad.
I have just bought some Hexa chains this week, I like it we have had it quite a while in the UK now but I think the price being almost double is putting people off buying it $48 for 72 links!
Whoa, double is definitely too much! I think mine were a few dollars more than the price of regular full chisel. Double would definitely be off putting
Fair thought. That hexa chain was working just fine for me right up to the end, but if longevity is your primary concern, semi chisel chain is probably the way to go
I'll send you a picture next time I'm out in the garage. It's not exactly what I was expecting to see after having seen everyone else's videos on square ground chain. I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.
So nephew, I'm thinking, like many others, 1 sec delta isn't much and I'd suggest that using a saw that size over the course of a year, less than an hour saved would be gained. But, the changing out of chains could eat that up quick, which leads me to the question of which one wears better? Oh, and try to by pass that cutting of iron in the test....
Haha, that's some insightful thinking. As far as I know, semi chisel chain has the longest lasting cutting edge. I didn't have one of those in the mix, but probably should have for reasons you've mentioned. Semi chisel chain is known for cutting slower and lasting longer, but does it only last longer because it cuts slower? 😂
@@zaccheus I think its pretty much the best straight out of the box but it has a weird grind that is not duplicatable. But easy to go round or square after. Stihl RS chain is good too. Cheers
@@zaccheus if they are durable and comfortable warm for winter or too hot for summer can you wash them and just your thoughts on that brand of pants I am an arborist as well, and have been thinking about getting a pair but I’m still a bit hesitant to make the investment and would just like to know your experience with them
I have noticed that certain woods at the bottom of the log leave stringy fibers after the cut fact. Must be because the wood fiber types I would think. But there are a lot of variables on cut finish. What you said about worker retention in the lumberjack profession is terrible. Few guy retire from this field of work. Must be the "Tender Vittles Syndrome." and laziness of the workers today. Many tree guys today are spanish speakers that I see in PA area. When it comes to chains and speed personal preference seems to win out as one man loves this while another man loves that. Seem to me all the new fast chains just do not hold up in cutting time. I have found that Semi-Chisel Oragen type used years ago, still have a spool of 100 foot works the best for me. Not made any more, but the hardness of the teeth is real hard, you will wear out a file in one sharpening of a 24 inch bar, with 404 pitch. I have tried any chain that comes on the market with disappointment. They will say anything to sell a new product. But long life cutting just does not happen, Period. Nice honest video, You did not mention the saw model and bar length, or I missed it.
Very interesting theory on the fiber finish on the cut. I think you wrote a lot of truth in that comment. I think there is maybe even a little placebo effect with youtube videos putting suggestions in people's minds. Thank you for you comment
0@@zaccheus I can tell you that I make a lot of woodworking projects. I buy the best carbide tipped blades with ultra positive rake and diamond polished teeth. The saw blade is teflon treated running on precision bearings checked with a dial indicator with "0" runout. Still some wood pieces have a fuzzy finish. The only cure is to run the wood through a plane. Either electric or hand tool. I guess sometimes one cannot win. Peace vf
Zack, You seem like a very experienced young man who has his head planted firmly on his shoulders. You are VERY well spoken. (I really appreciate that you don't go 'uh' every other word. Uh That uh just uh drives me uh CRAZY) 🤠 If you don't already, you might check out Buckin' Billy Ray's channel. He is an old logger in British Columbia, (I think). He has a lot of videos about filing chains and several specifically about square chain. He also has a new 500i that he had some guys in PA, (Rip Saw), do some work on and he seems to be impressed. Here is one of his square file videos. Maybe it can be of some help.
Thanks John! I have to say that I definitely have had to work to keep the "uhs" out if my videos, it's taken some practice and some editing, but I hate listening to it to 😅 I didn't know rip saw was that close! Being in PA, it sounds like they might be close enough to go visit on some rainy day! Thanks for sharing that information!
I don't really know, I haven't timed them both ti see the difference. My stihl dealer believes they are the same, they sell them at the same price 🤷♂️
It’s different, we use both and the price of Oregon chain is better but the durability of Sthil is better in our cutting conditions (very nasty, sandy and hard oak full of dirt and sand). So far for us the Stihl chain has been better but I would prefer to run Oregon chain because of the cost and the disaster support they provide when storms go through. If we were cutting in normal conditions we would just run Oregon and Carlton chain.
I got mine at a local dealer, Akron Tractor. I had to call around to a couple dealers to find it not everyone had it. If you get some, but sure to get some files for it too!
@@zaccheus yeah I've been looking for it for a while now I can't seem to find any. I'm going to call my Stihl dealer tomorrow by my house and see if they have it thank you buddy
I have heard of hogging a chain and I think that is what is happening there so I always let the chain do the work and don't force it or per say hogging it
Are there any particular cuts you're referencing? A nicely tuned chain should feed itself into the log when the dogs are engaged in the log. I did not use that approach in an effort to keep things as consistent as possible.
@Zaccheus in the viedo it looked to me like you was forcing the saw threw the wood but it is just what I was seeing by the way your stance holding it while it was cutting if I'm wrong I'm sorry it is just what it looked like to me
@James Swanson I am applying pressure. A lot depends on what kind of wood you're cutting and how you have your chain set up. If you run the rakers low enough, you can typically cut pretty quickly without applying any pressure at all and the saw will feed itself through the wood. However, in my experience rakes that low typically do not make angled cuts very well at all because they tend to grab the wood fibers rather than cut them. You can run the saw with regular .025" rakers and not apply pressure, but I don't think it will be faster than when you are applying pressure.
I wondered that too. Which forced me to wonder if technique, wood consistency, saw consistency, and a bunch of the other variables make the small differences in chain cutting speed moot 🤷♂️
Stihl MS500i it's been a really good all around saw for me. I use it in the tree, on the ground and it'll even pull a 36" bar with a skip chain if I need it to.
@@zaccheusOur 500i is our .404 set up with 36” full skip square, hex , or semi chisel hex. It does cut slower at first but there’s plenty of power and the chain stays sharp a lot longer than 3/8. Nasty cutting conditions!!!
@@PurpleNovember Very interesting! What species are you cutting? My 500i acts like it doesn't want anything more than 36" 3/8 0.50 full house. I normally run skip on it when I have a bar that big on there.
@@zaccheus Hybrid and mix spices of oak and pine We also run a 42” 3/8 for milling and a few cross cuts. Our 500 has a WCS bark box and it also has an oil foam air filter. We noticed significant improvement in power opening up the intake and exhaust.
I run .050 on everything. What angle do you grind at. I was rather disappointed in this square ground chain and I think the edge angle might play a big part in it.
@@zaccheus definitely take him up on this. Square ground chain doesn’t cut worth a damn out of the box. (And yes… round file DOES pick up a bit of speed if you give it a very experienced hand fileing job. The cutters have been banging into each other in a box when shipped.)
@MemphisMechanic Why doesn't it cut good out of the box though? I imagine that if multi-million dollar companies like Stihl and Oregon were competing to make the best cutting chain possible, they would probably be better at it than me. If their packaging method really harmed their chains, they would choose another way to package them. Is there some different square grind angles that make the chain perform better in hardwoods?
@@zaccheus Very good thoughts on why it doesn’t make sense to be able to have a chain sharper than factory. My theory has been this: it comes down to mass production. I have currently purchased square ground chain from Oregon and the quality hasn’t been good from the factory. Some teeth were ground down more than others and on I’d say most of the teeth they overshot the corner. I think especially with square ground with sooo many angles at play it’s hard for a mass producing factory to get it perfect. Round ground chain is different however, in that stihl round chain from the factory is a different profile than than what you can get with the file, they always make the hook near the top more very aggressive, so that’s why I think it’s hard to replicate. To go into the specifics of why a square ground chain doesn’t cut good from the factory is hard to explain through text but I’ll try. So firstly that outside top plate angle that you mentioned looked shallower than the other teeth is actually the correct angle, for whatever reason square chain cuts best with a 15-20 degree angle vs 30-35 with round chain. The main differences come from the outside side plate angle, factory chain seems to be right at 90°, whereas it’s best to shoot for 83-85° which leans the tooth forward a little bit. The inside top plate angle on factory chain is usually a bit more blunt, I end up making that more aggressive. A great resource for filing/grinding is the Madsens Shop and Supply website, linked here: www.madsens1.com/copy-of-sharpening-maintaining-squa They also have a ton of other informational pages on their site, I’d highly recommend checking them out. Guilty of Treeson’s videos both on hand filing square and grinding square are also a great resource. Quick thoughts on the durability of square ground: it holds up plenty good! I can fell and buck dead ash into firewood here in Wisconsin all day and as long as I keep it out of the dirt it stays razor sharp. I hope this was somewhat helpful and wasn’t too incoherent!
@Paul J Thanks for taking the time to write that stuff out! I am familiar with Jacob's videos in the matter and that it's why I was a little disappointed when the square chain wasn't faster than the regular full chisel.
